How many of you have used firearms?

[LCJr.]

Just out of curiousity, how many of you who play this game have actually used a firearm?

And please for the love of god no comments/debates on gun control. Lets keep this civil.

[Antedeluge]

I do not own my own, but my dad used to hunt. (He took my mom on a hunting trip to Alaska for their honeymoon. He's a fat old bugger now.) I have shot a few of his guns, a few of his friends' guns, my brother-in-law's guns, his friends' guns, you get the picture. Even though I have shot a lot of guns(for a city boy anyway), I don't consider myself an avid shooter. (Mostly 'cuz it's been a while).

I have shot(I'm proud of it 'cuz I'm a city boy):
.22 target pistol (First ever)
Various .22 revolvers
9mm Ruger P-series
.357 magnum revolver
.44 magnum revolver
.38 automatic(I think it was that cheap Llama)
Various .22 rifles
AR-15
Both pump and semi-auto 12-guage shotguns
.270 Winchester deer rifle

[Sebu_NZ]

I fired a blackpowder gun, oh my it was an experience to say the least :)

But I'm prefer modern firearms much more.

[Trak]

I am a recreational shooter, but I haven't had a chance to shoot in the last year because I moved to the city. Thank god for Infiltration, it's almost as satisfying as the real thing.

I have shot :
All manner and gauge of shotguns ( personal favorite )
M 1 Gurand ( favorite rifle )
AK 47
Uzi carbine
.45 Ruger Blackhawk revolver
Colt 1911 .45 ( favorite pistol, I love the history )
All sortsa .22 and .25 pistols and derringers ( I love plinking )
9mm Glock
SKS

[Kastral]

Good ol' pre-highschool summer camp. I'm in collge now so it's been a while. I've shot a .22 rifle and a single barrel shotty at skeets. I am dying to get a pistol though. I want to learn to use it well and get a carrying license... or hell, just move to texas. Well, maybe moving is a little extreme, don't wanna be in bush territory ;-)

[funkstylz]

Your dad took your mom on a hunting trip for their honeymoon....Oh my god...How romantic!

[The_Fur]

uhm i have played Firearms... does that count? :D

[DredDamo]

Well, remember a big part of the INF population is Euro-based where access to guns is virtually nonexistent except in a professional capacity (even cops carry clubs, not guns! At least in England). So your results are prolly skewed towards that...

I have only recently (thanks to INF) gotten sufficiently curious to try it out (about a year or so) and went to a range with my friend who owns a .357 revolver (I'm pretty sure - beastly kick!) and is itching for a Glock, and fired the 9mm Beretta (not sure of details, just your standard semi-automatic pistol), as well as his .357. It was an experience as well...

Too bad I'm a poor student; the firing range (yes, this was in Texas, LOL) had "Fully Automatic Tuesday Nites, Ladies shoot free". I almost died laughing, but was still fascinated especially as the wall display was bristling with all kinds of military equipment (again, this was before INF taught me something about weapons :D ). Great stuff...I'm going back there for that Tuesday Nite thing.

[L]-Damodred

[edit]: True Mr. Laggy (see post below). I've only ever been around Cambridge and they don't get out in force over here :P And I can't say I frequent those parts of London, either, LOL. But that's cops anyway, my point about much harder access to firearms for civilians still stands.

[MrLaggy]

Actually a fair number of British cops carry guns in the more crime-ridden parts of the country, just not the few you occasionally see patrolling the streets; the armed patrols normally spend their time driving around until they're called for. And I don't know whether they still do (with the current IRA truce) but you used to see cops patrolling with body armor and MP5s at any major airport around London.

The myth of unarmed police in the UK is just that... a myth.

[LCJr.]

Actually I thought of adding "My country doesn't let me" or something like that to the Never category but am under the impression that most Euro countries except the UK allow some form of gun ownership even if only shotguns. Guess I should have added Law Enforcement to the Armed Forced category too.

From what I've been reading(don't know if its true) it seems more and more police in the UK are being issued guns and body armor, looks like the nightstick carrying bobby is on the way out:(

Anyway heres the ones I've own, owned or shot and can remember anyway.

