Custom Textures - Anyone using them????

[[MUTTS] Das]

Hey hey,

I've been through tons of new maps lately...checking them out, playing them, watching the reviews....

Is anyone really doing anything *that* different? Is anyone using custom textures or prefabs with any regularity?

I see very little custom art being used in maps these days and it's positively depressing. A few textures, here and there, but that's it.

There's a few original ideas when it comes to architecture, but am I missing something? It just seems like the same stuff, over and over.

Let me know where I'm wrong! :)

As everyone knows, I have a texture site at TextureUniverse.com....so let me know as well if stuff is being used...it's always best to see it in the maps themselves.

And....if you are using custom textures, and know of good sources, I'm always happy to link to them off of my site.

This isn't meant as a flame...just looking for feedback and wondering why everything looks so similar when I load up maps these days....

Thanks,

Scott
[muTTs] Das
http://www.TextureUniverse.com

[TaoPaiPai]

I think textures are the most difficult thing to create when you design some custom levels.
It requires a lot of experience,I think there are not enough people who specialize themselves in texture making.Everybody wants to build maps,but half the visual from a level comes frome its textures.
Mapmakers could use some help from experienced texture designers.

[[MUTTS] Das]

Of course...it is a huge job. But part of what I'm saying is that there are resources already available, either what I've done, or the numerous links from my site and between other texture sites. They can even be found doing search-engine searches.

So many maps have the same drab earth-tone retail facility or natural textures, though. They just all look the same. No new environments, etc... The maps might play well, but they look like they're all different areas of one map.

To me, this is one of the most important concepts behind creating a custom map...the idea that it's something "new." Ignorning the use of custom textures is ignoring one of the most obvious ways of being creative in making your maps. There's plenty of resources already out there if you look for them.

-Scott
http://www.textureuniverse.com

[Zaphrod]

I agree with you Das but I think the reason is its so much easier to make a map with textures that are already available than to try to make or find that perfect texture, not only that but to make a level flow properly from one poing to another, you need a texture pack. If you make matching texture packs then I for one would use them if there were enough different textures that the whole map could be done without finding or creating more.

I did make a Map with completely custom textures but the think was way to complicated so it played like a slide show with more than 2 or 3 players and being an assault map that was kinda useless, anyway that was my first attempt at a map and I have done around 20 now and I still havent liked any of them enough to release them. I know that at least 10 were better designs than 75% of the custom maps I see, but then those maps are usually very playable because they dont have alot of detail where as the maps I have made so far have been very detailed but only the last few have been playable on a PIII 450 with a voodoo2/sli setup I use to test them out, they all work fine on my 866 /geforce DDR but not everyone has the latest processor and video card. Not even me anymore and my Comp is 6 months old.

[TaoPaiPai]

Personnaly as a map maker I prefer not to rely on pre-made texture packs for several reasons:

-Most of the time they are less beautiful than the one shipped with UT.
-user-made textures are either too generic (in this case UT standard textures are enough) either too specific (in this case you don't want to use it in YOUR map,because half the work won't be yours,and it has too much influencce on the atmosphere of the level.Well that's my position).
-You don't want to see several other maps that will look like yours because they use the same textures (that's not important with the standard textures)
-There is a problem with redistribution:Am I allowed to use one texture in an utx file that I'll distribute with my map?I don't want to distribute a whole texture pack for just one texture.

You will notice that even in the standard Epic textures there are some textures that are not used often because of these reasons I just told you.For example the ShaneChurch textures.

[ZodiaK]

Have to agree with TaoPaiPai about the pre-made packs. I think one of the biggest problem in using completely custom textures (I mean selfmade) is that, if you don't want to make every single texture to your level, you'd have to be VERY good to make them match the quality of the standard textures. And if you decide to go all the way and build all by yourself, then there's just too much work, at least for me. For now, I'm taxed enough to get my maps playable. Maybe after a couple of centuries I'll be good enough a mapper to start thinkin' texture-wise. For now, sticking to the std tex's is fine with me.

-ZdK

[[MUTTS] Das]

I think you guys need to check out my site. :)

Textures don't need to be used as full packs. It's possible to mix and match....you can even use single textures.

I'm really not suggesting that someone go in and make 30 textures for their one level...particularly since it increases the download size. However, I've seen mappers add 1-4 textures easily, and my own clan-mate has used my stuff in a map he made and it was really effective.

Here's an example of a texture he was using for The Dogpound:

http://members.aol.com/clanmutts/Resources/skeletonrooma.gif

You can see it works well, it's something new, it's as-good quality as the retail stuff, and you can use it as a single texture without having to match tons of other textures to the whole map. Use the texture once in a dungeon and you've got something interesting.

