PDA

View Full Version : UT3 WAR-Beachfront[Release]


_N_
1st Jul 2008, 02:52 AM
WAR-Beachfront
Version 1.3 (Updated Release)

[EDIT: Upgraded to Release version 1.3. Scroll down to the end of this post for the new download link :)]

After playing UT3 Warfare online and noticing players (myself included) yearning for new Warfare maps, but receiving none, I decided to become part of the solution. It took longer than I thought, but if it weren’t for MSU, I probably would have procrastinated even longer ;). I now see why there are so few Warfare maps, as it is at least double the complexity of making an Onslaught map, and significantly more involved than any of the other gametypes (largely due to the scale, but also the wide knowledge of the engine needed). Also, they’re typically an incredible pain to optimize.

Anyways, while I unfortunately ran out of time to fully complete it for MSU (an extra two days was all I needed :rolleyes:), I’ve taken the past few days here to finish it up. So, without further ado:

WAR-Beachfont:

One of the things I kept in mind whilst designing the map was the many common UT3 complaints that I hear. Such as “UT3 maps are all dark, gloomy and blurry”. I decided to tackle this misconception head-on as my vision for the map was an ideal day at the beach: bright, sunny, and clear :D!.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517289_vez4d/shot1_040337.jpg

Although this map is an original, it’s design was partly inspired by both ONS-Battlefront (one of my favourites) and ONS-IslandHop, with a few ideas borrowed from my final ONS map: ONS-StarReach. Creating the map turned out the be a huge challenge for a variety of reasons; partly because there’s so many more new things to do in Warfare maps over ONS, but also because, as you may have noticed, UT3 stock maps are totally devoid of tropical foliage and materials! I actually had to go back to 2k4, grab a bunch of tropical resources, and then “touch them up” for use in UT3 (normal maps, etc).

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517293_gvncm/grassLands.jpg

In terms of gameplay, I drew upon the aspects of Onslaught that people found fun: sizeable/epic battlefields (but not _too_ big ;) ), minimal spamminess, decent node count, avoiding of choke nodes, etc.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517295_ggqwu/radarImage.jpg

The map is designed for epic battles, and requires a good balance of defence and offense. Players more keen on fast-paced action will get plenty of it on offense, meanwhile, players who prefer a more “measured” pace, can play an important role on defence.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517296_ohafl/bunkersTrench.jpg

I also added some “goodies” in the map. The cores for example, as they become more damaged, the entire core facility itself starts to show it, not just the core itself. Conduits burst into flames, sparks spew from overhead electrical circuitry, control panels and alarms emphasize the direness of the situation. Also, to mix things up, I went with a retro 2k4 core explosion control (i.e. with the moveable camera instead of the fixed animation) so you can look around and see who’s nearby as the core overloads and explodes.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517290_ukvgv/coreBurn.jpg

However, don’t think this is simply Onslaught in Warfare’s clothing. The map has a large variety of deployables and powerups hidden throughout the whole map. There are EMPs to help deal with the tanks, a spider mine trap to help with defence, a helmet to help make it past snipers, Invisibility for sneaky stealth attacks, Beserk, double-damage, and of course jump boots to help you get some of these harder-to-get-to powerups. Also, there’s a nightshade hidden on the map (1 per side) that will help with defence, offense, and sneaky stealth attacks. Each core also has an Orb dispenser to help a failing teams make a comeback. I strived to apply the best aspects of both ONS and Warfare to create a map that’s still UT3, but doesn’t forget its fundamentals :).

Finally, I tried to provide a diverse battlefield so that, regardless of your favourite style of gameplay, there’s something for you ;).

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517294_6eu4f/jungleAmbush.jpg

Dense jungles: Too dense for vehicles, proceed on foot!
Central hills and grassland: Use the hills for cover, if you get caught out in the open, feign death to hide amongst the grass- it’s tall enough to hide you, but short enough for you to see over! Great for unsuspecting ambushes on passing players from behind. Works in the jungle too!
Beaches: Ever fought for a node underwater? It’s pretty crazy ;). Shock rifle and minigun are particularly useful here.
Indoor areas: Put your DM skills to use here!

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1517292_2e03m/inside.jpg

Anyways, hope people enjoy it. Any feedback (good or bad but hopefully constructive) would be awesome :D! Hopefully, Warfare players will have a new map to look forward to on the servers soon :).

Download Link:
http://files.filefront.com/WAR+Beachfront13zip/;11509941;/fileinfo.html/

TheIronKnuckle
1st Jul 2008, 03:19 AM
You make a persuasive argument for downloading your map.
epic wall of text, and it did the job! dloading now!

from your post, this map sounds absoloutly freaking super! I can't wait to play it and see if it really is that godlike.

i don't think they would have looked kindly on you if this went MSUC though. You are using "old" assets. I've got no problem with that, but the judges might. meh, DOWNLOAD FASTER!?!?!

