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WhackZero
4th Nov 2000, 10:38 AM
i'm jus wonderin... is the radar going to be enabled on net play?

Aradiel
5th Nov 2000, 04:07 AM
The real fun is finding out the others, hunting them... or on the other hand not knowing that one of them is sneaking around you to send you in after-life. Another point against Radar online: it's more fun when you are in real deep s..t to have to look for your surviving buddies dor support rather than just have a look at the radar and head in their direction.

My 2 cents...

shan
5th Nov 2000, 05:14 AM
<font color="#F9C700">Radar will be a server option. It will be up to server adaministrators to decide whether they want players to be able to use radar or not.

As for SG Servers, our servers will not allow radar.

Shan

<font color="#F9C700">Quit playing with yourself...come play with us.
Infiltration 2.8 Servers On-line soon.


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Uisge
7th Nov 2000, 10:49 PM
Without the radar on-line you're going to get those long drawn out boring periods where the last survivor of one team hides. I say keep it.

Uisge
7th Nov 2000, 10:52 PM
OK, ok; I forgot there for a minute about the last player countdown thing... Even so, the radar will make sure games have a proper result. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

shan
8th Nov 2000, 09:43 PM
Radar allows people to run around the map without using tactics, because they know when they are near others.

The last player countdown will be set to 90 seconds on our servers, so drawn-out one-on-one games will not be a problem.

We have experienced the kind of playing that Radar promotes and did not like it. We prefer to promote fun, tactical games rather than fragfests and radar does not lend itself to that, so we will not have it. We may end up setting up a newbee server, however, and that server would have dumbed-down settings, including radar enabled.

Shan



<font color="#F9C700"><FONT SIZE=3>------------------------------------------------
Quit playing with yourself...come play with us.</font>
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Uisge
9th Nov 2000, 03:58 AM
I don't agree. Using the radar (both sides have it) still demands tactics. Without it, a lot of games are going to be camper-fests, particularly on the larger maps.

TimTim
11th Nov 2000, 10:58 AM
I agree that radars promote lack of awareness in the players, if you don't know who's around you, you'll be looking around a lot... which is realistic.

shan
13th Nov 2000, 09:45 AM
While I 100% respect your opinion and you right to have one, I again must dissagree. I can tell you from experience that radar makes a huge difference in tactics. I watched hours of gameply (at least on our servers) with and without radar on before making a decision. The games were noticably less tactical with Radar on. People could not hide behind items to surprise people as easily. Overall Gameplay is more UT-like with Radar on.

Long, drawn-out games will be taken care of with the last player timer.

Shan



<font color="#F9C700"><FONT SIZE=3>------------------------------------------------
Quit playing with yourself...come play with us.</font>
<a href="http://www.sgservers.com" target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http://www.sgservers.com/images/title_sm2.gif"></a>
<font color="#F9C700"><table style=filter:glow(color="RED")>Infiltration 2.8 Servers On-line soon.</a></p></table></font>

WhackZero
22nd Nov 2000, 12:09 PM
i say ferget the radar. its more realistic that way. and if the round does get too long, we can always vote to end the round, right?

thornz
28th Nov 2000, 03:28 PM
my problem is, and still will always be, the conflict that emerges from "campers" when playing infiltration. Strategy is inherent in this, which means not running out into the open. With that kind of mentality, there isnt such a thing as a camper, because staying put and hidden is part of it. Now, there is also the traditional camper mentality that, hey, I'm not going to move because I'll just get shot by a sniper I can't even see. This is a problem I had with 2.75 mostly b/c of unbalanced, WAY to wide open maps. My opinion to you, SOB man, is don't take any maps like...crud, I can't remember the name of the old map...it's wide open...it had a prison in it, and a guard tower that was WAY too tall. 2 buildings on either side, and for the most part people sat behind the buildings and waited for someone stupid to come out. These problems will be fixed by:
1. not everyone will have a Robar
2. you can do what I did, only more effectively now that grenades work a little better and running has been tweaked: run around the edges where they can't see you, and just start chucking grenades
3. leaning will help combat this, so you can check out whats around a corner
4. we have better maps now! (don't get me wrong, I liked the map. just not online. it was like 2 buildings shooting at one another, but being inside the building never provided too good of cover, so you just went behind it)

I think that Radar should never be a question, it should always be off. Having it kind of defeats the purpose.

