Rubbers!

[Luminuis]

Hmmm, is it just me or does that sound horrible? ;) :D


What I mean is what about soem Rubber Bullets! That way we can have clan training sessions with the rubber bullets and so someone knows they get hurt, but they don't die...


/me shrugs


It's just a thought.

[Snakeye]

I'm offline-only player, so I might not get the basic point of your suggestion..

Why in the world would we need rubber bullets in INF? I never got hurt playing and you can believe me I died often and painful.

The only use for rubber rounds IRL is in police forces (ever played SWAT3?), and if INF is one thing not, then it's a police mod. Apart from that rubber rounds bring back bad memories; I tried to use them once in SWAT3 and was promptly killed by one person hit by five rubber rounds - that led me to use 5.56 bullets only(and an occasional .45ACP), which led to a very bad 'unnecessairy use of lethal force'-score..

Snakeye :D

[Kisen_K]

Yeah, would be great for clan training...

[Luminuis]

say you're playing in a clan match, just your clan practicing their 1337 skills in sicily, so they are all working as squads, well, they run itno another squad and get into a firefight, since it's your clan you know they'll adhere to the rules, when you get hit you drop dead (done by proning or feign deathing) and simply wait for a while, then when no enemies are around, you pop back up and gather your squad and go on the hunt for the rascals that killed you, it just seems like a good idea, a way to have an infinitely long round without sacrificing people knowing they got hit, this was just an idea, really you could use it for training with your team. It could be a mutator, and really it's a great way to practice with partners, that way you can practice not shooting your team running through the drills over and over again.



I dunno, It WAS just a thought...kinda dumb I guess.

[Snakeye]

OK, looks like I still don't get it.

What would be the difference between the rubber round idea, and just playing standard INF as practice with some friends? That way you don't have to feign death when hit, you simply are killed..

Or is that something you don't do in a clan or so? Is there some codex which says 'thou shallst not frag thy clan brethren'?

Snakeye :D

[Luminuis]

No, no, this is so that you can clan practice, say me and Kisen and Bls and you all got together and Bls hosted a game and added that mutator, me and Bls were on one team, you and Kisen on another, Me and Bls foudn you guys and I got kisen right in the face, he sees his health go down and he feigns death, you look over and Bls tosses a flash/bang frag next to you, your health drops so you drop down, me and Bls go and check each others kills, then we scurry off for you to find us, you then once you receieve our "We're Ready" signal hope out of feign death mode, reload your guns and then troop off to find where we are, using sneaky aproaches and practicing them, and then you see me poke my head out the window of a building, you run towards it with Kisen right behind, you go slowly throught he building, till you get to our hideout, a shootout follows and you cap me and Bls, you then scury off to your hiding place, and we wait and then hunt you.


The reason it's better than just playing INF is that you can do this till somebody really does die and the round starts over or until everybody runs out of ammo, and the host restarts the round. This way you can frag each toehr till the sun goes down (or comes up) and you get tons of practice in that one round at doing it, plus then you don't know where me and Bls are hiding, and we don't know where you are, instead of us both rushing towards the center, You're an offline player so bots would need to be tweaked anyways and this may not be soemthign you wanna do, but you can get practice too, you know that when you get hit you see your health flash and you know what not to do next time, it just kinda makes it easier to practice and have other peopel tell you what you did wrong. Great for online clan practice but pretty useless for offline players.

[Snakeye]

Alright, I get the point, and even to a dedicated offline player it makes sense. But why not make a mutator, which triggers the feign death after you got the ammount of damage necessairy to die in normal INF. The effect would be about the same - since it was only feign death the round would remain the same and noone dies, but it might be easier to code than rubber rounds..

Don't know, but your idea definately makes sense.

Snakeye :D

[Luminuis]

The rubber bullets simply do less damage than normal bullets, which I'm sure isn't that hard to code, and it works on the honor system, but perhaps after so much "perceived damage" was done instead it caused you to feign death automatically then that would be better, and it has in the stats screen "Feigning Death" or soemthing....hmmm.


Anyone else have any ideas?

[Pleuresaap]

i just got a stupid little question: what does 1337 mean?

[Kisen_K]

1337 = leet = elite

[Dr.Dase]

Well, usually rubber bullets aren't fired from standard rifles, shotguns can fire them, and standard rifles with a ballistic cap thingy at the end of the barrel and a blank cartridge. This makes for some serious reloading times, every shot. Better would be to, as you say, add a mutator that just kills you for a certain time, and then you "respawn" at the point you were killed, that way you wouldn't restart the round that fast, and ppl wouldn't "cheat" by mistake etc.

Plus, rubber bullets are still dangerous, i read about a palestinian shot by Israeli military with rubber bullets, it entered the skull and killed him, but i guess it was fired at CLOSE range....

[Luminuis]

Actualyl Dr.Dase A rubber bullet is simply a Rubber...Bullet, you put a rubber pellet the shape and size of the bullet you're replacing into the casing of the bullet, you know have a rubber bullet,

And yes, when fired at (point blank) ranges rubber bullets will kill


I think the mutator is a better Idea right now though.

[asmodeus]

yeah mutators r0x0r

[LordKhaine]

I'm sorry but I fail to see the point of rubber bullets in Inf (except possibly in some hostage/terrorist capture type mission or something in EAS I guess). In real life people use rubber bullets when they dont want to kill someone, and the whole point of computer games is that you cant hurt anyone, and so rubber bullets are kinda pointless.