_N_
1st Jul 2008, 03:44 AM
Heh, well, you might be surprised how many 2k4 resources I've found lying around in UT3 resource packages. A 1024x1024 picture of concrete doesn't really show it's age from one game to the next either :rolleyes:.

That being said, I took the time to add normal maps, specular maps, and so on so that by the time they come out of that material editor, you can't even tell it's not a stock UT3 resource ;).

Darkdrium
1st Jul 2008, 10:04 AM
TBH I skimmed until the download link, but...

I<3U :)

Many thanks, this looks like it is what Warfare should have been since the beginning: large scale.

LtClifff
1st Jul 2008, 11:20 AM
This looks absolutely awesome!

JohnDoe641
1st Jul 2008, 12:14 PM
Screw the game play, I just want to walk around on the beach. :D

Mr. UglyPants
1st Jul 2008, 01:57 PM
The download link isn't working.

_N_
1st Jul 2008, 04:45 PM
Hmm, odd, I just tested it, and it seems to be working fine. I'm several gigabytes away from the bandwidth limit too... Maybe it was just a random hiccup on the server, should work fine now.

Regarding the map, any bugs to report? Any glaring issues? Suggestions for improvement?

Mr. UglyPants
1st Jul 2008, 06:46 PM
I keep getting a connection interrupted error, can you upload it to filefront or something?

_N_
1st Jul 2008, 08:40 PM
There we go... I changed the link to FileFront. I wonder what the issue was... the images, for example, are hosted from the same place as the file yet you were able to view them without an interruption error, right? Strange...

Darkdrium
1st Jul 2008, 10:36 PM
After a game, this needs some music.
Also there is this problem: the Leviathan tends to blow up randomly. Fix it.

_N_
2nd Jul 2008, 04:41 AM
After a game, this needs some music.
Also there is this problem: the Leviathan tends to blow up randomly. Fix it.

Well, I considered adding music, but the general atmosphere of the map I was aiming for was for a more serene feel, and high-octane techno-beat doesn't really fit in. Also, UT3 music is usually so quiet and ambient, most people hardly notice there is any. Instead, I decided to forgo music and just add ambient sounds instead the same way the Halo series does for its multiplayer matches. However, the fact that you noticed the quietness (you're actually the first) means it maybe needs a little more ambient sound. I'll see what else I can find in the Audio packages ;).

Regarding the Leviathan, you illustrated a good point here: most players don't realize that in UT3, Leviathans explode if you destroy the node that spawned them (unless the node is a countdown node). I was looking for an announcement in the Audio packages along the lines of "Leviathan Node destroyed" to help players realize this fact, but unfortunately, there is none. In fact, I can't even find a Warfare map that has a leviathan spawning at a non-countdown node.

That blasted Leviathan has been somewhat of a pain the whole time. I'm considering getting rid of it altogether... but what else is there to reward the team that captures the center node?

Darkdrium
2nd Jul 2008, 09:27 AM
Oh I see. Well in that case there's not much you can do with it. That sucks :|

Another thing, I think the map is too bright. At least the terrain is, it looks white all over instead of say yellow like sand should be.

_N_
2nd Jul 2008, 04:10 PM
Oh I see. Well in that case there's not much you can do with it. That sucks :|

Another thing, I think the map is too bright. At least the terrain is, it looks white all over instead of say yellow like sand should be.

Hmm? What are you Texture and World detail set to? I've noticed that, weirdly enough, the sand becomes more white as you turn down your texture detail (it's actually really orange at the higher settings).

Even so, bright white sand isn't as strange as you might think ;)

http://pcwin.com/media/images/screen/Tropical_Beach_Living_Desktop_52952.jpg
http://www.lakbaypilipinas.com/images/boracay_palm_trees1.jpg
http://www.alavservices.com/Images/Tropical-Beach%201.jpg

Darkdrium
2nd Jul 2008, 06:47 PM
I run the game maxed out at 1680x1050.
And I know that white sand exists, just like snow a beach can be very bright under a mid-day sun, but I guess it's not really the colour but more the contrast that bothers me. I feel there are no shadows when outside of the buildings... There should be some shadows.
I will go back and play and see if I can make my impressions more clear.

EDIT: Ok so I'll talk about the sand and the sounds as well as something I just noticed...

First: sand and terrain overall as well.
Like I said, it lacks contrast, everything is super bright and washed out, you cannot see the detail of textures anymore. Granted, sand can appear white, but the problem is that the grass looks fake with the intensity of light coming down on it. It is very green, almost lime green instead of say dark green like it should be (a bit). One thing that doesn't help is the fact that the texture scale is too big, and the textures look blurry and like those in UT2004. Reduce the lighting intensity a bit, and the texture scale too.

