The end of the world is nigh ... in three days ?

[Azura]

The guys over at CERN (the same guys that brought you Teh Web(R) ) will be firing a particle beam along the full length of the Large Hadron Collider on the 10th. The first collision attempt to uncover the subparticle named the Boson is set for October.

According to some individuals this will create a micro black hole and a complaint has been put through to the european court of human rights on grounds that this would pose a risk to member states.

The experiment is going to take place anyway. One question remains as to what will happen if all this expensive equipment comes up with nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

[toniglandyl]

heard about it.
should have been today or tomorrow though.

[BillyBadAss]

I'm not really worried. They have built others (though not this big) since the 70's and nothing even close to that has happened. Anyway, if it does happen we will all be sucked into it so fast you won't even have realized it had happened.

[Cowlike]

From what I read it would take at least months in the worst case scenario

[IronMonkey]

One question remains as to what will happen if all this expensive equipment comes up with nothing.

"nothing" is a very important find as it brings into question significant elements of recent physics.

"nothing" is most definitely not a failure.

[Rambowjo]

CERN pointed out, that particle collisions like the ones that are gonna happen in the LHC, are taking place all the time in the outer atmosphere of Earth and that hasn't killed us so far, so I'd say no worries.

[Wormbo]

Yup, that's a very good point, but often overlooked by critics of the project.

[Selerox]

I love the way physicists try to sound like they know what they're on about. 99.9999999% of everything they do is based on nothing but guesswork and at best estimates.

The whole thing has shades of Half-Life in there ;)

[8-4-7-2]

They're looking for the Higgs Boson specifically. Other bosons, like the W+ and Z bosons have already been discovered. Photons are bosons as well. The Higgs is theorized to be the exchange particle for mass. Its discovery would explain why particles have mass.

As for the black holes. The way I understand, they would be sub-microscopic and immediately decay into hawking radiation. They wouldn't have enough mass to destroy anything, let alone the whole planet.

[JaFO]

CERN pointed out, that particle collisions like the ones that are gonna happen in the LHC, are taking place all the time in the outer atmosphere of Earth and that hasn't killed us so far, so I'd say no worries.

So ?
Just because the random collisions in our atmosphere haven't killed us (yet) there's no real reason to consider it 'totally safe and mostly harmless'.

Especially considering that because of the rarity of such collisions we don't know anything of the possible consequences.

They said the same thing about the atomic bomb (some theories said the universe would explode ...) ... and I think that even though the world survived it would have been better if no one had opened that Pandora's box.

We've only got this one planet ... let's be careful with experiments that could destroy life as we know it.

[thewalkingman]

Incoming alternative universe!

[ant75]

The only thing that comforts me is that, if i die because of the unfortunate result of this scientific experience, the whole will be destroyed too, so it's not like it'd be missing out on something.

[Big-Al]

i think it's exciting and if the world disappears into a black hole, i just wanna be holding my girlfriends hands when it happens.

[dragonfliet]

So ?
Just because the random collisions in our atmosphere haven't killed us (yet) there's no real reason to consider it 'totally safe and mostly harmless'.

Especially considering that because of the rarity of such collisions we don't know anything of the possible consequences.

They said the same thing about the atomic bomb (some theories said the universe would explode ...) ... and I think that even though the world survived it would have been better if no one had opened that Pandora's box.

We've only got this one planet ... let's be careful with experiments that could destroy life as we know it.

Considering that it has happened trillions of times, I'd say a trillion and 1 doesn't really matter.

Plus, I LIKE nice, clean, efficient nuclear energy, thank you very much.


Finally:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/large_hadron_collider.png

~Jason

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

Meh.

I've had a good run.

[(GR)Killer]

Here's to a black hole taking us inside it's belly.:D

[Jackal]

I think that it won't go off at all.

Either some alien race will approach Earth letting us know NOT to turn the thing on because we will all die, and if we try, they will kill us or destroy the thing.

or

Some crazy white preacher guy will put on a costume and pretend to be a worker, only to blow it all up with a vest full of C4 (ala Contact)

Or they forget to pay the power bill and it shuts down.

[thewalkingman]

I think that it won't go off at all.

Either some alien race will approach Earth letting us know NOT to turn the thing on because we will all die, and if we try, they will kill us or destroy the thing.

or

Some crazy white preacher guy will put on a costume and pretend to be a worker, only to blow it all up with a vest full of C4 (ala Contact)

Or they forget to pay the power bill and it shuts down.



You forgot to mention a naked Arnold Schwarzenegger dematerializing in front of a biker bar.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

:O

WAT!

Can i have a source of this story please azura?

[Matfei]

Or they forget to pay the power bill and it shuts down.

Lol! :lol:

[(GR)Killer]

I think that it won't go off at all.

Either some alien race will approach Earth letting us know NOT to turn the thing on because we will all die, and if we try, they will kill us or destroy the thing.

or

Some crazy white preacher guy will put on a costume and pretend to be a worker, only to blow it all up with a vest full of C4 (ala Contact)

Or they forget to pay the power bill and it shuts down.

Alien race will tell us not to do it? i seriously doubt they would even know what we are doing in the first place.

[Jackal]

Why wouldn't they? If they can observe us from space undetected or with a telescope, they probably know what's going on.

Don't you ever watch Star Trek?

They are probably super smart with technobable and know that if we turn it on, it will kill us all and possibly the galaxy and they don't like that idea so they came to stop us. Kinda like how we invade countries that want to learn about nuclear power.

[(GR)Killer]

Space, the final frontier.

[ilkman]

I guess we would have something to be afraid of if something like a black hole existed in the first place.

Black holes tear logic apart. (http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=tyybhrr8)

The Madness of Black Holes. (http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=qwk0u6cc)

These two articles call into question the silly and nonsensical idea of black holes. By relation they also call into question the misguided and problematic nature of physics today.

I suggest reading both articles completely through before formulating an opinion and discrediting them.

Also, just to prevent someone from saying "What? You doubt these super mathematical physicists? Like you're as smart as they are?", well these articles are also written by such physicists but they don't conform to the 'norm'.

[Azura]

:O

WAT!

Can i have a source of this story please azura?

Here's one article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7468966.stm

[gregori]

i think it's exciting and if the world disappears into a black hole, i just wanna be holding my girlfriends hands when it happens.

Don't worry : You and your girlfriend will both occupy a single point in space when it happens. How much more together do you wanna be? :D

[Underscore]

I guess we would have something to be afraid of if something like a black hole existed in the first place.

