Spawn camping is good....

[Mrukk]

...according to the Gamespot UT strategy guide!! :( I was just checking out a preview they have online and here is a quote on how to play DM-Codex

"The area near the body armor (positioned just up a long wooden ramp) is a good sniping spot, as it looks down upon two spawn spots (health is also nearby)".

Wow - can you believe that crap? Earlier in the piece they were promoting the killing of people that others have almost killed already as a way of increasing your frag count! :( They also suggest that you prey on the people you consider to be the weakest!

Damn - games are about winning for plenty of people, but also a lot about having fun... and that means fun for everyone who is playing, not just you. I can't believe the trash that they put out :(

Cheers
Mrukk

[Big giB]

Dude, they said that? They SUCK! They are bad! They must be stopped! They must be annihalated! They must be assimilated! They must be raped! They must be killed! They must be obliderated! They must be slaughtered! They must be locked up in a nut house! Let's get em' > : )

[Mrukk]

The only question is, which of those things shall we do to them first ;)

Mrukk

[Big giB]

"types in iamtheone, takes out a chainsaw and types in playersonly" Let's find some Gamespot meat >:-)

[Mrukk]

w00t! Big giB and I are going to smack down Gamespot _and_ spam our way (on topic) to Godlike tonight <grin>

Mrukk

[Game0rz]

wow, interesting...

[Big giB]

GASP! Comeone other me and Mrukk has replied to this message! *hyperventaliates*

[Mrukk]

/me picks himself up from the floor where he passed out from the shock of having someone else reply :p

Anyway - guys, before this gets out of hand, this is no joke. This is seriously what was written in their guidebook!

Just imagine newbies picking up a copy of "How to play (and win) Unreal Tournament" by Gamespot... it doesn't even bear thinking about - even though I am sure it is already happening :mad:

Cheers
Mrukk

:rl:

[/-/otfart]

I would like to add somthing to what this thread got started.

As an assaulter i find spawnkillers to be a pain in the ***......BUT, they give you something nice in return -> twice the satisfaction when you kill them! :D

[Swedix]

Maybe there should be a new section in Llama category, llama sites. Send them to the farm.

[RizMan]

Hoa can they dare writing such a crap man? I'm quite new to the gaming community, but the first thing I learned was that camping sucks the world.

[Sam_The_Man]

They must be stopped! They must be annihalated! They must be assimilated! They must be raped! They must be killed! They must be obliderated! They must be slaughtered! They must be locked up in a nut house!

No need. Just force them to play Quake 3 Arena for a few hours :D

[Malsar]

I call all great players to challenge Gamespot players to a game of UT. Lets spawn snipe the hell out of them! Losers!

[Entropica{KS}]

Is this that show on ZD-TV hosted by Adam Sessler?

Interesting stuff... However, I have to take issue with you a little bit.

There was a thread in here yesterday about what camping really is--just another way to play the game. I think if DM-Codex were CTF-Codex, and the camping spot wasn't RIGHT in the path of spawners (so you could headshot them the second you see the blue flash), it would be conceivable that they would have a good point. Shooting heads off respawners who haven't been alive but for .3 seconds is horrible, and a bastardization of the rules of FPS (btw, why isn't every Face server running SpawnGuard?). Trying to find an offensive position where you can try and intercept newly spawned players (but they've been alive a few seconds and have a weopon or two) is another matter, isn't it? I agree completely, training young UT players to find places where respawning occurs and just camp there with the sniper rifle on Deathmatch maps IS ridiculous, though. So I 80% agree with you on that point.

The second point, about targeting those who have been weakened? I disagree! One of the basic foundations of every man for himself FPS is to attack those who have been in a fire fight already, those who've fallen in goo and gotten out, those who've fallen a great distance and still live. I see basically nothing wrong with the strategy the way Gamespot tells it. If I'm running around Codex of Wisdom and I come upon a fight where one guy finally wins, and I frag him with one enforcer bullet, is that cheap? I don't think so. I love to get challenging, hard-fought frags, but I and so many other good players also live by the fortune granted by weakened players and easy frags. I only 10% agree with you.

Third point, preying on those you find weakest... Well, personally, I like a challenge, I don't play DM anymore unless there are experienced players on. I don't go on newbie servers and prey on the whole thing. But I have no qualms about trying to avoid those people who are just WAY better than me and going after the ones who are about equal to me or even below me. That's just a personal decision I make every second of every game. I don't see the problem with this, either. I mean, I don't spawn kill, I don't chat kill when I can help it, don't teamkill, but I also won't show mercy if I find a player who is a little less impressive than the others. And I wouldn't want anybody BETTER than me doing so either! I know winning isn't everything, especially on public servers, but doing well and not being a fool are important too, that's why I think arranging your targets in your mind is a viable strategy. I 25% agree with you there.

