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Moridin_121
22nd Mar 2001, 06:21 AM
Ok, this is my opinion, all the people who say they're hardcore gamers because they play one game well, or even two... try and find a life, you're not a gamer just because you can play games well, you ahve to love the games, respect the games, curse at the games occassionally, if i had a faster connection, i would challenge the people who call themselves "gamers" to DM, and if they could hold their own, and still enjoy the game, well, they're gamers, i consider myself to be a gamer, the only genre i don't particularly like is Turn-Based Strategy, because it's too slow, and there isn't much strategy involved, other than that, i enjoy all kinds of games, no matter the graphics (although i do enjoy good eye-candy) or development, sure, there are some crappy games out there, but i still find good points. now that that's over, i have a song suggestion, get GAMER by Pre Shrunk, they ave sampled the "boom baby" female taunt from UT. which is pretty good, they also have enforcer samples, so getit, it may not be heavy, but it's still good. right. my rant is over, and all you lame gamer wannabes, try and expand your gaming experience.

Robot TinMan|BuF
22nd Mar 2001, 06:39 AM
Not to be rude here or anything, but if Ur a gamer, the connection shouldn't stop ya in challenging others, right?;)

Moridin_121
22nd Mar 2001, 06:45 AM
i would challenge someone, if my ping wasn't so bad, i end up fragging myself because it jumps so bad, over LAN, fine, but until i get a better ISP i can't challenge online.

Swedix
22nd Mar 2001, 06:51 AM
So now when you have give us the definition of a gamer, what do you want?

Moridin_121
22nd Mar 2001, 06:56 AM
i gave you my definition of gamer, it is my opinion of what being a true hardcore gamer is, i think it is the only way you can actually define hardcore gamers, we still enjoy games, even if they're damn hard, or really easy. so there you go, it was my opinion and also my religion.

mobace
22nd Mar 2001, 08:36 AM
add to list: gamers don't take themselves too seriously

SimplyCosmic
22nd Mar 2001, 09:59 AM
I think I'll stick with "one who plays games" to the official definition of the word "gamer".

What you described whould be what we would call a "fanatic". :D



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Kokensu
22nd Mar 2001, 10:27 AM
LOL
I'd have to agree with SC on that point. But I do hear what you're saying. I don't just play UT, I play all kinds of games. I love RPG's , TPS's, and sometimes RTS's. And many other acronyms I can't think of. :D

I_AM{skullface}
22nd Mar 2001, 11:49 AM
You KNOW you're a hardcore game when you use acronyms that are specific to a game.

Just like saying "yeah, I watched DS9" instead of Deep Space Nine" or "TNG just SUCKED as a series" or "that guy was an camper" or "damn bots" or "what an SR whore" etc.

A hardcore gamer can dedicate their time to 1 game, or 30+ games...it doesn't matter, as long as that game has started to creep into their life balance and lingo.

I realized I was a hardcore gamer when I played about 12 hours of Mario64 straight...and then when I was walking to my buddies house I heard bird calls (it was early AM) and I got the chills cause for the love of god they sounded like they were straight outta the game.

I may rant but I never rave.

-I_AM

mobace
22nd Mar 2001, 12:17 PM
i knew ut was my next big game way back when i started dreaming at night that i was playing it

OshadowO
22nd Mar 2001, 01:24 PM
eek what bought this on?
I don't know why you care so much about who calls themselevs a gamer hardcore or otherwise, but I'm sorry dude if you're letting ping stop you from playing you ain't hardcore in my book:p
Unless you ping avg 750 & above...There's a lot of us HPB's out there that play this game with at times extremely bad pings.