Black holes tear logic apart. (http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=tyybhrr8)

The Madness of Black Holes. (http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=qwk0u6cc)

These two articles call into question the silly and nonsensical idea of black holes. By relation they also call into question the misguided and problematic nature of physics today.

I suggest reading both articles completely through before formulating an opinion and discrediting them.

Also, just to prevent someone from saying "What? You doubt these super mathematical physicists? Like you're as smart as they are?", well these articles are also written by such physicists but they don't conform to the 'norm'.

okay let's do the first one


In steps one and three physicists are generally far from perfect. In the first step, the “when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” tendency is a trap. For example, Eddington applied an inappropriate model of gas behavior inside stars that allowed him to dismiss electrical effects. In the second step there is a tendency in astrophysics for the mathematics to run into infinities. A process euphemistically called “renormalization” is used to deal with this problem. But as any high school student knows, there is nothing normal about infinity. Introducing infinity into an equation, effectively dividing by zero, allows you to “prove” that 1 = 2.


It's worth noting that dividing by zero doesn't result in infinity. Instead, the actual value of 1/x if x=0 is undefined, but it's said to tend towards infinity as x tends towards zero. The article treats this as the same thing, but it's not: it's a subtle distinction, and it's hard to take the author seriously if they're writing about astrophysics but don't understand it.


Running into infinities in mathematical models should result in questioning the appropriateness of the model and the limits of its applicability. However, astrophysicists simply plug in a measured result and carry on. But it is the last step that exposes physicists at their worst. Here, they use words or phrases, which have real meaning, in a whimsical or sloppy way when they mean something more mathematically abstruse. For example, using the word “dimension” when referring to more than the three spatial dimensions, as if a ruler can also be used to measure the extra dimensions. It gives rise to terms like four-dimensional “warped space” and “space-time,” or sometimes that weird cloth, the “fabric of space-time.” We also have the logically indefensible “parallel universe.” None make physical or logical sense.

This is what the word 'dimension' means. The author seems to think only spatial dimensions should be called that, but that's not how the word is actually used. Since time exists, and because distinct events can occupy the same point in space but different points in time, time is considered a dimension. Spacetime is a word that's part of relativity and has been well accepted by essentially everyone for very many years.

Exotic theoretical objects like neutron stars and black holes are impossible.

Both of those things have been observed, so clearly they're not

In the second step, one infinity is used to counter another. Infinities abound in the literature on black holes. The infinitely weak force of gravity is balanced by postulating an almost infinitely dense object – the black hole.

Gravity isn't infinitely weak, and it's easy to perform an experiment to show that it isn't: dropping things cause them to fall to the ground. Alternatively, examining things like the moon reveal that they orbit other things. This has been fairly well known for centuries.

The phrase, “region of spacetime” is physically meaningless and results from a confused use of the word “time” and a nonsensical notion that gravity is a property of empty space instead of matter.

You can't describe regions of space independently of time in relativity, because they affect each other (like, if you cross enough space in some sufficiently small amount of time, time and space both change in your reference frame).


But most damning is that the narrow training of astrophysicists does not allow them to “see” the powerful electric discharge effects at the centers of galaxies. The x-rays, gamma rays, jets and radio lobes cry out for an electrical model. By simply invoking the electrical force, which is a thousand trillion trillion trillion times stronger than gravity, we can return to the realm of normal objects, normal physics, and common sense electrical engineering.


ah okay let's hang up physics then, we should describe space by electrical engineering

None of that even makes any sense at all and doesn't appear to have been written by someone who knows anything about what they're talking about. This is a common problem when you believe things written by people who are nuts.

The second article is just someone complaining about how people shouldn't be allowed to use maths, with some completely random figures thrown in to make it look legitimate

[Jackal]

Black holes do exsist.

Just ask your mom about her gapping VAGINA.

[dotnetbeast]

Meh.

[BillyBadAss]

i think it's exciting and if the world disappears into a black hole, i just wanna be holding my girlfriends hands when it happens.

Sure you can. Mine is 6000 miles away. :mad: (yes really)

[thewalkingman]

Sure you can. Mine is 6000 miles away. :mad: (yes really)

Yes but when space folds onto itself....

[Matfei]

Lol, internet relationship?

[16MentalTempest]

Well, if I die all of a sudden, I'll be glad I devoted so much time and energy into something I would never have used in the future anyway (mapping). :rolleyes:

[ilkman]

stuff

You have to take into consideration that the author comes at this from the idea that the universe is electrical in nature, not gravitational.

If the universe is in fact electrical in nature, then it proves a lot of his points. Gravity, when compared to electricity is infinitely weaker. Just take a look at superconductivity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductivity) for an example. A video of a superconductor defying gravity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VGACLNfZ8s).

All those other things, neutron stars, and black holes are identified by their symptoms, not by direct observation. The things physicists use to identify them are things like X-rays and Gama rays, which can also be generated by electrical and magnetic fields.
So that suggests that it is not a black hole but something else.

Thats heresy you say! Is it?

Lets remove math and physics and all that other stuff from the equation for a second. What does gravity do? It holds us on the planet and keeps the bodies in space orbiting eachother. While significant, there isn't much there.

Now what about electricity? Our lives depend on it today! Its everywhere. We see it in the atmosphere, on other planets (http://www.physorg.com/news5790.html), and other planets (http://www.springerlink.com/content/q75847204291j2hh/), in volcanoes, we use it extensively in our lives, and its even in space connecting earth to the sun (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm). And before you jump on that last one as not being electric, I'll just say that magnetic fields require electricity to generate them. And also Nasa's "magnetic ropes" are surprisingly similar to Birkeland Currents (http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.php/Birkeland_current) which were discovered by Kristian Birkeland.

I'd say that electricity is surprisingly prevalent in the universe. Where does the electricity come from you ask? Well, where does gravity come from? Warping the space/time fabric? Sub-atomic particles? Nothing has been discovered or proved. I guess that is what they are hoping to discover with the Higgs-boson.

No, what they have are mathematical models, but no definite proof. They see the symptoms, but not the object itself. They conjure up a lot of imaginary stuff to explain inconsistencies in their theories and models. I guess that is what you get when you depend on a gravity only model and keep trying to adapt it to new discoveries that it cannot explain, especially when these new discoveries conform surprisingly well to electrical phenomenon that CAN be replicated in laboratories and do not have to reply on pure math alone to prove their existence. That is one of the big problems the author was getting.

You can read more (http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/00archive.htm) about how well some 'unexplainable' things in space can be explained using electrical and plasma physics.


I'm not trying to say math is wrong or we cannot use math in physics. No, math is a perfect system. The problem is when you give a perfect system to an imperfect user, humans. Because of the imperfect user the perfect system cannot be perfect. There will be flaws based on our own ignorance.

