Weapon Jams

[RogueLeader]

LCJr. suggested starting a seperate thread for this, so I decided to revive the topic. I would like to say I support weapon jams. NOT RANDOM WEAPON JAMS. In real life there is nothing that happens randomly. Everything happens according to the basic laws of physics...and weapons do not randomly jam, they jam because they are treated badly, get dirt inside them, etc. This also adds a great deal of tactics to the game. For one, weapon reliability would be a factor in choosingn a weapon. So you may not want to use an M16 if you plan on jumping around a lot, swimming, throwing it on the ground, or firing clip after clip nonstop. That last one is a real problem. I recorded a demo of someone doing that with an AKSMU but I accidentally overwrote it, so I can't upload it here. This guy, when he knew there was someone at a certain location (like when he rushed at the beginning of a map so he knew people would be coming from certain places), would start firing, then run around the corner, and continue running around firing from his drum until it ran out, so that he could just point at someone so they would die. I doubt an AKSMU could take that kind of punishment.

AND I REPEAT AGAIN BEFORE I GET FLAMED BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T READ POSTS BEFORE REPLYING, I DO NOT MEAN RANDOM JAMS.

[Nerf Herder]

Yes the AKMSU very likely could take that kind of damage. The AK series pretty much laughs at anything you throw at it to try to break it. I'm for weapon jamming personally. If you dive on the ground alot with your M16 it's probably not going to be good for it. Also it'd make picking weapons off the ground a poker game. Do you really want to trust that M-16 that was sitting in that mud puddle or do you want to stick with your M9 that you know works.

[DarkBls]

I'ù for weapon jamming too.

Not random a random event based, but a RL based.

Trowing them in water, from a roof, on a hard surface etc...

If people walk on them while they are on the ground a lot of times ...

Of course it must match the RL situation of jamming.

[The_Fur]

Count me in.... I shall stomp all over the m16 with my AKMSU

[LordKhaine]

I would have thought an AKMSU would take all that, and prolly more. Its not like its a PSG or anything :)

Weapon jamming could be good if well implemented, but to implement it well would require a lot of cpu power and ram. All comes down to the unreal engine and hardware requirements.

[The_Fur]

but to implement it well would require a lot of cpu power and ram

please explain to me HOW that would take up any more power then any other event in inf?

[LordKhaine]

Originally posted by The_Fur


please explain to me HOW that would take up any more power then any other event in inf?

It would take up cpu power to work out how much of a beating a gun had taken. Which to be realistic, would need to take note of how much a gun has fired in how much time, how much its been dropped, wheter its been in water, for how long its been in water, how many times people have gone prone, and the many other things that can have been suggested and can cause gun to jam. Then you need to take into acount the coding to unjam a gun, and the animation required to unjam the gun, all would take up more memory and cpu power, and increase the d/l size of the mod. And don't even think of suggesting that you wouldnt be able to un-jam a gun, as that would a) suck, and b) be unrealistic.

Plus you would have to store the info for the guns in the ram, plus you would have to store and send the data for this information to and from the server. A server would have a lot of players, all of them using guns, all of them would require server ram and cpu power, as well as taking up bandwidth for telling clients when they would jam. It may not take any more power than any other funtion, but it does require a lot of coding for very little gain. Yeah, lets spend bandwidth, memory, cpu cycles and time coding to work out when a gun will jam, despite the fact the chance of a gun jamming is so slim its very unlikely to happen anyway, smart move there.

I can't see this feature being done well on the unreal engine, and if it can't be done well, its not worth wasting time doing it. Give me new guns and new game types over gun jamming anyday of any month.

[LifesBane[4C]]

I'm for keeping Jamming out.

[DredDamo]

Animations, unjamming code would not add any to the cpu or ram. it'd just be more on the d/l size, but wouldn't hurt performance any. It's all static stuff that would go into effect when jammed/unjamming.

Bandwidth - not an issue. That stuff would be processed locally, the only thing you're sending is your location and if you're firing or not - obviously with a jam you wouldn't be so you'd actually decrease yer bandwidth issues, LOL.

Do you realize how much info is already in the mod, for the guns? Every anim, every static shot from random angles, the way bullets fly out, what position it's in, how much damage is dealt by those, how many shots/mags remaining (these are counters too, nearly identical to the jam variable except they decrease on shooting instead of increasing on weapon damage taken!!!) etc etc. Another variable would be nothing. Well, very little anyhoo.

And yeah, it'd be one more variable, just one though, could even be an integer that grows as all the events you described occur - very little cpu time taken there, again, locally so your local/server worries are quite irrelevant. You start with a clean gun and a value of 0. Everytime you go prone you add a single line to increase your variable by, say, oh..10 I guess. Jumping into water-20. Throwing the gun, 15. When you get to 100, blammo, weapon jam. Unjamming resets it to 0. pretty simple, I prolly could write it in if I saw the code :D We're talking 1 additional line of code per event, a very simple integer add at that! Maybe 5 events? 5 lines for the event, few more for the actual jam to go in (same code as for running out of ammo, except it would overwrite the ammo count one - instead of not being able to fire when out of ammo, not being able to fire when jammed). Shrug. It could even call the same routine if Unreal code is OOP...

So, yer talking out yer arse. Or I am but I really don't think so :) I do acknowledge the possilibity tho'.

This idea rox0rz. Down with randomness.