WebSlinger
22nd Mar 2001, 03:40 PM
:rolleyes:

Moridin_121
23rd Mar 2001, 05:45 AM
look, my ping is so bad that pong would skip online, if a version existed, it's not that i don't want to, it's the fact that everytime i play i end up fragging myself because i fire at someone and hit the wall at the same time as the missile, almost instantaneously, but if i could play online, i would. ok, another point, does anyone actually know what the term "camper" means? because the amount of "gamers" i've met who seem to think it's exactly the same as a sniper amazes me. but that's beside the point. what i'm talking about? it's the difference between someone who calls themselves a hacker and someone who gets called a hacker by the hacking community, one is just a lame wannabe freak, while the other is a respectable, proficient "hacker". ok? if you get called a gamer by other people who are gamers, well then, that's ok, but if you call yourself a gamer with no other references, then you're nothing other than a spotty-faced, dreaming nerd. sorry, but that's my opinion.
i don't take myself too seriously, but i do take offence at people who call themselves gamers with no other confirmation.

mobace
23rd Mar 2001, 07:43 AM
>but if you call yourself a gamer with no other references<

moridin please post your references, no 'offense' hardy har har har... har har

namu
23rd Mar 2001, 09:43 AM
Wow incoming Flames methink :D

Hmmm Moridin, would call me a hardcore gamer? Because i had a LAN party recently, 0wned everyone at UT, and later some people told me "man you just play too much UT".
Still one of these guys is the Ultimate God of Starcraft (who can beat 7 computers teamed against him :rolleyes:) but sux at UT and CS, in my mind HE is a hardcore gamer, 'cause he masters at least this one game so much i could just dream of being as good at StarCraft.
(BTW i also play Marathon Trilogy ;))

mobace
23rd Mar 2001, 10:04 AM
well i don't think i'm flaming anyone, actually i find the whole thread to be somewhat pretentious and if anyone is being flamed it is appears to be a large number of people that play computer games. computer gamers aren't some kind of elite social group, in fact our general reputation is bad enough without trying to base the definition on the very things that make it a generally highly ostracized 'occupation'.... i wouldn't want to say hobby apparently as that would from previous discussions appear to say i am not a gamer.

I_AM{skullface}
23rd Mar 2001, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Moridin_121
ok, another point, does anyone actually know what the term "camper" means? because the amount of "gamers" i've met who seem to think it's exactly the same as a sniper amazes me.

LOL...the ol' sniper/camper debate. Remember, a camper doesn't have to be using a Sniper Rifle. You can camp the SR room in Peak...just keep doing shock combo's right out the door. Camping just means you are sitting in one space picking off people who are completely and totally unaware of you, giving you and unfair advantage. That's one reason they fixed Facing Worlds, so those newbies wouldn't hide in the shadows and pick you off as you respawned.

If you're good with a sniper rifle, you can MOVE while firing it and you still tag people, then you're just a good player.

We should give the camping issue a rest, it's bound to happen, and those who do know who they are and know why they do it.

Cause they ain't got the skills to play any other way.

Moridin_121
23rd Mar 2001, 11:31 PM
the way i've always defined a camper is someone who hangs around a fairly powerful weapon (redeemer, flak cannon, rocket launcher), and frags anyone who comes near it, replenishing his/her ammo whenever some respawns near him/her. a hardcore gamer is someone who is respected by a number of other people who played him/her and found that he/she was actually very good. ok, references? i don't play people online, so all i have are lan references, there's Matthew Flynn, a.k.a Prophet or Deathjester (names he uses in UT, forums, chat), Daniel Lopez a.k.a MR_BaD_MaN. if you mastered one particular game, then that's fine, it makes you a good player, but not a gamer, it sort of infers that you don't play any other games.

Blistering_Pants
23rd Mar 2001, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by SimplyCosmic
[B]I think I'll stick with "one who plays games" to the official definition of the word "gamer".

To say you have to be nominated by another to justify who you are speaks mountains about the kind of person you are. People play games because the enjoy them and a few impress the heLl out of there peers. They don't however need an a$s like you to tell them if they are cool or not :) When I eat I'm eating therefor I'm an eater I don;t need anyone to tell me hey your pretty good at that whole eating thing, you my friend are an eater.

OshadowO
24th Mar 2001, 12:14 AM
I still think this topic is pointless....but mondrin(sp?sorry) brings up an issue that would be a good debate. Campers. There's no such thing as a camper in my book. The only game type I can think of in which I'd consider hiding even remotely lame is LMS and even then that's pushing it. It'd be frustrating but pushing it. Staying near power ups. Strategy. Staying in your flag room or by a control point...defense. That's just an opinion mind you.