AR15, Ruger Mini-14
Remington700 .270 + .22-250
asst'd shotguns all guages and types. Anyone remember JC Higgins?
9mm Star BKM, can't make fun of the Llama guy:)
asst'd .45ACP's Colts, imitation Colts and a nice S&W
asst'd .38 revolvers
asst'd .380 autos
9mm Taurus Model92F, licensed copy of Beretta M9
SKS one of the Chinese ones($99US), made out of scrap iron and a recycled telephone pole for a stock. But it shot reasonbably well and never jammed so looks ain't everything:)

Ungodly amount of .22's. Favs were my first gun a H&R 922 revolver I was given when I was 13:) The Ruger 10-22, Winchester 9422 leveraction and Charter Arms AR-7 are my favorite rifles out of all of them. One of my cousins had a Ppsh-50(?) that was a .22LR takeoff on the russian Ppsh-41 complete with 50rd drum. That gun was fun to shoot, the drum made for a nice bipod substitute, hint hint INF team.

asst'd blackpowder rifles and pistols. Best of the bunch was the .36 Colt Sheriff's model. That one handled like a modern revolver, maybe the first to have that flawless Colt balance that made the SAA so popular.

[vincenzo_og]

Nightstick bobby on the way out?!

I live in the Uk and i'm pretty sure they have just started usin nightsticks and telescopic batons, the truncheon weilding bobby is the one on the way out.

Also sadly i have never shot a gun (i have handled an empty assault-rifle) but i was so young i can't remember wot it was. I remember there was a penny in the magazine so it would fire and the bolt would return if u know what i mean.

[jaunty]

I've only ever fired 1 gun. A .30-06 bolt action of unknown make or model.

I have handled a Steyr AUG (so uncomfortable) and a Glock17, though, i haven't fired either :(

[Spooge]

I had that same model... 9mm Taurus Model92F that you did/do LCJr.

It's the only gun I have owned, and kept it for roughly four years when I was doing a lot of backwoods four-wheeling up in the Tennessee mountains. "Ya don't go into them there mountains unless you be a packen somethen!" This 80 year old man told me that the first day I was up there. hehehe...

I have shot a few other models but primarily have only use 9MM's.

I also prefer the durability of the Glock but do not care for the grip. A Browning 9MM(not sure of model anymore) was the most comfortable that I shot.

ahhh memories

[Nick_Drake]

I've never even held a gun. My dad used to have some hunting rifles when I was a kid but I was way too afraid to go near them (plus he would have eviscerated me). The closest I have come to a holding a gun is a pellet gun.
I have no need or desire to ever touch one. Virtual guns are enough for me.

[Antedeluge]

LOL@Funkstyles!!

Yeah, he took my mom hunting in Alaska. She shot a grizzly bear and a mountain goat. My mom kicks ass. She's 58 years old and still playing on the church softball team. (One of our best female batters too by the way!)

[Colte[LiveWireFreak]]

hmmmm, couple of air guns [I have one that you need an FAC for] .22 cal, 303. cal, 306. cal, 308.cal, Socom[yep, like the one in INF] err, lord bunker might consider paintball guns firearms, and thats it, I think.

[HanD_of_DarKNesS]

I've never even touched a real firearm (or even a realistic replica like an airsoft). I don't see it as a big problem though. I hope to learn more about them, and start a collection eventually for use the productions I do (I'm getting into TV/Film).

[Kamicosmos]

Well, I am a certified gun nut. Here is my personal collection that I own:

My baby:
Deset Eagle Mark I Two-Tone finish
Stainless Steel frame (not the alloy)
.357 Magnum

Ruger Mark II Gov't Competition Model .22lr
6" slab-side barrel, stainless finish
Tasco 30mm ProPoint Dot Scope

Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum
stainless, 5 1/2" barrell

Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt
case colored and blued, faux-ivory grips
5 1/4" barrell

Beretta 96FS .40S&W blued, of course

Beretta Model 21 Bobcat .22lr (pocket gun) blued

AMT Automag II 22WMR (.22 Magnum) 6" barrel, stainless

1916 German Luger, 9mm war trophy

1944 Japanese Nambu 8mm Nambu war trophy

T/C Contender single shot
w/ 12" .44 Magnum barrel stainless custom from SSK
4x Tasco scope

Marlin 1894s lever-action rifle, .44 Mag

Marlin Model 60 22lr, stainless Bushnell 3-9x 40mm scope

1944 Lee Enfield .303 bolt action (British Army Rifle)

Yup, I's gots me some guns...

you can see them at my website:
http://www.geocities.com/kamicosmos
(I know, not all of the links work, will fix them this weekend)

Kamikazi

[LordKhaine]

Fired some tiny shotgun ages ago when I was clay pidgeon shoting, but I wouldnt count that as really firing a gun in the the sense you're talking about. You cant even get a 9mm handgun in the uk, and im glad of it.

