real combat

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Curly

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Combat in INF to me doesn't seem very realistic. Ppl say it’s because shooting while strafing and running is too accurate. Ppl run around shooting, and kill quickly. Unlike RL where solders take cover, have long intense fire fights and use pinning and flanking tactics. I think the reason is because people don’t care about there lives that much. IRL your first priority is to survive. If you are out numbered u retreat. In INF you would rather get 3 kills and die than live with no kills. I’ve never been under real fire before, but I do play paint ball. I remember the first time I played paint ball I was very scared of getting hit, it can really hurt. So once someone shot at me I hid in a bunker while ocationaly peeking out and firing a few random shots at where i thought the fire was coming from. This is what a solders would do IRL. U could strafe, keep ur sites on him, and unleash burst after burst and have a better chance of killing him, but also having a better chance of dying, but who cares you will just repsawn in the next round. If you do take cover the other guy wont care about his life and come running at you while your head is down killing you quickly. Another problem is running is way to fast. If you time it you'll see its faster then u could even hope to run. If ppl were slowed down they would be easier to hit while running and strafing. And also In paint ball u are able to hug your cover just the right way to revel just an inch or two of your head to the enemy while being able to shoot back. Same is true IRF combat. In INF u have three modes, stand, crouch, and prone. to shoot back from your cover u have to show at least ur entire head, usually your chest too. Making it too easy to kill you while ur in cover. U just cant get enough control over your body from a mouse and keyboard. Here are the ways I think these problems can be fixed.

1) The will to survive. U need to battle for an objective instead of complete enemy death. If u die, that's it, game over. In MP u would get banned from the server for a while. If you are overwhelmed and about to die, u retreat or surrender. Then they take the objective. This way everyone on one team wont have to die. They can retreat to a different objective, regroup and try to retake the objective and free there surrendered team mates. This would go on until all the objectives are taken. This is how real war works. U don't completely destroy your opponent that's not your goal. Unless u play an unrealistic gladiator death match.

2) Slow the players down to realistic running and walking speeds.

3) Shooting back from cover. I don't know how to get enough control of ur body from a keyboard and mouse to use cover properly, but maybe someone can come up with something.

I know these changes would be hard to make for INF. And probably never happen considering the team has a whole lot more planned and stuff going on in there real lives. But I don’t think we could get fun realistic fire fights u seen in the movies or real war footage without these changes. What does everyone else think about the combat in INF or any other FPS?
 

St0rmcaller

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Apr 4, 2001
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Combat maneuvering

IRL, movement in combat goes something like this:

Start with this little ditty

I'm up, they see me. I'm down. Knees. Hands. Prone. Cover.
As you say it, you do it, just that long. About 3-4 seconds max.

Translation

I'm up.-- You jump up from your prone position, or cover. Start running while keeping a low profile, hunched over.

They see me--By the time you are saying this, the enemy is drawing a bead on you and preparing to fire.

Knees--Fall to your knees

Hands -- Now, your hands and knees are on the deck (when doing this make sure your hands are balled into a fist, almost like punching the dirt. Sure it hurts but an open hand is an invitation to a sprained wrist or a cut on inside of palm which can severly hamper your ability to return fire)

PRone -- goto prone position, or apply maximum use of cover or concealment. Preferably cover.

Cover -- lay down accurate covering fire, taking note of any enemy exposures ATT. Once you are in postion another will do the same thing. It is a leap frogging cycle.
 

Zundfolge

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Ya know Curly, you're right Inf is not real. It's still a game and ultimately when you're done playing ANY game you're still alive.

I used to think it would be cool to hook all the players up to electrodes that would shock them where they get hit :)

1) The will to survive. U need to battle for an objective instead of complete enemy death.
The INF team is way ahead of you, they are developing EAS (Enhanced Assault) which will be completely objective driven but somewhat more dynamic then regular old UT AS)

2) Slow the players down to realistic running and walking speeds.
The team is constantly tweaking movement...but they have to balance running and walking speed with playability.

3) Shooting back from cover. I don't know how to get enough control of ur body from a keyboard and mouse to use cover properly, but maybe someone can come up with something.
Leaning will be fixed for online play in the next release (any day now). There are limitations of both the Unreal engine and the whole videogame interface to take into consideration.

The INF team is dedicated to creating as realistic a game they can...and frankly they are doing a damn fine job (better then many people who get paid for doing this). As good as it gets, it still won't be real...same problem with paintball or any other war simulation (from boardgame to computergame to fieldgame).
 

Curly

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Thanks for your replies. I know It's not real, but I was just suggesting how it might be even better. Just so u know INF is my favorite FPS and I don't know how to program sh*t. I still find it hard to believe the team will do all this great work for free. Keep up the good work guys.
 

freako

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Mar 17, 2001
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Well it is just a game. I do feel a bigger sense of realism playing INF than any other FPS online. Other than hooking up electrodes to feel the pain of being shot, there is not much that can be done to simulate real life combat. RL combat isn't exactly fun either. Imagine sitting behind some sandbags for 6 weeks while eating army rations and getting rained on. All you have to look forward is combat, which isn't that much fun anyways, pain hurts.

It would be a rush to play a LAN game with all players putting down $100 dollars each, single game winning team takes all. Imagine the fear when you hear footsteps and bullets start flying as snipers get bead on you. That, I believe, is the closest feeling to being in combat as I would like to have.
 

corn

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The best things that can be done is do away with:

1) Jumping, or limit to one jump before you have to rest.

and

2) Slow down the running speed!

The easiest would be to slow the guys down. Rogue Spear has it right. Since online players have the tendency to care less about their virtual lives, Red Storm built it into the game. The soldiers there, do a REALISTIC fast walk on the sides of their feet, as it used in real life tactics for stealth and balance.

