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View Full Version : Adding M2 .50 to maps


Keiichi
10th Apr 2000, 10:46 PM
I know next to nothing about mapping, but I really want to add the M2 to some of my favorite maps. Can anyone tell me exactly how to replace a standard turret with the M2 .50? I know there are some people who would be willing to do this for me, but I'd really like to learn how to do this for myself.

-Keiichi

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If the past is an idea that can only occur in the here-and-now, and the future is also just a concept happening strictly in the present, is there really a past and future? Or just a continuum of present moments?

bastard_o
11th Apr 2000, 06:33 PM
Are you aware of these guidelines about modifing levels !

I believe this to be true...

If the levels are your own, no problems you own the intellectual copyright.

If the levels are not yours then it is considered polite to ask the authors permission to modify them, and you MUST most definately ask if you intend to distribute the level to anybody else.

I hope this is clear...

The readme files which come with all levels which in my view should be mandatory, the author may have stated in advance within said "readme file" that their creation can be modified and redistributed.

But I believe that the above to be very rare indeed.

So to recap, you must ask a level authors permission to modify their levels.

Ok with that out of the way, please read the supplied how to add the m2 0.50 mesh readme file that comes with the mod.

I will be constructing a step-by-step tut very very soon.. with three methods of using the m2 mesh within your levels.

Bastard'O

Evil Joe
13th Apr 2000, 01:44 AM
If you don't redistribute them you can pretty much do whatever you want to them. Mappers are so testy but what they don't realize is that the law won't back them up much. Fist of all mappers really can't go commercial with their maps cause Epic owns all the rights to unreal, unreal tourney, and both editors *G*. Say what you want (and it is polite and proper form to give mappers credit, especially if you intend to redistribute the maps) but the mappers have very little legal rights to their work.

hunchback
13th Apr 2000, 06:58 AM
Oh boy, here we go again... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As usual, I am not a lawyer, but here's my understanding of copyright law in regards to mapping (I post this not to start a flamewar, but because I think that this is an important topic for anyone publically distributing material that they've created):

You can do whatever you want with someone else's level, as long as the modified version doesn't get _publically_ distributed. Other than that, I think that pretty much everything that bastard_o said was right. It's my understanding that Unreal levels don't contain any textures themselves (except for custom ones that are in the MyLevel pack). Therefore, there shouldn't be any Epic-copyrighted data in an Unreal level, so I'd think that you, as a mapper, would be able to retain all rights to the work. Think about it this way: Does Adobe hold any rights to images created with Photoshop? Did Epic have to pay Kinetix royalty fees for Unreal since they used 3D Studio to render the models?

Of course, I could be way off base here. If so, just post a link to a legal document showing why. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Evil Joe
13th Apr 2000, 01:49 PM
No because when you buy 3dstudio Maxx you also buy the right to use it. Hunchback your understanding of copyright laws isn't exactly the way it is.

I could take anybodies level do anything to it and as long as I'm not selling it post it up on the web. This is why people can totally rip off bond levels and what not and mass distribute them. Also with the bond levels another reason it is legal is becuase the ripped levels aren't on the same engine. Mappers have NO copyright protection and just putting no permission doesn't mean anything. If that was the case I don't give anyone any permission to take my SF levels and convert them for any other mods but you know what? Legally I can't do a damn thing. Epic has all the copyrights to the unreal engine and its editor... without going through them you CANNOT legally make a mod or map and then sell it. But it can be distributed for free. Me and you had sort of a "heated" argument about this before. I'm telling you this is how it works my friend.

On a side note there is a sort of honor system on the net that everyone is at least indirectly aware of. Since most mappers post there stuff and because of review sites most of the time poeple readily know who originated the good maps out there. T. Ahlen, Wolf, Salvation, Faceless, Bastard'O, etc. Everyone knows their maps. So it would be hard to get away with claiming you did their maps... etc. Posting you did it first in a text file is about the only thing you can do to ensure poeple know it was you and not joe blow who made the map.

hunchback
13th Apr 2000, 06:51 PM
Like I said in my previous post, if you have a link to a legal document backing up anything that you're saying, feel free to go ahead and post it; otherwise, this discussion isn't going to go anywhere...

Proving that you created a map would be trivial as long as you made and kept incremental saves of the level through the construction process.

Keiichi
14th Apr 2000, 04:20 AM
I'm not trying to claim that I made any of the levels I want to alter, I just want to replace the turrets in AS-Terrain and CTF-Them with the M2. I wouldn't distribute them to anyone, and I certainly wouldn't post them on the net. It would be for my own personal enjoyment, and nothing else. I'm sorry if anyone thought otherwise.

-Keiichi

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If the past is an idea that can only occur in the here-and-now, and the future is also just a concept happening strictly in the present, is there really a past and future? Or just a continuum of present moments?