[LCJr.]

Oops I left out my Japanese Type38 Arisaka carbine. Sold it though as ammo was hard to find and expensive.

Hows the Vaquero shoot? I was looking at couple of those last week as a matter of fact. Its just a question of when and if it will be .45LC or .44-40:) I've always like SAA revolvers, got hooked on my dads little RG66 .22Magnum 7/8scale Colt knock off.

[PROMAGNUM]

HK USP
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/0600/640.jpg><p>
SKS (Russian)
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/0300/326.jpg>
<p>
GLOCK 23: .40 S&W
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/1000/1080.jpg>
<p>
HK MP5A5
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/0700/777.jpg>
<p>
MAC-10 9mm
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/orig/mac10.jpg>
<p>
UZI SMG
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/0600/613.jpg>
<p>
S&W .357
<img src=http://www.securityarms2.com/20010315/pics/0800/817.jpg><P>

and a few other sniper rifles that I dont remember the names, also a 12 guage. Although I dont own any.

[Kamicosmos]

Originally posted by LCJr.
Hows the Vaquero shoot? I was looking at couple of those last week as a matter of fact. Its just a question of when and if it will be .45LC or .44-40:)

I like it! It's a Ruger, so it's heavy and tough as hell, you won't wear it out! Looks just like a Colt, shoots as good as a Colt, costs a hell of a lot less than the Colt!
I got the .45 cause I *had* to have a .45 Colt-chambered Cowboy gun.
As far as accuracy, mine is pretty good. shoots a bit low and to the right...I think the right tendancy is me though...seems like all my guns tend to shoot to the right! hehehe, but it is fun. I reload my own ammo, and the .45 is alot like a .44 in that aspect...tons of different loads to play around with!

Pick one up. No collection would be complete without a classic sixgun!

Kamikazi

[Iceman]

I'll list calaber's insted of rifles and pistols (Too many)-
.22 LR
.22 Mag
.22 Hornet
.22 Taranah Hornet
22-250
.220 Swift
.224 Weatherby Mag
.222
.223
.243
.257 Roberts
.260
.270
.280
.303
.416
6mm PPC
7mm Remington Mag (gotta love this caliber)
8mm Remington Mag
9mm Luger
.44 Mag
.308
7.62X39mm
.300 Win mag
.300 Remington Ultra Magnum
.300 Weatherby Mag
.458 Win Mag (My favorite deer rifle)
.270 Weatherby Mag
Assorted Wild cats
12g shotty
16g shotty
20g shotty
.410 shotty
6.5X55mm
30/06
30-30
.375 H&H Mag
.35 Whelen
.35 Whelen Improved
22-250 Improved

There is more but i'm too tried.

Iceman.

[Sebu_NZ]

That quite a list Iceman

how long you been shooting?

[Trak]

Yeah Iceman. That is alot of experience without a doubt. I only know one person that has that kind of experience, he was my main shooting buddy before I moved and he was ex military. Are you a hunter/gun enthusiast or ex military? Heh, prolly both, like my pal...

[asmodeus]

shot only once, in a summer camp (wish I could have shot more than a few round...)

it was a one shot 22 rifle

if I have enuff cash one day (when i'll be big:) i'll buy a semi of these

<.458 Win Mag
my dad has one, but it's all rusted up and the sights are missing;)

[Tommy Atkins]

Right. Many years ago, when I was at school and knew no better (still don't), I joined the Combined Cadet Force (the British Army's kindergarten). I got the chance to play with live ammo in...

Lee Enfield .303 (can't remember the model, but it was a truly magnificent rifle & I can remember the hassle of cleaning it, as well as the hassle of running with it for the 'march & shoot' competitions)
Bren
Sten (very 'A Bridge Too Far'- I WAS Richard Burton)
GPMG(YEEEHAAAAA!)
SLR (kicked like a mule)
.22 target rifle & pistol

Soz for the lack of detail, but it was a long long time ago.

and cos I was in the shooting team, we got to play with the stripped down cadet version (no burst mode)of the SA80 early- the next year, live firing with it was stopped because there were 2 misfires, leaving people with damaged eyes.