Second: sounds
While you did place some sounds around, the fade in radius is too small, we go from super quiet to very loud noise in no time. Also, the sound of waves crashing on the beach should reach a little less far, right now it's almost half the map. Adjust the fade in distance so it starts at half the map and will end very near the beach, so it will sound more realistic. Also, birds can be heard from far away, and that is not the case in your map. Again a fade in distance will make it sound better.

Third: next gen filters
They are absent. While putting a lot of DOF, Bloom and Desat. is a bad idea (Stock maps) you can at least use some to make the map more lively (No desat, but a little bloom and DOF can't hurt). Right now it looks a bit cartoony. I don't know if you're going for a UT2004 "clean" look but I think it could be more appropriate with a slight next gen boost.

Mr. UglyPants
2nd Jul 2008, 08:58 PM
Great stuff. This would so be an awesome Assault level, just attacking a HUGE line of barriers and a series of bunkers (with artillery raining down when the are captured)

_N_
2nd Jul 2008, 11:14 PM
I run the game maxed out at 1680x1050.
And I know that white sand exists, just like snow a beach can be very bright under a mid-day sun, but I guess it's not really the colour but more the contrast that bothers me. I feel there are no shadows when outside of the buildings... There should be some shadows.
I will go back and play and see if I can make my impressions more clear.

EDIT: Ok so I'll talk about the sand and the sounds as well as something I just noticed...

First: sand and terrain overall as well.
Like I said, it lacks contrast, everything is super bright and washed out, you cannot see the detail of textures anymore. Granted, sand can appear white, but the problem is that the grass looks fake with the intensity of light coming down on it. It is very green, almost lime green instead of say dark green like it should be (a bit). One thing that doesn't help is the fact that the texture scale is too big, and the textures look blurry and like those in UT2004. Reduce the lighting intensity a bit, and the texture scale too.

Second: sounds
While you did place some sounds around, the fade in radius is too small, we go from super quiet to very loud noise in no time. Also, the sound of waves crashing on the beach should reach a little less far, right now it's almost half the map. Adjust the fade in distance so it starts at half the map and will end very near the beach, so it will sound more realistic. Also, birds can be heard from far away, and that is not the case in your map. Again a fade in distance will make it sound better.

Third: next gen filters
They are absent. While putting a lot of DOF, Bloom and Desat. is a bad idea (Stock maps) you can at least use some to make the map more lively (No desat, but a little bloom and DOF can't hurt). Right now it looks a bit cartoony. I don't know if you're going for a UT2004 "clean" look but I think it could be more appropriate with a slight next gen boost.

Hi, thanks for the extra feedback!

Yeah, the sand areas are definitely really bright. As most mappers have probably noticed, it's really hard to judge what's a good level of brightness. Given the vast differences of brightness and gamma settings on monitors, you can never really know just what level of lighting is best. This is even further complicated by players who turn up the in-game brightness settings (I keep mine at the default level of 6) because most maps are often dark.

The sand is a bright yellow-orange on my monitor with some minor white-patches here and there. As for shadows, my map is set at noon so the light source is almost directly overheard (it points a little more towards the red core tho). Still there's definitely shadows:

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1530044_ttnwr/sands2.jpg

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1530045_69imq/sands1.jpg

As for the grass, it's lime-green because I wanted to give the impression of hot, dried-out grass which is a mix of green and yellow. Hmm... but you may be right about the texture scaling. It used to be smaller because before the grass meshes were in, the tiling was very obvious. However, with the grass meshes now present, maybe it wouldn't hurt to scale it a little smaller... ;).

Yeah, I've noticed several problems with the sound including this bizarre reverberating effect when you're in range of two sound emitters that fall out of sync :eek:. I don't think the range is the issue, as (from my experience) you can still clearly hear ocean waves from a good 40 meters away from the shore (especially if it's a wide open area with little intervening foliage), but you're right about it getting too loud too fast. I'll tweak the sound emitters to try to mitigate this.

Nope, all the next-gen post-processing techniques are in fact present, I just erred on the side of subtlety rather than in-yo-face post processing that the stock maps are infamous for :rolleyes:. The bloom is actually higher than most stock maps (just look at the ultra-glowy light sources in the cores, or trying hover-boarding across the bright sands). Also, I used the "scene effects" filter to increase contrast and colour saturation with a slight shift towards red-orange to give everything that hot-sun feel (settings almost identical to Torlan except I decided to forgo the desaturation). DOF I reserved for just the water and not the open air because in reality, hills less than 500 metres away are not blurry along the edges unless you've forgotten your glasses ;). DOF would also decrease the sharpness of the sky dome.

Again, thanks for the feedback. These little tweaks help give it that extra layer of polish :D.

