A drug for every problem, and a problem for every drug...

[Keiichi]

It took me quite a while to decide whether to use the angry face or the sad face, but I finally decided on the constipated frowny because I'm more pissed than saddened by this...

My grades have always been piss poor. I've always associate this with the fact that I'm a lazy son of a b*tch who always manages to find something better to do other than my school work. However, my parents seem to see things differently. Somehow, they've gotten it into their heads that I have Attention Deficit Disorder, the mental condition which all parents seemingly believe their children are afflicted with if they don't score perfect A's on their report cards. Up until now, I've been perfectly happy to let them believe whatever they've wanted to, so long as it kept them off my back about my grades. However, all that has chaged. Now they've started to seriously consider placing me on ridalin. I've tried telling them that my grades are a result of lazyness and a general disinterest in my studies, but they're so conviced that I'm some perfect little child that they refuse to believe that my low scholastic achievments could be any fault of my own.

While I don't believe that I'll ever actually be forced to take ridalin, it has got me thinking about how our society is so quick to label people as flawed and throw drugs at them in the hopes of "fixing" them, never stopping to consider that they may not be "broken" at all. People have different learning styles, that's a fact of life. Yet, instead of catering to each child's needs, schools simply brand those who don't "get with the program" as being defective, and force them to take exotic drugs, many of which can still be considered as experimental, when it hasn't even been established whether or not anything is truly "wrong" with them. Rather than place the blame where it belongs, on the children, they create mental conditions and abnormailites. What's worse is that people actually believe them. For example, fat people nowadays are convinced that their obesity is caused by a chemical imbalance and a genetic abnormality. It's much easier than believing that their fat ass is a result of low self control and overeating on their part. Having once been fat myself, I used to believe this... until I simply stopped eating 24 hours/day and lost a good 100 pounds.

In today's "modern" society, why are people so quick to label those who are different as being defective?

-Keiichi

[Zundfolge]

I'm a lazy son of a b*tch who always manages to find something better to do other than my school work....I've tried telling them that my grades are a result of lazyness and a general disinterest in my studies...

This is one of the main reasons I left pursuit of a career in Psychology. :mad:

Instead of pumping you fill of drugs, your parents should just punish you for laziness (sorry man, but that's really the truth :( ).

ADHD is rare, but over diagnosed. It's yet another step toward the government claiming everyone suffers from some sort if "mental disorder" and thus needs their civil rights removed from them "for their own protection".

[Chronic]

Don't feel bad man, just think about it this way: Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness pays off now, and don't people always say seize the moment? My mother has ADD, and she's fine, but school was tough, and ADD is becoming more common these days. Anyway, you won't have to take ridalin if you don't want to, they can't force it down your throat. Remeber that.

[BlueSniper]

same thing happens to me, man. we have allot in common. so what I wold say is join the army. it helps put dicipline in your veins. you think mad perrents are bad, try gettin kicked in the ribs because one of your 200 pushups werent right-angle! that'll teacha...

[ElectricSheep]

I have been diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD), and I have to admit that I have signifigant difficulty concentrating on any one thing for extended periods of time (say anything more than 30 minutes) not matter what it is. Even things I really want to do just fall out of focus or I'll become very tired and unable to continue.

Rather than take medication, I've found that by doing several things at the same time and just alternating between each one every 20 minutes or so, I can get stuff done. Listening to music also helps a lot as it creates just enough variation in the background to keep me energized.

Now, I HAVE seen a classic case of ADHD. My cousin has it. I swear to god, if this guy misses a *single* dose of his ritalin, he is literally bouncing off of the walls. I can remember one time where he had to excuse himself from the dinner table to do laps around the house just to calm down. He wasn't diagnosed until he was 15 or so. Before then, his parents just thought it was too much sugar in his diet, so he was forced to eat low-sugar foods *constanty*. He got so desparate he used to smuggle bags of granulated sugar into his room just to sweeten the stuff he ate.

[Goat Fucker]

"Rather than place the blame where it belongs, on the children"

*AHEM*

You where on to something good just a minute earlier Keiich.

