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dawriter
19th Apr 2001, 11:53 AM
Hi,

Questions on the engines. Two of them that I'm looking forward to are Unreal 2 and Halo. Doom 3 - I'm a little leery of it.

1. Unreal 2 boasts massive landscape. Will I be able to leave a building while it is snowing then trek across the landscape for miles and enter another building?

2. Exactly how large is an Unreal 2 level? Give me a comparison.

3. DoomIII. I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to this. In one article, the question presented to ID CEO (Todd?) about the terrain landscape - he made a vague reference that they did improve it in Quake Team Arena. Bottom line is, Carmack NEVER successfully implemented massive outdoor levels. Will he suceed in Doom III? If Doom III is going to be claustrophic like Doom 1 and 2 then I'm not buying it despite all it's light and shadows.

dawriter

NeoNite
19th Apr 2001, 05:10 PM
well, doom and doom2 had their share of HUGE, BIG OPEN levels, custom levels that is. I've seen some monster levels. Even bigger than the retail unreal levels.
I'm not kidding.
quake is much more claustrophobic than doom. I should know :)

And about the size of the unreal II levels, just look at the shear size of unreal and ut levels, they're bigger and more open than the q3 space levels.
Check out this ut level dm-falkenstein. uhm, you'll have to lower you're settings if you don't have a solid rig :) but it's big.
I've read this article once, in a game mag, about u2 tech level screenshots. I was really amazed from what i saw in the pics.. real huge open levels, same as in unreal and ut :) one screenshot featured a ctf-setting, 2 forts on a big open field, surrounded by mountains.
These levels aren't going to be used in unreal II afcourse, just to show of what u2 will be capable off.
But i've seen some new screenshots, and again, huge settings. and a dark skaarj ship? well dark.. mood ligthing. HAve you read the U2 preview it was featured on planetunreal. Here's the link;

http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/article/032/094/unreal-02.html

dawriter
20th Apr 2001, 09:03 AM
Neonite,

Thanks so much for the referal to dm-falkenstein! I downloaded it and it's breathtaking! I'm not a map builder (I'm a screenwriter/programmer) but I'm a sucker for huge maps and imersive atmospheres and dm-falkenstein is far by the best map I've ever seen. DM-Europa comes to mind as another large map that I enjoyed imensely.

One thing puzzles me - why don't some of the UT Maps have snow or rain? I thought they had a particle system built in UT?

If anyone can refer me to more gigantic maps with rain/snow I would love it.

Let me rave on about dm-falkenstein - it's beautiful. I even jumped off the tower and it sure does leave me a sick feeling in my stomach. If anyone can point me out to a map that tops dm-falkenstein in size, please post!

Last, are there any maps were I can jump off cliffs and 'parachute' down?

Neonite, before i forget, my rig is a PIII 450 wit 128 mbs of RAM. I put the settings on 640*400 (not sure) and it's almost smooth as silk. I didn't even switch off anything at all. Quality is just as great as 800*600 but it's time for a new rig later.

cheers,
Glenn

NeoNite
20th Apr 2001, 02:16 PM
Yep dm-falkenstein is one helluve big, richly detailed level (luckly the inside is heavily detailed and not the outside that much or.. :) system failure)

YES there is snow in ut maps!!!! dawriter, uhm fire up the map called ICE STATION ZETO and look outsid the window. YOu'll see snow falling down :)
There's a ctf map, dreary outpost, you're in this base and outside there's a thunderstorm going on. You can see the rain falling down etc..
There's this other map, a map featured in the wintermap contest pak, featured at headshot (site can be found on planetunreal). This map also has snow.
Bet there are many others that do.

ANd for another big map, well, this must be if not the biggest, one of THE BIGGEST:

dm-bathroomspeII

you're as big as an ant when walking around in this bathroom. When you're at the top spot of the level, i'll bet you'll really experience a sick feeling in your stomache! THis thing is big!

I played it with 32 bots, and it still felt empty. 64 is ideal.
It's a great darkmatch level, or sniper arena level. :)
ANd it supports the monster madness mutator very well.
(unreal monsters in ut dm, very cool).
YOu can load up even the biggest of the unreal monsters (titan and skaarj queen).
FInd this mutator at:

http://planetunreal.com/modsquad/

dm-europa? :) where can i find that map? NO haven't heard from it yet. Please post me a link. I'm interested.
However, dm-bathroomspe came on a cd (from a gamers magazine). So i can't tell you where to find that map on the net sorry.. hope you'll find it.