_N_
2nd Jul 2008, 11:17 PM
Great stuff. This would so be an awesome Assault level, just attacking a HUGE line of barriers and a series of bunkers (with artillery raining down when the are captured)

Yeah, *sigh* unfortunately, the Warfare's as close as you can get to Assualt anymore :rolleyes:. However, if you're up for some artillery-fire, I stuck a SPMA at the beach node for some good ol' fashioned artillery strikes over the trenches :D. But be careful, infantry can always hit SPMAs by locking onto the hovering targeting device with avrils ;).

matariel
3rd Jul 2008, 10:36 AM
great stuff, I could say that this map and this map alone has literally got me excited about ut3 again. This kind of map is exactly what ut3 is missing.

Beyond that I think that some lights inside the bunkers would go a long way, making them nicely lit on the inside would be fantastic. Right now when I jump into a bunker it feels way too dark.

As well I've noticed something somewhat bothersome, the contrast between light areas and shadows on characters and vehicles and what not is waaaaaaay too strong. I'll show you what I mean.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532295_jfdde/ScreenShot00013.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532296_pin8b/ScreenShot00011.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532297_lft5a/ScreenShot00012.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532298_9nvov/ScreenShot00014.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532299_o9eln/ScreenShot00015.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532300_alxkd/ScreenShot00016.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532301_ussas/ScreenShot00010.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1532302_cano0/ScreenShot00009.jpg

edit: rofl I got quoted while in the middle of fixing this post :p

anyway yeah, maybe your skylight isn't strong enough?

Johnny x1900
3rd Jul 2008, 11:14 AM
great stuff, I could say that this map and this map alone has literally got me excited about ut3 again. This kind of map is exactly what ut3 is missing.

Beyond that I think that some lights inside the bunkers would go a long way, making them nicely lit on the inside would be fantastic. Right now when I jump into a bunker it feels way too dark.

As well I've noticed something somewhat bothersome, the contrast between light areas and shadows on characters and vehicles and what not is waaaaaaay too strong. I'll show you what I mean.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532295_jfdde/ScreenShot00013.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532296_pin8b/ScreenShot00011.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532297_lft5a/ScreenShot00012.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532298_9nvov/ScreenShot00014.jpg
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532299_o9eln/ScreenShot00015.jpg (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1532299_o9eln)
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532300_alxkd/ScreenShot00016.jpg (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1532300_alxkd)
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532301_ussas/ScreenShot00010.jpg (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1532301_ussas)
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/thumbs/small/1532302_cano0/ScreenShot00009.jpg (http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/view/full/1532302_cano0)

I agree totally, this has brought something new and fun to Warfare/Onslaught that epic doesn't really have.
Nice, Map. I have found only 2 bugs with it.

1. Bots get stuck on the teleporter by waterfall node.
2. The grassy jungle parts are maybe too dense. I think it comes down to personal preference, but when ever I try to take that route, I just get blown away by something, I can rarely see what. Perhaps if the grass was lower I could see a little further. Just my opinion though.

I like how most nodes are in a bunker, it makes it take real strategy to capture them. Great map, keep up the good work. :)

neilthecellist
3rd Jul 2008, 11:20 AM
Testing tonight, will give an in-depth review tomorrow. :), but I'll give my preliminary remarks:


I like the concept of camoflauge in the grass via Feign Death, really adds a nice gameplay element to the realm of Unreal gaming.

Galivan
3rd Jul 2008, 11:38 AM
Nice looks men, a lot of grass, sunny, and a lot of light. A new perpective for a UT3 "metal only" game. Good Job!

_N_
3rd Jul 2008, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've been incorporating feedback into changes for the "release" version coming soon.

Yeah, the shadows are very dark, but this was done to give the map more contrast and make the sun feel super-bright. In spite of this, I also get comments that there isn't enough contrast... I guess it comes down to personal preference, but so long as it doesn't hinder gameplay, I think the current lighting scheme will probably do.

Hmm... again, proper brightness is difficult to gauge indoors. I definitely want the indoor areas to be dark because if they're too bright then there's no contrast... I'll see if I can brighten it up a little because areas that are too dark would definitely interfere with gameplay.

Yeah, I've seen the bots do the same thing. I've struggled with those darn node teleporters for a long time because the editor ignores what height you place them at, and places them as high as it sees fit, it's not an issue for flat BSP floors, but for terrain, it's always placing them way to high above the ground. It's one of the most annoying "features" of the editor. I'm going to try some more tricks to see if I can get it at the proper height.