I'm not saying you have to believe everything. Just keep an open mind to new ideas. Isn't that the whole point of science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method)? Trying to discover new things? Try new ideas? Experiment!

To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.[2]

Based on the way things are done currently, I'd say a lot of the scientific method is missing.

Why the electric universe matters. (http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/08aug/electricuniverse.html) A good read.

But anyways, DOOM AND GLOOM!

[bengreenwood]

It's like anything... what happens, what you do, what you think, etc. It all just depends how the universe turns out to be made up (nobody really knows yet). Our genes trick us into thinking we know more stuff than we really do.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

/me packs his lunch, torch and compass ready for a worm hole trip

[Matfei]

WORMHOLE X-TREEEEEEME

[Dante]

The whole thing has shades of Half-Life in there ;)

You mean like this:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3807/lhcoz5.jpg

[BillyBadAss]

Lol, internet relationship?

You've asked this before. Nope. We met in real life then she moved back to Japan. Read here for the full story (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason935/2761577200/).

[Vitamin-Carrot]

awww thats too much reading

[Matfei]

Oh right, I forgot that was you with the Japanese girl.

I've got a bad memory.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

You mean like this:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/3807/lhcoz5.jpg

Dante this needs to go tot he funny pic thread ASAP!

[Big-Al]

Don't worry : You and your girlfriend will both occupy a single point in space when it happens. How much more together do you wanna be? :D

see now I WANT this to happen \o/

[Wormbo]

(stuff he's probably found in a fortune cookie)
There's a fundamental problem with seeing the electromagnetic interaction as the dominant force of the universe: Positive and negative current compensate each other. Yes, electromagnetism is much stronger than gravitation and both have infinite range. However, gravity always attracts, while electromagnetism may also repulse, depending on the currents. For this reason, a superconducting material can "defy" gravity on short range , but never really "play out" its theoretically infinite range.

[Lruce Bee]

I seem to recall an episode in Star Trek The Next Generation where they discover that the use of warp speed basically altered the very fabric of time and space with pockets of freakyness dotted about all over the universe (all irreversable if I remember correctly)
So forgive me if I say that tinkering with the building blocks of the universe with any degree of certainty makes me a little sceptical.
Having said that, in order to make the breakthroughs required to propel humanity into tomorrow, this stuff has to be done....................in the name of science and progress you understand.

Lruce

[Big-Al]

^agreed, not like we have much to loose anyway, the planet's pretty much screwed at this point anyway, what with pollution & global warming and all.

[Defeat]

I want them to do it.

[Matfei]

BLOW US UP! GO ON! DO IT!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHHAHHAHAHHHAAHAHAAA!!!

[UBerserker]

I want them to do it.

I'm sooooo with you. This is freaking amazing! :-)

[Underscore]

All those other things, neutron stars, and black holes are identified by their symptoms, not by direct observation. The things physicists use to identify them are things like X-rays and Gama rays, which can also be generated by electrical and magnetic fields.

You can tell certain things exist by looking at the radiation coming from them, but that's exactly the same way you tell that ordinary things exist: you look at them and examine the radiation scattered off them. This is how vision works. Does that mean that there's no proof the monitor you're looking at exists? After all, you can only see the light it produces or that's scattered off its surface.

Lets remove math and physics and all that other stuff from the equation for a second. What does gravity do? It holds us on the planet and keeps the bodies in space orbiting eachother. While significant, there isn't much there.


If you remove maths and physics from astrophysics, you're not left with an awful lot. :(

I'd say that electricity is surprisingly prevalent in the universe. Where does the electricity come from you ask? Well, where does gravity come from? Warping the space/time fabric? Sub-atomic particles? Nothing has been discovered or proved. I guess that is what they are hoping to discover with the Higgs-boson.

Electricity is everywhere, but what you're seemingly proposing is that gravity doesn't exist and everything is explainable by electromagnetic forces, which isn't a very well-developed idea. In order for it to be of any use, the websites you're presenting need to explain exactly what their theory predicts or explains that current ones don't, rather than just complaining about how mean everyone is because they won't listen.

I'm not trying to say math is wrong or we cannot use math in physics. No, math is a perfect system. The problem is when you give a perfect system to an imperfect user, humans. Because of the imperfect user the perfect system cannot be perfect. There will be flaws based on our own ignorance.

This is the standard 'people are occasionally wrong, therefore science is useless' argument, we've seen this before

I'm not saying you have to believe everything. Just keep an open mind to new ideas. Isn't that the whole point of science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method)? Trying to discover new things? Try new ideas? Experiment!

Of course! It's good to have alternative theories, but it's silly to believe fervently in one that's not supported by experiment.

In order for people to take you seriously, you need to present credible sources, rather than websites written by people who sound completely crazy. Some sort of published source written by somebody who sounds like they know what they're talking about would help a lot.

[shadow_dragon]

Shouldn't we be doing these sorts of experiments... on a space station.... or on some other planet or something by now?

[Wormbo]

The mere size of the experiment prevents it from being done anywhere else than a location reachable by cranes and trucks. Also, outside the earth's atmosphere/magnetosphere there would be a lot of "stray" radiation from the sun, not to mention cosmic radiation, all messing up the experiment which relies on a known energy of the particles involved in the collision.

[ant75]

Don't worry : You and your girlfriend will both occupy a single point in space when it happens. How much more together do you wanna be? :D

Does it mean that my particules will merge with you guys' particules ? No thank you.

[Wormbo]

You don't want to be together with us? :(

[das_ben]

So... how many actual scientists specialized in the field does it take to refute the inane claims that the experiment poses any tangible danger?

[Wormbo]

Well, how many scientists specialized in the field of the LHC experiments actually voiced their concerns? Is there even a single scientist with knowledge of that part of physics among those who raised the concerns in the first place?

BTW: The concerns about the a-bomb causing a chain reaction in the atmosphere's nitrogen were caused by inaccurate approximations when the top secret experimental conditions were abstracted so external scientists could be allowed to project potential risks of the uncontrolled nuclear fission reaction.

[das_ben]

As far as I'm aware, yes, but they have been refuted and now there's a broad concensus that there's no danger to speak of attached to the experiment.

[Matfei]

So now that we know it's 100% safe, lets build a luge circuit in the pipes and turn it on!

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I'm sooooo with you. This is freaking amazing! :-)

That is your 1337 post btw. Congrats. :D

[8-4-7-2]

Again why should it pose any real danger?

