Aimbot Witch Hunts..

[Infidel [FU]]

I don't like the idea of people in a game using aimbots any more than the rest of you do... but this witch hunt has gotten a little bit out of hand.

I've read about at least two well known PUF'ers that have been labeled as cheaters -- one for forgetting to remove the aimbot, one for having a skinpack installed. After an explanation, most of not all of the folks around here took a deep breath and shrugged it off.

What about the folks who aren't well known PUF'ers? Folks who are fairly new to the UT scene, downloading skins and mods like crazy -- just like the rest of us did?

DarkReaper and Second are just like everybody else out there who've been accused of cheating, or just wanted to test out the aimbot, or didn't do anything at all except install a bloody skin. I tested it along with a whole bunch of other people -- I just removed any trace of the damn thing from my computer when I was done.

I don't want to see some chowderhead aliasing an honorable clan or player, just to ruin a reputation. It'll happen to someone you know and respect sooner or later. Who knows, it might even happen to *you*..

If a clan really is using the aimbot, it WILL eventually come out. Someone'll make a mistake on a CSHP server, or raise too much suspicion with those well-timed headshots -- whatever. The rest of the morons using the aimbot aren't going to care that you post names and IPs.

Which brings me to another point -- why even bother with posting that information from the server log? Most server admins, especially the ones with CSHP installed, aren't going to bother entering all the IPs into the ban list -- and it's not even necessary with CSHP.

Discussion is one thing -- and usually a good thing. But it seems like a lot of the aimbot related messages here and in other places are just adding fuel to the fire: giving Aimbot lamers the attention they crave, helping to fuel suspicions when playing games.. If you were some dork using the aimbot under a false name and saw it pop up on the Llama farm, I bet you'd get a big kick out of it.

One last note: if you think this is going to go away, or other cheats will not be created and exploited, you're WRONG. People not only know it can be done, but now they've had a chance to play with it. How long will the witch hunt last and how far will it go?

[LordKhaine]

Did someone say witch hunts?

Sorry, couldnt resist:)

And yes I agree, witchhunting aimbot users is not a good idea.....

[Tetris L]

I hope in the end most servers (or at least a good portion) will have CSHP installed and configured at to kick possible cheaters.

If you get kicked from a lot of servers, you'll have to check your system and clean it from any client side mutator. This may suck, cos some of them are quite handy, but it is unavoidable long-term. There is no other way to stop the aimbots, /me thinks.

[o0pIumM]

Is there a way to tell if you've been kicked for an 'illegal' mutator? Or do you just get the connection failed message?

[Infidel [FU]]

I'd agree, I think most good admins will have CSHP installed before long. I used to be pretty iffy on it because of the false positive detects, but have since changed my mind / been convinced otherwise. (A log or a kick, but changing the name of someone to "CHEATER" isn't fair, with the possibility of false detects. One thing for a server admin to read his log, but another to announce to the entire server that someone *might* be cheating..)

UT Newbies who are smart enough or ambitious enough to install client mods will eventually figure out what's wrong when they can't join a lot of the "good" servers.

UT Veterans *can't* not know why they get booted off a server, with all the attention that the aimbot has received in the last week.

At any rate, I just think that it's all a little too much, and can have detrimental effects on the UT community. I sure as hell hate to, but now I wonder if the person who got that headshot on me was lucky, skilled, or just using a friggin aimbot.

Another note about all the paranoia -- folks have suggested spectating someone to watch their movements. While I think this is a good indication, it's not necessarily proof -- I know that every once in a while, my fingers turn to mush and I end up shooting my mouse in a wild direction.. I usually end up looking at the ceiling and have to take about half a second to reorient myself if I'm lucky enough not to be fragged -- and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has this happen. I don't know what it'd look like from a spectator point of view, but it's just another example of how someone might unfairly be labeled a cheater.

If you're the server admin, and think someone *is* cheating, just ban 'em and move on. Now that the aimbot is out there, it aint goin away. Shutting down that geocities site, while potentially personally satisfying, didn't do any good and probably will end up making matters worse -- I don't know who the distributor of the aimbot was, but if it were me and that happened, I'd open about 50 geocities sites, post it as an attachment to all the UT message boards that accept attachments, etc.

I donno.. the damn thing is here, and it's not going to go away any time soon. I'd rather see folks spend their energies in a more positive fashion.

[-[BHS]-Firewall]

There is a way to spec a person in first person. Just open up your console and type in "behindview 0." If the suspected aimbot user's screen pops around everywhere hitting everything in sight, then you have an obvious aimbot.

[Lizard Of Oz]

"kick possible cheaters."

Now that's scary.