Yeah, unfortunately, the bots can see right through the jungle foliage because apparently only objects with collision block their line of sight. Against human players tho, I think the jungle will make for some unique battles and surprise attacks.

bignick0193
3rd Jul 2008, 05:30 PM
Looks great. I'll download and play very shortly.

neilthecellist
6th Jul 2008, 09:18 PM
OK! I'm back with a review:

Your map is great for online play ONLY. In instant action mode, bots are complete cheaters (not your fault) because they can easily shoot through thick foliage that the human eye can’t see through. Again, as this isn’t your fault, I can’t really hark on you about it, and I don’t think there’s anything you could do as a mapper to fix that issue.

Speaking of thick foliage, the gameplay in this map is very unique as its conducive to camouflage tactics that players generally don’t get in UT3 stock maps. Feigning death and waiting for an enemy to pass you by, and then springing up to smash in on them (it’s even more fun when two players on the same team are feigning death and stand up to surprise the enemy from two ends)

I do have a gripe with the weapon locker placements though. As you know, UT3 doesn’t allow players to drop weapons. So say I’m in the middle of the field, blasting rockets at a tank. After a bit of time, I run out of ammo. I can either let myself get killed, or type in suicide in the console.

Or… I could get on my hoverboard and find a nearby weapon locker, only the nodes are too far away to do this. Suggestion: place some ammo around and have pickup lights over them that are SUPER DARK (like black or something under Light Properties / Light / LightColor) and then place 4 corner lights around each ammo thing to catch the human eye better. Don’t change the location of nodes, they’re fine as they are.

HDR. Need HDR. I know you already put in HDR, but a little more would be nicer. We need our visual orgasms. J

-Neil

P.S. Actually there’s one aspect of the bot paths that you might be able to fix. In some of the nodes (not the power cores) the bots get stuck trying to go up the stairs. They make an easy kill, but until you kill them, the enemy team is always down by 1, 2, or even 3 AI ! (I kept wondering where all the enemies were, I set the bot count to 13)

hal
6th Jul 2008, 10:42 PM
I took a bunch of pics of this map for our front page feature. I just wanted to say how awesome it looks. I'm really happy to see more indoor nodes too as I think this is an element that can really win over the fringes of the "hate vehakalz" crowd.

matariel
6th Jul 2008, 11:50 PM
indeed, I've said it before and I'll say it again: this really is a fantastic warfare map, just might be the best in the game atm.

Sir_Brizz
7th Jul 2008, 09:33 AM
Do you need the title of this thread changed?

toniglandyl
7th Jul 2008, 10:07 AM
this map + excessive overkill = massive phun !

_N_
7th Jul 2008, 03:33 PM
Do you need the title of this thread changed?

Actually yeah... I tried changing it already by editing the first post, but that didn't seem to do the trick... :hmm: ?

Jetfire
7th Jul 2008, 05:58 PM
Your map is great for online play ONLY. In instant action mode, bots are complete cheaters (not your fault) because they can easily shoot through thick foliage that the human eye canít see through. Again, as this isnít your fault, I canít really hark on you about it, and I donít think thereís anything you could do as a mapper to fix that issue.

I suspect you could place a volume in the foliage area, and on touch/untouch reduce a bot's sight radius, as is done in vctf-sandstorm.

Nice looking map, yo. Congrats :)

neilthecellist
7th Jul 2008, 08:51 PM
I suspect you could place a volume in the foliage area, and on touch/untouch reduce a bot's sight radius, as is done in vctf-sandstorm.

Nice looking map, yo. Congrats :)


Oops. I never thought of that. I'm still learning how to map with UT3UED

_N_
7th Jul 2008, 08:54 PM
I suspect you could place a volume in the foliage area, and on touch/untouch reduce a bot's sight radius, as is done in vctf-sandstorm.

Nice looking map, yo. Congrats :)

Hmm... I was considering such a thing myself. The issue is where to place such a volume. I can't just place it in the jungle, because the issue is mostly that bots outside the jungle are shooting in. I can't place it outside the jungle because then bots outside will be blind to stuff that they should easily see (like the centre node or snipers in the bunkers etc :hmm:... I'm still trying out some other potential solutions though, so maybe I'll have something workable for version 1.3 down the road. ;)

Also, I wouldn't say it's for online play only. Obviously, you can't be very stealthy against bots, but there's still lotsa tricks that you can do! Remember, there are 8 other nodes besides the jungle ;)!

Did you know about the secret area near the Black Cliffs node? There's a Nightshade there that's loads of fun! Actually, I had no idea they hover over water until I made this map :lol:.

Also, hidden deep within the jungle are a pair of jump boots. You can use them to get onto the rocky areas and fire down on you enemies. Look out for snipers though... You can also use them to jump up to the secret back-entrance to the Black Cliffs node. Much much safer than going through the exposed front door!

Having trouble with snipers in the wide open beach area? Keep your eye out for a hidden invisibility powerup somewhere near the beach. Also, if you see a hoverboard flying around with (apparently) nobody on it, it's time to start shooting!

