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[TT]BrundleFly
26th Jan 2008, 07:59 PM
The people at Epic have been making games for decades. They've studied game mechanics in-depth for years.
Decades? I doubt it. Maybe the company has been around for decades but I doubt there are many 20 year employees. And if that was true the current product is pretty crap for decade old developers...

If Epic would have been truthful right from the start it wouldn't have gotten so many peoples expectations up so high. They should have said "PC gamers suck balls we are making this game for console fairies". Instead they said "This game is gonna be just so excellent for PC owners blah blah lie lie bull farts ad nauseum http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Jerkit.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Jerkit.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Jerkit.gif"

Creeps...

Epic Staff ---> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Clown.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Clown.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/BaxterT/Smilies/Clown.gif

evilmrfrank
26th Jan 2008, 09:16 PM
Alright I usually keep my tongue when I hear people crying about the game but seriously, if you guys don't know wtf your talking about don't talk! First of all UT3 is not entirely crap. It has some pretty amazing art in it and overall it is really polished except for a few bugs. Every game has bugs, so get over it. Epic wasn't lying about their plans for UT3 because at the time the things they were saying likely were in their plans. Gameplay changes during development all the time. Things are added, and things are taken away. It doesn't make them liars it makes them smart. They put stuff in the game if they think it's fun and they take it out if its not fun. Every game company does this and always will do this. If your ambitions for the game were ruined by getting over excited that is your problem. A big reason I think people hate UT3 so much is that they have been expecting too much out of the game so when it was released they had a good game instead of an impossibly amazing game so they think its crap only because its a bit worse than what they thought it would be. The game is not made only for consoles and it does in no way feel like it was dumbed down for consoles. The game is too fast to be a console game. The console version of the game IS slower. If you think Epic is full of a bunch of people who don't know wtf they are doing I'd like to see you come up with something better. Pretty ignorant of people to troll about something they couldn't even start themselves. I'm sorry for this rant but I'm really getting sick of people posting crap about Epic and what a bad job they did when they don't know what they are talking about. Sure UT3 has some issues thats why Epic is creating patches for it.

[TT]BrundleFly
26th Jan 2008, 09:29 PM
Alright I usually keep my tongue when I hear people crying about the game but seriously, if you guys don't know wtf your talking about don't talk!I will talk if I please, I call it as I see it and I don't need your permission OR approval... and your sure read a lot of crap into my post that isn't there. "If you think you can do better than wah wah", sh1t man grow up... Do you watch sports? I don't but every fat slob with a beer can is an armchair critic...

I'm sorry for this rant but I'm really getting sick of people posting crap about Epic and what a bad job they did when they don't know what they are talking about.If you are referring to me I didn't mention a bad job. I said they were/are less than honest.

I was really looking forward to this game for a long time, the UT series being the only game I play online. I upgraded my gaming rig specifically for it. But the fact the hardly anyone is playing it speaks volumes and now I am sitting here wondering if it is really salvagable, patches not withstanding. I fear first impressions may have soured people and it will be too little too late...

I really hope I am wrong...

And it you don't like my opinion well that's your problem... Who are you anyway???

evilmrfrank
26th Jan 2008, 09:45 PM
My post wasn't to only you, it was to everyone who is constantly complaining about the game....

T2A`
26th Jan 2008, 10:31 PM
BBurkart, what would you say if I told you that the game was developed with consoles in mind and the whole thing was simply sped up via time dilation for the PC version? Just because something is fast doesn't mean it's for PC. If every design decision came down to how it would work on the consoles then it's a console game even if in the end they jacked the speed up 20%.

