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View Full Version : Hear and see like humans. Not bots.


DarkBls
17th Apr 2001, 12:44 PM
When I read this thread (http://forums.planetunreal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41099) started by my buddy HoD, it gave me two ideas:


If you fire in a very tight and metallic area or if someone if firing just too close from your hears or you are the victim of a mighty grenade, why do you think about adding a sound perception modification ?
Like deafness and whistling hearing ?

What do you think too, about a light acclimation delay for your eyes, when you come from a bright light area and you enter into a dark one...
In RL you are not able to see anything till your eyes are completely dilated on.


I think these two features can improve the general realism.

Sebu_NZ
17th Apr 2001, 06:56 PM
The deaf thing is really god, once flashbangs are implemented (if they will be now) that would rock, also with 'nades and stuff it would add to the, wild spraying and insane 'nade throwing, although stupid in most cases it will enable you to "shock" your enemy then run in and then finish them off when they are stunned. Kinda of like what flashbang do but it would be good to see other things be able to have the same/similar effect (if, of course, it possible/probable IRL).

The_Fur
17th Apr 2001, 07:04 PM
well it has my vote... anything to increase the levelof realism. BTW DarkBis you might want to check out operationFlashpoint itallready uses such a souns system.

Beagle_One
17th Apr 2001, 07:30 PM
how about shining your flashlight in someone's eyes in dark places? to blind him?

HanD_of_DarKNesS
17th Apr 2001, 08:52 PM
I like the deafness ides. I think simply deafening the player for a short time, and then having the sound slowly return would work well. I had my headphones doing wierd things yesterday while playing online, and I found it VERY distracting when my sound would cut out for 3-4 seconds, before returning.

As for light dialation, I'm all for it if it can be done in a realistic manner, and in a way in which players couldn't code or cheat around it (same goes for the sound idea).

Beagle_One
17th Apr 2001, 09:13 PM
I'd bet that the problem with blinding someone with flashbang or even just a flashlight is that you can't close your eyes in INF. So if a bright light source comes in your sight, you have no choice but look at it(unless you can turn away from it). Oh yeah, I guess you could always turn away from it. silly me:D

LCJr.
17th Apr 2001, 11:07 PM
Sounds like good ideas but in the interest of playability over realism I would prefer loss of hearing over a "ringing ears" soundeffect. That could get annoying fast.

Kuroshio Apocal
18th Apr 2001, 12:32 AM
Much like the real "ringing ears syndrome".

Sebu_NZ
18th Apr 2001, 12:41 AM
I agree that a "ringing" sound (although prabably realistic) would get very annonying.

Dangerous10K
18th Apr 2001, 01:46 AM
yea it would drive my fish nuts since i blast infiltration already w/my 200 watt stereo and 150 watt ten inch sub

The_Fur
18th Apr 2001, 03:04 AM
well i guesss that's why people don't like to stand near flashbangs that much... because the effects are "annoying" (to say the least). It's the entire point of a flashbang.

so bring on the ringing sound... if you don't like it... BETTER RUN FROM IT!!! :)

Sebu_NZ
18th Apr 2001, 04:13 AM
Yes true but like what LCJr said

perhaps this is when playability should over realism. I mean just the loss of sound is (I dear say) quasi realistic (moe than other I might add)

The_Fur
18th Apr 2001, 06:40 AM
And the loss of sound is not anoying? In this case it is just a question which every player personally finds more anoying (as in "the other thread") In this case I think the more realistic option should take the overhand. (You are going to be anoyed anyway so why not be realistically anoyed? :D).

JaFO
18th Apr 2001, 07:01 AM
:( I can allready see the complaints :
- the sounds do not work or are weird after you've fired your gun for a while, fix that bug :mad: ;)

- some people already complain about the grenades being abused now, I wonder what they say if they catch a couple of flashbangs ...

Besides : since most people are deaf already (or have a low-budget soundcard), they are most likely to miss those clues.

// btw :
How do real soldiers/swat-team handle those loud noises in buildings ?

The_Fur
18th Apr 2001, 12:31 PM
well i didn't hear anybody complaining about OFP's way of handling combat sounds... and it handles em exactly like this.
A soldier handles the sound of gunfire no different then your ears handle the sound of firecrackers at newyear.

Loud bang=reduced sound sensitivity, simple as that.

After all soldiers are humans as well.. (well most of em anyway :D).

LCJr.
18th Apr 2001, 07:10 PM
If you really, really, really want realism every gun currently featured in the game will cause your ears to start ringing indoors or out. Even a little 9mm pistol will make your ears ring outside after a couple of shots. And it doesn't just go away either once it starts ringing it lasts for several hours after your done. I have first hand experience with the stupidity of shooting without hearing protection and the hearing damage to prove it.

Anyway I think the majority of the people would find a real ringing sound highly annoying to say the least. Not sure how many people would care for just for loss of hearing without a soundeffect. If the INF team really gets set on adding a feature like please make the soundeffect so it can be switched on or off. It would save me the trouble of opening the soundfile and deleting/replacing it:)

Oh yeah and Fur a 5.56mm produces a few more decibels than a firecracker.

Beagle_One
18th Apr 2001, 07:30 PM
I think that ringing in the ears would be quite annoying playing INF. Maybe only flashbangs affecting my hearing would be alright as long as I just "lose" hearing instead of "ringing".
Losing your hearing after shooting guns in a game is just plain ridiculous to me(I'm not talking about RL).

