The creation of a new Video Game Studio

[Hyrage]

Hi guys,

If you have any knowledge or experience about that, I would love to hear about it. I know that BU has many strongly experienced members in the video game industry, so I thought it could be a great point of reference to get the right information about this particular process. I also think that it could motivate other members here who thought about that too, so it's a very serious thread.

It was in my plans to maybe take the risk to start my own Independant Video Game Studio around Montreal, Quebec Canada to create Next-Gen AAA titles. We would already have plans (Game Design Documents and stuff) for that. We would just need Senior employees to first create a Core Team.

I have a great general understanding of many things, but I am a Level Designer not a Studio Director or in any financial stuff.

Do you have any idea of where I should put my head first?
I guess that I could first look for any affiliations with Activision, Ubi, Epic or other big names.

My Government can probably help Video Game Studios around here, but not sure about that one.

Thx in advance for any help or interest
Hyrage

[JaFO]

I have a great general understanding of many things, but I am a Level Designer not a Studio Director or in any financial stuff.

then focus on those two first.

You definitely need someone who can manage/lead a team and who can help you take care of setting up the production-line ('cause that is what it really is once you trim the fat) and all the required software & know-how.

The bad news ? Guys/Girls like that are expensive ...
The good news ? It's been done before and there are dozens of books and guidelines out there, so if you really want to you can do it yourself.

And don't ... (no really don't) ... underestimate the value of proper planning, design and documentation.
It's not something you can do all at once before you start (though it may look like it) so you are going to want to keep that under control as well.

[SlayerDragon]

I think the best approach is to write posts on game forums about how changing the core gameplay of a game will make it a better game.

[hal]

I think the best approach is to write posts on game forums about how changing the core gameplay of a game will make it a better game.
That belongs in another thread - not this one.

[Hyrage]

then focus on those two first.

You definitely need someone who can manage/lead a team and who can help you take care of setting up the production-line ('cause that is what it really is once you trim the fat) and all the required software & know-how.

The bad news ? Guys/Girls like that are expensive ...
The good news ? It's been done before and there are dozens of books and guidelines out there, so if you really want to you can do it yourself.

And don't ... (no really don't) ... underestimate the value of proper planning, design and documentation.
It's not something you can do all at once before you start (though it may look like it) so you are going to want to keep that under control as well.
Exactly, this is why I'm taking care of that it's fortunately one of my strength.
I'll search for these useful books, if you have any titles in mind it would be appreciated.

Thx for the advices

[Underscore]

If you've already made some games then you could show them off to companies or something perhaps?

If you haven't made any games yet then get cracking. For example, you could make one in which you shoot people with laser guns.

[Firefly]

Hourence has writtern a couple of books. one might help you. actually Hourence himself might be able to give advice

http://help.hourences.com/

[Hyrage]

Hourence has writtern a couple of books. one might help you. actually Hourence himself might be able to give advice

http://help.hourences.com/
;) mostly why I'm posting this thread here, I know he is around somewhere.

For the moment, I'm waiting a call from a Ubisoft Producer, I'll friendly meet soon the General Director from Eidos-Montreal to talk about the process I would have to follow during a lunch and I'm going to contact Marc Bourbonnais that ShadowM8 referred me to.

Things are moving, fortunately it would lead to a job or to the creation of a Game Studio.

[Firefly]

if you need a freelance mapper we could talk. :)

[Hyrage]

Thx for the offer, actually we are two Level Designers for the playbable Demo Prototype, we are mainly searching for a Gameplay Programmer/UnrealScripter ^^.

[JaFO]

Exactly, this is why I'm taking care of that it's fortunately one of my strength.
I'll search for these useful books, if you have any titles in mind it would be appreciated.

Thx for the advices

You could try :
Head First : Software development (http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527358/)

There's stuff like :
'RUP' (Rational Unified Process) : http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Unified_Process
Agile : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

The book covers a bit of everything and a bit of generic advice.
Most books tend to be pretty heavy on the theory and extremely light on the practical application of those theories.

[aevirex]

Not that I have much knowledge on this one but I would guess making a game prototype and showing it publishers would be a good start. Focusing on monetary things before you have a funding screams for failure and debts.
Other than that Hourences' book is probably valuable information.

[Peccavi]

Amazon has a pretty extensive range of related texts. I would have to say that being apart of one of the groups on Moddb would certainly help you get a feel of team managment (with people being in far distances from each other it turns the whole ordeal into a challenge).

Are you going to have a physical place/operations HQ/bunker of solitude? Or are you going to be Net based with your employment of others, I'm not sure on the legal side of things.

Will you need someone who takes care of your legal/HR/accounts/Production/QA/payroll/etc. ? Are you going to have standardized processes for being a small business? Have you met with a business consultant in regards to any of the prerequesets of business status?

I have a few books at home, but none that deal with 'setting up a studio'. Everything I have tends to be the game development process.

I don't mean to say this in reponse to anyone's post here, but there seems to be a huge implication that setting up a studio is all about who wants to do levels and who does modelling.

Best of luck with everything. Keep us updated with it all.

[Hyrage]

Amazon has a pretty extensive range of related texts. I would have to say that being apart of one of the groups on Moddb would certainly help you get a feel of team managment (with people being in far distances from each other it turns the whole ordeal into a challenge).

Are you going to have a physical place/operations HQ/bunker of solitude? Or are you going to be Net based with your employment of others, I'm not sure on the legal side of things.

Will you need someone who takes care of your legal/HR/accounts/Production/QA/payroll/etc. ? Are you going to have standardized processes for being a small business? Have you met with a business consultant in regards to any of the prerequesets of business status?

I have a few books at home, but none that deal with 'setting up a studio'. Everything I have tends to be the game development process.

I don't mean to say this in reponse to anyone's post here, but there seems to be a huge implication that setting up a studio is all about who wants to do levels and who does modelling.

Best of luck with everything. Keep us updated with it all.