You mentioned art in reference to the maps, and I think that's a very big problem with UT3. The maps look fantastic but gameplay is lacking on almost every single one. Even with something as simple as DM many of the maps are full of problems that remove strategy and flow. I had a feeling UT3 would be full of maps like this and I was right. :(

Alhanalem
26th Jan 2008, 10:53 PM
The maps look fantastic but gameplay is lacking on almost every single one. That really couldnt be farther from the truth. There are plenty of good maps gameplay-wise. I'm sure you'd disagree with every one if I made a list (as its largely subjective anyway) but I really dont think this is one of the games flaws.

evilmrfrank
26th Jan 2008, 11:11 PM
Seriously compared to UT2004 the maps are far better. A lot of the maps in UT2004 really sucked gameplay wise. One of the few good ones was DM-Rankin. UT3 is very strong gameplay wise. And about the gameplay being geared towards consoles I really don't know where your getting this info from.... UT3 was designed for both consoles and PC's

Jordan L
27th Jan 2008, 12:15 AM
Carbon Fire, Diesel, Fearless, and a couple of others, well they all have their own design but same general look and small corridors gets really irritating when theres around 12+players on the server (which most of the time there always is). Then it turns into half or more of the players running around with the impact hammer. In the end maps like this with that many players, just turns into a pointless spam fest with no skill involved what so ever.

Those maps are great for low player count, but most servers are high in player count in the first place, for now theres an average of 2 servers that are populated for me, and both stay in the 12-24 populated player count. Just some random whine I wanted to add. Nothing serious, just adding to the thread.

Grobut
29th Jan 2008, 07:26 AM
You know, my biggest gripe with UT3 is not even the game, for all the bad UI, broken server browser, and lacking features, though annoying they may be, are nothing compared to the lack of support from Epic.

Its been 3 months now? there about? 2 and a ? and in that time i have played probably a grand total of 3 houers of UT3, with the remainder of the time beeing spend crashing to the desktop.. it started out fine though, i could play a full 20 mintue match no problem, then the game would crash after 15 minutes or so, then it was 10, then 5, then 2, then seconds after starting a round, and now, it dies the very moment it is done loading a map! the game is absolutely broken now.

And i am far from alone, stuff like this is happening to alot of people, though for some the whole system locks up requiering a hard reboot, for others it freezes and requires a Ctrl+Alt+Del and a manual termination, but the issue is certainly not an isolated incident by any means.

And then there's all the issues with Creative sound cards, especially the Audigy series, and X-FI's with X-RAM.


And all Epic has to offer is deafening silence, or failing that, they have actually deleted threads about thease issues in Troubleshooting, there used to be quite alot of them but only a few remain, all recently created, and still all of them go unanswered.
And now the announcement of the second patch is here, and not one single mention of fixing any of thease issues.. well thats just special isen't it.

It took us 3 months to get here, so will it take another 3 for them to release a patch that actually lets me play the game? will i really have to wait half a year to see my 60 Bucks come alive on my screen? hell, will they ever fix it?


Gah, i feel like a broken record sometimes, as this is really all i can say about UT3, its all i have actually experianced, this is all UT3 has given me.
If it where any other game, i would have said "stuff it" and moved on by now, but i do love UT..

ambershee
29th Jan 2008, 08:41 AM
A better term may be "spearheaded", because, let's be honest, modding BEFORE Unreal was a terrible pain and not any fun.

Quake was a pleasure to mod.

Pser
29th Jan 2008, 02:16 PM
UT3 is a complete failure, and will remain so, sorry. Even if they fix all the bugs. Another prime example of ppl not learning from their mistakes.(ut2k3). It was not as bad as ppl say. Online numbers in classic modes were on par with ut2k4. What made ut2k4 popular was Onslaught. Ie fresh and new gametype in times of fierce competition. This isnt 1998 anymore. UT3 failed to deliver something original, like TF2. Thus it will fail. Epic can fix the UI and such things, but the game will still not gain much more popularity, because ppl playing Deathmatch/teams in other games will not see any reason to change.

Back to the roots is good and nice, but you have to have a large user base for that. See how CS with 150K online popularity evolved into CS(100K)+CSS(50K).

The only way to rescue the game now would be to excel, if not in gametype uniqueness, but in game polishing and user friendliness. And this does not mean just fixing stuff, but fully rewriting many things. Seeing the current state of the game, and stubbornness Epic showed in fixing that,(hey we do not even have UTV, again) i dont see it ever happens.

They can add something in UT4, but this will not save UT3.