It's all about using what's out there. There are probably 300-400 custom textures that can be found through my site and the sites linked to mine. It really wouldn't be hard to take an hour or two to browse those sites, download some textures, and add them to your maps.

I think that's what gets people excited...and simple things like custom texturing will get people more enthusiastic about downloading your map when they see the screenshots at NaliCity, UT Booty, PlanetUnreal, etc....

-Scott
[muTTs] Das
Texture Universe (http://www.TextureUniverse.com)

[Hetemti]

For my level, I raped and denuded whatever was on my hard drive...which of course means I'll have to drop the usual "this stuff is mine except for the stuff that isn't mine, which is someone else's, but I make no profit so it's okay" line in the readme should I ever distribute.

However, I exported the textures then imported them back so all the textures I used would be saved in the same UTX to keep the files simple. Why have three UTXs containing hundreds of graphics for three textures? Simplify. One-word sentences? Eliminate. (Note: Parenthetical annotations, no matter how relevant, are unnecessary.)

[Phragmites]

youre right, there are lots of good textures out there, but perhaps not the exact ones that a mapper is looking for. for instance, im making an italian theme map and therefore want medieval italian-looking textures. NOT roman. can i find them? not exactly. there are plenty i can use, but the detail stuff isnt there at all. the particular window shapes, etc. im not good enough with graphics to make them myself, so im stuck trying to make the best use of standard UT textures and sort of ok generic textures.

basically, we each need a graphics buddy who will do amazing textures for us that we will skillfully transform into works of UT art. the job doesnt pay anything, though. any takers?

[[MUTTS] Das]

Well, I'll certainly agree that you won't always find exactly what you're looking for...but I don't see that as a good argument against using anything custom.

For example, a mapper using my textures used this with the UT textures for a desert-type map and it looked great:

http://www.textureuniverse.com/media_previews/mosaicfloorblue.jpg

I also think some textures should inspire the rooms or areas themselves.

I'm on a Mac, which has no UnrealEd to map (which is partly why I make textures instead), but if I were mapping I would use this in a map in a heartbeat:

http://www.textureuniverse.com/media_previews/skullsrocksmoss.jpg

You could stick that in any outdoor map, or even indoor...it's not meant for a huge area, but it certainly adds alot to those same retail textures we see over and over.

I just feel that same way....that people aren't being creative enough in looking for this stuff.

I've gotten a lot of e-mails from the gaming community looking for particular things ....Q3A, Half-Life, even "The Sims," but the UT community has been pretty quiet. If you need something, ask. The worst I'll say is I'm too busy. (Heh, don't go crazy on this though, :) :) :) )

MyUnreal and Chudzilla servers are hugely popular because they offer something different. The whole reason why you guys are mapping is because you want something different, something unique.... in my mind, it's not that hard to incorporate this stuff to that end, and I've seen others do it successfully.

http://members.aol.com/clanmutts/Resources/doorb.jpeg

Also, the textures used for CTF-Palace (I think that's the one) combined with my textures might give you what you're looking for in a medieval-Roman set.

-Scott
[muTTs] Das
http://www.textureuniverse.com

[Phragmites]

Ok, since you offered, and I am serious 'cause I want my map to look as good as poss, would you be able to whip up a small variety of textures for me? The way ive created the buildings is in layers 256 units high (3 layers for the tall buildings, 2 or 1 layer for the smaller ones) so that I can apply ground level textures and upper level textures to the same façade.

Ive done some searches for you to find photos that may help, particularly the san gimignano ones.
http://www.freefoto.com/pictures/italy/san_gimignano/index.asp
http://www.GreatBuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Palazzo_Strozzi.html/cid_cc-palaz_strozzi_01.gbi
http://www.castellitoscani.com/sgimignano_foto.htm
http://www.knowital.com/Towns/sienandsan/html/siena_images1.html

what im after is enough variety, along with what I already have, to make sure that the buildings don't look identikit, so i dont need a whole level's worth. and i think i have enough floors and roofs.

If you want to, have a go. And thanks for the offer regardless.

[Aphex]

Well as you say Das, my latest map includes several new textures with a snowy WW2 theme, and I'm quite happy with the results :D
If anyones interested (beta test plz?):
http://www.btinternet.com/~MartinGBell/files/SupplyLineAll.zip

I'm also looking at an Italian map, for which I've made quite a few textures, but obviously want my map to look unique-ish...

[Phragmites]

ooo... competition...

[Aphex]

hehe :) - the rate at which I turn out maps (2 a year if that!), I don't think there's much competition ;)

[[MUTTS] Das]

Aphex...