With the actual information that I have, it seems that I must aim first for the Game Prototype what isn't easy because first... it requires time & manpower. Without $, it's hard to get a programmer, so hard to start prototyping.

So I'll first finish the Game Prototype GDD, then meet the business consultant around my city with a solid Business Plan + the GDD. I'm always waiting to get an answer form someone important before doing anything else...

I'll give more information in the next weeks.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

If you don't want the reality/truth/negative then don't bother reading my post. Here goes.

First off, I am more or less a few steps a head of you in terms of where you are thinking, and I have gone and setup my own software development. We focus a lot on games, but we also diverge out into web and business development too.

First of all, do not try to make a 'AAA' game as your first title. Make something much smaller first to wet your feet. Reasons:

You have little or no experience in managing a team, and managing a team is not a particularly easy thing to do. Managing a localized team is hard, and managing an international team is even harder. Without the proper experience in managing people, its possible to just run your own studio into the ground without even realising it. A 'AAA' game is a huge feat that requires a large team to make. Managing people isn't just about telling them what to do. It's keeping them happy, excited and motivated to continue working on your project.

Money. You have very little. Do not depend on anyone else for it. Coporations, business's , friends, family and government may offer it, but whether they actually give it to you is another thing. We're not talking a few 100 quid here. We're talking thousands upon thousands to handle this sort of thing. For example, if you decide to have a studio office, rent is going to set you back a certain amount. If you decide to pay people, expect to pay around about $40k per annum for low entry programmers and upwards of $55k to 80k for medium entry programmers, and unknown amounts for consultants. Can you afford that? Probably not likely.

Experience. You haven't got any real shipping experience. Any software company is not a software company until they release 1.0 of their first game or application. Shipping that first product is insanely hard. It's a constant struggle to just keep everything balanced and upright, and if you don't, it'll all collapse.

Books can only give you a small insight. They won't give you experience. So you may have 100's of books on success stories but until you've released version 1.0 of your game, no one is going to believe that you can do it.

Once again, why do a 'AAA' title? People expect a lot from a $50 - $60 game. And for the love of all things good, do not try to make an MMO of any sort.

[elmuerte]

There's stuff like :
'RUP' (Rational Unified Process) : http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Unified_Process
Agile : [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development[/url

Are you kidding me? RUP has no place within game development. RUP could be useful if you're managing a product line with a lot of people working on it.
An agile approach is the only way for a gamedev studio to work, because you will always have to adjust your plans. Some things (e.g. game elements) simply do not work well or at all. And that's something you need to account for.

If you are starting a game studio you first need to conceive a project to work on. Creating a project for a commercial game studio is quite different from creating a mod. You can just start with an idea you like. You have to explore your options. How you explore depends on how you want to set up your business. Don't stop at just one game idea, develop several game ideas and create some proof of concepts. It is best to focus on the type of game and various game play elements. Story/setting/etc. are all makeup which can be addressed at a later stage. On paper game play elements might sound great, but you don't know if they work until you create a proof of concept. After you created a proof of concept for your game ideas you can think of dressing them up (i.e. rough outlines of the story and setting of the game). Don't put too much effort in details. Just include vague things about locations, events and actions.
After this all you should have a couple of worked out game concepts. From here on you can decide what approach you want to take:
- independent
- backed by a publisher/game studio
The latter is quite difficult and almost impossible if you have no shipped product experience.
Unless you already have money to finance it yourself you will need to "sell" your game concepts. With "sell" meaning finding somebody that things investing in your concept is worthwhile.
Of course before you are hitting the streets to sell your idea you need to have set up your company. You are representing a company, not a group of individuals.

[Peccavi]

Proper planning is what you need man.
Get an idea for a project (rough... and i mean rough), and count up the positions you need.

I don't suggest working on a project until you have the backing behind you.

[JaFO]

Are you kidding me? RUP has no place within game development. RUP could be useful if you're managing a product line with a lot of people working on it.
An agile approach is the only way for a gamedev studio to work, because you will always have to adjust your plans. Some things (e.g. game elements) simply do not work well or at all. And that's something you need to account for. ....
As if that is that different from regular software development ?
Whether it is a user/client that suddenly changes his mind or a technological feature that proves to be problematic. Both result in similar problems that need to be detected and solved as soon as possible to prevent serious problems.

Neither RUP nor Agile are *the* perfect solution.
It really depends on what works best for you. Some people/teams may like a more structured/strict approach, while others may want something that is extremely flexible.

[Sjosz]

Having a financially backed game project is the first step to even remotely be able to attract serious senior developers. Having at least x amount of total years experience in the games industry is the way to get dev and test kits. (afaik)
Starting small to grow big can be an effective way of proving yourself as a developer before wanting to get a project signed that is multi-million, multi-platform and/or for a big publisher.

[Hyrage]

Thx for the advices.
I do have some experience in coaching and team management as well as my partner does.

Our main problem is actually mostly financial. It is usually required to have a proper Game Prototype to get some financial support, it isn't that easy to get interested programmers for that so we will find some way to get financial support to at least pay them.

The most important thing to me is to first complete the Game Design Document.
Our Game is a FPS game both Singleplayer and Competitively multiplayer. Nothing too MMO or weird.

[elmuerte]

As if that is that different from regular software development ?
Whether it is a user/client that suddenly changes his mind or a technological feature that proves to be problematic. Both result in similar problems that need to be detected and solved as soon as possible to prevent serious problems.

Neither RUP nor Agile are *the* perfect solution.
It really depends on what works best for you. Some people/teams may like a more structured/strict approach, while others may want something that is extremely flexible.

There is no such thing as "regular software development".

RUP isn't suitable for projects where goals and requirements change often. This is simply due to the extensive paper trail/red tape/bureaucracy. But that's also a good thing because it dictates stability in a project. But with stability you lose flexibility.

Building a game engine (which other teams use) is something you would use RUP for. The other teams need to be aware where the engine is going to, and that it's not going to suddenly change drastically.