MonsOlympus
29th Jan 2008, 08:00 PM
Seriously compared to UT2004 the maps are far better. A lot of the maps in UT2004 really sucked gameplay wise. One of the few good ones was DM-Rankin. UT3 is very strong gameplay wise. And about the gameplay being geared towards consoles I really don't know where your getting this info from.... UT3 was designed for both consoles and PC's

Yeah I think alot of people are confusing "dumbed down" with "consolization" which arnt exactly the same thing. From the beginning we knew UT2007 was coming to PS3 and PC, after that it was the 360 announcement, now at this point I felt the need to step up and say something.

Yet, I was assured by people and even Epic themselves things would be fine and we would still get a great game. Which we did, but my concerns voiced or not didnt change a thing (not that I expected anything) when I look back now though I wonder that if the person working on the UI for UT3 had looked at my posts (some of which were lost in the great war of the forums RIP 2007).

Anyways my point is that if this person/people had perhaps taken some notes on what I was saying about PC gaming then they would have realized a PC game is just as much about the interface as it is about the gameplay. So while I love everything after hitting fire to enter the arena (yes tourney remember) I just feel sad that my worries were shrugged off, especially at a point where something could have been done to fix things.

This reminds me of an interview, was it mark rein or jeff morris, yeah well someone used a quote about Epic knowing how to make good PC games. Sure Epic can make brilliant games and I'll pit their gameplay against the gameplay of any other company, but the game doesnt start or end with the gameplay it starts and ends in the interface so perhaps thats why its the first thing on peoples minds when they complain about UT3.

Its not all bad as I have been saying and the new menu music is great but when you are rushing through the interface to get it out of your face as quickly as possible you dont stop to enjoy it.

Well thats enough beating of that horse, I just had to have my say on the matter and how I think Epic totally neglected people who havent been banned from the official forums. It would have been nice to think that Epic actually listened you know, I dont expect them to but when they respond on more than one occasion to let you know your concerns are unwarranted... I mean can you blame me for feeling shrugged off.

Now onto acouple of things I love about the game before I break it down on some of the gameplay stuff I dont like, not bugs but actual direction the gameplay went, no not features omitted like dodge jump either. That horse is covered with maggots and is half eaten :lol:

The art direction is brilliant as BBurkart mentioned and I'll definately have to agree on the maps side of things. Original content is where UT3 was at so for all of you who think they could have come up with all that in acouple of months you better recheck your thinking. 2k4 relied heavily on content from another UT title, specifically 2k3, Ive said it before but 2k4 to me was a mess of two games and I fell on a whole UC2 and also UT3 provide a more cohesive experience.

Im happy with my purchase though and I would have bought it even if there was 0 people playing it online, if its a niche its my niche and I'll stay here forever. Call me crazy but Im not going to change what I like just because my friends happen to like playing all that wargame stuff I get bored of. Fast paced in your face action is what I like and Epic delivered!

Then I look at the vehicle game types and think, you know I do kinda like 2k4's vehicles better. Then Im thinking why? I certainly like the new look and the necris vehicle set but its not about looks, perhaps this is one area I feel Epic went too arcade and dumbed things down. I can hear the screams of "consolized for PC" already, but thats not it, vehicles can be controlled better on gamepads for the most part so making the vehicles simplified isnt because of that.

I'll go alittle off track for a second and say that Ive spoken to new players to UT3 who didnt spend alot of time in 2k4 and only played alittle UT. You know what they said? UT3 has alot of depth, I tend to agree especially for people who havent been around in the UT scene, vehicles with alt firemodes and the addition of the hoverboard.

So what is it about the vehicles, for me its the auto-brakes and this cruddy anti-roll assist system which makes the vehicles float like leaves in the wind when they are in the air (Talking more about the land vehicles here) and the lackluster weaponry for a few of the necris vehicles. So while there might be alot of depth there its overshadowed alittle by these vehicles which a 2 year old can drive. OMG reminds me of the raptor damage when you crash into something, you can fly that thing with your eyes shut and still not die unless you get shot down :lol:

Okay now that said the interface could be refered to as "consolized" in my eyes but the vehicles certainly are "dumbed down", I just cant seem to place the blame on the consoles for that one. It seems it has more to do with the gameplay direction Epic took with the vehicles and is the only major problem over the interface (which I can put up with btw) I have with the game.