Your map rocks. The textures make it look really realistic. Reminds me of all of the realism-based mods. Very cool. Train is a great touch....and I had very little slowdown.

My only problems/suggestions:

1)There was a spot that I would get hung-up when I was walking on the tracks. Like an invisible wall, when walking inbetween the two tracks.

2)Textures kick ass...really nice job. The only real issue I had was with those Coret textures....I didn't think they fit in. But the rest look great.

3) Pick-ups...I think there could be a few more pick-ups scattered about.

4) Doors. I think there's one building that (at this point) you can't get in via the doors. All the other doors were active. Are you going to make it so all the doors are active?

My feeling was that it looks and plays great overall. I'm not sure if the botpathing was perfect, but it seemed good. I think it has benefited, and would benefit, from more things like the sniper tower and bunkers to give the central areas more offensive and defensive attack positions. I think it's 90% there...just that looking at that type of thing would make it 100%.

Otherwise, great job!

-Scott
[muTTs] Das

[Aphex]

Hi Das,

Thanks for the comments :)
Yeah I know about the git of an invisible pillar - still trying to get rid :(
Which/where are those Coret textures? I though I only used the coret glass in there?
Oops - must have messed up the door triggers somewhere :o
Will start looking at some more snipery/bunker stuff ;)
Afraid the train may have to come out - problems with the killzone at the front in multiplayer games - it kills you about 100 yards in front of the train :(

[[MUTTS] Das]

Ack!

No, you've got to leave the train! :) A really nice touch. Maybe there's a way to creat architecture that solves the killzone problem.

The Coret textures....they might actually be from Orbital....the grey ones with the red or blue lines.

As for the sniper/bunker stuff. I think you just want to add more opportunities for people to have places to fight around, to really engage each other in battle, just thinking about what areas of the map people will be fighting for control over and make the architecture conducive to that.

For example, in a map like Hydro...each area between the two bases has strategic significance and is worth battling for....the sniper nest, the bridges, the courtyards, the flak area. Same with most of the best maps. The reason why I say you should apply that to your map is because I felt there were many parts of the map that I wouldn't really end up fighting over, unless it was carrying a full player load. But that was just a general impression, playing with a bunch of bots. It might be different when playing with 10-15 actual players. By adding goodies or defensive and offensive positions (like the minigun nests in November), you can really increase the amount of battling that goes on the middle of the map.

-Scott
[muTTs] Das

[Aphex]

Hmmm good points there. I was thinking of maybe an outpost at each end of the bridge, on the side away from the base.
Maybe close the buildings in a bit?

[Fuzzpilz]

Sorry to break in, but these textures were indeed used in Coret, and also in Orbital and Zeto, I think.

[[MUTTS] Das]

Ummm....my mistake. They weren't those Orbital textures....just steel-looking ones.

The doors I couldn't get to work were the one on the roof, and the one on the smokestack building.

Actually, I think the center area is pretty well covered if snipers perch themselves on the bridge or the mountain. They don't have much cover there....maybe small "guard towers" might be nice, but they shouldn't be too powerful or no one will try that route. I think it plays good.

Two things for the flag room...maybe have more health. If it really is a 16-person game, then the flag room is going to be tough to attack. On big maps, people usually attack only one at a time, or in really small groups. Other players on their team will be sniping, defending, etc... So that means one or two people against a mess of defenders. You need to give them some health, armor, along an adequate escape route. I've seen maps like this that went 0-0 for an hour because the pub team could never organize enough players to make it into the flag room and have a safe return for the carrier. There were just too many players that the carrier had to get through on the way back. Having those stairwells helps, since defenders don't always have an open attack on a running carrier.

I think the things you want to avoid are having people scattered all over the map and making the flag too far and too difficult to grab onto and hold. It's good now, but those are just things to think about.

It really looks great...you clearly spent alot of time and put thought into the sounds, the lighting, etc...

As for those black areas without a texture in the flag room, which is like a furnace room...maybe this would work:

http://www.textureuniverse.com/textures_thumbnails/metal/CatacombsLava.jpg

Anyway, otherwise it's great. I'd really want to play it with a large number of people to iron out the kinks. Maybe you can get Wes over at MyUnreal (http://www.MyUnreal.com) to host one night so you can beta test it with a large group. Check it out.

-Scott
[muTTs]Das
http://www.TextureUniverse.com

[Aphex]

Yeah I know the textures you mean - changed em now.
Errm the door on roof and factory are meant to be shut. Perhaps I should use a different texture.
I'll try out that texture - cheers!
I'll look at that testing site you mention, just need to try and fix the train first :(
Cheers,
Aphex.