The black hole hysteria is mostly complete BS. As said, even if black holes are created, they are very, very, very, very small. One figure I read, was almost on an atomic scale. Just what are they supposed to suck up? They'll exist for a few nano- or micro-seconds maybe.

People go "Whaaa black holes??!?! It'll suck us all into it". But the size of a black hole depends on the mass that went into its creation. These would be very tiny and very short-lived. That's mostly why scientists say that there is an approximately 0% chance of anything going wrong. Again, that's if any are even created, which isn't a sure thing either.

[Balton]

about damn time! I'm anxious to know what they'll find out in CERN.

[NeoNite]

I've been keeping a close eye on progress on the LHC. I'm also anxious to know what they'll find. As for the black hole scare, don't be silly.

[Unreality]

41

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

Are we dead yet?

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

This is all bull****, taht thing should be stopped. Not to mention who knows what goes wrong and if terrorists won't take control of this.

[Matfei]

^ Pssh.

It's ****ing awesome.

[N1ghtmare]

This is all bull****, taht thing should be stopped. Not to mention who knows what goes wrong and if terrorists won't take control of this.

Because terrorists totally want to create a black hole and kill us all...

[Wormbo]

Oh yeah, I don't want to imagine what will happen if terrorists find the Higgs boson...

[Vitamin-Carrot]

This is all bull****, taht thing should be stopped. Not to mention who knows what goes wrong and if terrorists won't take control of this.

enhance your calm john spartan

[-Zer0-]

This is all bull****, taht thing should be stopped. Not to mention who knows what goes wrong and if terrorists won't take control of this.

wut D:

[Rambowjo]

Osama bin Laden was last seen in Switzerland.

[Zxanphorian]

Yeah, and he found out that he can resurrect Saddam Hussein with the LHC.

[JaFO]

So now that we know it's 100% safe, lets build a luge circuit in the pipes and turn it on!

Sure ... and the Titanic was unsinkable ...

I wonder how many accidents started with the words : 'but it was 100% safe to ... '.

Just because the chance of exploding into nothiness is next to 0 in probability does not mean we're safe.

If we were 100,000000000% sure of the results then there'd be no reason to conduct the experiment to begin with.

I'd rather have the world end because mother Nature decided our luck had run out instead of a bunch of scientists trying to 'understand everything'.

Some things really should be left to theory.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

Sure ... and the Titanic was unsinkable ...

I wonder how many accidents started with the words : 'but it was 100% safe to ... '.

Just because the chance of exploding into nothiness is next to 0 in probability does not mean we're safe.

If we were 100,000000000% sure of the results then there'd be no reason to conduct the experiment to begin with.

I'd rather have the world end because mother Nature decided our luck had run out instead of a bunch of scientists trying to 'understand everything'.

Some things really should be left to theory.

Then we wouldnt learn anything

[Zxanphorian]

Also not learning anything would lead to the world ending in religious wars!

[Wormbo]

The LHC is no particle collider and neither any other type of physics experiment. Its only purpose it to attract all the technophobia on this small world so scientists can work on Half-Life-style experiments elsewhere without getting any media attention. :tinfoil3:

[Hadmar]

41
+1






If I ever want to commit suicide having "shot himself with a miniature black hole" written on my tombstone would be hella cool.

[gregori]

Does it mean that my particules will merge with you guys' particules ? No thank you.

Whats wrong with our particles?

[Rambowjo]

Sure ... and the Titanic was unsinkable ...

I wonder how many accidents started with the words : 'but it was 100% safe to ... '.

Just because the chance of exploding into nothiness is next to 0 in probability does not mean we're safe.

If we were 100,000000000% sure of the results then there'd be no reason to conduct the experiment to begin with.

I'd rather have the world end because mother Nature decided our luck had run out instead of a bunch of scientists trying to 'understand everything'.

Some things really should be left to theory.

Spoiler: You're being ignorant to the gravity of how completely unrealistic the idea of "microscopic blackholes killing us" is. The only reason it exists, is because somebody at CERN mentioned that they might be spawned. Let's put it like this: the chance of a blackhole (that is spawned by the LHC) killing everyone is as big as the chance of your cellphone getting hit by a photon and then suddenly start a chain-reaction of fusions, destroying you and everything in 10 miles range.

It won't happen.

[Underscore]

Sure ... and the Titanic was unsinkable ...

I wonder how many accidents started with the words : 'but it was 100% safe to ... '.

Just because the chance of exploding into nothiness is next to 0 in probability does not mean we're safe.

Exciting newsflash: we're never absolutely safe ever. The chance of some castastrophic collision with an asteroid is moderately small but nonzero, and close encounters have happened in the past. Even the chance of everyone spontaneously exploding is vanishingly small, but it is at least possible. Neither of those things have happened and nobody is going crazy worrying about them because the risks involved are tiny.

The chance of dying in a road accident or some similar common but often-underestimated risk is very many orders of magnitude greater than asteroid-related disasters, which are in turn billions of times more probable than the hypothesised disaster situations in the LHC. The chance that a disaster could occur in the LHC while also never having occurred in history with similar experiments or high-energy collisions in the upper atmosphere is smaller even than this.

[BillyBadAss]

These videos are really good about what they are going to study and debunking the worries. Check it out. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25356219/

[ilkman]

So maybe you don't believe in a theory suggesting an electrical universe, no problem, but since the topic here is the concern over black holes....

Mathematical proof that black holes do not exist. (http://thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/guest1.htm)
Also here. (http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/mathematician-claims-black-holes-are-result-bad-math)
An excellent tertiary resource. (http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/index.html)

He points out the area where the idea of black holes came from. It was a corruption of an original equation that did not predict them. An error that was left to fester.

It also points out flaws and inconsistencies in Einsteins theory of relativity both special and general.

Einstein, while smart, was not the perfect god figure of math and physics that people today would have us believe.

From the third resource:
They must also label Einstein a crackpot, because Einstein always rejected the idea of the black hole, claiming in his research papers and other writings that it is not physical, and that singularities in the field nullify the theory of General Relativity.

From the first resource:
...So LIGO and its international counterparts such as the AIGO in Australia and VIRGO in Europe, are all destined to detect nothing; and the black hole is not predicted by General Relativity.

Read the FULL articles for quotes as there are just too many for me to put in here that I wish to show.

HERESY! Burn the heretic!

So what is the problem? Well a large part of it is the suppression of new ideas (http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html). The scientific world is no less corrupt and afraid of new things then any other. Its not the bastion of enlightenment and perfection that some would hope (http://www.suppressedscience.net/). Various cases of censorship (http://www.suppressedscience.net/censorship-medicine.html). In Physics (http://www.suppressedscience.net/physics.html).