I still play warfare and vctf though, warfare I actually really enjoy despite the problems I have with the vehicles. Perhaps some people just see an easy target and aim at Epic when really they should be busy talking about the problems with COD4 over at those forums. If UT3 had 30k players Im sure we could spare 1k of those to go around trolling other games forums to try and stop people buying the game. From what Ive seen the people true to Unreal and the franchise stick with it no matter what, I disliked 2k4 but I still played it and I still modded for it even after source came out.

I just have no illusions about games these days and can see things for what they really are, Im not gonna bull**** you guys because Im sure most of you can see right past that. Infact the games industry is going the way of the movie biz, spiderman one did how well at the box office, then we look at spiderman 3 vs halo 3 which one did better? Well I heard Halo 3 sold better than a movie, yups you got that right.

Then again its all about this "quality drama" on TV these days isnt it? Its all about risk and I think Epic took one with UT3, perhaps it didnt pay off like Gears but hell atleast they tried, I wish more studios could be so bold instead of sticking with whats pop. Multiplayer, Singleplayer and Cooperative gameplay all in one title! Need I say more? Well I can, Gears did that right? Wheres the AI in Multiplayer... Non existant perhaps but lets also not forget that Gears is also an Epic game along with the other greats such as Unreal.

I could go on but I think some of you might want to check what you say and if you dont know what you are on about then just dont say anything, it really doesnt help things for those of us who want to say something that we feel is of actual importance. This is probably the main reason my concerns were shrugged off in the first place, then again Im not gonna blame anyone Im just here to make some of you think about a few things.

Im not done yet either, being a modder as well I have got into the Unrealed and UScript. The new editor is brilliant and the support materials which come with the CE, I mean these two things alone are worth the price I paid without getting a free game ;) but nups I get a free game and free mods. I'll just take alittle time to thank everyone who has done some modding for UT3 and supports it.

I do have some issues here though which go back to the interface, also the interface editor in unrealed. I wont go into much detail but lets just say there is some really akward stuff to work around or features which are missing which I would have loved to have access to. That though isnt a huge issue and I can see why Epic does things a certain way, not only do they provide middleware they provide games as well so Im willing to stick by them for the most part with some of those descisions. If I had full engine access this certainly wouldnt be an issue for me and since Im not selling anything if I cant do something or I have to work around something thats just part of it. Perhaps I would consider if its worth my time more carefully and even further realize, that hard descisions like this is what Epic does every day.

Thank you.

P.S Trying to make up for a year worth of lost rants :lol:

One last thing I forgot on the topic of support... Dont any of you guys take holidays over christmas? Hell I know its summer over here and everyone parties, Im gonna cut Epic some slack on this till well about now :)

dub
29th Jan 2008, 08:24 PM
And about the gameplay being geared towards consoles I really don't know where your getting this info from.... UT3 was designed for both consoles and PC's

:p
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dubdesign/BuF/ControlerTesting.jpg
To me it feels like UT3 was designed for consoles and then made to run on PC's.

Kou
29th Jan 2008, 08:43 PM
I love the tags. For productivity's sake, I just thought I'd reiterate the fact that no matter who's right it's still not going to solve anything.

Kantham
29th Jan 2008, 08:47 PM
Oh dear god!

TL;DR! :lol:

Sil
29th Jan 2008, 10:13 PM
*Remote whining*

As much as UT2k4 was a combination of 2 games or not, it imo is a better game than UT3 because it done things right. Comparing metacritic scores, UT2k4 beats UT3 hands down. UT2k4 did many things right with the UI. Doesn't make sense why would Epic backtrack on what was right to what is wrong for UT3. You don't try to fix what isn't broken.

If Epic kept UT2k4's style of gameplay, amount of content and UI with UT3's graphics and new content, I would love the game to no end.

I prefer dodge jump and how the maps were scaled before and still do after playing UT3 more and more each day. I think UT3 is a good game just it pales in comparison to what UT2k4 achieved.