Clients that suddenly change minds wreck havoc in any process. It's an unreliable factor because it ruins direction. But an agile process is more protected to those changes. A process like RUP isn't, those changes can only be entered in the next iteration (unless you are going to damage a couple of the pillars of RUP). Also in projects wre they use RUP a "sudden" change in mind of a client can have a time span of a month or even more. An most RUP projects employ other techniques like component-based software engineering and configuration management.

But anyway, you can use any process you want. I'm just handing out some advice/perspective.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

I do have some experience in coaching and team management as well as my partner does.Hmm, on your resume it says you're 22. I'm 25 myself, and I could say that I've only just really started learning about team management. What would you do in this situation:

Your artists and mappers are having a cold war. Recently one of your artists has submitted a 8192 x 8192 image of an arrow head. One of the mappers openly mocked him and the rest of the mappers are laughing at the lack of knowledge by this artist.

What do you do?

[Jackal]

Find out where the hell he made such a large image and why.

But then again, before any work starts, you should have gone over some ground rules. What types of resolutions and details you are allowed and can use. This would first prevent that situation from even happening.

However, since it has happend, you should/would just say "That's exactly what we need, but on a lower res version. The engine simply can not handle that large of an image and should be more suitable twoards 800x800 resolution". As far as the mappers go, I'd just let them know that they need the artist and everyone starts out somewhere.

If they can't handle any of that, they don't belong.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

Establishing process and policy first helps avoid such issues as the one mentioned above.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

But then again, before any work starts, you should have gone over some ground rules. What types of resolutions and details you are allowed and can use. This would first prevent that situation from even happening.Establishing process and policy first helps avoid such issues as the one mentioned above.If you are developing your own technology you usually have no idea the restrictions. At best, you know hardware restrictions, and that's all. For example, that texture would be just fine if you were to deploy clip texturing / mega texture or be using iD's latest engine. Thus sometimes simply just laying down the typical rules and regulations will stifle creativity. And like all data, up scaling is always bad, where as down scaling is usually not so bad.

If they can't handle any of that, they don't belong.Yes, and what happens if you get a mass exodus with all of your mappers leaving? Not only have you lost your entire work force, but you've lost all of the work they've made, if it was unfinished, and prepare to lose the next few months looking for mappers. Plus, word gets out very quickly in this industry, and your company starts having a really bad name ... which no one will want to work for, then welcome to ****ed company.


So I wouldn't say either of those two bits will actually help much.

[Hyrage]

I would first calm down the guys laughing. It's a funny situation, but only something you can learn of as an artist. First of all, I would also ask his Lead if he was informed of the work in progress of the artist when he was making the texture.

Second of all, could you please just resize the texture? Don't fear to ask questions or take the time to communicate with your partners.

------------------------

Solid Snake;2170148']Hmm, on your resume it says you're 22. I'm 25 myself, and I could say that I've only just really started learning about team management. What would you do in this situation:



What do you do?

Well, I'm older than I could seem.
I don't assume I'm like a 50 years old army veteran that can lead 50 000 guys, but I assume that I've enough experience and feel comfortable at managing a team and a project with 30 to 150 employees.

I do learn fast and do have more to my belt than just one speciality. I have more than enough creativity and skills to be Creative Director, enough culture/ logic/ writing skills & knowledge to Game Design & I'm talented & experienced enough to do Level Design, 3D Modeling, 3D animations, Scriptwriting [film], storyboarding, game character design, concept arts [my sig], etc.

In my opinion or perspective, I do not see Bioshock, CoD4, Gears of War or any other games as being "hard to do better".

I do not master 3D modeling and 3D animation perfectly at all, mostly because I spend more time in the other areas, but if my team left me... trust me I'll always make sure that I'm proficient enough to finish the job myself. I've also developed many Level Design methods in the past to work faster if it was necessary. It requires mroe time to Design, but it lets you save months of development.

The only thing I can't do is programing, maybe I'll learn that one day or another...

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

I don't assume I'm like a 50 years old army veteran that can lead 50 000 guys, but I assume that I've enough experience and feel comfortable at managing a team and a project with 30 to 150 employees.

What exactly have you managed before?

[Hyrage]

Solid Snake;2170230']What exactly have you managed before?
I've been coaching Taekwon-Do students & co-teaching them for combat and tournaments [we were one of the best Canadian Tkd Club], I've managed multiple Multimedia projects during one year and a half and multiple projects related to video games [game designs, High Level Concepts, a three months final project, etc] and I was also involved in a few amateur film projects in the past.

Basically, I mostly managed students of all sort.

Nothing truly "professional" as you would say, but to me there is no difference. I consider both as requiring the same amount of efforts, management & planning. I'm always open-mind to learn more and my previous experiences teached me that kids can teach me a lot of things, so my Ego is far behind... 22 years old isn't a reference. Take a look at Hourences, he is 24, he is both highly experienced and talented, plus he teached us many things through books, works and tutorials.

Note:
Well, yesterday I received a message from Sony, Santa Monica, for a job opportunity. Maybe a few of you also did, I'll see if I head for that opportunity instead of creating my own studio.

[elmuerte]

Solid Snake;2170148']
Your artists and mappers are having a cold war. Recently one of your artists has submitted a 8192 x 8192 image of an arrow head. One of the mappers openly mocked him and the rest of the mappers are laughing at the lack of knowledge by this artist.
What do you do?

Ask if he worked on a John Romero game a whole ago :p

http://uk.gamespot.com/features/btg-daikatana/p5_01.html

[Hyrage]

Ask if he worked on a John Romero game a whole ago :p

http://uk.gamespot.com/features/btg-daikatana/p5_01.html

Hey that's a very cool article, I'm actually reading it.
Thx for the link elmuerte

[aevirex]

In my opinion or perspective, I do not see Bioshock, CoD4, Gears of War or any other games as being "hard to do better".

I do not master 3D modeling and 3D animation perfectly at all, mostly because I spend more time in the other areas, but if my team left me... trust me I'll always make sure that I'm proficient enough to finish the job myself.