[L]-Damodred

[LordKhaine]

Its still code that is a waste of time in my opinion. Why take up resources for stuff that isnt needed. As INF stands, it has a small amount of guns, no different ammo, TDM as basicly the only game type, it has only 2 hit locations, no vehicles, and you are suggesting jamming? Yeah, im sure the Team have that set right at the top of the list :rolleyes:

[The_Fur]

It would take up cpu power to work out how much of a beating a gun had taken. Which to be realistic, would need to take note of how much a gun has fired in how much time, how much its been dropped, wheter its been in water, for how long its been in water, how many times people have gone prone, and the many other things that can have been suggested and can cause gun to jam.
Yeah ofcourse everybody knows that your computer can't hample simple adding and extracting :rolleyes:
Unless you are running a Mark1 punch card mechanical computer all that text you wrote simply represents a few numbers and has about NO affect at all.


Then you need to take into acount the coding to unjam a gun, and the animation required to unjam the gun, all would take up more memory and cpu power,
Wrong, more animations don't affect your performance in any way, it's the models not the movement.


[/quote]and increase the d/l size of the mod.[/quote]
so far the only truth, but since you only need to use the reload anims for clearing a jam that is neglible as well.


And don't even think of suggesting that you wouldnt be able to run-jam a gun, as that would a) suck, and b) be unrealistic.
explain run-jam to me.


Plus you would have to store the info for the guns in the ram, plus you would have to store and send the data for this information to and from the server. see 1, a few number variables don't make any difference, I haven't heard anybody complaining about health data causing "lag" so far.


A server would have a lot of players, all of them using guns, all of them would require server ram and cpu power, as well as taking up bandwidth for telling clients when they would jam.
see about all of the above.


It may not take any more power than any other funtion,
so why did you post all of the above?

but it does require a lot of coding for very little gain.
So did using iron sights accordin to some people, so i'll let it up to the team.

Yeah, lets spend bandwidth, memory, cpu cycles and time coding to work out when a gun will jam, despite the fact the chance of a gun jamming is so slim its very unlikely to happen anyway, smart move there.
Blah blah blah, see all of the above.


I can't see this feature being done well on the unreal engine, and if it can't be done well, its not worth wasting time doing it.
A lot of things in inf weren't supposed to be possible on the UT engine and they decided to go ahead with it anyway.


Give me new guns and new game types over gun jamming anyday of any month.
A lot of guns and no features don't make a good game.

[LordKhaine]

The_Fur, I await the day you actually bother to type your own reply, instead of just quoting other people. Any idiot with a keyboard can quote people, as you prove only too well. All you do is take someones post and quote it, tear it into bits, drag it out till its so huge no-one bothers to read it, then have a go at people typos. Try typing your own reply one day, you may learn something.

[DarkBls]

BTW

<p align="center">http://forums.planetunreal.com/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=1974</p>

[DredDamo]

BTW, a broken picture? Hmmm, I fail to see the relevance.

Well, in my view coding this kind of jamming in really would not take much time compared to say, a whole new weapon.

*if* it does however, and again I want to bring up the fact that I haven't seen any INF code, then I would much rather have mo' guns. But I really doubt the time investment is at all similar.

[Edit:]: Sorry DB, I get all other pics including sigs and avatars which I believe are stored on the forums themselves (so have to go through the forums) fine. This one's broken. A link perhaps?

[Edit:]: modeled and skinned apparently doesn't take as much as coding them in. If jamming was to be put in, the sooner the better so that retro-fixes can be limited to a minimum (the sooner it's put in the less weapons exist w/o it and have to be re-modded). <b>Why are we talking about this anyway?</b> Warren said jamming wouldn't be put in and that's good 'nuff for me. I also doubt modern arms jam in 20-30 minutes of sporadic usage (EP), and even less so in 5-10 (any other map). I guess I just want to say that I don't think it would take very long nor be a drain on anyone's resources if it <b>was</b> decided to put it in.

[LordKhaine]

Remember most of the guns are already modeled, and many are skined. I think we really need to wait till 2.86 to see what to suggest, as I highly suspect that a lot of the issues people are bringing up are being worked on.

[DarkBls]

->DredDamo


DOn't worry I'm not insane... Take a look at your internet connection about the "broken" picture :rolleyes:

[The_Fur]

Strange thing DB i get the same at home AND at work.

Anyway LK, Maybe you need to shut up with your whining, it is simply easier to use quates and respond to bits and parts of a text then to write out a entire reply at once, I do it like this and if you don't like it then go jump off a cliff or something.

The fact remains that about 90 pct of what you said are moot points drawn out in an exessively long text just to make them seem relevant.

[DarkBls]

Strange thing DB i get the same at home AND at work

You just experiment a time-out connection error. How do you feel ? ;)

I know sometimes this board is slower than a bedridden gasteropod :D

[LordKhaine]

Originally posted by The_Fur
The fact remains that about 90 pct of what you said are moot points drawn out in an exessively long text just to make them seem relevant.

I wub j00 too Fur :p

Quotes are good, but I see no need to always quote *everything* someone says.

[Lord_Bunker]

i think it would be cool to show decals on the weapon that kindof indicated a condition. kinda like the blood on the sword in shadow warrior. if you've gummed the gun up enough that it would jam, it would resonabley be pretty dirty on the outside, not to mention it would give you a better idea of ones you picked up. you know you could then make a better decision between the bright shiny desert eagle or the mud encrusted m9.

[DarkBls]

Great Idea Lord Bunker !

I love it ! :D

[RogueLeader]

That is a good idea but I think it would be hard to do realisticly. Perhaps only if you pick it up off the ground (and the ground is dirt).

[DarkBls]

Maybe if you throw your M16 from the roof of a house in kosovo and it hit a wall, you can see some impact on the skin.