All in all, the advice wasn't too earth-shattering. I learned that stuff (except the spawn-killing on Codex) years ago in Doom, Duke, and Quake :)
No hard feelings though :)

Entropica{KS}

[Mrukk]

Hi Ent,

Interesting post :p I guess we mostly agree on the spawn camping prob, but not on the others, so I'll get onto those!

Entropica{KS}
"If I'm running around Codex of Wisdom and I come upon a fight where one guy finally wins, and I frag him with one enforcer bullet, is that cheap?"

Sorry, I wondered if some people might get slightly the wrong idea about what I said there. I didn't explain it so well :( What they were actually talking about was looking for a fight between two players and killing the guy who looks like he is faring the worst! I am surely not suggesting that you should wait till someone has got more health etc before killing them. I know this is not the worst thing in the world by any means, but teaching people to steal peoples kills, on top of spawn camping etc just seems a little off to me :)

And as for the third point... I really was talking mostly about the spawn-camping, but just added these things in as extra infringements on decency <grin>. Anyway - sure, in a game with good players definitely pick on the easiest one if you want to, and if it satisfies you in your quest to be #1. You are right in that people have the responsibility to make sure they are reasonable before coming to play, or to simply avoid you. However, there are people who are not naturally good at these games, but would like to experience some online play. These people _cannot_ avoid a very good player, because these players simply do not let off once they see you!

There was one time on a DM game where I was crushing everyone, and one guy in particular was having real difficulties and made some comment about it. He sounded decent, so I mostly left him alone after that to face the other players. Obviously not everyone has to do this (every man for himself right), but I would hate to think that I stifled the enjoyment of the game for someone, especially if they ended up leaving UT for another :(

Thanks for your response Ent,
Mrukk

[Temporary Account]

In DM...anything goes. While I agree that Gamespot putting spawn-camping right in their guide is pretty weak, there is basically nothing wrong with it in a DM game (CTF or AS are different matters.) Chances are, you won't spawn there very often, and if you notice one guy hanging out there, it's pretty easy to ambush him.

Also, as to the "stealing peoples kills" method...this is in no way lame at all. It's part of the strategy of DM to finish your opponents off quickly before anyone else can sneak in on you. It's also part of the strategy to encounter a battle, decide who's weakest, take them out, then work on the strong guy. One of my buddies calls this tactic "cherry picking". He's pretty good at stealing peoples kills, and I personally consider this an excellent tactic in DM. Not only do you get a frag, but you deprive your competitor of one also.

Like I said..in DM...ANYTHING goes. Admitadly, some tactics are less than fun to be on the recieving end...and you should respect the "tone" of the server you are on. If it's obvious the people on it aren't "hardcore", then sure..be nice..have fun! But in a serious DM game, you'd better use all the tactics you possess to your advantage.

[Mrukk]

Haha - just kidding. I agree with you all that pretty much anything goes in DM... I just think perhaps the guide should be more about giving tips on how to improve your general gameplay, rather than being all about promoting marginal strategies just to boost your kills a little.

I have not had too much experience with spawn-killing myself, but I will always remember the first time it happened (on DM temp!). It was DM-Phobos and I joined the game and found that I spawned downstairs near the goo gun. I was killed as soon as I spawned. I spawned there probably 80% of the time on that game, and almost every single time I was killed by the same guy! I just couldn't believe what was happening! There is no way around it if he is good at what he does :(

Cheers
Mrukk

[Blatant Bastich]

I played 2v2 DM on OGL for awhile and one pair of opponents seemed to kill me every time with just an enforcer in my hand. Well I asked them about it later and they said that one of the things they practiced was where the spawn points are in any given map. They played with Auto-taunts turned on so that when ever they got a kill their teammate would hear the taunt then run to the nearst spawn point on the map 75% of the time finding a fresh, weaponless, armourless target. To me that was not lame it was just a great strategy.

[The Dopefish]

That's kind of borderline. :)

[Mrukk]

I guess I agree with dopey that it is kind of borderline, but then, as long as they are not killing you the instant you respawn... as long as there is some hope that you can get away and continue to play the game as it should be played, then I would say it is a very useful strategy!

If they try to kill you instantly then I would say it is meaningless for them to try and play in ladder matches. It is the same as if you are playing a sport, and you cheat in order to win. You will never get the same satisfaction out of it :)

Cheers
Mrukk

:rl:

[Big giB]

Ubfortunantly, I think that article may have convinced newbies that its OK to spawn camp, I don't mean in DM, but in Team Game based mods.