Lotus
24th Mar 2001, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by Blistering_Pants


To say you have to be nominated by another to justify who you are speaks mountains about the kind of person you are. People play games because the enjoy them and a few impress the heLl out of there peers. They don't however need an a$s like you to tell them if they are cool or not :) When I eat I'm eating therefor I'm an eater I don;t need anyone to tell me hey your pretty good at that whole eating thing, you my friend are an eater.

lol....i like that eating analogy :)

mobace
24th Mar 2001, 01:48 PM
i have always thought of camping as staying in the close vicinity of highly-sought after pickups. i don't find sniping in and of itself whether you move or not to be camping... i suppose if you snipe and camp it would be like logically 'or'ing the two, such that you would be a camper in that case. or maybe i'm biased since i favor sniper rifles.

Moridin_121
31st Mar 2001, 07:57 AM
look, if you hang around a powerup/weapon which is highly sought after by other players (shield belt/redeemer) and frag anyone who comes near it, you are a camper, it's not strategy, strategy would be getting a sniper rifle and finding a perfect spot, overlooking a hallway, on a high ledge, like the tower on phobos, that is a prime sniping position, there are also no powerups/weapons in view, except for the damage amplifier. and as for the nomination thing, i think we got sidetracked, what i meant initially was people who call themselves hardcore gamers without confirmation are not in truth hardcore. so there we go. and if you are sniping but are not aware of any powerups or "big guns" as my friend calls them, then you are a sniper, but it's a bit hard to be a sniper if you're not aware. right, that's my reentry into this debate.

SimplyCosmic
31st Mar 2001, 12:00 PM
Actually, that wouldn't be "strategy" either. It would be "tactical", however.

Frankly, as much as we might complain about certain tactics being lame, if they work then they work mostly because the enemy lets them work.

And in the end, the number of frags is the true count of exactly how effective a tactic is.


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SadaraK
31st Mar 2001, 04:48 PM
I play LMS a bit (sarcasm) and camping within an LMS game is a definate crime. Of cource it depends on your definition of a camper (which can vary wildly), some people define camping as not entering the interior of hyper (debatable at best), however u cant sit there and tell me that sitting at the bottom of peak with the sniper and no way what so ever of dying unless u kill yourself and tell me that it is a ligitamate tactic.....(In my book its as bad as re-entering an LMS game near the begging to gain the life that u just lost).

Boom
31st Mar 2001, 04:54 PM
This thread is silly. On the first issue, the hardcore gamer issue, these are my thoughts. I don't call myself a hardcore gamer. I don't care if others think I am or not. I play a few games online and off. I play a TON of UT online. I try to follow the videogames scene. I read a bunch of videogame mags like incite and PC gamer and try a lot of the demos that come on the CD with the magazines, and that I can download online. I am in a UT clan that has tons of matches and is holding a nice midlevel position on a major gaming ladder. I regularly play with people in the top 5 clans (CTF anyway) and hang in their chatrooms. Who gives a damn if I am a "hardcore gamer" or not? Its silly. As long as my online friends want to play with me, I don't need a freakin label like "hardcore gamer". And who cares if someone claims to be a "hardcore gamer" and they only play solitare? I mean, this is your big gripe in life? Geez.

And the camping issue. OMG has this been done to death in this forum! In FFADM, I don't care what you do. If you get more frags then me, then you win. If you want to sit on the powerup, then I know where to find you. I can turn the corner spamming a bunch of rockets, kill you, and take the damn powerup. If you are holed up in a little corner sniping, you will get me once or twice, but then I will be pumping rockets or combos or altflak into your hidey hole everytime I turn the corner, before you see me. If you don't keep moving in FFADM, you are gonna be my bitch.