I think you've lost contact with reality. It's probably best if you accept the job offer from Sony and _really_ learn a bit, because this and previous statements imply to me that you know _very little_.

[Airmoran]

Hey that's a very cool article, I'm actually reading it.
Thx for the link elmuerte
You might as well read Masters of Doom while you're at it. Apparently, Carmack was an anti-social ass who made and sold good games, while Romero was a cool guy but lacked any management skills.

Oh yeah, you might also want to consider small, indie projects on XBLA or the sort. 3D shooters are immensely complex projects. Getting off the ground with a small (but high quality!) side-scroller might be very important experience. For what it's worth, aevirex is saying what a lot of us probably want to say. Your resume isn't nearly beefy enough for anything more than a starter job.

[Hyrage]

And you are totally free to comment lol.
But you must keep in mind that I didn't plan to make the 3D assets of the game, simply because my partner is taking care of that as well as textures. Detailed textures are way more effective nowadays than complex 3D assets. He and I are very productive and work well together. He mostly work like a 10 years of experience dev, I'm very happy to have him in the team and I couldn't find really better for several other reasons.

I think you've lost contact with reality. It's probably best if you accept the job offer from Sony and _really_ learn a bit, because this and previous statements imply to me that you know _very little_.
Define exactly what reality is and I'll definitely say you are right. I once learned that we can believe in a few specific starters, hopefully I learned it quick.

I guess you may also consider that I don't have kids and don't have any other life goals than doing that. It does a huge difference.

[JohnDoe641]

I think you've lost contact with reality. It's probably best if you accept the job offer from Sony and _really_ learn a bit, because this and previous statements imply to me that you know _very little_.
He's also lost contact with the community. If he can't handle the negative feedback for his map in the UT3 forums (There's about 15 pages worth of him arguing with us about our opinions) then his game will probably be **** since it's the customers opinion that matters, not his.

[aevirex]

Define exactly what reality is and I'll definitely say you are right. I once learned that we can believe in a few specific starters, hopefully I learned it quick.

Well, what I've gathered is that you visited a game design school. I don't know exactly what you learn there but from various friends in the game industry I've heard that they would take a mod guy over a game design school guy any time. Also I'm sure you know quite a bit about everything but I haven't seen something remarkably great from you (no discussion required here, it's just my opinion) which gave me the impression of "you knowing very little".
However what strikes me obviously most is that you think you could do something better than Bioshock, CoD4 or GoW. Dozens of people with likely everyone of them having multiple years in the game industry worked two, three or more years on these games. I know you don't want to say that you could do this alone but - and I don't want to insult you - these guys are better than you. Way better (I base this judgement on the stuff I've seen in these games and what you made).
Also, your starting big mentality implies to me that your leading skills are non existant.

I don't want to insult you and I hope I grew out of the age where I found flame wars cool, so again: this is the impression I have. It's not based on whether I like you or not.

As a result my suggestion is that you take such a job offer because franky I think you'll learn there in six months more than in any school and your plans become much more realistic than they are now (although doing another Bioshock, CoD4 or GoW is still unrealistic).

[Sjosz]

It should be mentioned that on average people who have no prior industry experience (and/or only have training through a 'game design school') but who are ambitious have considered starting their own company from the get-go before. If you don't have the money to do that, that's a big problem, because you would certainly not have the credibility of being able to lead a studio at the age of 22, certainly not if you'll be dealing with almost only people who are at least more experienced (in work and life) and older than you.

Having that opportunity with Sony in Santa Monica is a great chance for you to get into the industry and gain some real 'frontline' experience of what it is like to work in the industry. Do that for a few years before you consider starting your own company and you'll have infinitely more perspective on the entire business, not to mention a more credible background.

On a side note, I looked at the Ubisoft Dream Team thingy and it looks like it's utterly preposterous. A marketing ploy to make people search for others who would be willing to relocate and then they pick and mix those who appear to be good at what they are. Or maybe that's just cynicism and they're really trying to willingly fly in people from all over the world to start a team there to work for Ubi.

[Hyrage]

He's also lost contact with the community. If he can't handle the negative feedback for his map in the UT3 forums (There's about 15 pages worth of him arguing with us about our opinions) then his game will probably be **** since it's the customers opinion that matters, not his.
Wrong thread, I did argue that the map wasn't only designed for UT3 classic modes, but also to give the opportunity for many players to find a map that handles their various mutators. If you don't understand that and think, "ho it's quake style doh, what? it doesn't look and play like that , wtf??", than yes it's a very bad map. You may easy judge maps, but without considering the why it has been created... your judgement can't always be valuable.

As I mentionned, it was a test room... but a test room that made a Top 10 finalist?? wtf ...

Well, what I've gathered is that you visited a game design school. I don't know exactly what you learn there but from various friends in the game industry I've heard that they would take a mod guy over a game design school guy any time. Also I'm sure you know quite a bit about everything but I haven't seen something remarkably great from you (no discussion required here, it's just my opinion) which gave me the impression of "you knowing very little".
However what strikes me obviously most is that you think you could do something better than Bioshock, CoD4 or GoW. Dozens of people with likely everyone of them having multiple years in the game industry worked two, three or more years on these games. I know you don't want to say that you could do this alone but - and I don't want to insult you - these guys are better than you. Way better (I base this judgement on the stuff I've seen in these games and what you made).
Also, your starting big mentality implies to me that your leading skills are non existant.

I don't want to insult you and I hope I grew out of the age where I found flame wars cool, so again: this is the impression I have. It's not based on whether I like you or not.

As a result my suggestion is that you take such a job offer because franky I think you'll learn there in six months more than in any school and your plans become much more realistic than they are now (although doing another Bioshock, CoD4 or GoW is still unrealistic).

Oh and I totally agree with most of the post. I'm sure I would learn a lot, but the simple fact that we never worked together yet... many of these statements aren't valuable in my opinion. I do know a little bit of everything, we've been trained to know how other employees are working and what is their language to make easier the communication aspect. Artists and programmers are mostly on two opposite sides and the Level Designers are mostly making the link between them.