"People have different learning styles"

There are 3 major ways of learning, and ofcorse as many variations of the 3 as there are people in this world, thouse 3 are:

1) Seeing
2) Hearing
3) Doing

School only cators to one of thease, and thats seeing, so anyone who does not learn like this, wont learn much in school.
Hearing is allso covered a minute bit in school, but its far from enough, but doing is not covered at all.

The problem does not lay soely with the kids, its the school system if you ask me, the reason kids get "lazy" and start to fall behind, is because school is just too damn hard, they are not tought in a way they can understand and learn from, and constantly fall behind, and any task will get tiering and boring when you cant figure out how to do it properly.
The "lazyness" we often see with school children is fueled by hopelessnes, and not just lazyness IMO.

Ohh and just to get with the topic, dont take that s<b></b>hit they are trying to fill you with, its a waste of good health.

[Zundfolge]

the reason kids get "lazy" and start to fall behind, is because school is just too damn hard...

I don't think that school is too hard (at least not in the US, maybe Danish schools are real tough)...I'd go so far as to say that it's not hard enough, and that's part of the reason so many kids fail... they're bored and unchallenged.

Keiichi, I was exactly like you in school. I was what they called "the classic over intelligent under achiever". I barely got through highschool with a 2.25GPA (however I scored in the top 1% on both the ACT and the ASVAB and had an IQ much higher then "average") and I didn't do much better in college.

My problem was not chemical, it was simply a lack of discipline (both self and external). I think this is probably Keiichi's problem too.

Now as to who is to blame, I think the blame can pretty much be divided between parents, the school system and the student himself. It's the parents' and teachers' job to identify the way a child learns and gently push them in that direction, while at the same time teaching them good work ethic and study habits and self discipline. It sounds like Keiichi's parents and teachers failed there (much like mine did). But also as the student grows, and matures he should know better and apply himself.

Keiichi, please don't take this as an overly harsh criticism of you...because everything I've said about you can apply to me 100%. I'm just speaking from my own experience.

dont take that **** they are trying to fill you with, its a waste of good health.
That's one of the things that bugs me most...parents and teachers are so quick to risk their children's physical health because they are too damn lazy themselves to try to figure out how best to approach the education of each individual child...and the lack of resolve to consistently apply the needed pressure.

Funny how if you started to self medicate with alcohol or and illicit drug, everyone would be aghast. :rolleyes:

[deathren]

Heh. Have you actually been diagnosed with ADD?
by a (whoeverthehelldoesthatcrapikindaforgot)?
Whack 'em with that one!

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

"over intelligent under achiever"... yup, that's me. In my spanish class, the teacher keeps a record of missed assignments up on the grade sheets. My class (6th hour) has over twice as many missed assignments total as the 7th hour class, but if I wasn't on the list we would actually have less. But I ace prettymuch every test and quiz, and if my final went as well as I thought it did, I should wind up with a C.

I think I'm just like BlueSniper; I plan on joining the army... it's not really just natural laziness, it's lack of motivation. I think I'd find alot of things soldiers do on a regular basis fun enough for me to want to do, and when that's not true I've always got the drill instructor pushing me.

[phatcat]

heh ^_^

I would never guess you as Lazy keech :D

yeah I'm lazy too :)

I do have a problem with INSTANT RECALL

like if if someone would just snap at me to recall what 5x3 was, I would not...

its weird.

and if I when I use logic if my mind strays or I think to deeply about a problem part I lose focus and then lose the whole thing.

[Keiichi]

When I said "Rather than place the blame where it belongs, on the children", I was refering to myself. Basically, I'd come home, throw my backpack down on my bed and think to myself "Hmmm, should I do my homework or play Final Fantasy VII?" Of course, I'd choose the game (like any sane child would). Like Zundfolge, I think the main problem was simply a lack of discipline and motivation, coupled with very little parental supervision. I had no one checking to make sure that I was actually doing my homework, so I simply didn't do it. If my parents actually bothered to ask if I had done it, I'd lie. It was that easy.