Evil Joe
16th Apr 2000, 06:06 PM
The more I think about this hunchback the more I realize how valuable our discussion is to all mappers out there. Ok here is my take on the us copyright laws (http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/). Maps would most likely fall under graphical representations or architectural designs. Although I now that I think about it editor doesn't give you anything more then maybe a conceptual design. And you can't copyright concepts. It would have to be a blueprint which editor does not really provide you with.

Now since it is a graphical design (listen up texuture artist) all you have to do is change a texture or graphic slightly and guess what its a different graphic (texture) and is legal. Maps falling under graphical designs would fall under the same types of rules. Therefor you change it slightly and guess what its a new graphic and not protected.

Hunchback was correct over (I thought this only worked for books, designs, inventions, music etc. But as soon as you do it (the map) its copyrighted but it would be a graphical design. And well those are easy to change slightly and call something else. Hope this helps and i'll look into it better. Maybe a site (possilby realmaps or whatever or realworld) could post a little of the info for all.

hunchback
16th Apr 2000, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the reply and the link! I agree with most of what you said. A couple of points, though:

I think that by "concepts" the office just means ideas (like that "one-click purchasing" bull**** that Amazon holds a patent on). I agree that levels would fall into both the "architectural works" and "pictoral, graphic, and sculptural works" catagories. As such, they'd be protected. Why do you say that the editor doesn't provide you with a blueprint? Export a level and look at the file -- it's a list of all of the brushes that you placed, giving exact instructions how to construct the level.

Your level will still be protected if someone modifies it, as well -- remember, copyrights also protect "derivative works". I think that things change if someone builds a map that's similar to yours, with a couple of changes, from scratch. In that case, it would be up to the court to determine if it was "different enough" to qualify as a new work and not a copy.

There have been a couple of incidents related to this over the last few years (Actura Software's CD with user-made Quake levels, the company that sold a CD with user-made Duke3D levels, Quake: Generations, the Wolfenstein 3D mod for Unreal, etc.). Unfortunately, I can't remember reading much about the results. I think that in the case of both of the mods, the creators just backed down before the company could try to file a suit against them.

I doubt many people would file a lawsuit if someone tried to take credit or redestribute one of their maps -- I know I wouldn't; it's just not worth it. I _would_ do just about everything in my power to make the other guy's life a living hell, though. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bastard_o
16th Apr 2000, 10:03 PM
Sounds like justice to me hunchback... lol, Excellent stuff guys....

A very interesting topic, how can I follow that...

Level Properties_LevelInfo_Author.... change that and a special Infiltration LevelInfo class mutator kicks in and a frag grenade will materialize... 3 seconds to vacant your bedroom. lol....

Bastard'O

hunchback
18th Apr 2000, 05:49 AM
There's an interesting article about the way that copyright law relates to game development at http://www.gamasutra.com/features/business_and_legal/080197/myth_and_facts.htm .

Evil Joe
18th Apr 2000, 01:54 PM
True true, very good points there.

The reason I say that editor doesn't make a blueprint was becuase I was refering to a blueprint as something you could take print out and use to accurately build a structure. Like blueprints of a house. Stuff like that which you can do in CAD, microstation etc. I believe that is what they meant by blueprint. Editor doesn't really give you anything you can use to build a real structure with. Definately not to a grand scale anways. The measurements are unclear as how they relate to real world units and to be frank its not designed to do that. That was my point there. That is why I belive it falls under more of a graphical design. Since editor produces 3d graphical representations.

Very true you can't really claim copyright to a concept for a map... ex: "I had the first idea for a castle map!!!" etc.

Now if you built a map from scratch such as the reproduced bond levels I totally believe that (based on the info in that link) that it would be legal to do so. Since you aren't selling these levels (I don't think anyone could legally) I don't believe the law would get involved. So basically you could do whatever the hell you want, BUT like you said hunchback, I believe the whole community would give them hell /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif. Mappers union baby!!! er... ok...

bonorye
25th Apr 2000, 09:57 PM
ok, i understand the copyright thing on maps. But as for me making my maps(which I am attempting here again), I can't seem to make the M2.50 turret active when I play the map and touch it. What properties do I set to make the gun work on my map? thanks

bastard_o
26th Apr 2000, 02:06 AM
Did you read the readme...

For a mormal m2 placement... !

Just add a normal trigger, sets its Events_Event to be the name tag of the M2..

ie.

Triggers_Events_Event = M2_A
M2's Events_Tag = M2_A

Set any collision radius.. and you're there.

Bastard'O

bonorye
26th Apr 2000, 04:17 AM
did exactly what u told me with the names on the tags of the trigger and the M2 and it still does the same thing. I read the ReadMe file and it says the same thing you said. For some reason, its not going, "You now control the M2!" like it should and giving me control of the gun. When I touch it, it still just stays dead not even aiming. What's happenin' here?

das_ben
26th Apr 2000, 05:09 PM
look on infiltration maps which have the m2 already included... and then look how it's done... i learned it that way easier.. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-reaper was here-