Again... its been said before but the game wasn't ready when it was launched. Large patches like these are a good example of how much the game was unfinished. Epic wore a quad lens blinders on their eyes during the beta demo and now paying dearly for it with the core community up in rampage.

*end remote rant*

NubBlubber
29th Jan 2008, 10:50 PM
i tried to read this thread most of you are on crack it doesnt make sense at all quit reading after a few pages

ut3 feels like a game that should have come out years ago and someone found on a old disk and updated the graphics and added some vehicles.

MonsOlympus
29th Jan 2008, 11:39 PM
TL;DR! :lol:

Not even the P.S at the bottom ;)

T2A`
30th Jan 2008, 12:41 AM
To me it feels like UT3 was designed for consoles and then made to run on PC's.I agree. And I'm not even referencing the UI. It seems to me that at every design decision they went with what would work best in a console environment without f**king up things for the PC. The proper way to handle that, given that we are supposedly their "bread and butter" is to design everything for the PC and then change the result to fit console play. It doesn't feel like the latter is what happened.

WorldInfo is where TimeDilation is set. If it were true that UT3 is designed for PCs, then it would run at 100% time dilation on PCs, because that's real time. Consoles would then have the dilation toned down to 90% or so. However, in UTGame we find...


function SetGameSpeed( Float T )
{
...
UTTimeDilation = bConsoleServer ? 1.0 : 1.1;
...
}


...which says, "If the game is running on a console, set the time dilation to 1.0 (100%), otherwise set it to 1.1 (110%)." That means 100% time dilation was designed for consoles and that it is artificially sped up for PC play!

UT3 is officially a console game!

Unfortunately, I believe both UT2003/4 run at 110% as well, so I guess you could say they were originally designed for console as well. I suppose that makes sense because UT2003 did start out a console game... But that only supports my theory since, with a new engine, UT3 had no real reason to inherit that 110% dilation...

Oh, the horror!

GGA_Nate
30th Jan 2008, 12:58 AM
poop

Pser
30th Jan 2008, 03:44 AM
UT3 is not entirely crap. It has some pretty amazing art in it
ok

A big reason I think people hate UT3 so much is that they have been expecting too much out of the game
yes, expecting webadmin or favorites was too much.

If you think Epic is full of a bunch of people who don't know wtf they are doing I'd like to see you come up with something better.
Or, i could go and buy another, better, product. Thats what money are for, so i dont have to do it myself. Which most ppl did.

Gryph
30th Jan 2008, 12:01 PM
rarrgghh scorpion rarrrggg nemesis raaaagh bots raaaaargh UT3

Me, I think it (PC UT3, at least) just could've spent a few more months in the oven. You know, what with the 'UT3_RC7' disc title and the patch being released... what, a week after retail release of the game? Not good.

And why do people put FPSes on consoles I still don't get it.

evilmrfrank
30th Jan 2008, 12:12 PM
ok

yes, expecting webadmin or favorites was too much.


Or, i could go and buy another, better, product. Thats what money are for, so i dont have to do it myself. Which most ppl did.

A lot of those features are coming in with the next new patch. Just give it time. A lot of the people who are complaining about these small things likely weren't around for UT2k3 when it came out, or even UT1 as they both had a large ammount of issues. Epic has always been good at attending to these issues so don't worry about them. I do agree however that they should have waited perhaps a month or two more even though I recall how much crying there was before the game was released that they should just hurry up and release it. After the game gets released everyone starts crying saying they should have waited....

Zarniwoop
30th Jan 2008, 12:13 PM
My whine: UT99 is better.

Jonathan
30th Jan 2008, 12:37 PM
I wished it would have been released last year, or since it was released seemingly much later, at least had some nice post effects, have it be very tweakable like UT2k4, HL2:, and other PC games.

I feel like the game overall has been "simplified" and not in a good way.

Unreal Engine 4 = can't wait to see it. :)

Lostsoul
30th Jan 2008, 03:02 PM
A lot of those features are coming in with the next new patch. Just give it time. A lot of the people who are complaining about these small things likely weren't around for UT2k3 when it came out, or even UT1 as they both had a large ammount of issues. Epic has always been good at attending to these issues so don't worry about them. I do agree however that they should have waited perhaps a month or two more even though I recall how much crying there was before the game was released that they should just hurry up and release it. After the game gets released everyone starts crying saying they should have waited....