Slowing the guys down would automatically create the need to be more careful when you decide to get up and run from point A to B.

corn
 

vincenzo_og

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Apr 2, 2001
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ok....jumping first....no matter how tired u are u could always drag yourself over something waist-high.... how come i can run for miles before i get to the stage where i could not jump anymore where it takes the INF soldiers a couple of hundred meters?....and yes i have tried carrying stuff whilst running.


Why does everyone sya the running speed in INF is way too fast?...because you see on TV the kinda running/trot of soldiers?... i can run faster than they can (im pretty fast) but if u take siberia for instance and from the red spawn run through the computer room.... really sprinting you'd cover that ground in absolutley no time at all...youd clear those steps in one...bee in the corridor in another 3....out the corridor in about 5 (all sprinting)....so no the INF soldiers aren't too fast...the stamina system isn't realistic....it's less than RL!

Also,, in INF when i run my gun bobs around separate from my player...like RL...don't you guys get this or somethin?
 

Mason

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Dec 14, 2000
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There was a thread a while back, by Keiichi(I believe), regarding the walking and running speed. If I remember correctly, the walking speed was a little bit faster than normal while the running speed was faster than the world record for the 100m dash. Vincenzo, you might be 'pretty' fast, but I doubt you run a world record pace....all the while carrying 60lbs. or so of gear. The running speed is indeed too fast. I would also like to see something like Rogue Spear as far as walking and running speeds go.

Jumping, unfortunately, will probably remain a necessity...unless something is put into place where you can use the 'action' key to 'climb' over obstacles.(again, similiar to R6:RS)

As for the gun bob, it would be too difficult to implement a head bob without the gun moving(I think). I personally like the head bob, it eliminates some of the 'uber-accurate' shooting while running 30 mph.
 

Hadmar

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Jan 29, 2001
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Dunno if you mean the same thread I do, but I measured the time in this thread. Please read both of my replys in this thread. Runnung/sprinting speed is not faster then the worldrecord.

And the bobing while running/sprinting should be increased a lot.
 

[L]-Seretonin

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I agree with you lordkhaine- the running speeds are fine, accuracy needs tweaking. I also agree with vincenzo - the jumping needs tweaking too, although we want to avoid people bunny jumping around the level, at the moment it is a litle too unforgiving. When the bulk system is fixed I think that will help, as those walking armouries will not be able to sprint for long, whilst us light weights will be able to run all day :)
 

corn

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You guys are missing the point. I suggest they slow down running speed not because it isn't realistic, but because it would prevent people from going from point A to point B didging bullets.

And yes they can dodge bullets. One reason is because of the internet. The faster they run, the more they warp. They may look like they are at point A, but really they are at point B.

I say keep the accuracy while running the same.

corn
 

Curly

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running speed

I'm not sure what the world records are, but I timed running in INF at the sniper range on the training map. I set the target to 100m away and ran to it in less than ten seconds carring an M16 with 5 clips and 5 nades. That seems too fast to me.
 

Hadmar

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Curly, you did that test on the short range shooting range, right? The scale of it is screwed. I did it on the long range shooting range and it took about 14 sec with only a K-baar.

edit->
I re-read your post... Sniper range? How comes that we have such different time results?????
<-edit
 

RogueRunner

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Shooting through a scope in Inf is still too easy. Especially running while looking through the scope, you spot someone, you stop and can then instantly shoot accuratly at his location. In real life you would 1) not be able to run while looking through the scope and 2) would take a few moments longer to adjust after you stopped and then only shoot accurate at a location. Open sights is about spot on IMO.

Let me just say this, when bullets starts flying in your direction your take cover and stay down until they shoot at someone else. My most unnerving moment was in a contact in Angola attacking a SWAPO training camp. I was lying on my back under a tree and bullets was going past me in a very disconcerning manner hitting the branches of the tree above me and these branches landing on my chest. This was not pleasant :)
 
Last edited:

Curly

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quote:
Curly, you did that test on the short range shooting range, right? The scale of it is screwed. I did it on the long range shooting range and it took about 14 sec with only a K-baar.

edit->
I re-read your post... Sniper range? How comes that we have such different time results?????

Sorry, I timed it incorrectly. I did it again and it took 13.5 seconds. It still seems too fast though.
 

vincenzo_og

teh INFlirtationist
Apr 2, 2001
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i dunno about the scopes thing...i play with a 350 ping and hitiing somethhin wht a scope (from a fair distance) is pretty hard for me...im sure it'll just take a bit practice, but im not really the sniper type......erm...lost my train of thought...... oh well.... isn't it a nice day.
 

Mason

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Dec 14, 2000
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No, I wasn't talking about that thread. Someone, I believe Keiichi, did extensive testing with the running speed on the training map and determined that the Inf soldiers run at, or above, world class speed...that is a bit too fast for soldiers carrying weapons and 40 some odd pounds of equipment. I was mainly casting some skepticism towards vincenzo and his running speed... I still think the running speed is a tad too fast though..
 

Hadmar

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Jan 29, 2001
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OK I post my results again.

100m = 14sec [] 1999 world record = 9,79sec
200m = 33sec [] 1999 world record = 19,32sec
400m = 97sec [] 1999 world record = 43,29sec
400m = 78sec (alternate use of stamina) [] same as above ;)

This is with a Kabar only loadout.

Does anyone still think that the sprinting speed is too fast? Please note that the effect of bulk is tweaked in 2.85.5 (or 2.86?) before you answer.

What where Keiichis results? (If it was him I mean and yes I'm to lazy to serach for them myself now)