Why could you possibly want to suppress and censor new ideas and science? I can't exactly say as I am not amongst that league. However a big glaring reason might be the usual culprit: money, namely grant money.

I'm done. This is kind of a large tangent I went off on.

[Matfei]

Sure ... and the Titanic was unsinkable ...

I wonder how many accidents started with the words : 'but it was 100% safe to ... '.

Just because the chance of exploding into nothiness is next to 0 in probability does not mean we're safe.

If we were 100,000000000% sure of the results then there'd be no reason to conduct the experiment to begin with.

I'd rather have the world end because mother Nature decided our luck had run out instead of a bunch of scientists trying to 'understand everything'.

Some things really should be left to theory.

Jesus Christ I was just being facetious man.

[Rambowjo]

One might argue that the knowledge we get from this experiment could be used to destroy the entire universe. But that's irrelevant at this point.

[Munchables]

End of the world? Nahhhhh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk8Vr00EBHA

This dude reasured me NOTHING bad will happen. Besides, their not even going to collide the particles or what ever on Wednesday, just turn the thing on.

[Lruce Bee]

OK, so suddenly we've all become Albert Einsteins.
You can't assume anything these days.
Listen, if an actual black hole in space can suck in everything within a twenty billion mile radius then I'm pretty sure one the size of a pin head can take a packet of jammy dodgers, a toaster and maybe a few fridge magnets from the cafeteria at Swiss event horizon central.
Then again, watching cricket has the same effect on my brain strangely enough...

Lruce

[Rambowjo]

Pinhead? Try 0,0000000000000000001µm instead.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

They can't know a **** what's behind it all, it is "unknown sector" and they do better if they don't dig with it, because any dig so far has failed and badly.
Just because of some smartheads we are suddenly being endangered in a way, great really.
Yeah it's just as stupid as the experiment in half-lie.

[xMurphyx]

Yeah, lol, I read that to make a black hole out of the sun you'd have have to shrink it down to a globe with a radius of only 14km. To make a black hole out of the earth you'd have to shrink it down to a few mm³.
They don't even have enough matter at their disposal to make a pin-head sized black hole, even if they could pull it off energy wise.

[Rambowjo]

They can't know a **** what's behind it all, it is "unknown sector" and they do better if they don't dig with it, because any dig so far has failed and badly.

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't seen any blackholes destroying the world or CERN experiments going apesh­it so far.

[fuegerstef]

This is all bull****, taht thing should be stopped. Not to mention who knows what goes wrong and if terrorists won't take control of this.

Just lemme get my crowbar and you'll all be fine. :)

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't seen any blackholes destroying the world or CERN experiments going apesh­it so far.

Nope, but I meant other experiments.
And even if it's CERN, it's risc.

[BillyBadAss]

Seriously. Nothing is going to happen. They said the blackholes would be sub atomic. Black holes that you are so worried about have millions times the mass of our sun. These do't have anything hardly and would last only a fraction of a second before they collapsed on themselves.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

We don't know for sure what is going to happen I think, it can do anything else, I doubt it will destroy whole world or something, but something bad can happen while they will be doing it. Or maybe it will destroy Geneve, some explosion perhaps when it fails or who knows.

[Azura]

I read in an article in the New Scientist something about invisible black holes, some of which might even be inside our own bodies. Interesting thought.

[Lruce Bee]

Well there you have it.
For all we know we may now be residing within a parallel universe and the whole thing happened so fast we just didn't notice.
Come to think of it I'm sure I brush my hair slightly to the left but it's now on the right - wtf?

Lruce

[Rambowjo]

We don't know for sure what is going to happen I think, it can do anything else, I doubt it will destroy whole world or something, but something bad can happen while they will be doing it. Or maybe it will destroy Geneve, some explosion perhaps when it fails or who knows.

You have absolutely nothing to back up what you think. If you had just a remote idea about how physics work, you'd know that this experiment blowing up a city is impossible.

[Azura]

Black holes don't blow, they suck (litteraly).

[Balton]

Why should the collision of particles cause a black hole to form anyways(we need mass!!!)? All people claiming that this could happen should back their claims up(or read up on the theories of black holes and then come back informed).
As much as I disagree with ilkman(but dont bother to argue) he's backing up his claims and giving people the chance to argue specifically. :tup:

[Dante]

Why should the collision of particles cause a black hole to form anyways(we need mass!!!)? All people claiming that this could happen should back their claims up(or read up on the theories of black holes and then come back informed).
As much as I disagree with ilkman(but dont bother to argue) he's backing up his claims and giving people the chance to argue specifically. :tup:

Well as your speed increases, so your mass does. Because those particles are accelerated almost to the speed of light, they sort of gain a lot of mass. Can't really say anything else because I don't know much, but theoretically two particles that collide could form a galaxy, if their velocity is high enough.

[Balton]

Well as your speed increases, so your mass does. Because those particles are accelerated almost to the speed of light, they sort of gain a lot of mass. Can't really say anything else because I don't know much, but theoretically two particles that collide could form a galaxy, if their velocity is high enough.

hot damn... I totally forgot about speed of light in relation to mass. :eek:
I still think there's a constant ala "critical mass" that needs to be reached before gravity warping effects can happen. However, with no proper explanation or theory over the cause and effect of gravity all this is in need of some proper testing/evaluation through the LHC.
If we untangle the mistery of gravity faster than light travel will be one step closer(or several steps further away).

[8-4-7-2]

The particles don't weigh a lot, but they do have some mass. We aren't talking about mass-less photons, but protons.

[Underscore]

So maybe you don't believe in a theory suggesting an electrical universe, no problem, but since the topic here is the concern over black holes....

Mathematical proof that black holes do not exist. (http://thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/guest1.htm)
Also here. (http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/mathematician-claims-black-holes-are-result-bad-math)
An excellent tertiary resource. (http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/index.html)


All three of these are talking about the same thing: one person who claims to have a proof that black holes are impossible, and a list of rejections from various people. So they are not separate sources.


So what is the problem? Well a large part of it is the suppression of new ideas (http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html). The scientific world is no less corrupt and afraid of new things then any other. Its not the bastion of enlightenment and perfection that some would hope (http://www.suppressedscience.net/). Various cases of censorship (http://www.suppressedscience.net/censorship-medicine.html). In Physics (http://www.suppressedscience.net/physics.html).

Why could you possibly want to suppress and censor new ideas and science? I can't exactly say as I am not amongst that league. However a big glaring reason might be the usual culprit: money, namely grant money.

I'm done. This is kind of a large tangent I went off on.

