Warren's update: rounds left!

[Slava(Spetsnaz)]

A late reply to this particular topic, I know, but I think it's important this feature doesn't get implemented. I don't think it would be realistic, even in 25% increments. Right now keeping track of your ammo in the head is both realistic and an extra element in the game. Think of the CQB maps and the shotgun. Keeping track of your shots is what can give you the advantage over a trigger happy person that just fires away. I really think that it's a good thing that people can develop an INF-virtue, that after a gun fight they know exactly how many rounds they have left, and can make a quick decission based on if another danger is present.
If you absolutely need ammo count implemented, make it as a magazine check feature, ie. you actually use time checking the magazine before getting the ammo count.

[The_Fur]

How realistic is it for you not to feel that your mag is near emtpy? It's not, IRL the difference in weiht between a full mag and a near empty one would be sufficient for you to notice.

[Kisen_K]

Yeah, you would definatly notice the difference between a clip with one bullet and a full one...

[{LOD}WolfBear]

I agree with Fur you can dang sure tell you are getting low IRL, and assuming you are a professional with years of training and usage I don't think knowing by quarters is unrealistic.

{LOD}WolfBear{:D} -my daddy was a pistol and I am a son of a gun-

[Edge(Tribe)]

thats why they said they are going to put in a weight system so u can judge by weight how many bullets are left, not by just numbers

[NotBillMurray]

Gotta reiterate from an earlier thread, the only time this makes any sense to me is during a magazine swap. As soon as it is loaded in the weapon, I think all bets should be off. An empty magazine weighs around a quarter pound. A loaded magazine weighs less than a pound. If you can tell the difference between an 8 1/4 pound vanilla M16 and a 9 pounder, you're way better than anyone I've met. And if you can tell the difference between 8 1/4 pounds and 8 1/2 pounds, you're really impressive, because that is what is necessary to identify a 1/4 loaded magazine and an empty one.

I for one will be disappointed if the team creates an ever-present ammunition gauge. Maybe they can make it a server option so we can choose to remove it?

[Luminuis]

I hate to say it, I know marines that can pick up an M4 and tell you accurately, without knowing ahead of time, or without seeing anyone fire it, or anything, EXACTLY how many rounds it has in the clip, then again, they are pros who spend more time with guns than they spend with their girlfriends.

[Edge(Tribe)]

the people we play as in Inf are professional soldiers who are experienced in many types of weapons and clean their firearms daily :)

[Luminuis]

Exactly...so they can tell the weight difference, from experience..

[{GD}Ghost]

I don't know anything about Marines being able to pick up a weapon and tell by its weight, how many rounds are in the magazine. I don't doubt that there are people that can do this, but it isn't part of firearms training and it isn't the norm. Having gone through police academy firearms training (taught by an ex-marine), we were trained to count our rounds. We had to know how many rounds we had fired and how many were left in the magazine and decide tactically when we needed to reload. Judging by weight never entered the training program.

[NotBillMurray]

I agree, there are always those that can, but they are the exception, not the norm (IMO). I would be interested if the real weapon enthusiasts among us can accomplish this task?

Please also remember the conditions that you will be in when you are performing this task. The battlefield is slightly different than the barracks.

BTW Gabriel, they wouldn't happen to work at the range, would they?

[Snakeye]

IMO that rather depends on the weapon. I've shot an M9 some times, and you really can feel the 15 rounds more weight, and therefore also how the weapon becomes gradually lighter while shooting - so with a bit of practice it should be achieveable with most guns. If you can feel the difference with a PSG-1 seems rather unprobable to me, since it's very heavy and compared to the rifle the 20 7.62 NATO rounds don't have that much weight.
Perhaps it should be based on the comparison weight of the gun to weight of the loaded mag..

Snakeye :D

[HanD_of_DarKNesS]

I agree with Monk_Zero and Skaneye that the system should depend on the weight of the weapon itself in comparison to the ammunition. The Beretta, FN Five-seveN and other smaller weapons would likely be farily easy to determine the number of rounds left (to 25% increments). However, with something like a fully loaded M16A2 (ACOG, M203), or other heavier weapons, it's unlikely that kind of determination would be easily (or even somewhat easily) made.

I don't see any problem with the current system. I seem to have a sixth sense for the relative amount of ammunition left in my weapon in INF, as many players do. Because of this, I have rarely ever gotten caught with less ammo than I thought. because this current system of keeping track on your own is realistic, I see no need to change it.