CTF is a different story. Guarding the flag is not camping. Seems pretty obvious to me, its one of the most important things you can do to help your team. Keeping an eye on powerups in CTF is not camping. As a defender, I know I get pissed when the enemy comes into my base with amp and shieldbelt. If my midfielder is doing his job and "camping" the powerups, that doesn't happen. Sniping attackers and flagrunners in CTF is also not camping. Anything that helps my team get caps, and prevent the enemy from capping is good. Sitting on top of face and sniping people as they spawn, is camping. You aren't helping your team. You aren't stopping the enemy from capping and you aren't supporting your offense. You are just racking up frags for yourself. When you kill someone who just spawned, they just respawn right away. Its no big loss for them. Meanwhile, while you are busy sniping spawners, some guy is hitting my base with armor and weapons and support. Holing up in a corner in CTF and going for frags is camping. Holing up in a corner in CTF and killing flagrunners on their way out of the base, and returning the flag, is helping. In CTF, its all about the flag.

SadaraK
31st Mar 2001, 05:21 PM
:)

Moridin_121
31st Mar 2001, 09:16 PM
sadarak, this thread doesn't particularly apply to you, you don't label yourself a hardcore gamer anyway, so fine, your input was interesting, not very useful, but interesting. anyway did i ever say that guarding the flag in CTF was camping? no, what i usually do if i'm playing with bots is tell all of them to defend the flag then i go and get the enemy flag, because, frankly, bots suck at capturing the flag. tactics are a form of strategy, so don't get pedantic. now then, snipers who don't mover around are dead anyway, it only takes two or three frags for someone to guess where they are, unless they move around. right,

SadaraK
1st Apr 2001, 05:46 AM
Personally I despise the entire idea of "labeling" within games playing as a whole, it simply breeds arguments and brings out the zealots of the crowd. However u really shouldnt go around labeling people "hardcore" or "casual" when u don't even know who they are based on comments in formums m8.
The reason I wouldn't label myself a hardcore gamer is that I don't like to label at all, but for someone who has been plying games for 16 years and has owned a lot of the major consoles from this time to that(Atari,c64,nes,snes,playstation,n64,gameboy,dreamcast,PC) and played most of the great games of our times from them all (barring not being able to afford the bloody things) and am currently studying a Journalism degree in order to become a games journalist I do consider myself to know a thing or 2 about the subject.

SimplyCosmic
1st Apr 2001, 06:20 AM
tactics are a form of strategy, so don't get pedantic

I find it extremely ironic that a person who insists on finely labeling different kinds of gamers, complains when it's pointed out that two words are being mistaken for each other. But what the hell, I'm got nothing better to do.

My time in the Army has shown that if you don't understand the difference between the two, you're either a private, or an ROTC graduate. ;)

There is a huge difference between the two, and the gross misuse of the terms in gaming circles shows how little study of the subjects is actually done.

Now, a quick definition (http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=tactics):

tacˇtics (tk-tks)
n.

(used with a sing. verb)The military art that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in efficient maneuvers against an enemy: Tactics is a required course at all military academies.

(used with a pl. verb)Maneuvers used against an enemy: Guerrilla tactics were employed during most of the war.

(used with a sing. or pl. verb)A procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to achieve an end, an aim, or a goal.


Now, compare this to our other defintion:

stratˇeˇgy (strt-j)
n., pl. stratˇeˇgies.

The science and art of using all the forces of a nation to execute approved plans as effectively as possible during peace or war.

The science and art of military command as applied to the overall planning and conduct of large-scale combat operations.

A plan of action resulting from strategy or intended to accomplish a specific goal. See Synonyms at plan.
The art or skill of using stratagems in endeavors such as politics and business.


So, to put this in the perspective of an Unreal Tournament player (whether they're a hardcore gamer or not) a strategy would consist of scoring more points through flag caps, whereas the execution of a plan or maneuver to accomplish that would be tactical.

Boom was absolutely correct in his analysis of the absurdity inherent in this thread, but if there's going to be silliness here, we might as well push it to the limit.


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Robot TinMan|BuF
1st Apr 2001, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Boom
Who gives a damn if I am a "hardcore gamer" or not? Its silly. As long as my online friends want to play with me, I don't need a freakin label like "hardcore gamerAmen!

SC? I've always loved Ur definitions.;)

As for "camping" (at least in CTF): If U play on a pub-server (with alot of n00bs) and guard the flag, Ur called a camper. Otoh if U play in a ladder match (or pubs with experienced peeps), it's called good defense.;)
All U hafta do is find a way to get thru that defense.