The mentality that a game will be "getting it in the next patch so wait" is bull ****. You pay for a completed product. You should get a completed product. What would these companies do with out the internet? They would die in a fire because they don't know how to release a finished product.

I played UT99 for a long time without ever updating it. I get pissed off and barely play UT3 after a month.

S^nth
30th Jan 2008, 03:25 PM
A history and favorites tab that worked would be nice, thx..

I echo that.

Pser
30th Jan 2008, 04:16 PM
BBurkart
Like said, even if they fix everything, the targeted audience already plays other games and there is little reason for them to come back. As for the competitive game... lets be honest, even if Epic wished(and the example of ut/2k3/2k4 shows they do not) it will it take them a year or two to implement UTV/anticheat/other things and for the average Joe to actually possess hardware necessary for cups. Thats 2 years. Who cares by then.

At best they will get me and other whiners. But we do not make the picture, casual players do.

Pser
30th Jan 2008, 06:47 PM
But HEY. You ppl think Epic feels sorry? no way. Thats what they say:

"It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it," adding "the market that would buy a $600 video card knows how Bittorrent works." Epic is currently developing Unreal Tournament 3 for the PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 in-house.
Now we know the real issue. We, players, are guilty in low online numbers. It is very easy to pirate UT3, because it requires a CD key to play online. :rolleyes: Mark Rein eated his brain.

MonsOlympus
31st Jan 2008, 01:32 AM
Hmmz there was a time I used to get all my patches off of demo disks, sure I might have had the internet but 56k was slow as so it was easier just to spend my $10 a month and get a gaming mag.

Sure I'll agree that companies should do their very best to release products in the best possible state. Perhaps if reviewers wernt all wow'd by graphics then games like farcry would have got a true rating based on what a buggy piece of **** it was at release. Reminds of the original Sin game which got hammered because of all the bugs (despite having good graphics), I think it rated in the high 80%'s in my local game mag yet with the release of the expansion the game became alot more stable and long standing issues were fixed. Ofcoarse it still wasnt a perfect game but hey what game is?

Its obvious though with the name change Epic didnt think they were gonna make the 2007 release, so they covered their bases and called it UT3 instead. We got the game in 2007 though so Im happy I got to play it sooner but I never once said Epic should get it out the door ASAP because I want to play it now.

Also Im gonna go alittle off track and mention Gears and from what Ive heard thats also got bugs and stuff, which I found wierd because dont live games, PC or Xbox, have to pass certification? Where Im sure with UT3 theres was less of this on the PC version vs PS3 or 360.

Alot of people do seem to think Midway is behind the rushed release so perhaps its also MS who was pushing for Gears on PC to help their sliding Live system on Windows. Hopefully this will make publishers aware that its not good to force products out, if this is the case, and that players wont sit back and be quiet on the matter if they feel they could have recieved something better.

Has anyone mentioned the visual popping and artifacts of DM-Arsenal yet?

DocB
31st Jan 2008, 06:25 AM
The publisher sets the impossible deadlines the developer has to meet. It's all about money. I wonder why Epic just didn't publish themselves. That's probably about money as well.

Jonathan
31st Jan 2008, 09:36 AM
True, because it's not like Midway actually markets anything. :\

One guy at Epic said in an interview (early 07 or late 06 I think) that if "UT2007" (UT3) didn't do well, they weren't sure they'd make another one, but again in the Collector's Edition UT3 videos, Rein said he can't see Epic ever, not doing a UT.

IronMonkey
31st Jan 2008, 12:52 PM
See our complaint thread and feel free to add to it if you like.

That wouldn't be here would it?

I ask, because in a superb example of prejudicing the debate this is called the whining thread, not the complaint thread.

Could we have the thread title altered to use a more neutral term please?

T2A`
31st Jan 2008, 01:14 PM
Nope, sorry. Brizz's bias must prevail throughout BuF.