ChrisToth.hu
20th Apr 2001, 03:52 PM
There are particle systems in UT but they are good for nothing. Especially not for rain/snow. The rain and snow in Dreary/Zeto is done by panning masked textures. They eat framerates for breakfast...that's why you see so few of them. BTW have you tried DOM-Hysteria...nice rain.

And for the cliff thing:
Umm...large map (http://www.planetunreal.com/dl/nc.asp?nalicity/utctf/ctf-abyss_v2.zip)?

dawriter
20th Apr 2001, 11:53 PM
Neonite,

DM-Eroupa should be at headshot site. Let me know if you find it.

dawriter

dawriter
20th Apr 2001, 11:56 PM
Chris,

Thanks. I'm downloading it and will mess around with it.

Does Unreal II boast a better particle system that doesn't eat video cards and CPUs for breakfast?

Hope so. It's time for an imersive environment.

I agree that Doom I had massive environments and that made it so appealing then Carmac got claustrophic keyboard syndrome and never ventured to the wide expanse of Doom I or II.

Hope he comes up with something in Doom 3

dawriter

NeoNite
21st Apr 2001, 07:47 AM
(btw i'm also d/l that ctf map, i'm only curious, i like big maps (quake trauma). :)

weird, haven't found dm-europa on headshot? :) maybe on nalicity? maybe i've missed it? i'll check agian..

YES let's hope doom has it's share of BIG open spaces, instead of small corridors and rooms all the time.. :I c'mon this is doom we're talking about right? If carmack is so eager on making a new doom, at least i hope the guy makes the right decision about level lay-out.
example? --> big space stations maybe? Huge open wastelands on another planet (maybe mars, some other planet). What would be very cool:
riding around airscooters or something like that on those wastelands, or flying around in these cargo-vessels around the planet? :)
Just think about it, why limiting gameplay to only walking around (dark sector hint, is the dark sector project still alive, haven't checked in ages).
THAT would be a gigantic leap for id. They've never done anything like that in their previous games.
Just you, flying over the wasteland, in an old cargo vessel, approaching the huge base. Something's wrong.. it's too quiet.. the ship docks.. you leave your ship, and all of the sudden, imps in the docking area.. the terror is happening, all over again!

New doom should mean new ideas, many new ideas.
By doing so ID would proove that they're still capable of making a real game. :)
ok the ctf map has finished d/l (56K horror here).

ChrisToth.hu
21st Apr 2001, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by dawriter
Does Unreal II boast a better particle system that doesn't eat video cards and CPUs for breakfast?


Sure. It'll have a massive particle system to simulate fire, smoke...etc.
No more volumetric sheet flames and rain.

NeoNite
21st Apr 2001, 07:02 PM
Dawriter, i've found dm-europa, i'm dl it right now (better be worth it! :-)
i found it on nalicity.
btw, anyone know where i can find the map
"hall of giants"? is it a dm or ctf map?
i've done a search on nali city but no luck so far...

ChrisToth.hu
21st Apr 2001, 07:24 PM
Here ya go...
http://www.planetunreal.com/dl/nc.asp?nalicity/utctf/ctf-hallofgiants.zip

NeoNite
22nd Apr 2001, 08:12 AM
tnx chrisToth.hu

(i'm no ctf player really, but we'll see)

Dm-europa is worth it, .. althought i imagined another style of level when hearing Europa :)
but it's very cool.

the_demigod
5th May 2001, 10:41 AM
I got another question: will they finally manage to LEAVE the bodies where they fall????

I DESPIZE the vanishing body thingy.

Metakill
5th May 2001, 02:18 PM
My favorite things to jump off of are the skyscrapers in DM-terroristremix. This is an awesome level made for Unreal, but works fine in UT. Use fly to get to top, gives a very convincing feeling of height. Plus you can opt to dive into the pavement, or go for the Acupulco diving record into the mucky sewer.

ASMDstick
6th May 2001, 12:28 PM
ain't u guys played Tribes 2 yet??
it doesn't get bigger than Tribes or higher for that matter and P450 with good graf card handles it. Delta Force 2 another monster map game ( i'm getting lost there consantly) :D