RogueLeader
18th Apr 2001, 07:40 PM
Ringing in the ears would be annoying...so add it!!!
It will encourage people to stop using explosives except when necessary.

billlee
18th Apr 2001, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Beagle_One
Losing your hearing after shooting guns in a game is just plain ridiculous to me(I'm not talking about RL).

Why is it ridiculous? Why shouldn't you lose your hearing if you are having a firefight in an enclosed space? Are you saying that you need to be an L3373 superman, immune to laws of physics and physiology to be able to play an enjoyable game? Deafness in firefights happens - are you saying that it doesn't?

Personally, I would find a simulation of actual ringing of the ears to be too realistic and annoying without adding benefits. Just dampening the audio would be a better option. Since we won't have realistic silent hand communications in INF, even this realistic dampening may hamper team communications too much.

Bill Lee

Beagle_One
18th Apr 2001, 08:08 PM
Well, just what it says in the parentheses "I'm not talking about RL". I haven't shot real guns in an enclosed space, so I'll have to take your word for it.

BUT in a game, a ringing in your ears or deafening them would spoil the sound department. Given that a ringing in your ears would last for hours, cool sound effects would not matter in INF once the shooting starts, although that may be realistic.
But does that mean all the RL troops go deaf once they start engaging in a fire fight? Don't they have any kind of ear protection whatsoever? How do they use radio if they can't hear? Or do they just go half-deaf for a while?

Sebu_NZ
18th Apr 2001, 08:14 PM
Rock on Bruce Lee...errr I mean Bill Lee


I to agree that it would possible stop using a 'nade in every situation, but somehow I see it as being really annonying.

But It could be done right, loud ringing at first then slowly fades to quite then the quite stays for awhile.

Think of how many posts in the suggestions, REMOVE RNGING ME L33T S\/P3RM4N!

The_Fur
19th Apr 2001, 02:21 AM
Oh yeah and Fur a 5.56mm produces a few more decibels than a firecracker.

depends on what firecracker you are talking about :D

Tuttle INF
19th Apr 2001, 02:35 AM
This is definitely a good idea IMO.

I remember I thought the ringing after an explosion was one of the best things in Delta Force.

I'm all for this. I can't see a way it would hurt playability. It would be a very nice step in the realism department.

billlee
19th Apr 2001, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Beagle_One
I haven't shot real guns in an enclosed space, so I'll have to take your word for it.

But does that mean all the RL troops go deaf once they start engaging in a fire fight? Don't they have any kind of ear protection whatsoever? How do they use radio if they can't hear? Or do they just go half-deaf for a while?

Black Hawk Down, Chapter 10:
Nelson saw Twombly mouth the words "You okay"?
...
Twombly had fired his SAW about two feet in front of Nelson's face, so close that his cheeks and nose had been singed by the muzzle heat. The blast had hammered his eardrums, blinded him, and his head was still ringing.

"That hurt," Nelson complained. "I can't hear and I can't see. Don't you ever f*cking shoot your weapon off that close to me again!"

Just then another Somali took a shot at them and Twombly returned fire with his rifle directly over Nelson's head. After that, Nelson wouldn't hear a thing for many hours.
The purpose of the quote above is to show you that you will lose some or all of your hearing in a firefight if you don't have hearing protection. The problem is that you need your hearing to detect infiltration into your positions and monitor your own sound created. As a result, many people make a decision that they are better off deaf than dead and forgo hearing protection. Artillerymen wear hearing protection even during battle since they are usually not under direct threat of CQB.

Another example:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2000/0727/north4.htm
They [British security forces] seized a Barrett Light 50 rifle - one of the most powerful weapons used by the IRA and capable of firing a bullet at nearly three times' the speed of sound. Soldiers often thought they had heard an explosion when a shot had been fired.

Caraher [the Barrett shooter] wore ear protectors to prevent perforation to his eardrums when he shot a victim.

http://www.att-tactical.com/flashbang.html
OMNI BLAST 100 Diversion Device [FlashBang] Decibel Output 170-175db at 5ft

Eardrum rupture can occur at 130-150 decibels, and pain starts at 120 decibels.

Just shooting in a covered bay next to a high velocity rifle can be unsettling, even with adequate hearing protection. Shooting next to somone else firing their .375 H&H is somewhat startling (from experience).

The reasons battle's don't stop as soon as the firing breaks out is that soldiers are taught to communicate in many non-verbal ways, not only to keep noise down before firing breaks out, but so that they can also still effectively communicate throughout a battle. Unfortunately many of these methods are not available in INF. Radio operators like to try to keep away from really loud noises, otherwise, yes they can go deaf.

I don't think I'd like to see an INF battle where everyone becomes deaf for the next few hours, but a sped up hearing return helps with the time concatination that occurs in INF but not in Real Life™. In Real Life™ most of a battle is spent waiting for something to happen, which is less desirable inside a game.

Bill Lee

The_Fur
19th Apr 2001, 02:05 PM
This is where if would do good to "borrow" the handsignal system from the game Seal team.

Whern you used a hand signal it would replicate that signal oin a small box in the lower middle of your screen.
It worked great as well being informative on actual military hand-commands.

BobTheFearlessFish
19th Apr 2001, 03:46 PM
now thats an idead Fur, handsignals could become confusing and hard to see, but if an icon appeared in the hud when you saw someone making them it would be good, maybe even a meaning, though that may be considred unrealistic

Beagle_One
19th Apr 2001, 06:41 PM
To billlee,

I got the idea. But do you really want that realism? Then we'll have to have the option of wearing ear protections, and that's another complication in coding, I'd bet.

IMO, it'll just be too much to worry about in a game.