My specialities are Level & Game Design. Mostly Game Design, but it would be hard to prove it hey, with copyright issues and not having the time or chance to have a whole team to work on it, but whoever worked with me would tell you the same. I'm the kind of guy that is easy to go with, very quick at finding solution and making solid analysis, etc. My Game Design teacher [Game Designer at Ubisoft Montreal Studio], teaching the Game Design Formation at Montreal University told me I should get a job in Game Design and absolutely no need of the University formation because I was fully proficient in with the subject, but he had no influence on the recruiting so I would not be able to truly prove I'm proficient until I get the opportunity to get a Team... and that is true.

That's the hard step and it will always be... to get a foot in the industry. I do have a Game/ Level Design Formation, but I didn't learn any technical elements of Game or Level Design there that I didn't know so I mainly focus on a 1 year of making porojects and manage them the best I could.


It should be mentioned that on average people who have no prior industry experience (and/or only have training through a 'game design school') but who are ambitious have considered starting their own company from the get-go before. If you don't have the money to do that, that's a big problem, because you would certainly not have the credibility of being able to lead a studio at the age of 22, certainly not if you'll be dealing with almost only people who are at least more experienced (in work and life) and older than you.

Having that opportunity with Sony in Santa Monica is a great chance for you to get into the industry and gain some real 'frontline' experience of what it is like to work in the industry. Do that for a few years before you consider starting your own company and you'll have infinitely more perspective on the entire business, not to mention a more credible background.

On a side note, I looked at the Ubisoft Dream Team thingy and it looks like it's utterly preposterous. A marketing ploy to make people search for others who would be willing to relocate and then they pick and mix those who appear to be good at what they are. Or maybe that's just cynicism and they're really trying to willingly fly in people from all over the world to start a team there to work for Ubi.

Absolutely,
I didn't get a job at Santa Monica, it sounded more like an interview opportunity and it wasn't specified if it was for Game Design or Level Design. "Designers" is a large...

Working with experienced people in different specialities is one thing, but you can't compare a Game Designer to a programmer or a 3D Artist. I'm experiencing visual entertainment for 8 years now [film, table games, video games , etc.] and I'm the rookie type who woke up telling himself.. hey I wanna make games. I've been deeply creating Dungeon & Dragons stuff for years [map, npcs, quest, character creation, stories, new weapons, monster creation, new classe creation ,etc], the experience you get in that is something across Live Playtest and Game/Level Design creation.

I've experience deep enough gaming to truly understand what makes truly shine the Core Gameplay Mechanic of a game both for Multiplayer and Singleplayer, mostly what is going to be the next step; but that is "my weapon in the pocket". I played so many FPS that I came at the stage of not playing the game... just study it everyday deeper than if I was just playing. When you play a game you learn stuff, but your brain is way too focus on playing it that you can't fully benefit of a deep analysis & understanding. Same goes for efficient meditation [or any physical/ mental training] when you eat something two minutes ago.

Being a visionary... sorry but I don't find any formation for that except maybe.. practicing both your creative & anticipation skills. Being able to spot Game Design mistakes in the actual next gen games is one thing, but being able to find real & possible solution is another. So utlimately, the only thing I can say is... wait and see or come work with me once I've finished the GDD and see yourself.

But I must say that I find that kind of thread mostly amusing. Mostly because many pros (I'm not aiming at anybody here specifically) do think that new comers are completely ignorant of how things must be done and can be done. Veterans are mostly afraid of new changes too... even if it's for good.

I hope this thread may help many new comers too, there are many great advices and opinions that should be took in consideration.

[Hyrage]

My question would be:
"What do you think a Dev Team needs to make a game of the year, seriously?"

[Balton]

you're too much talk, maybe you should consider a career in PR?

[Hyrage]

you're too much talk, maybe you should consider a career in PR?
It's something I may consider :rolleyes: .
Thx

Or maybe I should just write a book on the social negative effects of energy drinks (LOLL)

[Wormbo]

My question would be:
"What do you think a Dev Team needs to make a game of the year, seriously?"

Most importantly one thing: Experience. Nobody can make a game of the gear without it.

[Hyrage]

Experience is very vague, may you define it please?
Because I do agree that the employees must be able to do their work. I mean, a programmer who knows who to program games, but only made mods or else... it doesn't mean he can't program a GoTY. Same for the others...

[Wormbo]

Experience at making games and everything connected to it. Just look at previous GOTY, none of them is the first thing ever created by the corresponding developer studio.

[[SAS]Solid Snake]

The thing is Hyrage, is that the 'pros' here have already been through this phase of let's talk all intelligent and witty about our new ideas and concepts. The problem is, when it actually comes to producing a title it does get very tricky.

The biggest hurdle is money. You haven't got it , and there isn't an easy way to really get it. You may have all the talent in the world, but if you haven't got the money then no one is going to work for you. If you haven't gotten the real world experience (VC's and company director's will look at real world experience, and will not consider the above as so) then they're not really going to give you money to 'prove' yourself to them.

What complicates the situation is that you want to head into the deep end really quickly. You want to make a AAA game. Are they ever cheap? No, no they aren't. Can you ever cut corners? Sure you can, but not to the extent where you'll be saving yourself a lot of money.

"What do you think a Dev Team needs to make a game of the year, seriously?"To be honest, a lot of things. Mostly dedication, focus, money and luck.