Jesus- they used to let 14-15 year olds loose on army live firing ranges with automatic weapons in the UK... :cool:


Since then, I have realised that people with guns kill people, and intend to steer as far away from the real thing as possible- which is easy in England.

[MrLaggy]

Originally posted by LordKhaine
You cant even get a 9mm handgun in the uk, and im glad of it.

Anyone in the UK who's willing to break the law and put in a few days' effort can get any gun they want from a .22 handgun to an Uzi, and probably for a lower price than when they were legal. The only people prevented from owning guns are the law-abiding majority; that is, the people who are least likely to abuse them (before you say anything, neither Hamilton nor Ryan were law-abiding and neither should have qualified for a firearms certificate had the police been doing their job... and, in any case, Ryan had an illegal Thompson and an illegal handgun, so it wouldn't have made any difference to his murderous urges). Not to mention the tons of explosives, assault rifles, heavy machineguns, rockets and the like the the IRA managed to accumulate, despite their illegality.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the British government start trying to ban games like Inf before too long because they've banned almost all guns in an attempt to eliminate the 'gun culture and now they're talking about even banning replica guns and requiring licenses for air guns, yet the armed crime rates keep going up. What other scapegoat do they have left?

[billlee]

Originally posted by Tommy Atkins
Jesus- they used to let 14-15 year olds loose on army live firing ranges with automatic weapons in the UK... :cool:

Since then, I have realised that people with guns kill people, and intend to steer as far away from the real thing as possible- which is easy in England.

So why aren't you dead if guns cause people to kill people? As you said, teenagers were allowed to use full automatic weapons on the range - so what has made them so untrustworthy now?

We even had a 25m rifle range at our school and we used it under teacher supervision. These days this would likely be the cause of an armed police raid if someone heard about it...

Bill Lee

[Colte[LiveWireFreak]]

To Mr. Atkens: People with guns don't kill people; stupid people with guns kill people. I have nothing against you, and I am not trying to be a jerk or anything, but that attitude you had there is what is causeing the problem with soccer moms today, and gun control persons, I haven't fired much of a variy of guns, but I do know the ones I own now, and it seems to me that I haven't killed anyone with them, so I guess that means that I'm not stupid.

[devilmonkey]

Hey, I used to have a type 98 Arisaka too, I also sold mine due to ammo costs. Could only get new shells from Norma for $40 a box, kinda bugged me that it cost $2 every time I pulled the trigger. Current inventory includes:
93 Mauser 7mm with custom stock (my baby)
DAC 394 (Sig knock-off but actually a good piece)
old Winchester and Stevens .22's
Remington 1100 12ga.
and , my wife has a Browning 9mm (can't remember the model, the double action one from a few years back).

[Iceman]

I'm only 15 and i have been shooting since i was 4 (a .44 Mag L/A), And i got my first gun when i was 6 (A .22LR single shot Lithgrow)

Iceman.

[Iceman]

oh, and i mainly hunt :)

Iceman.

[LCJr.]

Originally posted by devilmonkey
Hey, I used to have a type 98 Arisaka too, I also sold mine due to ammo costs. Could only get new shells from Norma for $40 a box, kinda bugged me that it cost $2 every time I pulled the trigger. Current inventory includes:
93 Mauser 7mm with custom stock (my baby)
DAC 394 (Sig knock-off but actually a good piece)
old Winchester and Stevens .22's
Remington 1100 12ga.
and , my wife has a Browning 9mm (can't remember the model, the double action one from a few years back).


I think your right on it being a Type 98 and not 38. The number refers to years after the Meiji restoration and confuses a poor westerner like me:) Anyway it was 6.5mm Japanese and likewise only ammo I could find was Norma. When I got rid of it ammo was $22US for a box of 20 and going up every year. Never was able to track any reloading dies for it either, just didn't seem to be a popular caliber.

edit>Had to dig out some books and it is the type38. Kinda wish I would have kept it, but the serial numbers didn't match so limited collectors value. Only paid $25US for it though, cheapest gun I ever bought.

[LCJr.]

I asked everyone to keep their opinions on gun control to themselves and you don't seem to be capable of doing that. If you want to debate gun control start another thread don't bring it here.

[DLL]

I've fired a lot of my friends guns, but never owned one. I've shot a 9mm Barretta, Benelli shotgun, Desert Eagle (I think it was a 44), various .22 caliber rifles and pistols, a .45 revolver. I love shooting, and luckily I have friends with lots o' guns. But I haven't gone shooting with them in a long time.

