WikiLeaks

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Arcturus

Not From Bloody Starcraft
Jan 23, 2000
1,506
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Totally Not Korhal IV
I'm surprised there isn't a dumb political thread about this already so feel free to have stupid bitchfights about WikiLeaks in this thread. Especially looking forward to hearing from our crazy right-wing contingent on this. You lovable scamps.

I don't usually go in for these political shenanigans but someone will post about it anyway, so we might as well get it over with.
 

Big-Al

amateur de bière
Jun 14, 2003
8,579
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Under a black flag.
www.ttrgame.com
I'm surprised there isn't a dumb political thread about this already so feel free to have stupid bitchfights about WikiLeaks in this thread. Especially looking forward to hearing from our crazy right-wing contingent on this. You lovable scamps.

I don't usually go in for these political shenanigans but someone will post about it anyway, so we might as well get it over with.

http://213.251.145.96/

support it!!
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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Wikileaks irritates me greatly.

On one hand, I very much support the idea of keeping governments of their toes and keeping them honest and I believe that leaking information about misdeeds is important to keep the country honest. For instance, while I feel that the helicopter video released doesn't show anything even resembling a war crime (and in fact, given the circumstances of being in a combat area with actual weapons being recovered, I feel it was entirely justified even if I am simultaneously saddened by the death and injuries of innocents), there was a great deal of information contained that needed to make its way into the open to show what had really happened.

The thing is, this is the type of information that needs to get into the hands of JOURNALISTS, not a hacker with a god complex. The leak of the diplomatic cables doesn't reveal anything in particular except that people are people and that communications behind closed doors is not as diplomatic as communications in the open. Many people were embarrassed in a way that doesn't really expose them, but in a way that DOES hamper further communication. Wikileaks has also demonstrated they do not contain the diligence, wherewithal or desire to protect the innocent when putting massive loads of information into the public sphere, potentially compromising hundreds of people who are cooperating in getting rid of such oppressive regimes as the Taliban.

So yeah, the idea is good, but the execution leaves MUCH to be desired and head of the organization has proved to be without either the morals that such a morally indignant position demands or the ability to properly manage the information.

~Jason
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
1,045
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The thing is, this is the type of information that needs to get into the hands of JOURNALISTS, not a hacker with a god complex.

Because FOX NEWS can be trusted to provide an honest and unbiased account of this.

LAFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Phopojijo

A Loose Screw
Nov 13, 2005
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Canada
Because FOX NEWS can be trusted to provide an honest and unbiased account of this.

LAFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He never said which journalists.

The thing is, this is the type of information that needs to get into the hands of JOURNALISTS, not a hacker with a god complex. The leak of the diplomatic cables doesn't reveal anything in particular except that people are people and that communications behind closed doors is not as diplomatic as communications in the open. Many people were embarrassed in a way that doesn't really expose them, but in a way that DOES hamper further communication. Wikileaks has also demonstrated they do not contain the diligence, wherewithal or desire to protect the innocent when putting massive loads of information into the public sphere, potentially compromising hundreds of people who are cooperating in getting rid of such oppressive regimes as the Taliban.
Uh, Wikileaks works through journalists like The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.
 

d3tox

Face down in a pool of his own vomit.
Apr 8, 2008
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I don't care who it is, but journalists are generally employed by someone. That someone tends to be a corporation with an agenda. (Making $$) Generally those vested in seeing the company succeed don't want to see their employees (the journalists you speak of) putting negative news out there and shaping public opinion against those elected officials that the employers support.

This is not a blanket statement, nor is it an indictment that every journalist will cherry pick and take information contained in said documents out of context, BUT, the likelihood of it happening if the whole document isnt out there exists. Putting the whole document out is actually, IMO, responsible, as it lets people decide for themselves as to what we're being told with them.
 

Jacks:Revenge

╠╣E╚╚O
Jun 18, 2006
10,065
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somewhere; sometime?
I love how the Wikileaks website was shut down by some unknown group of hackers immediately after they released the US foreign policy cables; which was just a bunch of schoolyard gossip anyhow. everybody does it, it's nothng new.

so yeah, unknown hackers. ohhh, it's quite a mystery.
where "unknown" means CIA and "hackers" means agents.

the site is still down, but the effort is entirely futile since the information is backed up on a variety of servers in numerous countries. I don't even see what the big deal is. they can say it's a matter of national security... but it's not.
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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I don't even see what the big deal is. they can say it's a matter of national security... but it's not.

How about the fact that people who collaborate with the US are getting their names printed in public? Not only does it jeopardize the lives of those people trying to get rid of things like the Taliban, but it reduces the likelihood of people cooperating in the future.

The same goes for the diplomatic cables. Nothing of massive secrecy was revealed, but was revealed creates a sea of uneasiness and hampers the ability of the government to simply communicate with other people who are less likely to be frank, to actually communicate, because there is a fear that that information is going to be put out into the world in a way that isn't going to put them in the best light.

This is pretty much akin to everything you say to your friends being recorded and then put up on facebook, against your wishes, and then me saying how would that hurt your chances of getting a job?

~Jason
 

kiff

That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash
Jan 19, 2008
3,793
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Tx.
www.desert-conflict.org
How about the fact that people who collaborate with the US are getting their names printed in public? Not only does it jeopardize the lives of those people trying to get rid of things like the Taliban, but it reduces the likelihood of people cooperating in the future.
or Iraqi (or afgh?) officials that travel with with millions of dollars. revealing that certainly couldn't cause any problems.
 

Zarniwoop

is cool
Jan 20, 2008
1,402
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Ceredigion, UK
Secret diplomacy vs open covenants. Realism vs liberal-internationalism. Cables vs E-mails. Tea vs Coffee.

These are the debates that affect our lives on the most personal level.

Coffee ****ing sucks!
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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I pretty much agree with dragonfliet here. I have nothing against trying to keep the government honest. In fact, I think a lot of what has been leaked should have simply been available from the government at any time (indeed, a lot of it was. I'm not sure I expect the government to show and announce every document the public has access to since the freedom of information act).

The thing is, the "founder" of WikiLeaks is a criminal (and thanks to his leakage an internationally wanted criminal), and has continually showed much more interest in sensationalizing specific stories that only the few interested people want to know about. The video earlier this year is the prime example. He was interviewed and such about that leak several times, his bias about the situation was clear, yet he didn't know or care about the context or information surrounding the video at all - that all came out in response to his leak. I don't think the impetus for what he is doing has anything to do with doing the right thing and has everything to do with him being an attention whore and wanting traffic on his wiki that was, at one time, one of the least interesting (and probably least visited) wikis on the internet.