Dedication
Making games is a long and often arduous task. You're talking at least one game per annum at minimum. This include smaller indie type games. Even your basic 'Peggle' could take you a year to make? Why so long? Well, first off your programmers are going to take some time developing key technologies that are essential to any game. They can be the graphics, sound or networking components that the game requires. You can either skip this step by purchasing an engine, however the upfront costs of doing so are large. If you decide to make your own engine, then the long term costs are also just as large. During this period of 'unknown' state, you have nothing to show for your game. Nothing. Nothing works. Anything that does work may get broken the next day. What are your level designers, artists, sound artists, musicians doing at this time? Either nothing, or potentially wasting time. They could be making things, but if the technology changes and nullifies their work ... it doesn't help. So, your job is to manage people through this complex and often changing phase. One day your programmer might say, "Crap, I've spent 3 months writing this renderer and I've written it all wrong, I need another 2 months to write it again". Crisis points occur a lot, so you need to keep confidence levels high and spirits high. People in your team need to be dedicated, and most of all, you need to be dedicated. You need to be able to wake up every day, and not just say to yourself "Ok, I'm going to make games!", you need to say "Ok, I'm going to make X and [i]only X". If you can never keep or stay focused on a single task and constantly keep changing your mind about things, people get annoyed. Then people get angry. Then people leave.

Focus
Focus is another key aspect of creating good quality games. Focus is day to day scheduling of things. Teams need to be able to say, ok, we need x, y, z working. If x and y is all we have time for, then skip z all together. For example, watching the Gears Of War DVD's, Ron F said something like:

We need the chain saw working. If grenades don't work, then so be it, but we need that chain saw working. We need to show this at E3.

The entire team is focused on making this one, rather small aspect (in reality) of Gears of War. Getting everybody focused means that people can't skip off and do something mildly related. You can't start talking about other things. The other sense of focus is keeping people on the ball, they need to know whats happening and what changes (if any) are occurring and deter their minds from thinking about it. For example a great focus buster is the evil grape vine effect.

"****. Did you read GameSpot? Apparently we're vapor ware ... so, if we're vapor ware does this mean our company is going bust?

The grape vine is evil in every company and you have to do your best to stop its growth and keep people focusing on the task. Because if you don't, all they'll think about when doing their jobs is "I need to find a new job." and this is regardless of how true the GameSpot article is.

Money
As I said above, money is important. Everybody wants it, and you won't ever have enough of it. First, you need an office if you plan to employ people. You may be happy to work in your home, or in your flat but employees aren't going to like going to your home / flat to do their work. Once you get an office, there will be standards. Sure, you're not going to go all out and get marble floors in your office building (or even the building mind you), but you'll want windows at the very least. Rent is going to set you back something regardless.

Little tiny costs that nibble away at the cash pile are everywhere. Programmers are going to need books, paper, pens & pencils [No, you do not want to use pen or pencil for everything .. and twink sucks], rulers and other little bits and bobs. Artists are going to want the staple art supplies and so on. If you have sound artists or musicians then you'll have to pay for their equipment too. Then there are chairs, desks, lava lamps and fluffy bunny slippers to buy for everyone (ok, maybe not lava lamps or fluffy bunny slippers ... but you get my drift). Then theres the software and hardware for everyone on your team. Woah, that's actually kind of expensive. You could spend 10K alone just buying the hardware and software for your employees.

Outsource? Get people to do it in their spare time? Make sure employees have their own hardware and software? Good luck. Individuals who are outsourced in different locations can't be relied on ("I never got that email...", "The CD's are in the mail..."). Individuals working in their spare time can't be relied on ... ever ("I'll have it done next week, I promise", "I've haven't had any spare time lately"). If you're going to make your employees pay for their own hardware and software, you may as well ask them to bring a desk and chair to work too. [Please note that I say outsourced/spare individuals and not companies. I know some companies are very reliable sources of outsourced content]

Lastly, you have to pay your employees. There are numerous ways of doing it, but you'll find very few people who'll accept nothing else but cold hard cash on pay day, especially the veterans in the industry. The other payment plans are:

- Deferred payment
- Royaltie based payment
- Company stock

Deferred payment means that you pay if you get some cash. This doesn't last long. Most people I know who do try this, last about 2 months then will demand money or they'll walk. People got to eat to you know.

Royaltie payment means that you pay based on game sales. Again this doesn't last long either. People generally tend to sick of this after 2 months, especially if the end of line isn't very close at all. Again, people's stomach comes first.

Company stock means you give away %'s of your company. You can't give everyone a %, since you still need to own 51% of the companie's stock to remain in control of it. So at most, you can only give away 49%. You play a big risk here. If your company collapses, technically people own stuff so they'll take it. Again, if the road is going to be long, most people leave after 2 months.

So ... the only way to keep people doing their jobs is .. surprise surprise .. you pay them with money.

As you can see money quickly runs out. Either you get lots of it stashed away, or you find someone to give it to you. People generally only give money away if they either get something in return, or if they're incredibly in love with you.

Luck
At the end of the day, you're not going to know if your game is successful or not. You may make a great game at the end, only to find that everybody hates it and all they do is go to forums and bitch about the game all day. You can certainly make a technically proficient game which doesn't crash or balls up ... and people still might hate it. Or the next big thing may be released just before or after your game, and thus your game doesn't get noticed at all. People may now suddenly hate GTA style games now that GTA4 is out. People may suddenly crave for more Coffee Brewing Simulators.

So sometimes, you just got to be lucky in that people just like your game for what it is.

Well, that's the four things I think a development team needs. There are of course more ... but I can't spill my entire brain into one thread. :)

Oh, if you tl;dr ... I don't care.

[MonsOlympus]

My question would be:
"What do you think a Dev Team needs to make a game of the year, seriously?"

More then every other Dev Team who releases a game that year?

[Hyrage]

Nice post Snake.
Yes, I agree with the whole post. You probably made one of the best useful post I ever read on a forum with it comes to having good info about the game industry. Thumbs up.

Definitely, I see the money as the only real and most important issue.

[SlayerDragon]

Hyrage I have a very important question for you, it's been bugging me for a while now. You keep on saying that your specialty is Game Design. I'm assuming this is because you took a game design class. Yet, all your portfolio (http://www.emconceptmarketing.com/cpg_portfolio/projects.html) shows are a map (or series of maps, I can't tell) for Half Life 2 and a map for Unreal Tournament 3. What games have you designed?