The only change I could potentially see is a seperate button to remove the magazine (or partly do so) in order to bring up the 25% counter, as the magazine would then be weighed on it's own, and not with the weight of the gun as well. This would also force people to check their ammo sparingly, as it would require a bit of time.

[Snakeye]

I agree with Monk_Zero and Skaneye

Who is that Skaneye?? I don't know anyone with that name..

Perhaps because it's spelled:

SNAKEYE

Snakeye :D

[Slava(Spetsnaz)]

The weight issue depends on many factors. You feel a slight weight change if the magasine is located front, but bullpup might be another matter. Large magasine sizes will of course change this. I know that on paper it seems perfectly logic that when walking around with your fully loaded M16 you have an added weight of 1.8 kg. But really in a combat situation you stress your body already in all sorts of way, in addition you fire from various positions that will either degrade or completely remove your abbility to judge the weight of the weapon (supporting the weapon, either prone or against objects). Add to that the constant jerks of your weapon, the andrealine rush, possible disorientation due to the combat situation, and we're almost there.

But that said, weight does make a difference, for instance the AKMSU's drum magasine must be a bitch to handle... Even without calculating the weight of the magasine itself the bullets themselves weight well over 8kg. Yet in INF we can swing this baby around like a a toy weapon. So BTW If the INF team want's some simple Inertia code, feel free to contact me.

Compared to RL... I really don't feel much of a weight difference between a fully loaded 9mm pistol and when the magasine is empty, and by my logic a pistol would be among the weapons where the weight difference is more noticeable. When I think of 25% increments of my experience with that, hmmmm a hard task actually. I realize that some might be able to do it, but in regular military training you do not determine ammo count by weight. Also thinking that it might just be me, I've contacted two of my friends with more weapon experience than me(one of them a military instructor) and they can only confirm that they can't determine by weight either, and don't practice that.
But I can still be convinced, do you have some information describing this procedure.. It could be used by Special Ops, but it would certainly be something they had to train, you would really want to be dead sure you had two bullets left or not!

[SoSilencer]

2 bullets? How many people here let a mag go that low? Personally I reload once I hit about the 50% mark. If I've already killed a few people and I'm nearing 50% I'll usually unload the whole second half of the mag into my next target so that when I reload I drop an empty mag, not put a mag with 4 bullets back into my pouch.

[Luminuis]

No, they lived at the range, LOL, yes these guys spent more time with guns than with their girlfriends, and they spent alot of time with their girlfriends,


They were specialists, and yeah a couple worked at the range, but these guys hit targets with Iron sights from 500+ meters that I could barely hit with Iron sights at 250...

[NotBillMurray]

I only ask because the only guys I knew that could do something like tell the number of bullets in a weapon were range administrators, and that was only with M16's. They did have the kind of encyclopedic knowledge that Gryphon and Shakken have for various weapons, but they would be at a loss to pick up the Sig and do the same thing.

I do agree that this is easier for weapons where the bullet weight is a greater percentage of the weight of the loaded weapon. But as HoD stated, there really isn't much need for it. I think the check mag option would be a great compromise, and I still think that the gauge can realistically be seen during a reload.

How many people check their magazine unless it is their last one? If that is done rarely, there is little need to add a new key. Just show the gauge during reload, and add a small change to the code for final magazines. If you have no spares mags, or have picked up a dropped weapon, you should remove the magazine, show the gauge, and have a text indication that "No more mags" so you know you haven't reloaded. Currently the game doesn't allow you to reload if you don't have any spares. There shouldn't be a need for new animations, just the same sound without the "pouch zipper" approach.

I've been a fan of the inertia approach for some time, and hope that it is implemented. If they went all out, and dynamically adjusted the inertia of the weapon, the truly skilled could tell the amount of rounds in the drum for the AKMSU based on the handling. That would help simulate the soldiers that sleep with their weapons.

I personally think that inertia will change a lot of things about this game, definitely for the better IMO.

[Luminuis]

These guys make Gryph and Shak (who have impressive knowledge I'll admit) look like a whiny 14 year old who had played too many realistic FPSs, these guys were freaks about there weaopons too, a couple spent more time cleaning and oiling their guns than firing them. Yeah I know range administrators that can do that.