[DEFkon]

the "rubber bullets" that he's refering to, is meant as a game type, not a weapon(s) to be added.

A number of other "war sims" use something similar as practice, and training purposes. Useually gameplay resembles something similar to a friendly paintball game. Its a little similar to a game with ulimited lives, except rather than respawning after being "tagged" your weapon is unable to be fired for a certain period of time. Also you're usally given an unlimited amount of Mags, since your never going to respawn/restart.

The main idea is that since nobody dies (although there usualy is a point system) the skirmish is strickly a time based situation. Because players aren't forced to wait for a new round they can continue to practice different weapons, and get to know level layouts. Think of it as a virtual water gun fight. No loss, all fun, get skills...

personally i'm all up for it as a game type.

[Luminuis]

LK, no offense, but next time don't make yourself look dumb, and read ALL the posts, not just the subject and then immediately respond.

[LordKhaine]

Gabriel, I did read all the posts, as I always do. I fail to see why im suddenly "dumb" for stating my opinion. I just dont see it really been worth it at all. I mean, what clan would use this mutator on a server to practice?

a) Why practice with rubber bullets when you can practice with the real thing? There is no better way to prepare for a game of INF, than to play, you guessed it, a game of INF.

b) Setting up mutators on servers can be a real bitch, lines get kept in ini files and so people end up having to d/l it all the time.

c) All you have suggested, is that people arent killed, just knocked down for a bit. Strikes me as far easier to just play with real bullets, and respawn people if you dont want people to get killed.

d) Also, I'd like you to point out one organisation that actually fires rubber rounds at each other to "practice". Hardly a realistic suggestion is it?


And lets top it of with your own quote shall we?

I dunno, It WAS just a thought...kinda dumb I guess.

I couldnt agree more.

[Luminuis]

LK, Where did I say yo WERE dumb? Let's START off with a Quote from myself...

LK, no offense, but next time don't make yourself look dumb


LOOKing and BEing are two different things LK.


Now, next point:The point is this, you get knocked otu for a few moments, which gives the attacking team time to re-group and hide, you then get back up, and try to find the enemy, not a complex concept...is it?


No. 3: Wah, Setting up mutators aint a bitch, just include the damn mutator with INF, OR better yet simply make it into a gametype like "Rubber Bullet Practice."


No. 4: No, I've suggested a way to do an intresting new game type that I personally would find very fun and a great way to practice.

No. 5: USMC, US Army, You asked for one, I gave you two.

And to top it off, a quote of you:
I mean, what clan would use this mutator on a server to practice?

A good one.


Oh, did I mention, what about the members of the attackign team that die? they respawn at the same time the defending force does, so leaving their bodies there means they respawn and get mowed down...Inspires teamwork on the part of the attacking team to remove their bodies, and adds an element of teamwork, by the fact that the body carriers can't run and have to be using a pistol (I've done this before in a CTF game, I was grabbing for a gun, I had my M9 out and grabbed a body..sweetness) I've not yet repeated the experience and am attempting to, but that would be intresting, at the least wouldn't it LK? or would you rather just Rambo your way about?

[LordKhaine]

Wow, a whole post and I you didnt convince me about anything except that some people are dumb enough to shoot each other with rubber bullets.

[Luminuis]

Wow, a whole post and you did nothing but convince me you're dumber than peopel that shoot each other with rubber bullets.


Actually The SAS uses them as well I believe, and so do several major armies.


Would you rather they tried to actually shoot each other with real bullets when they trained? if so you're one sick son of a b!tch.

[ShakKen]

The SAS does not use rubber bullets. They have no use for them.

In training, most units use Simunition paint rounds. A Canadian product. But given the overall cost of the ammunition, and the time wasted doing cleanups after accuraccy evaluation, most Special Forces groups shoot live amminition at specially set up static and moving/popup sillouettes.

That includes Delta, the SAS and etc.

[HanD_of_DarKNesS]

If you want something like this "Rubber Bullet" mutator, why not simply train in a game with a large number of "reinforcements".

Simply setting the "Reinforcements" number in your game settings to something more that "0" will allow players to immediately respawn after being killed (as in normal UT). It will allow easy training in the ways mentioned by Gabriel, and not require anything more than what is already in INF.

[Dr.Dase]

Well, i've seen rubber bullets fired from a cup at the muzzle of a rifle, but i've never seen the other type, except for being fired from a grenade launcher type rifle, for crowd control. I know plastic bullets are fired from ordinary weapons thou. (i'm not saying there are no rubber bullets fired from conventional weapons, there probably is i would think, but i never heard of them, links or info anyone?)

Plus, who the hell would agree to get shot with rubber bullets? It would be very dangerous if you hit the throat or eyes, or any other vulnerable part of your body, but i guess they wear protection :)

Swedish military uses a type of laser projector and vests, that register hits, much like Lasergame or Laserdome if you played these games...

[LordKhaine]

I know military units use blanks in guns with laser attachment things like you said. Its a far more preferable way to train than with rubber bullets. Rubber bullets arent like paintball, they hurt a lot more, plus in certain places they can blind or kill people.

IMHO, only very, very stupid people would train by actually aiming rubber rounds at each other.

[Mad_Dog]

off topic, a protester at the FTAA summit in quebec city probably won't ever speak again from a rubber bullet in the throat.

on topic, i think it would be a waste of time for the team to code, it would make you lazy and lose your skills, IMHO.

[asmodeus]

yeah, he got it pretty bad:(