[Hyrage]

Action/ adventure & FPS games mostly and I do care about copyright issues, so the document aren't publicly on my website, only on DVD. I'm sorry...

[SlayerDragon]

Action/ adventure & FPS games mostly and I do care about copyright issues, so the document aren't publicly on my website, only on DVD.

What? If these are games you designed why would you be concerned about copyright issues? :con:

[Hyrage]

In other terms, if you Designed Halo 4 would you share the Game Design publicly on the internet? Same goes if you designed new innovative "leveling up systems" for an action/rpg game or new Gameplay Mechanics, puzzles and more. Thekind of stuff that makes a difference between Bioshock and The Darkness.

Better keep that in the shadows as a Game Designer, but I can share the keys to make them. I guess it would be great content for GDC one day or another.

[JohnDoe641]

If you're going to an interview and you say you can't tell them about your designs good luck with getting the job. :lol:

[elmuerte]

My question would be:
"What do you think a Dev Team needs to make a game of the year, seriously?"


money
time
PR
good release date
popular genre
popular theme
good execution
good publisher that doesn't want to rush a release
timing in general
talented people


art direction, story, originality, revolutionary game elements are all irrelevant

[Hyrage]

If you're going to an interview and you say you can't tell them about your designs good luck with getting the job. :lol:
It may help if you would take an extra second while reading my post :D.
I do give my past GDD and prototypes on my DVD version of my Portfolio, if necessary. I do not post publicly these on my Online Portfolio.

Basically it means that if I got an interview, they probably already saw my DVD or I have it on me ready to give it to them.

:)


money
time
PR
good release date
popular genre
popular theme
good execution
good publisher that doesn't want to rush a release
timing in general
talented people


art direction, story, originality, revolutionary game elements are all irrelevant

Great post,
And.. a true unique touch everywhere to make the whole thing shine, I would say.

[SlayerDragon]

In other terms, if you Designed Halo 4 would you share the Game Design publicly on the internet? Same goes if you designed new innovative "leveling up systems" for an action/rpg game or new Gameplay Mechanics, puzzles and more. Thekind of stuff that makes a difference between Bioshock and The Darkness.

Better keep that in the shadows as a Game Designer, but I can share the keys to make them. I guess it would be great content for GDC one day or another.

Okay, so basically your answer to my question should have been, "I have not designed any games." You cannot claim to be a game designer if you have never actually seen your game designs to fruition. That's patently absurd. Anyone can write down some "game designs" on paper. You can say you are interested in pursuing game design, but honestly I'd wager that most actual game designers actually got their experience doing something else.

[Slainchild]

Well, when I was working in Germany, my boss was the owner of the company, lead designer and all-round "everthing I say is what we do" kinda guy. All he had done before was a map for a BF2 mod.

Uber rich family though.

[SlayerDragon]

Right, and that's well and good if you're going to be paying for your own project, but that clearly isn't the case here.

[Hyrage]

Okay, so basically your answer to my question should have been, "I have not designed any games." You cannot claim to be a game designer if you have never actually seen your game designs to fruition. That's patently absurd. Anyone can write down some "game designs" on paper. You can say you are interested in pursuing game design, but honestly I'd wager that most actual game designers actually got their experience doing something else.
Many Level Designers or programers become Game Designer
Many Game Design Students who never designed real games became Game Designers.
So basically, you can't self-proclaim yourself a level designer if you made many maps if you never made an official game, right?
Or you can't be a 2D artist until you first sell a painting??

I respect your perspective, but I also find it absurd.
Someone is often already proficient before making a work or a masterpiece.

Being a good game designer - the skills are in the head
Being a good level designer - both in the head & on the engine
Being a good 3D animator - in the head and a bit in the program... you must understand how a body move and how to give emotions
Being a good 3D modeler - must be very good with the program & master your poly number

[Airmoran]

I think it was Molyneux or Will Wright who was quoted as saying that he gains respect for an employee after the employee has seen a game go from concept to release. It's a real tough industry and the naive enthusiasm of newbies often evaporates in the stress of reality.

Frankly, the same scenario exists in every industry. Every school should've taught you that industry experience is the currency that lets you move up the ladder. You're 22. That's too old to think that your rock band is going to make it big. It's time to grow up and start a career before it's too late.

Many Level Designers or programers become Game Designer
Many Game Design Students who never designed real games became Game Designers.
So basically, you can't self-proclaim yourself a level designer if you made many maps if you never made an official game, right?
Or you can't be a 2D artist until you first sell a painting??
This is the sort of naivete that's got everyone shifting around uncomfortably. That analogy doesn't work at all. By the same token, I can say a shoemaker is not a shoemaker (merely an apprentice?) until he's made a shoe. As a game designer, your responsibilities include communicating ideas to a team, usually under a deadline or in collaboration with other designers. Until you've done so, you've only experimented.

Similarly, an game artist is not a game artist until work has been done for a game. Yeah, he or she might be an artist alright, but working in a studio setting under deadlines and the strict stylistic standards dictated by someone above is a far different game than drawing caricatures in San Francisco.

So take a job with Sony or whatever. At the very least, it'll help your English. As a game designer, you will need very strong communication skills. As it stands, you have difficulty summarizing your thoughts in a concise manner or make over-simplifications to try to make a point. These are not qualities of a strong communicator.

In summary:
Whole thread: "Look, the hard fact is that you don't have the experience to make your dream a reality."
Hyrage: "LA LA LA DEFINE REALITY LA LA LA"

[Hyrage]

Well, when I was working in Germany, my boss was the owner of the company, lead designer and all-round "everthing I say is what we do" kinda guy. All he had done before was a map for a BF2 mod.

Uber rich family though.
Were you making levels?

[Slainchild]

Yes.

[Hyrage]

I think it was Molyneux or Will Wright who was quoted as saying that he gains respect for an employee after the employee has seen a game go from concept to release. It's a real tough industry and the naive enthusiasm of newbies often evaporates in the stress of reality.