Moridin_121
2nd Apr 2001, 05:23 AM
alright, if you don't like labelling sadarak, why are you bothering to enter into this, and if it's just to try and change me, forget it, better people than you have tried. you may know a bit about games, fine, but if you don't care about labelling, don't listen. ok? cosmic, think about the difference between a hardcore gamer and a gamer as the difference between a private and general, right? a gamer is someone who may be good at games but hasn't actually risen very far through any games, a hardcore gamer would be someone who is either good at games and has risen far, or someone who can do it, but doesn't feel he/she needs to prove it. ok? that may seem a little strange, but hey, it's my definition, if anyone has any different definitions, then tell me.

hal
2nd Apr 2001, 07:04 AM
Haha.... what is this thread about again?

mobace
2nd Apr 2001, 08:38 AM
how do i unsubscribe this thread i don't want to have to read anymore of moridrinianirininsmorininininin's lameness on accident

Blistering_Pants
2nd Apr 2001, 08:44 AM
edit profile and it will be at the bottom

SimplyCosmic
2nd Apr 2001, 01:42 PM
cosmic, think about the difference between a hardcore gamer and a gamer as the difference between a private and general, right? a gamer is someone who may be good at games but hasn't actually risen very far through any games, a hardcore gamer would be someone who is either good at games and has risen far, or someone who can do it, but doesn't feel he/she needs to prove it.

This is getting funnier. It's like a car accident, I can't look away . . .

The part I like is the definition of a hardcore gamer as "someone who can do it, but doesn't feel he/she needs to prove it". Wouldn't that mean, therefore, that anyone who's attempting to differentiate between themselves and "regular gamers" would not be hardcore by that definition?

A true "hardcore gamer" wouldn't be wasting time trying define others as not being worthy of their level. Instead they would say "shut up and play".


(As for Privates being less hardcore than Generals, well, you've obviously not been in the military, son. ;) )


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Blistering_Pants
2nd Apr 2001, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by SimplyCosmic



(As for Privates being less hardcore than Generals, well, you've obviously not been in the military, son. ;) )




Amen to that!

Zaphrod
2nd Apr 2001, 02:55 PM
Well if you want to challange someone just host the game. A 56k connection should be able to handle 1v1 and your ping would be 0 while the other guy might have 200 or so.

I will accept a challange from you while you host and I ping 200 to the best servers let alone a 56k non dedicated server.

I played a friend yesterday , he hosted on a cable connection and I was pinging 275 give or take. The score when he had had enough was 18 for me and 1 for him.

Of course if you take 2 completely equal players and one has 25 ping and the other has 250 ping then the low pinger has the advantage but you should be able to hold your own even at 300 ping if your any good at all.

SilentStrike
2nd Apr 2001, 04:11 PM
Heh, lot of disgreements on this one.

First, being able to play in lag and being good at UT are two different skills. If I had someone who played just like me, and I was on a 300 ping connection while the other guy was on a 100 ping connection, I would get beaten harshly.

Does this make me a poor UT player? I don't think so. I am like 15-1 on the PuF ladder with my only loss being to a 1 frag loss to Xenex when we played on a German server (he is German and was #1 on the ladder at the time, I am American).

I simply have never really played in games where my ping was constantly greater than 150. I've had cable since I started playing UT, so I've never played on dialup, and I would take a long time to adjust to it to playing with high ping.

If I were to diffentiate between gamer and hardcore gamer, I would go the opposite way that Moridan went with it. A gamer, generally, is one who plays games for fun. A hardcore gamer is kinda over the edge, no longer playing for fun but playing to win and enjoy winning in games. The geeks with no life who take it too seriously are the ones who are hardcore. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore UT player, but a year or so I would have considered myself a hardcore Starcraft player (I even took a day off to travel from NJ to DC to play in a money tournament, lucky I took home $250 for 2nd, else I would have lost money on the train ride down there).

Being hardcore is not a good thing generally. You play a game too much, it detracts from other areas of the game, and you only really enjoy yourself when you are winning (although it happens a lot).