Having trouble taking the enemy hilltop bunker? Grab the spider mine powerup and drop it off in the bunker. The narrow confines make the little guys almost impossible to avoid. Better yet, deploy it outside, and use your avril laser to guide an army of spiders into the bunker to help you out! After you clear the inside, it'll stand watch outside as you build the node for your team! Good fun :D

Of course, getting to the enemy hilltop bunker will be somewhat of a challenge if you're stuck holding the spider mine trap and there's a bunch of goliaths around. Use the nearby EMP to knock out any goliaths protecting the bunker. Again, invisibility is useful here.

Anyways, there's probably dozens of other tricks that even I didn't think of. Explore and try out new things! :D

toniglandyl
9th Jul 2008, 05:51 AM
oh just a little thing : could you make the height limit a bit higher ? it's annoying to have the camera bounce in the middle of the air :\

awaw
9th Jul 2008, 09:56 AM
That blasted Leviathan has been somewhat of a pain the whole time. I'm considering getting rid of it altogether... but what else is there to reward the team that captures the center node?

How about a orb-spawner? I haven't played your map (yet!), but if I read your initial post right, orbs only spawn at the core and an orb spawner at the middle of the battle could really give an advantage.

matariel
9th Jul 2008, 12:36 PM
perhaps too much of an advantage, I say leave the levi the way it is.

Kantham
9th Jul 2008, 01:20 PM
I thought the grass/shadows looked a bit odd from here, the water is really nice though, are those UT2004 ECE textures?

For the gameplay, I'm not a fan of it, the AI seems to be lost at time, like they sometimes get inside the middle tank and stay there idle. Those nodes inside the structure may not help the cause. Many time they left their vehicles for on foot traveling

The node underwater may be frustrating, since you always need to go underneath.
And the Levi? I haven't tried it, but when I saw it spawn, I did the face palm.

neilthecellist
9th Jul 2008, 03:51 PM
I thought the grass/shadows looked a bit odd from here, the water is really nice though, are those UT2004 ECE textures?

For the gameplay, I'm not a fan of it, the AI seems to be lost at time, like they sometimes get inside the middle tank and stay there idle. Those nodes inside the structure may not help the cause. Many time they left their vehicles for on foot traveling

The node underwater may be frustrating, since you always need to go underneath.
And the Levi? I haven't tried it, but when I saw it spawn, I did the face palm.

The grass looks... fake, but that's not the mapper's fault, it's the grass static meshes that are available in UT3's stock assets (I'm sure you knew that though)

The ai DOES get lost, and it frustrates me too, maybe there should be more waypoints? That seems too easy of a solution though, is the problem bigger than what it appears to look like?

_N_
9th Jul 2008, 04:43 PM
The ai DOES get lost, and it frustrates me too, maybe there should be more waypoints? That seems too easy of a solution though, is the problem bigger than what it appears to look like?
[/B][/COLOR]

Hmm... which areas do you mostly notice the A.I.s acting "lost"?

neilthecellist
9th Jul 2008, 05:49 PM
Open areas. Also, around some of the center nodes, the AI will drive a tank into the wall of a node area, and then just get stuck. And then you have to kill the bot via console so the vehicle can respawn back at base.

_N_
9th Jul 2008, 08:51 PM
Hmm, I really don't know how the bots work (not being the one who programmed them) but I suspect they "prefer" open areas because they have a fear of getting stuck in the more narrow places. Thus, they probably usually take the more "open" paths when available instead of risking a trek through a narrow pass (which any human could safely navigate). I notice they sometimes change their minds about what they want to do too, like they'll be going for the middle, but then suddenly a prime node goes down, so they stop, turn around, and go for that node instead.

Also, nodes inside structures have "vehicle parking" pathnodes to let the bots know that they can't go past this point unless they're on foot. That stops the bots from trying to drive up a flight of stairs in a scorpion or trying to squeeze a tank through a door frame. The jungle also has these so that bots don't try to fit vehicles in between the trees.

Now, if a human spawned and wanted to capture the jungle node, they would pop out their hoverboard, ignore the tanks at their current node, and head straight for the jungle, hoping over rocks and barricades, and trying to keep out of line of sight of the enemy. Now, if a bot spawns and decides it should capture the jungle node, it will detect that there is an unused tank nearby and decide the tank would probably be useful in capturing a node. It would grab the tank and then try to plan the best way to the node. It realizes it's in a big vehicle, so it will head towards the open areas because it's less likely to get stuck on something there. It then makes it's way towards the jungle node, when it hits a pathnode (just outside the dense jungle) labeled as a vehicle parking spot for the Jungle node, so the bot decides to exit the tank, and proceed on foot.