Sir_Brizz
31st Jan 2008, 01:15 PM
Do you ever have any idea what you are talking about?

hal
31st Jan 2008, 01:33 PM
That wouldn't be here would it?

I ask, because in a superb example of prejudicing the debate this is called the whining thread, not the complaint thread.

Could we have the thread title altered to use a more neutral term please?

Nope, sorry. Brizz's bias must prevail throughout BuF.

Nereid started the thread. I did change the thread title, however.

T2A`
31st Jan 2008, 01:56 PM
Yes, but it was Brizz who merged every "negative" thread into it. Threads that don't fit into his view of what's acceptable get tossed into this failure pile.

fuegerstef
31st Jan 2008, 01:57 PM
UT3 is officially a console game!

Important things need to be repeated.

CoF.Wulf
31st Jan 2008, 02:05 PM
I'd be interested to know what exactly the "UT3 is for console tards!" crowd thinks would be different about the gameplay if the console versions didn't exist.

My gripes with UT3:
- Aiming is a bit weird
- The Hellbender is too wimpy
- The Cicada's primary fire goes everywhere except where you're actually pointing it
- The Nightshade is ridiculously annoying
- The Enforcer is inaccurate

Sir_Brizz
31st Jan 2008, 02:06 PM
Yes, but it was Brizz who merged every "negative" thread into it. Threads that don't fit into his view of what's acceptable get tossed into this failure pile.
Actually, I haven't merged anything into this thread, further solidifying the fact that you don't know what you are talking about.

IronMonkey
31st Jan 2008, 02:07 PM
I did change the thread title, however.
Thank you.

fuegerstef
31st Jan 2008, 02:09 PM
I'd be interested to know what exactly the "UT3 is for console tards!" crowd thinks...

Has been listed so often already that people get tired of listing it again... ...and no, it is NOT only the UI.

Sir_Brizz
31st Jan 2008, 02:11 PM
For some people.

Jonathan
31st Jan 2008, 02:43 PM
Group hug. :D

Dezx
31st Jan 2008, 03:45 PM
Specs are too high :o

Jonathan
31st Jan 2008, 03:50 PM
Specs are too high :o

What, a $100 GPU and a $100 processor means the specs are too high?

You playing this on an E-machine? ;)

evilmrfrank
31st Jan 2008, 04:05 PM
specs are not high. Even if they were you shouldn't expect much different.... UT3 is a next gen game and will have next gen requirements.

Sir_Brizz
31st Jan 2008, 04:07 PM
The specs are pretty high. For an enjoyable online experience anyway.

Kou
31st Jan 2008, 05:04 PM
My complaint: Brizz's monkey's too puffy and serious cat has left my life. Oh well, I guess we have to live with it. :-)

Cobra
31st Jan 2008, 05:57 PM
I think that epic should do if possible. Is to take UT99 whit all the stuff in it, the size of the bots, the skins, the weapons.


The way that the AI is playing, the maps, all the game play.

Then take the UT3 charecters, weapons. Games like warfare and so on. A mix of those 2 games. I really think that it whould be a winer for sure. Whit the exact game play of UT99. But whit the new engine. And that you could chose betewn weapons, bots, and so on

And Make another UT whit all those put together whit the U3 engine. I really think that it will be a GOTY for sure, and that no one whould winne at the game. But of course I mean a finish product this time

FPS.HeadShot
31st Jan 2008, 09:06 PM
wish they would have waited, not as good as ut2004!

Anisotonic
2nd Feb 2008, 02:14 AM
yesterday, for a change, I was able to play for 90 minutes straight without a crash. I had a very enjoyable round of Floodgate, ramming a lot of people with scavengers and vipers, actually I owned a darkwalker almost alone with a scav which was truly amazing. it made me wonder why no one plays the game, even though they spent 50 bucks for it. I know that everything outside of gameplay truly is shameful, but the game itself is as good as it was before. some issues are grave enough to warrant some proper whining but still no reason to let the game down so early. I'm not so sure that leaving all the servers empty and complaining here instead will motivate epic to finish the game and make more maps. do you guys not want a glorious, all dx10 UT2009?