Why should I have to re-configure my system for imperfect witchhunt software (CSHP)?

Fix CSHP first and then kick cheaters, not "Possible" cheaters.


"Those that sacrifice FREEDOM for SECURITY get, nor deserve either" -Thomas Jefferson.

[hobart_paving]

first of all, how is this a witch hunt? every puffer that has been listed in a server log so far as having the funbot installed did in fact have the funbot installed. nobody is claiming that they used the funbot in a match, but there IS a penalty for having this aimbot installed. if the few people who had it installed and didn't realize it show anything in this episode, it's that you should uninstall this piece of software asap. that's a good message, imo.

secondly, the ut universe is NOT a democracy. server admins don't have to answer to you or even to an official majority rule. they put up servers out of their own expenses and time. liberty and freedom? i was banned from a dmm server once because i was using the name "luckyasssheep". is that fair? i didn't think so. was the dmm admin wrong for banning me? hell, it's his server, he can do whatever he wants. it is fair that some people with custom skins will get kicked because of cshp? no, but nobody granted ut players some universal right to be able to play on all ut servers while using modified player consoles.

playing on a server is a priviledge and NOT a right. if server admins decide that you must be able to pass the cshp test before you can play on that server, then that's their perogative. since it's the everyday non-aimbot using players who are clamoring most for this security to be added, i think server admins should be commended for responding to a widespread need.

don't like cshp? don't play on cshp servers. it's that simple.

what happens if someone fakes an alias and tries to ruin someone's reputation online with an aimbot? what happens when someone fakes an alias and behaves like a complete jerk and tries to ruin someone's reputation online? is there a difference?

i don't want my online games ruined by aimbots and i don't want my clanmates to keep getting accused of using an aimbot(*cough*bigEgoJedi*cough*). :) what's the best way for these two things to happen? for every server to install the latest version of cshp and for the community to come down firmly against even having the aimbot on your system(even if you just forgot to uninstall it). sorry, but that's what you got yourself into when you installed the damn thing in the first place.

[[ACE]Revenant]

I also think everyone should use CSHP........even if it kicks someone ,who doesn't have the aimbot but some kind of innocent mutator, every now and then..........
That are the costs of keeping those aimbots out.......

Then you'll say.......configure this CSHP to only kick aimbot users and not other 'client side mutators'......this won't work.........People will soon develop another version of the aimbot which won't be detected..........

Same goes fore every protection.......it's only a matter of time before the llamas break through it......but we want to make that period of time as long as possible.........
Thus kicking all 'client side' mutators,mods and stuff......

And the 'option number 3' in CSHP labeling people cheaters........is probably not the best option to chose.....but if the admin wants to use this option.......so be it........He's the admin of this server.....not you......


"Those that sacrifice FREEDOM for SECURITY get, nor deserve either" -Thomas Jefferson.


We aren't sacreficing any freedom.........You can still do everything you could do in the past.......And if you're using some kind of client side program and cannot get on CSHP servers anymore.......well.....too bad for you.......learn to live without it.......




-Revenant

[[UJE]Crakdeala]

Well.... I hate to bring this to you, but I don't think CSHP will be well spread among servers. Remember the thread some time ago? A great number of servers are *just* there, no1 really seems to admin 'em. They do not get upgraded, the maps never change. They will not run CSHP.

[[ACE]Revenant]

I know.....that's why a CSHP kind of program has to be included in the next epic patch......

-Revenant

[Infidel [FU]]

The idea of Epic including a CSHP-style mod in it's next patch is quite crazy -- no matter how many people sign that petition. One of the great things about UT is it's extensibility -- anybody can create just about anything for the game. Epic ain't gonna break that extensibility with a patch.

"what happens if someone fakes an alias and tries to ruin someone's reputation online with an aimbot? what happens when someone fakes an alias and behaves like a complete jerk and tries to ruin someone's reputation online? is there a difference?"

YES! The difference is that where the aimbot is concerned, it's pretty much a case of shoot first and ask questions later.. and if someone fakes an alias with the aimbot, the reputation of an entire clan could be at stake. How many of y'all will want to play against clans that have been accused of cheating?

There are only two ways you can be sure someone is cheating: going to their house and looking at their computer, or watching them get about 20 headshots in a row all over a map. And headshots really *arent* that hard to get if you practice at it.

I'm willing to believe Rooster and some of the other admins when they post a log, but what's to stop some someone from faking a log?

I couldn't really care less if I, as an individual, were accused of cheating -- but I'm part of a clan, and I represent that clan. I would absolutely hate to see my clan's integrity and honor tarnished because someone had a grudge against me or was just plain aliasing me.