WhackZero
29th Nov 2000, 11:47 AM
:D

Dobbs
10th Jan 2001, 05:46 PM
I think the main point here is that radar is unrealistic. Maybe heat sensing goggles that greatly distorted all other views - maybe...

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Commoner
16th Jan 2001, 02:28 PM
Well, again, I think this all becomes an issue of realism vs. Gameplay. I personally agree that it should simply be up to the Server Operator to set whether the Radar should be on or not. I also think they should be able to set the Radar to only show allies or to show both enemies and allies (and maybe only enemies). An option that will only give it to one team would be cool too.

There are many reasons for this. First of all, it's not completely true to say that Radars are completely unrealistic. The US government has had technology using Satellites to give updates on where people are located for years. Proper prepartion with cameras and such make it possible as well. Sure to the infantry unit, this will not appear on a Radar but they may know in general where hostile forces are located because of these technologies. The representation for this may simply be in the radar.

Second, it's really dependent on the map whether a radar would end up messing up gameplay or improving it. For maps with lots of open areas for instance, snipers would be too good if there were no radars to give you some idea of where to point that grenade launcher at. In maps with nothing but small confined areas, however, it could easily ruin the game, encouraging people to chuck grenades into the small rooms or corridors when he sees a group of little dots in his radar.

Thirdly, having flexible options for Radar will allow map makers to set-up interesting scenarios such as, one team has a strategic advantage with nice cover, etc., but the other team has better information base (in the form of being able to see where the opposing team is on their radar).

Fourthly, the issue of whether a radar will improve gameplay or deteriorate it will also depend on the type of players that frequents the servers. If half of them are campers and alot of the players tend to go idle, it would be very frustrating if there were no radars as people end up playing a waiting game quite often. If, however, most people are considerate enough to look for each other to minimize the amount of time people spend waiting when there are only a few players left, Radars will not be necessary.

Here's something on my personal wish list though. The radars should be adjustable on the server to show enemy units for 1 second only every set number of seconds, after which the radar will go blank until the next 1 second. So for instance, the Server might be able to set it so that after 10 seconds, the radar will activate, show where everybody is, then go blank. After the next 10 seconds, people will see where everybody is again.

This in my opinion would be very cool. It would make it so that it would be easy to spot campers (and idle players), but not people who are constantly moving around. By making the time adjustable, people could set it to suit certain maps.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in terms of the Radar, it should be customizable as possible to allow the administrator to decide what is good for his server and what is not. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. However, in certain situations one may end up outweighing the other in which case being able to set the radar settings would be a God send.

Anrky
17th Jan 2001, 01:22 PM
I guess i would agree onthe same point. Radar would be better if it had more options.

Right now our experience with radar is with a completly different game almost. Pick-up wepons will be history. Everybody will have different loadouts. I think the decision for Radar or not will be mostly determined after serveral weeks of play in 2.85. Radar doesn't not promote "No Skill" matches. the best players use it to it's fullest and create tactics to complement it.

Radar just creates a different type of skill.

[This message was edited by Anrky on Jan 18, 2001 at 17:06.]

DaddyBone
18th Jan 2001, 04:51 AM
Heh. This debate will go on for a LOOOOOONG time. Keep these things in mind:

1) INF radar is decently true to life; it is not just a 'cheat', it does not work through things like mountains, walls, buildings, etc. So its not an end all be all answer to 'where the enemy is'

2) There are several instances where radar, IMHO, is justified. If you have a 300 ping, and they all have 100, it kinda evens the odds. If there's you against 3 others, it does the same. The sticky part is evening the odds the other way 'round, getting the LPBs and greater numbered team to NOT use radar. An interesting feature for the radar would be to allow the server op to choose at what ping the radar would be operable, or to add static and false signatures in some situations.

I, personally, like the radar for when the last player countdown has started and yer on a large but not too open map. I don't use it in any other situations as long as my ping is good and the teams are closely balanced, but I do like the choice. There will definately be people who take advantage of it, tho. I really prefer the good feeling I get from the skill of a quick surprise and drop, but... :)

- DaddyBone

Online Consultant for the Infiltration Team
http://www.SOBServers.com
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