Moridin_121
3rd Apr 2001, 04:16 AM
right, with the definitions of hardcore gamer and just gamer, i was talking about the differences in attitude and thought patterns, and if you don't like this thread, ignore it. get on with your lives, but i am interested in what people think about the definitions of gamers, and the levels therein. if you don't like my definitions and opinions, fine, but don't insult my intelligence by pretending that i'm an idiot, because i'm not, ok? and if anyone wants to dispute that, fine, you can, but i know what i am. all of you people who don't want to read this, don't, and don't bother to post replies saying how lame this is. ok? right. got it? good. now, this post was originally meant to illustrate the difference between what is generally called a hardcore gamer and, say, a newbie. right. alright, silentstrike, a hardcore gamer is someone who plays games only to win? alright, so what if someone likes to win? it's not like they're obsessed, they could be naturally good at it. hmm, this is just going the other way from my original post. oh well... if you don't like the post, don't read it, and if you do read it and your eyes offend you, rip them out.

SimplyCosmic
3rd Apr 2001, 05:12 AM
First off, God made man.

And man made paragraphs.

Use them, it makes your thoughts more clearly organized.

Now, let's go on a side tangent, if only because the original point of this thread is silly.

Why do people make a statement of opinion in a public forum, then act all aghast when someone challenges that opinion in another post? The moment you contribute an idea to a public forum, you allow it to be subjected to public criticism. If the idea is strong, and you are able to defend it, then it is a good idea. If the idea cannot survive normal public discourse, it should not be shielded from such. Doing so serves no good.

So, here we are. You've made a public statement about who and what is a "hardcore gamer". That's fine, except that now that you've made your statement of opinion, we are allowed to state ours. And then we discuss it through debate, argument and rebuttal. That's normal public discourse. To say that anyone who disagrees with you shouldn't even be "in" this thread only weakens your argument. It says that you believe your point cannot survive if anyone who doesn't agree with you even looks at it. And if it can't stand up to that amount of scrutiny, how strong can it be?

People need to accept some responsibility for what they say. And by that, I mean that they need to accept that they will be expected to be able to defend their statements if needed. People can say that we should never question another's viewpoint, but in the end this serves no one.

Ah well . . . I just wanted to get a little real discussion out of this topic. A true "hardcore gamer" wouldn't have even wasted the time telling others who is or isn't one, but would be playing instead.


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Zacko
3rd Apr 2001, 05:16 AM
This could be more fun than the "brightness discussion".....

CWM Hexum
3rd Apr 2001, 01:13 PM
This thread is stupid. Who cares about gamers or hardcore gamers. I don't! I play games for fun, I enjoy them. Relax Moridin.

Kokensu
3rd Apr 2001, 01:37 PM
I'd have to agree with Silent Strike. People that take things too seriously would be hardcore. It's like the difference between a person that roller blades, and a trick(hardcore) skater. Does the trick skater not care what people think about him etc. Actually in most cases he probably does. You may meet the rare person that doesn't but most of them do the tricks for attention. Some do it simply for the love of skating. In either case those trick skaters put ALOT more time and energy into skating.

In much the same way a hardcore game(if you need to label) would be someone that puts alot more effort into GAMING. The reason for doing such is irrelevant. Whether it's for attention, to be number one, or just because they love games doesn't matter. The fact is all those people who would be "hardcore" gamers, play games in excess. Most people that play games LIKE games but these people go overboard, claiming insult when someone says they're no good, getting angry because a newbie accidentally team killed them, gloating and getting overly excited for beating another clan, etc. It's just a game(to most people) but some see it as more than that. Is it bad? When it detracts from real life commitments.. YES. But in most cases these people are normal everyday people that just love games. I play LOTS of games. I maybe used to be hardcore(getting into it way too much), but lately I've settled down. I don't take it personally when someone type kills me or whatever. Point is I don't see the need for labels. They're pointless, and all it does is give you the mindset to claim you're better than somone else.

By my description you ARE a hardcore gamer. You're taking this whole thing too seriously and getting upset cause people don't agree with you. People don't HAVE to agree with you. Get over it. You can be HARDCORE or NOT. Either way as long as you have FUN that's what really matters.

hal
3rd Apr 2001, 11:20 PM
Oh yeah, now I remember.