Perhaps you've read through the proof and think it's fine, but I wouldn't understand it at all. But the existence of somebody claiming to be able to prove something is not good evidence that they're right. For any given ridiculous claim, it's often possible to find more than one person who believes in it.

In subjects like maths and physics it's particularly easy to pull something like this. Since there are only a relatively small number of people who could prove you wrong, it's easy to just claim that those people are evil and are trying to suppress your ideas, which is exactly what this person is doing.

[Zaccix]

The BBC's got a website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/) about the LHC experiment. Listen live on Radio 4 as the world enters oblivion! ;)

(Yes, I know it's very unlikely that we'll get sucked into a black hole tomorrow. I just like screwing with the "END IS NIGH!!!!" theories).

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

So the experiment is going down tomorrow.

Which diety should I pray to? I think my soul needs saving and the lake of fire doesn't sound very inviting.

Unless it's a metaphor for a gigantic jacuzzi.

[ilkman]

...

Well, I think I'm done now. I'll let you guys read about it and decide for yourselves what you think.

I for one have read extensively both sides of the argument, and also about different theories. After all that, I've made up my mind on what I think is true in certain areas, not all, but a few. Black holes not existing is one of those things I believe.

[Underscore]

After all that, I've made up my mind on what I think is true in certain areas, not all, but a few. Black holes not existing is one of those things I believe.

What puzzles me is that you seem to have just decided arbitrarily how you want things to be, and then started to believe things really are that way, regardless of any external evidence. That seems to me like a very odd way to behave.

[KaL976]

So the experiment is going down tomorrow.

Which diety should I pray to? I think my soul needs saving and the lake of fire doesn't sound very inviting.

Unless it's a metaphor for a gigantic jacuzzi.

afaik they're just going to send a one way stream later today to see if it makes it all the way around the track. the actual collision experiments aren't due to start until october 21st iirc

[Nereid]

Black holes not existing is one of those things I believe.

lol

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

afaik they're just going to send a one way stream later today to see if it makes it all the way around the track. the actual collision experiments aren't due to start until october 21st iirc

So now I gotta' wait around to die??

Shucks. We need a smiley which twiddles its thumbs. I would use it right here.

[ilkman]

What puzzles me is that you seem to have just decided arbitrarily how you want things to be, and then started to believe things really are that way, regardless of any external evidence. That seems to me like a very odd way to behave.

Well, like I've said I've read extensively both arguments. So its not like my decision was misinformed.

And I'd hardly say there is a lack of evidence. I've just linked to a bunch of evidence that sits in a contrary position to the mainstream thinking. The last one mathematically proving the non-existence of black holes. Like any good researcher does I'll search around and see if anyone has disproven this guy yet, but if not, then what? Is he right?

So far, based on reading his website, he has presented his evidence to numerous pier revue establishments and professors of math and physics. So far most of them refuse to even try to disprove it, and the ones that do try fail. (http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/BHLetters.html)

I would think that if someone comes up with evidence that disproves a major element of the scientific community, one that would shake up the very foundation of our established science today, we wouldn't take it lightly.

In the end this guy says he is right, that guy says he is right. What do you do? Weigh the evidence as presented by both sides and pick one. Which is exactly as I have done.

Besides, I don't care what you say, leaving all the math and physics behind for a second, to me the idea of a black hole just doesn't stand to reason.

[Original9]

It's not 2012. Calm down. You've got another 4 years.


Sheesh.

[SlayerDragon]

Besides, I don't care what you say, leaving all the math and physics behind for a second, to me the idea of a black hole just doesn't stand to reason.

When you say things like this, it doesn't help you.

[meowcat]

It's not 2012. Calm down. You've got another 4 years.


Sheesh.
Isn't that for the invasion, not the end of the world.... :)

[fuegerstef]

What puzzles me is that you seem to have just decided arbitrarily how you want things to be, and then started to believe things really are that way, regardless of any external evidence. That seems to me like a very odd way to behave.

How many people in this world are religous people? It isn't that odd for the masses out there.

[Lruce Bee]

And the theological train turns up just in time.............no pun intended.

Lruce (who is at this very moment being compressed into infinate space)

[Wormbo]

To summarize it: We're all going to die by the wrath of god who'll push us into a black hole for not believing that black holes do not exist. The only exceptions will be ilkman and the guy he's quoting - they will die from electric shock by the non-black-hole that killed everyone else. :con:

[UBerserker]

They have already activated it.

[Wormbo]

But they only send protons around one way. No collisions for now.

[Azura]

Well as your speed increases, so your mass does. Because those particles are accelerated almost to the speed of light, they sort of gain a lot of mass. Can't really say anything else because I don't know much, but theoretically two particles that collide could form a galaxy, if their velocity is high enough.

Hmm, I'd have been tempted to say the same.

However, someone explained that there's a misconception behind the idea of a body of mass gaining in matter as it goes faster due to way physicists have tried to simplify or vulgarize a phenomenon. In car accidents, a vehicle at a speed of x km/h is sometimes compared to an object having the equivalent of a mass of y kilos which is a bit silly because it's the same car.

I think it's better to say that a material object needs considerate amounts of energy to reach the speed of light and that a collision would produce kinetic energy that would make it appear as having close to infinite mass. Such an object would cause a massive explosion if it hit another due to interaction with other forces.

[Hadmar]

So what's going to happen is that first those thingies collide with ludicrous speed which causes a nukular extra-plosion which then for some yet unknown reason inverts into a shaded hole that sucks some more thingies into it. Through that it gains mass until it reaches adulthood and becomes a black hole that starts sucking in everything. Once there's nothing left in this universe and all matter is concentrated in the BH this universe can't support the weight of all the parallel universes anymore and collapses while at the same time the BH gets a tantrum and explodes because there's no food left for it. And thus the universe is re-created with a bang that's noiseless because there's nothing yet to transport the sound waves.

I'm glad we are slowly getting to the bottom of this.

[B]

I'm still here! \o/

[Azura]

So what's going to happen is that first those thingies collide with ludicrous speed which causes a nukular extra-plosion which then for some yet unknown reason inverts into a shaded hole that sucks some more thingies into it. Through that it gains mass until it reaches adulthood and becomes a black hole that starts sucking in everything. Once there's nothing left in this universe and all matter is concentrated in the BH this universe can't support the weight of all the parallel universes anymore and collapses while at the same time the BH gets a tantrum and explodes because there's no food left for it. And thus the universe is re-created with a bang that's noiseless because there's nothing yet to transport the sound waves.

I'm glad we are slowly getting to the bottom of this.

I can imagine the scenario right now.

"Man at cern triggers black hole to get see how it compares with his girlfriend and vacuum cleaner. New universe created".