[Tommy Atkins]

Originally posted by LCJr.
I asked everyone to keep their opinions on gun control to themselves and you don't seem to be capable of doing that.

Apologies- my bad.
Memo- keep afterthoughts to self. :)

[Trak]

Geez Iceman, I am twice your age but you have like 10 times the experience with guns :) I keep forgetting that you Aussies love your guns just as much as us Americans. I guess that is part of the heritage of being a frontier country. It's great that your parents ( obviously ) have spent the time to teach you about firearms. They apparently trust and respect you, that is a good thing. Keep shooting and stay safe :)

[Cardinal]

I'm also a gun nut. I own these firearms:

Sig-Sauer P229 .40 S&W

Ruger Bisley .45 Colt

Heckler & Koch Mark 23 with a Brugger & Thomet Impulse IIA Sound Suppressor

Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun

HS Precision Heavy Tactical Rifle in .300 Win.Mag (technically, I don't own it yet. It's in the mail, will receive it next week).

SIG SG 551 SWAT semi-auto only, with a Brugger & Thomet Type G suppressor.



I plan to get the following firearms in the near future:


A Brugger & Thomet suppressor for the HS Precision HTR

EDM Arms Windrunner .50 BMG

A .357 mag. Revolver

A Glock 20 10mm or high-cap 1911 for IPSC Standard. (depending on my budget at the time)

Semi-auto shotgun, will then sell my 870. Either a Benelli M1 Super 90 or the new M4 Super 90

.22 LR rifle with suppressor.

And finally, if the german government will allow export, the HK SL9SD.

[JKJK]

In the UK, 13 year old can fire a rifle. I fired this old fuly manual gun @ aircadets. Made a little pop sound. Also U can advance up to other guns, more modern, witha magasine.

[MetalMickey]

MrLaggy: I think the point which Khaine was making when he said he was glad that handguns were unavailable, is that he is glad that the UK doesnt have the same gun-culture as the US.

I think you'll find 99% of europeans agree with him.

[DarwinStorm]

I've fired alot of weapons, so I'll list only the most exotic, and fun.

M60 (hell of a kick, fun to shoot)
MP5 H&K w/ supressor (loved this weapon, wish I had one)

M-16 (in the army, what can I say.)

and a m-16 mounted grenad launcher (definitley a kick)

Watch a couple of AT-4 fired up close, very impressive.

I'd love to fire a saw and a M-24 sniper system

[Trak]

The point is that these are comments on gun control. The original post requests that there be no comments on gun control, that he dosn't want this to turn into that debate.

[Liquid Night]

Only fired a gun once, on a shooting range in Thailand.
I fired:
A Remington Magnum Express shotgun (think it said LE special on side)
A semi-auto .22 replica AK-47 with 30rd mag. (wierd I know)
A crappy little .22 pistol.
A Colt .38 Super. (nice)
A Colt .45 semi.

[Hadmar]

I shoot a flare with this. :D
This does count! lamo

[Cunubelin]

The .22 was kinda fun, shooting cans and stuff out in the woods behind my friends house...
Also when I was younger I was a member in this shooting club and there I got to fire this nice bolt-action rifle.
A Mauser model 1898 or something... It almost dislocated my shoulder the first time. After that I learned to seat the butt of the rifle firmly against my shoulder... OUCH :)

"Beeg badaBOOM"

PANG
C.

[LordKhaine]

Originally posted by LCJr.
I asked everyone to keep their opinions on gun control to themselves and you don't seem to be capable of doing that. If you want to debate gun control start another thread don't bring it here.

Me bad :(

[LCJr.]

Thanks guys :)

[BuckFutt]

Well I just fired several pistols for my first time this last weekend at a firing range with some friends. Too bad they didn't have a DE for rent cuz I wanted to know how it handled. Anyways heres what I tried out:

H&K USP45 (the one I chose)
Beretta 92F
Glock something (I think it was the 17)
Walther P99
CZ 75 something (not sure which variant)

I felt that the CZ felt the best handling of the bunch (it was heavier with less climb), but I still liked the USP even though I couldnt hit $hit with it. That thing had quite a bit of kick and the flash was pretty. I think I'm just biased towards H&K tho. Walther was pretty nice too.