Obviously, if a human player did this, they would win come kind of "n00b of the month" award because not only did they waste a ton of time taking the long way to get to the jungle, they really shouldn't have taken the tank at all if they were going to the jungle because tanks don't fit there in the first place! Also, they totally wasted the tank by driving it away from the node and parking it out in the open where it'll get blown up, or worse, hijacked!

Unfortunately, "AIs" are currently incapable of this higher-level planning in new environments, and thus will inevitably act in ways that seem irrational to humans but are fully rational to them. Actually, I guess it's probably a good thing they're not capable of higher-level planning otherwise they'd have enslaved us and taken over the world by now ;).

Kantham
9th Jul 2008, 09:15 PM
That is entirely correct, Bots love open spaces, as they also need them. Human players can run a Scorpion on 2 wood plank, while bots are going to be entirely drunk attempting. Refusing to attempt maybe.

neilthecellist
9th Jul 2008, 10:43 PM
Ah, that makes sense. No possible way to correct this? What if Epic released the native source for UT3?

_N_
10th Jul 2008, 12:04 AM
Ah, that makes sense. No possible way to correct this? What if Epic released the native source for UT3?

I think an Unreal Engine 3 License is needed for source code but at $500,000 each, it's a little out of my price range :hmm:.

oh just a little thing : could you make the height limit a bit higher ? it's annoying to have the camera bounce in the middle of the air :\

Ah, yeah, you're referring to the "StallZ". Well, I'll see what I can do, but if it's too high players would be able to peek over the cliffs which have nothing on the other side :eek: (for the sake of gameplay performance).

neilthecellist
10th Jul 2008, 11:47 AM
Kinda off topic, but theoretically, if one spends $500,000 on a UE3 license and then pirates it (distribute over Torrent) wouldn't Epic be... screwed?

A "pirate" group could earn a lot of fame that way. Just a thought. (albeit a scary thought)

toniglandyl
10th Jul 2008, 12:41 PM
Kinda off topic, but theoretically, if one spends $500,000 on a UE3 license and then pirates it (distribute over Torrent) wouldn't Epic be... screwed?

A "pirate" group could earn a lot of fame that way. Just a thought. (albeit a scary thought)

*cough*silicon knights*cough*
well they didn't torrent it, but they did give some bits to other companies IIRC

neilthecellist
10th Jul 2008, 02:39 PM
*cough*silicon knights*cough*
well they didn't torrent it, but they did give some bits to other companies IIRC

Illegal?

EDIT: You mean this? (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14759)

http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/layout/99_icon_arrow.gifBreaking: Silicon Knights Files Lawsuit Against Epic

http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/news2001/14759/too_human_1.jpg According to a statement from Epic's Mark Rein sent to leading news outlets including Gamasutra, the Unreal Engine 3 creator is the subject of a lawsuit from licensee Silicon Knights regarding UE3-utilizing Xbox 360 title Too Human.

Kantham
10th Jul 2008, 02:43 PM
Kinda off topic...

Yes.

TheIronKnuckle
15th Jul 2008, 06:40 AM
I finally got to playing this beauty. I was on the MSUC version. (I don't know how beta or not that version is)


I have to say: I loved it in instant action. This is how warfare should have been done!
The only improvements i can suggest (and i know there are many more, but these are the ones I personally care about) are thus:
Mesh it up! I know that you want good performance, but your buildings look downright ugly. The bunkers in particular are really horrible. Please add SOMETHING to cover up the blandness. The fact that they use a grey, repetitive texture is really annoying. They really are shouting out for a hint of detail. Just add a few small trim meshes or something. Either way, those bunkers look crap.

I don't care about the grass looking like it does. I love it as it is despite it being scaled too much. So for me the grass is fine.

I like the 2k4 style core explosian. The base reflecting the core status = win IMO. I love that effect.

The map plays wonderfully. I love the tank battles and the jungle skirmishes. There were a few gameplay flaws, but really, no major changes need to happen to gameplay.
However: I personally would love it if you released an alternate version of this map which placed more emphasis on SPMA's than tanks.

For example, instead of 2 goliaths spawning behind the sandbags at the bunker node, why not make them SPAMs?
In addition: You could make the roof destructible on the 2 side bunkers and the 3 sniper nests on the main bunker. This means that the spmas could nullify any annoying campers who are sniping too much and force them to retreat or change tactic.

In this version you could still have a lot of tanks, but each side should have somewhere between 4-8 spmas at their disposal.

To keep things balanced the amount of invisibility pickups should be increased. Maybe make it so that the jungle node is the "stealth node", and whichever team captures it gets access to 4 invisibility pickups so that they can sneak over the no-mans land without the spmas detecting and killing them.