[Hadmar]

Dang, I knew I should have chosen scientist as career.

[Wormbo]

Hmm, let's put aside all worries and impropabilities for a while. What would happen to the solar system if a black hole swallowed the earth?
For obvious reasons the black hole's initial upper limit for its mass would be the earth's mass. The next object to be affected would be the moon, but would it actually be affected? And if so, would it be sucked in or would it sling-shot out?
The original center of the black hole would be near the earth's surface. Would it move to the earth's center while taking in material from the surrounding area or stay pretty much in the same location?
And on a broader scale, would it affect other planets in the solar system?

[xMurphyx]

If you convert the earth to a black hole the size of a pin head (I don't know how, but suppose you did) it would still have the mass of the earth and not more. It would also just have the gravity of the earth and not more. So the rest of the solar system won't be affected by it, I guess.

[Trynant]

More xkcd goodness:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/turn-on.png (http://xkcd.com/474/)

[8-4-7-2]

That strip actually actually contains a part neglected by the mass media.

While the switching-on is certainly a monumental event, at first they're just testing the technology to see if everything works right. It will take a few weeks until the first proper collisions and then months, or rather years, to sieve through the data (of which there is an insane amount of.)

Btw, there's also a nice pun on quark names in there :)

[K]

You notice google page today? :lol:
http://www.google.com/logos/lhc.gif

[Dracomir]

Seriously.

http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

[NeoNite]

^ lol

51 days to go before the next test. I wonder which mysteries the LHC will possibly unravel.

[N1ghtmare]

^ lol

51 days to go before the next test. I wonder which mysteries the LHC will possibly unravel.

But I want the secrets of the universe now!

If I were the guy who was going to push the button I would first say "STAND BACK! I'm going to try science!"

[Vitamin-Carrot]

But I want the secrets of the universe now!

If I were the guy who was going to push the button I would first say "STAND BACK! I'm going to try science!"

Ten Monies says they are really trying to make better toast

:lol:

[Matfei]

That would be some kickarse toast.

[EZE TC]

Well I for 1 was very disapointed
First Msn stops working (spooky) then my firefox spell check (sorry)
THEN to top it all no Zombie ridden apocolypse (spell check plz)
has the sun newspaper lied to me, has it lied to me before and I havent noticed due to boobie blindness
whats wrong with the world when we can't trust the press
Whats next Fern britton not eating Ryvita

[N1ghtmare]

YES THE ZOMBIES ARE COMING
I CAN SEE THEM HEADING TO YOUR HOUSE
THEY HAVE ALREADY BITTEN ME I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME LEEEEEFFFFFTOkhgfohlpfkgpo
fligrath lm brainz odjpas mwraawrar blooodbrainsapo xdk graaaaaaaaaaaawr

[dotnetbeast]

*takes a puff*


*cough cough*


More important things out there.

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

Don't just stand there pass the blunt.

[Matfei]

I just have interject this into a thread...

That's a sweet sweet guitar Jacks. What sort? Loving the bat inlays and purple + gold scheme. Really Sets off.

[igNiTion]

Webcam view from inside the LHC: http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

[Rambowjo]

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

[Defeat]

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

Also is this real?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=629454

So when nothing bad happens we can all laugh at India. D:

[Matfei]

Well looks like she was smart enough to euthanise herself for the good of mankind.

[Rambowjo]

You can't euthanise yourself, Matfei.

[Matfei]

Well insert some cool word for suicide then.

It just made the world a little bit better.

[Plumb_Drumb]

"In the past two days, Chayya had asked me and other relatives about the world coming to an end on September 10," Biharilal was quoted as saying.
"We tried to divert her attention and told her she should not worry about such things, but to no avail," he said.



Yeah, the world isn't ending until 2012. We have plenty of time to party.

[Matfei]

What's happening in 2012 Plumb?

I don't tend to bother reading about 'omgzdoomsdayrun' stuff, but you've piqued my curiousity

[Plumb_Drumb]

Oh just some ancient South American (the ones who pretty much invented modern time calculation) calendar ends on 2012 so a bunch of people thing that's the end of the world, hehe.

Maybe it was the Aztec? I can't remember.

[Matfei]

Oh right yeah, the Mayan or Aztec calendar.

Totally forgot about that. Sounds like Y2K all over again though. Nothing will happen.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I never believed in the 2K thingy, but 2012 sounds more probable, it was calculated by them (mayans) and they had good maths. What can we know if some object (planet?) won't cross between the sun and earth and due to the gravity earth will stop turning around for some time as some people say.
I wouldn't be so blind over that and over other things.

[BillyBadAss]

I never believed in the 2K thingy, but 2012 sounds more probable, it was calculated by them (mayans) and they had good maths. What can we know if some object (planet?) won't cross between the sun and earth and due to the gravity earth will stop turning around for some time as some people say.
I wouldn't be so blind over that and over other things.

I would because that would be insane. What ever that would be going by would be insanely house and I doubt that would be the case. If you are going to worry about something I would worry more about 4/13/2029.

[Matfei]

Which is? Lol.

As above, I've no idea about all these dates of doom.

[Balton]

I never believed in the 2K thingy, but 2012 sounds more probable, it was calculated by them (mayans) and they had good maths. What can we know if some object (planet?) won't cross between the sun and earth and due to the gravity earth will stop turning around for some time as some people say.
I wouldn't be so blind over that and over other things.

^cocaine is a hell of a drug... wait, you're from east europe... crystal meth is a hell of a drug!

[Nines]

Who cares if the world ends anyway? It's not like we would notice it...

[IronMonkey]

Sounds like Y2K all over again though. Nothing will happen.

Only because some of us worked damm hard to make sure that nothing would happen.

The company that I worked for at the time had its first system fall over because of Y2K problems in 1994 (long lead time for ordering certain items!). That was not the last system to exhibit problems.

Y2K was a real issue but most of the major problems were resolved in time.

[Plumb_Drumb]

Only because some of us worked damm hard to make sure that nothing would happen.

The company that I worked for at the time had its first system fall over because of Y2K problems in 1994 (long lead time for ordering certain items!). That was not the last system to exhibit problems.

Y2K was a real issue but most of the major problems were resolved in time.


well you only got 3 more years, so get crackin' ;)

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

I'm still alive.

Large Hardon Colider?
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/cherrycodes/msbg/lhc_diagram.gif

[DeeperShade]

I never believed in the 2K thingy, but 2012 sounds more probable, it was calculated by them (mayans) and they had good maths.

Yes, and the also believed that sacrificing women and children would appease an angry god.

Dude. For everyone's sake. Never post on these forums again.