Frankly, the same scenario exists in every industry. Every school should've taught you that industry experience is the currency that lets you move up the ladder. You're 22. That's too old to think that your rock band is going to make it big. It's time to grow up and start a career before it's too late.

In summary:
Whole thread: "Look, the hard fact is that you don't have the experience to make your dream a reality."
Hyrage: "LA LA LA DEFINE REALITY LA LA LA"

I think your first paragraph tells it all, and I'll keep in my mind "hardwork" & "never give up" as necessary keys for success.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

ISO 20K compliant?

[Airmoran]

I think your first paragraph tells it all, and I'll keep in my mind "hardwork" & "never give up" as necessary keys for success.
In the real world, you can't pick and choose what people say.

Intentionally mis-interpreting my post doesn't somehow negate its content. Instead, you are, oh, I dunno, taking the post out of context. You're intentionally missing the point to somehow brush it aside.

Again, that's not a quality of a strong communicator.

[Vitamin-Carrot]

Text is up to the interpretation of the reader

[Hyrage]

In the real world, you can't pick and choose what people say.

Intentionally mis-interpreting my post doesn't somehow negate its content. Instead, you, oh, I dunno, taking the post out of context.

Again, that's not a quality of a strong communicator.
What are you talking about?
I said, quoted and meant that the only way to judge something if you aren't familiar with game design concepts is to see the project itself once done.

As you said, Molyneux was surprising, he is probably not the only one on Earth.
I also add, making concepts wasn't enough, hardwork and to never give up also helps.

I don't see anything wrong with that related negation.

If you do think there is an age to make a career, I do agree it could be too late in the 60 & around here many professionals only start or quit university around 25 to 30. My summary would be more: If you have a goal find the ways to achieve it and work for it.

[SlayerDragon]

Being a good game designer - the skills are in the head

No. Skills are learned through experience. You may possess knowledge, but skills come through practice and experience.

I'm not trying to drag you down, but I do think that you have lost grasp of reality a bit, and that could lead you into trouble.

[Hyrage]

No. Skills are learned through experience. You may possess knowledge, but skills come through practice and experience.

I'm not trying to drag you down, but I do think that you have lost grasp of reality a bit, and that could lead you into trouble.
Nah I understand the point you are talking about, but some things may be learned through experiences and some others by seeing it because someone else did it or learned because you directly understand things and you do not necessarly have to experience compared to someone else.

Game Design mostly comes from understanding what you can play and how it does affect the players. There is no proper school for that yet, even at university.

I do have a LOT of things to learn on many apsects... we never stop learning anyway, so I'll see what I can handle and what I can't.

[Sjosz]

In the meantime, get a job, do a few projects from start to finish as a *junior* level and/or game designer and then start talking about building your own company. I'll not try and feel spoken to with the 'pros in here think new people don't know anything stuff', but after over 2.5 years worth of industry experience and only being 22 myself I can tell you that you could really do with some frontline experience.

Besides, this topic, and every single other topic in which you wished to discuss questions, including this one, it slowly but steadily devolves into people giving you genuine advice and you deflecting it as if it's some sort of competition.

[Hyrage]

In the meantime, get a job, do a few projects from start to finish as a *junior* level and/or game designer and then start talking about building your own company. I'll not try and feel spoken to with the 'pros in here think new people don't know anything stuff', but after over 2.5 years worth of industry experience and only being 22 myself I can tell you that you could really do with some frontline experience.

Besides, this topic, and every single other topic in which you wished to discuss questions, including this one, it slowly but steadily devolves into people giving you genuine advice and you deflecting it as if it's some sort of competition.

Thx for the advice and I agree with the first part (lol).

This Thread should be on pause for a while, I'm Video Games Integrator at Gameloft Montreal.

[Sjosz]

Thx for the advice and I agree with the first part (lol).

This Thread should be on pause for a while, I'm Video Games Integrator at Gameloft Montreal.

Congratulations on that.
Could you tell me what a game integrator is/does? I have never heard of that job title before. :)

[Airmoran]

This job, apparently (http://www.careerjet.ca/job/501ed802709afd3989e21bcc2894a901.html). That's not a bad gig. Congrats, Hyrage!

[Hyrage]

Congratulations on that.
Could you tell me what a game integrator is/does? I have never heard of that job title before. :)
Well it pretty much depends of the project but usually we would just call that Level Design. I'll be able to give more details about that next week.

I've been impressed enough to pass over the Ubisoft interview. Gameloft is definitely a good Career opportunity for me and I have some plans in mind... The studio is very nice, the guys are really cool and there are small teams what leads to a more friendly and intimate atmosphere. ... I loved it.

[Peccavi]

Congrats chief. Best of luck with everything.

[Hyrage]

Well it pretty much depends of the project but usually we would just call that Level Design. I'll be able to give more details about that next week.

I've been impressed enough to pass over the Ubisoft interview. Gameloft is definitely a good Career opportunity for me and I have some plans in mind... The studio is very nice, the guys are really cool and there are small teams what leads to a more friendly and intimate atmosphere. ... I loved it.

As I said, I'll give mroe detail of my actual job. Yeah, a "Video Games Integrator" position isn't common and probably just fit for Gameloft or smaller studio. In other term, the job is to Technically Support & Integrate every element in the game. It also means, doing the dirty job of exporting aniamtions to let our 3D animators do their job faster without being disturbed, etc. I'm touching to pretty much everything: design, scripting, import/export, etc. I'm always working with the Game Designers, but I'm not doing directly anything related to that.

To be brief, I'm doing the dirty job. It's a good position to understand how everything works together, but it,s a misconception to think that an Integrator would be perfect later on to become a Game Designer. The job is so much "robot-style" that there is no place for creativity yet. I been told that I would also be able to make some Level Design & gameplay/storyboard prototyping, but it isn't something that I can do on my actual Project.

The job is enough repetitive (copy/paste) all day long, plus I work like a crack... so things are going fast enough to give me some kind of headache by the end of the day :lol: .

That's it :eek: :D