Also like Zundfolge, I scored miserably low on homework, but amazingly high on tests. I've always gotten A's and B's on exams, I seem to recall scoring within the top 6% on my ACT and within the top 4% on my ASVAB (I outscored everyone at the Navy recruiting office), I've been reading at a college level since the 6th grade, and I believe my IQ was measured at something around 140. Yet, looking at my report card, my final GPA was only 1.7.

The reason I know that I don't have ADD is that, when I'd actually do my school work, I'd spend two or three hours doing it, get it done, turn it in the next day and get an A or a B. The few opprotunities where I was able to do school work while at school, like in study hall, I'd zip through it in no time and get virtually everything right. It's just that most teachers didn't give enough free time in class to let me get the work done, and I had far too many distractions at home (video games, television, computers, etc). I think the reason that my parents believe that I have ADD is because, as far as they know, I was doing all my homework. They saw me getting A's and B's on all of my tests, but getting D's and F's on my school work, and they jumped to an obvious conclusion. I don't blame them for that. If anyone is responsible, it's myself.

I'm definately a learn-by-doing kind of guy. If someone is trying to teach me how to do something, they can talk all day long and I won't learn a d*mn thing. However, if they just let me do it, I'll pick it up on my own in no time at all.

-Keiichi

[jaunty]

I would classify myself as an over intelligent underacheiver. Like you Keiichi, I do almost nothing in class or for homework (sleep and read what actually interests me) but I usually pull about 90% on exams without too much study.

I can't speak for the US schools, but my experience with Aussie schools is that you only get what you pay for. If you go to a govt. school, and therefore pay only for equipment, you'll be given the most basic education possible, by teachers who really couldn't give a rat's ass about you.

If you go to a private school, and pay up to $5000 a term (in fees alone) you'll be given a good education, treated like s<u></u>hit by all the snob kids and be a better person by the end of it all. (Assuming you dont kill one of them.)

Theres also the selective schools, which require you to sit an entrance exam. This is where I will hopefully end up next year. Although better than a govt. school, with teachers who actually give half a damn, its still not that great.

Kids in private schools, for some reason, dont get ADD, whereas govt schools have a 60/40 split of ADD (60% diagnosed) so ritalin city here we come.

The strange thing is, that most of these people are so placcid, and so calm. The teachers say they dont pay attention in class (You can only be tought about how we killed aboriginies by the dozen for so many years before it gets boring). Parents here that little Johnny isn't paying attention, therefore, he has an attention deficit, better give him some drugs, ey?

I think the #1 contributing factor to the so called "attention deficit" is that people are being taught the same crap for 12 years, but it only takes 1 year to sink into most people, and then the other 11 years are spent griping about how they've already done it.

Schools also need to stop throwing the retarded kids in with the "normal" kids, and teaching them on the same level. They need to pull out the Einstein Jrs and put them in their own class. This is done to a degree, but it isn't very effective.

For example. I am in the 10th year of school. I am in the highest possible english science and maths calss. So far this year, I am yet to come upon an area in any of the three subjects that i wasn't tought last year (sometimes the year before aswell), and even more annoying, is the craptasticly stupid people who dont understand it, then complain because they've already been tought it before.

Re: what Goat said.

Schools concentrate on two learning methods. Seeing and hearing. Even in computer classes its rare to actually use a computer. You spend two years learning the history of them and what all the parts do. Then when you do get on them, you dont learn anything besides word processing, spreadsheets and databases.

The schools really need to change their attitude towards learning, and start trying to figure out why kids are getting annoyed in class, instead of juyst blaming it on ADD and then dosing the kid up on drugs that do more harm than good.

*takes his pills*

jaunty learn now.

[Ballistophobia]

I have ADHD. Up until 4th grade teachers told my parents I was just bad and the like. My 4th grade teacher was the one who thought there might be something more to it. I was tested several times and indeed I did have it. It's a chemical imbalance and although it's very well known, it's usually not well <i>known</i>. I've been on ritalin, adderal, and dexedrine because of it. I feel these drugs are effective, but they change you. In school I became very anti-social when I was on them, something I was anything but when off. They, however, did help me do my work, but I dropped out in 11th grade so you can tell how important it was to me. I'd rather have my own personality and be homeless than be successful and not know who I am half the time.