[Rambowjo]

I never believed in the 2K thingy, but 2012 sounds more probable, it was calculated by them (mayans) and they had good maths. What can we know if some object (planet?) won't cross between the sun and earth and due to the gravity earth will stop turning around for some time as some people say.
I wouldn't be so blind over that and over other things.

Goddamnit, educate yourself human.

[8-4-7-2]

There isn't really much calculation in it. It's the day their calendar "rolls over" to something like 13.0.0.0.0.
The calendar is basically a running count from approximately 3100 BCE and the numbers are base-20 except for the second one. In practice they used 5 numbers which gives a range of about 7000 years, but it's theoretically possible to just add more. And it's possible to note future dates by adding another date as distance from the first.

And there are some mentions of dates beyond 2012.

[N1ghtmare]

I also has good maths.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

I can has maths too?

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

That's a sweet sweet guitar Jacks. What sort? Loving the bat inlays and purple + gold scheme. Really Sets off.

It's a custom Paul Reed Smith.

And yeah, it's rockin'.

[DeletedAccount69]

Goddamnit, educate yourself human.

lol @ sig.

[Matfei]

It's a custom Paul Reed Smith.

And yeah, it's rockin'.

Custom shop eh?

How much did that set you back? I was looking at a PRS signature for my next one, but if the price is comparable I might go custom.

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

How much did that set you back?

Oh god :lol: it's not mine. Maybe if I had 8,000 dollars to spare...

I have a Martin (acoustic) and a Les Paul (electric) that together have set me back a few grand. But I didn't buy them at once.

[DeaJae]

There is a Live cam showing whats happening at CERN, puts your mind at rest seeing that everythings fine (http://www.lhccam.com/)

[Matfei]

Nice one :D

I lol'd :lol:

[Big-Al]

awesome :p

[DarQraven]

The reason that 2012, apparently, is considered more probable than other "we're gonna dieeeeeeee"-scenarios is that it coincides with other events.
I'm not sure if I recall correctly, but I believe there was something about our solar system passing through the galactic plane in 2012. This is the plane through our galaxy's central black hole, and the divider between its negative and positive magnetic poles. Earth passing through this plane would effectively make it switch magnetic polarities. Consider this a global EMP.

Also, the reason that the end of the Mayan calender is considered significant is that their lore says that when the calendar ends is the end of a cycle, or age. Each age ends with catastrophic events, and other such joyful things.

At least, that's what I heard. To be honest, I don't really care.
If it is false, nothing will happen and we can just get on with our lives.
If it is true, there is no way in hell we're going to stop our entire galaxy from moving anyway.

In both cases, I won't have spent 4 years living in fear.

edit: Also, LOL @ India. I'm not one of those overzealous atheist ****nuts, but it's just very absurd to hear that people think they will be safe from a huge black hole munching up planet earth by going into a decorated building and not eating. I'm sure that'll help.

Really sad for the girl though..

[Wormbo]

I'm not sure if I recall correctly, but I believe there was something about our solar system passing through the galactic plane in 2012. This is the plane through our galaxy's central black hole, and the divider between its negative and positive magnetic poles. Earth passing through this plane would effectively make it switch magnetic polarities. Consider this a global EMP.

I don't see how passing the galactic plane would be any different to passing the earth's equator, considering the negligible strength of the galactic magnetic as opposed to the earth's.

[Matfei]

Really sad for the girl though..

Her death just raised the collective level of intelligence of the human race. Plus I think it's just really funny and a big overreaction to nothing.

I've been called heartless by like 3 people now for having that opinion. :o

[Azura]

Also is this real?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=629454

So when nothing bad happens we can all laugh at India. D:

Why is it that, in a country with a lot of poverty, people value life more than most people do here ?

In east India, thousands of people rushed to temples to pray and fast while others savoured their favourite foods in anticipation of the world's end.

[8-4-7-2]

Also, the reason that the end of the Mayan calender is considered significant is that their lore says that when the calendar ends is the end of a cycle, or age.
The calendar doesn't end. Not even in the five-digit system.Their calendar is able to show dates far more distant in the future. Theoretically infinite, if you just add more digits.

There is some creation myth though, that a new creation will start on 13.0.0.0.0 (that first digit goes up to 20, just showing that the calendar doesn't end there).

[Zarkazm]

Besides, I don't care what you say, leaving all the math and physics behind for a second, to me the idea of a black hole just doesn't stand to reason.
How? Leaving math and physics behind strikes me as unreasonable. You say it "doesn't stand to reason" but what reason are you talking about?


Nope, but I meant other experiments.
Name a few.

[DarQraven]

Why is it that, in a country with a lot of poverty, people value life more than most people do here ?

I think the part in the article that states India is "deeply religious" is something to keep in mind here.

Also, in most of the Western world, there wasn't any major uproar. Mostly it was the scared people telling us we would all die, and then scientists contradicting them. So it was more of a 'there's a minimal chance we could die'-thing.

As I gather from the article, in India it was presented as a fact.
Of course people are going to freak out:S

@Matfei: People like you just take that whole gene pool thing way too far. Lemme guess..fanatic atheist as well, right?

[Matfei]

I'm against religion if that's what you're asking. Nor do I believe theres any point putting faith into something that we've know idea whether it exists or not.

So draw your conclusions from that.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

There is a Live cam showing whats happening at CERN, puts your mind at rest seeing that everythings fine (http://www.lhccam.com/)

BWAHAHAHAHA
thats good

I should e-mail that link to my missus
shes a bit paranoid:lol:

[Matfei]

Oh man you should :D

I must try and punk a few people with it.

[Azura]

You can try that but note that a few people will notice that the date is wrong. That flash video needs to be changed.

I think the part in the article that states India is "deeply religious" is something to keep in mind here.

Maybe religion has something to do with it but it doesn't explain it entirely. I mean if you're a good person most religions promise you some form of "reward" if you pass away. Plus being stuck in poverty hardly encourages you to look to the future. There's something else.

[Jacks:SmirkingRevenge]

Why is it that, in a country with a lot of poverty, people value life more than most people do here ?

Plus being stuck in poverty hardly encourages you to look to the future. There's something else.

It's simple. You pretty much answered your own question by asking it.

When you're surrounded by poverty and mortality you're naturally going to value life far more than the guy who can walk down the street and buy a gallon of milk for a buck.

People "here" (assuming some Western nation) are well off and taken care of. We've got access to good medicine and we scrape enough uneaten food off of our plates every year to feed all of freakin' Africa. And you wonder why we value life less? C'mon.

We're spoiled as sh*t. It's amazing really.