[asmodeus]

walthers looks like good guns... why would Bond use one if it was crap?;)

[BuckFutt]

Yep, I still like the PPK tho over the newer P99s and etc. It still just looks so cool and its been around before WWII. Damn! BTW (somewhat off topic), anyone know what the conversion of 9mm -> caliber is?

[The-Doc]

Whoa...

You guys have a lot of experience with weapons..
I'm 16, and where I live, if the police even SUSPECT you might have a gun, they will raid your house, and then get a forensic team to check your clothes.

Hell, the nearest Gun club to me is 4 hours (give or take an hour if the traffics bad).

But I don't want to boast about size or anything, but if you REALLY want to make an impression with a gun, use a Challenger 2's Main Gun.

[Hypenotist]

My friend came over one day and pulled out a 22 handgun from his pocket, it was about the size of my hand. It had an 8 round clip and I have no idea what the manufacturer of this thing was. He said the ammo were 22 shorts. Anyway We both took turns shooting spray paint bottles off a fence. When I was about 9 I did some skeet shooting with a 410 rifle. Shot an armadillo with a 22 semi-auto in Texas and had it mounted holding a lone star beer can, my dog ate the mount a week later. Summer camp 12 yrs- more 22 semi target practice. I don't think I've ever shot a gun that had recoil except for maybe that little hand gun and that didn't have much. Just about everyone I know deer hunts but I don't. I hunt them with paintball markers though :) the friends I mean. Thats about it.

[{GD}Ghost]

You forgot to include a category for those of us who have been law enforcement officers.

I have fired many weapons as a law enforcement officer, including an MP5. (The police version: semi/3 round burst). I've also fired an old fashioned Thompson auto (Tommy Gun). and a few others.

[LCJr.]

Originally posted by BuckFutt
Yep, I still like the PPK tho over the newer P99s and etc. It still just looks so cool and its been around before WWII. Damn! BTW (somewhat off topic), anyone know what the conversion of 9mm -> caliber is?

Almost identical to the .357 Magnum and .38 Special approx. .355inches.

Most US guns measure the caliber of an unfired bullet while Europeans use the bore measurement. For what its worth Ruger used to make a Blackhawk .357 that you could purchase a 9mm cylinder for.

[Barnes]

I am a cop in Baltimore, and I have used my Glock 17 twice in the line of duty. I have to say this game is very realistic. I also served 8 years in the military. I try to shoot every type of gun I can get my hands on!!!

[MrLaggy]

I don't own any guns thanks to the scumbags in the British government, but I've shot quite a few here and abroad; off the top of my head:

black powder percussion pistol
matchlock musket
flintlock musket
blunderbuss (kind of a black powder sawn-off shotgun)
black powder mortar (if you count it as a gun 8-))
few .22 autoloading & single-shot pistols
couple of .38 revolvers
couple of 9mm pistols
.44 magnum long-barrel
.44 magnum snubbie
.45 auto
several .22 rifles
.223 bolt-action rifle
12-gauge pump and autoloading shotguns, buckshot and slug

I also had my IPSC practical pistol competition license for a short while before the government banned them. I'm sorely tempted to find a range in America which will rent AR-15s and the like and take a shooting holiday sometime...

[BuckFutt]

Thx LC. Now I know and knowing is half the battle.

[GunGirl]

i used to own a Glock 20, now that was a good gun, 10 mm, really powerful as well, but i sold it a few months ago because i was in a pinch for money :(

[billlee]

Originally posted by asmodeus
walthers looks like good guns... why would Bond use one if it was crap?;)

Well, Ian Fleming wrote James Bond being forced to give up his
Beretta .25 calibre pistol by his boss, 'M'. So it as far as this mythical character is concerned, the Walther wasn't his first choice of weapon...

Bill Lee

ObOntopic:
Fired:
- .22 pistols
- .357 S&W pistol
- 9mm Browning Hi Power
- .22 rifles
- 5.56x45 M16A1
- .30 M1 carbine
- .303 SMLEs
- 7.62x51 L1A1 SLR
- (legal) explosives work
Attended live firing demos of:
- M60 GPMG
- G3 coaxial MG on Leopard I
- 105mm Main gun on Leopard I:
--- APDS
--- HESH (HEP)
- 106mm Recoilless Rifle
- Milan anti-tank missile
- 76mm on M113(MRV):
--- HESH (HEP)
- M2 HMGs
- 81mm mortars
- flamethrowers
- M18 Claymores
- M16 'Bouncing Betty' mines
- Artillery firing delayed action, instant, and airburst rounds
- 20mm gatling gun on F111
- various bombing runs with up to and including 2000lb LGB
- mortar simulators
- landmine simulators
PS: had a lot of sympathy for the victims and family of the recent fatal bombing accident in Saudi Arabia. It's one thing you are hoping is not going to happen when you are watching these live bombing demos. I personally have seen bombs hit the wrong hill - though fortunately far, far away from the hill where I was standing.