If you were to make this version, I suggest that the 3 nodes in the middle are made stand-alone nodes (you know what i mean right? They aren't connected to the link setup).
The middle node in no-mans land would have a new function. Instead of spawning a leviathan the purpose of this node would be to repair any damage done to the bunkers of the team who controls it. (remember that the bunkers would have destructible roofing in this version. Excluding of course the roof directly above the actual node. We wouldn't want the SPMAs spamming the node itself).
So yeah, controling this node would repair your bunkers. Maybe it could be a 30 second countdown node which, when controled, keeps the bunkers from being damaged at all!
Another idea: I like what you did with the core. How the base around it blows up as the core gets damaged and all that. What if you applied this to the bunker nodes? IE: Whenever the bunker node falls below a certain level of health, the repair node will no longer function correctly for that teams bunker.

Moving on: The jungle node would be stealthed up, like i described above.

The little island node could have 2-4 mantas and ONE raptor. Maybe an energy shield of some sort should be placed above the node to prevent spmas from rendering it useless. The moment the node falls below 50% health this shield would falter and the spma's could let loose. There would only be one raptor because 2 would be unfair and one is necessary to make the node worth capturing. That raptor would be a good asset on this map. It should be able to take down at least 2 annoying enemy spmas before every AVRIL available on the other team gets loaded and locked on.




so yeah..... As far as i can see the map you have already created is close to perfect in terms of gameplay and performance. I reckon the second setup I propose above could be an interesting twist on this map. You designed this map to feel like onslaught2k4. You suceed.
So why not make another version which feels like warfare2k8? My version mixes some assault styled objectives in while retaining an onslaught feeling.

Meh, i'm probably missing something and the gameplay changes i propose above would seriously unbalance the map :lol: . But anyways.... What do you say? The two versions would be completely separate from each other - I'm not suggesting you make these changes to a map that is perfect already for gameplay.

_N_
15th Jul 2008, 11:59 PM
Heh, well, I've already moved onto my next map for phase 2 (VCTF this time). But depending upon how well BeachFront does, perhaps I'll make an alternate version for phase 2 as well... ;)

Revord
21st Jul 2008, 07:16 PM
Just an FYI, Ive dowloaded this and have to say nothing in the stock maps have anything close to this level of quality and gameplay. I played it with the max bot count, and it was back and forth. The fact that the Leviathan is tied to that center node is brilliant. With such a powerful weapon, it only makes sense that if that beastie starts rolling up to your power core, just take out the center node (it will be much quicker than attacking it head on) and blam-o, there goes the levi, and everyone on board. I dont miss the music, sometimes, I turn it off myself, primarily because I have a 5.1 surround card with a surround headset. I like to hear fools coming up behind me if Im just sneaking around.

Visually, its good enough for me. It may not have all the eye candy some folks have asked for, but it works well in my opinion.

As far as bots are concerned, unless someone was able to reprogram the AI, I dont think theres much you can do about that. In my opinion, the AI in UT3 isnt that much different than that in UT99. Im currently going through 99 again, and I really dont find that much difference tbh.

Anyhow, thats my 2 cents worth. Good job dude, keep it up!

keaukrine
11th Aug 2008, 09:36 AM
Looks very nice. Gotta try it out.

Firefly
16th Aug 2008, 03:01 AM
i love this. crysis/farcry eat your heart out (with much better fps too)

I thought the bunkers looked fine. The only thing I didn't like was the way the leviathon spawned out in the open. That should have a bunker.

Anyway, minor point, great map. :D

_N_
17th Aug 2008, 02:32 PM
Thanks for the continued feedback everyone. Good news: if you're looking to try it out online, for the next little while you can play it on UMG League's Warfare server! :D Apparently, it's been somewhat of a hit there, so stick around for a few Warfare rounds and you're bound to run into it ;).

Also, I just realized that I accidentally posted the link to version 1.1 all this time :eek: Well, regardless, I just finished cooking version 1.3. I'll be sure to edit the link in the initial post too. I also hope to eventually cook a PS3 version... if only I could figure out what keeps making it crash... :rolleyes:

http://files.filefront.com/WAR+Beachfront13zip/;11509941;/fileinfo.html/

Thanks again for the feedback! :)

keaukrine
18th Aug 2008, 04:10 AM
Map plays quite well. Bots are stupid though (as always).

TurdDrive
22nd Sep 2009, 04:26 PM
Link broken. :9

_N_
22nd Sep 2009, 07:24 PM
Link broken. :9

Man, filefront keeps dropping the links for it like that :P. I'll see if I still have the most recent copy of the map lying around on my external hard-drive backup somewhere... otherwise I guess I'll cook up a new one.

Bi()ha2arD
23rd Sep 2009, 12:06 PM
http://www.utzone.de/include.php?path=content/download.php&contentid=7077

here ya go.

TurdDrive
23rd Sep 2009, 12:10 PM
thanks