<a href="http://www.tribes2review.com/"><img src="http://jrock628.homestead.com/files/T2pics/toolsig.jpg" border=0></a>
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[Mad_Dog]

i've often wondered if i have ADD, just becuase i seem to have had a few of the symptoms over the years. more likely, i was probably just a really ill behaved kid. in kindergarten i can't remember a single recess i didn't spend sitting on the front steps of the school cause i tripped or hurt some kid in my class. my mom recalls how she got a call from the school every day about my misbehavious, and eventually i had to walk to school cause i got kicked off the bus. however, through my parents discipline, and me figuring out that it's much much easier to have friends when people aren't worried about you punching them in the face, i eventually became a relatively normal responsible young adult. ;)

i still do ****ty in school though. funny thing is, all through grade and high school, teachers always told me and my parents i was smarter than average, and i did grades 3 and 4 in one year because of this. the only time i have done really well was in my last year of high school so i could get into the program and university i really wanted to get into (i wanted in there really, really bad.) this year has been a bad year... i think i've failed 3 or 4 courses, just cause i have no discipline. study or play computer games or surf the net? definitely not studying... it's a pain in the ass, and something i definitely have to work on, since i'm the only one who can fix it. wish me luck...:)

[DLL]

Keiichi and Zundy have it right on. ADD is overly diagnosed and is a cop out for parents. Of the few "ADD" kids that I've seen, their parents were total wimps.

ADD Parent: "Oh, little Johnny, don't light the curtains on fire again... oh gosh, look at that." "Now please stop stepping on the cat's head." STOMP STOMP STOMP "Johnny, mommy said not to step on the cat's head." STOMP STOMP STOMP "I wish he would listen."

My mom when I was a kid: "Stop that!" WHACK! "You know better then to do that!"

I was AFRAID of getting in trouble when I was a kid. Did my mom scar or bruise me? Heck no. Did she light up my rear with a belt when I deserved it? Heck yeah. Child Protective Services is ruining the children of this country by prohibiting physical force discipline. I've read stories in the paper about parents and grandparents being jailed because they spanked a child with a belt. And we're not talking about bruising or drawing blood with the belt, just a normal spanking.

Edit - This reminds me of the time my sister was babysitting my cousin. My cousin was 5 and my sister was 12. Anyways my cousin was being a brat, so my sister dissolved a Tylenol PM in his koolaid. Obviously this was wrong.. kinda funny.. but wrong. So why are other drugs acceptable?

[RogueLeader]

Another victim falls to the drug culture, when parents who don't like how their child acts can use mind warping drugs to "fix" them. I say just take the drugs, then do even worse. Even better, start acting like me! After about the fifth time the cops haul you in for threating to kill them for being the "SS of the totilatarian demagagues in Washington", your parents will decide the drugs arn't helping.

[Zundfolge]

After about the fifth time the cops haul you in for threating to kill them for being the "SS of the totilatarian demagagues in Washington", your parents will decide the drugs arn't helping.
Well...that or they will replace your ridilin with Thorazine :eek:

[phatcat]

yet again you blow things out of preportion :rolleyes:

do you wear tinfoil hats to bed rouge? :D


it really depends on the parents. in the late 80's I was do'n bad in school and my teachers thought I was retared (ABOUT ME (http://phatcat.animedominion.com/info.html)) and thougth I needed meds. my mom is a RN and whent nutz when she heard a teacher was trying to prescribe drug she sh*t a brick :D

my mom made sure I did my work, which curved my lazyness. :)

I love my mom and how she was *gasp* a parent. and "most" of the decisions she made for me when I was a child where within reason, now that I look at them as a adult :)

still kinna lazy, but not as bad as I could have been :)

I dislike the parents who don't want to take care of there kids who cry out for the GOV to babysit them for them :p

[LifesBane[4C]]

It's interesting...
My Chiropractor (sp?) was talking about modern day doctors and that's what they all are for. You have a problem, they have a drug. Although many of those drugs can cause side-effects which lead to other drugs, they still give them to you.