[asmodeus]

yeah, but I guess he really got a liking to it... I think the best feature for him is the size...

7 bullet clip is kinda odd;)

[Zundfolge]

Yep, I still like the PPK tho over the newer P99s and etc. It still just looks so cool and its been around before WWII. Damn! BTW (somewhat off topic), anyone know what the conversion of 9mm -> caliber is?

There is 2* common types of 9mm pistol ammo; the 9mm Parabellum which is 9x19mm (that's what people commonly refer to as the 9mm, or the 9mm Lugar or just 9x19, it's what's in the Barreta and the P99 for example) and the 9mm Kurtz (AKA the .380 auto, .380ACP, 9mm Corto, 9mm Browning Short) which is 9x17mm That's what the PPK chambers (there's also a .32 version, which is also known as 7.65mm Browning short, or .32ACP, it's 7.65x17mm ).

Both 9mm rounds are approx. 9mm in diamater, but there's a difference in length.

To say that a 9mm and a .357Mag are even close to the same power would be incorrect. Remember that 9mm is the diameter of the bullet but says nothing about the length of the case, so the longer case of the .357Mag packs in a LOT more powder.


*actualy there's 2 other types that are not as common, the 9x18mm "9mm Markarov" and the 9x22mm "9mm Largo" but for the sake of keeping things simple I didn't plan on bringing them up...then I remembered that there are folk like ShakKen and Gryphon here that would probably correct me :)
Isn't there also a 9x21mm too?

[Cardinal]

There is a lot of 9mm cartridges.
The most common is the 9mm Luger/Parabellum like Zundfolge said.

The other I know of is:

9mm Ultra
9mm Browning Long
9mm Glisenti
9x21mm this cartridge was designed for such counrties like Italy were it's illegal for civilians to own firearms in military cailbers like 9x19mm.
9mm Bayard Long
9mm Steyr
9mm Federal
9mm Mauser
9mm Winchester Magnum
.380 Automatic (9mm Kurtz/9x17/380 ACP)
9x23 Winchester
9x25 Dillon
plus a lot more wildcats.....


9mm Luger bullets have a diameter of .355, while .357 magnum have a diameter of .357

BTW
The best reference book I've found about calibers is "Cartridges of the World". by Frank C. Barnes

[Gandolf8]

Of course i've used guns. I have balls. I just lost all my Nerf darts....

[LCJr.]

The 9x21mm is the 9mm Ultra also sometimes called the 9mm Police. Was supposed to be a more powerful alternative to the Parabellum. Don't know how it did in Europe but as far as I know its never been used here in the states.

[Cardinal]

The 9mm Ultra and the 9x21 is not the same cartidge, according to Cart. of the World 7ed.

Quote:
"The 9mm Ultra was designed for the Walther PP Super semi-auto pistol intoduced in 1972-73. (.....)
The 9mm Ultra is 1 mm longer than the 380 Auto and 1mm shorter than the 9mm Luger...."
Meaning it's case lenght is 18mm.


The 9x21:
Quote:
"Faced with a strong demand for a powerfull, semi-automatic pistol in a non-military caliber, the 9x21 was developed in the mid-1980s."

[LCJr.]

Your absolutely right, my bad :(

When Nikolai Federovich Makarov conceived his pistol, he ignored the specifications for a 7.62 or 9mm caliber, and built it around a new cartridge, the 9x18 Makarov. Some speculate that the 9x18 Makarov was simply an adaptation of the German pre-WWII 9mm Ultra. However, there are important differences between the two. The 9mm Ultra is simply a lengthened version of the tapered 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) with a standard 9mm (.356") bullet. The 9x18 Makarov uses a nearly cylindrical case and 9.2 mm (.363"-.364") bullet. See picture of various 9mm case dimensions. The result is a cartridge that offers performance nearing the 9mm Parabellum in a simple blow-back pistol.