NedroidicusPrime
2nd Feb 2008, 02:25 AM
yesterday, for a change, I was able to play for 90 minutes straight without a crash. I had a very enjoyable round of Floodgate, ramming a lot of people with scavengers and vipers, actually I owned a darkwalker almost alone with a scav which was truly amazing. it made me wonder why no one plays the game, even though they spent 50 bucks for it. I know that everything outside of gameplay truly is shameful, but the game itself is as good as it was before. some issues are grave enough to warrant some proper whining but still no reason to let the game down so early. I'm not so sure that leaving all the servers empty and complaining here instead will motivate epic to finish the game and make more maps. do you guys not want a glorious, all dx10 UT2009?

meh, most of them are ticked that they got banned from the Epic forums.

I certainly agree with you, and we will hopefully see more ppl get on with the 2nd patch...

T2A`
2nd Feb 2008, 02:28 AM
...but the game itself is as good as it was before...That's a matter of opinion. Many, myself included, don't agree. And it has nothing to do with it being like UT99; I find UT99 enjoyable.

do you guys not want a glorious, all dx10 UT2009?How would that be any different? As it stands, none of UT3's ramped-up visuals affect gameplay. It's all fluff, and from a gameplay standpoint, pointless. The game is more a visual upgrade with merely okay maps than anything, which is kind of stupid. If they made DX10 UT2009 it'd be par for the course.

jasposfagot
2nd Feb 2008, 04:05 AM
yesterday, for a change, I was able to play for 90 minutes straight without a crash. I had a very enjoyable round of Floodgate, ramming a lot of people with scavengers and vipers, actually I owned a darkwalker almost alone with a scav which was truly amazing. it made me wonder why no one plays the game, even though they spent 50 bucks for it. I know that everything outside of gameplay truly is shameful, but the game itself is as good as it was before. some issues are grave enough to warrant some proper whining but still no reason to let the game down so early. I'm not so sure that leaving all the servers empty and complaining here instead will motivate epic to finish the game and make more maps. do you guys not want a glorious, all dx10 UT2009?

meh, most of them are ticked that they got banned from the Epic forums.

I certainly agree with you, and we will hopefully see more ppl get on with the 2nd patch...

This is the Official UT3 whining thread, I mean the Official UT3 complaint thread, please keep all the happy good talk out of here, place it in the Happy thread. In all fairness, these posts should be moved, any negative posts in the Happy thread, get moved. ;)

brdempsey69
2nd Feb 2008, 01:25 PM
UT3 is the best AND worst game in the series!

a feat no one thought Epic could actually pull off. making the game play better than any other UT and then killing it off at the same time - wtf :(

There it is in a nut shell. The core elements are there in UT3, but the finishing touches aren't. First post I've seen in this thread that really tells it like it is.

Grasshopper
2nd Feb 2008, 02:20 PM
Why is BU now the fall-back home for the refuse of the official boards?
We don't need spamming trolls.

Sometimes people who get banned from the official boards are banned for a reason...

Mostly people get banned because that little Nazi, War Tourist, gets a wild hair up his A$$. Almost any post that is not some FANatic gushing about the glorious Epic accomplishments is a target. Earlier today I saw a post vanish because it was a complaint about the Flak Cannon arc in alt fire.

IronMonkey
2nd Feb 2008, 02:41 PM
#307 is surely worthy of some admin attention?

Language like that isn't called for.

SkaarjMaster
2nd Feb 2008, 03:54 PM
what kind of language is that you're f-ing talking about?;)

Seriously though, just remember it's not going to be UT2009, but UT4.:)

Pser
2nd Feb 2008, 06:22 PM
just saw the news on the UT3 forum(still not deleted) Crysis was sold over 1mio times already.

dunnie
2nd Feb 2008, 06:24 PM
ut 2009 in november 2008

hal
2nd Feb 2008, 07:40 PM
Grasshopper, while this is the complaint thread. I'd appreciate if you keep it geared towards the game.

PHME
2nd Feb 2008, 07:44 PM
Anyone else find that the game crashes sometimes when playing Deck? It doesn't happen all the time, but it sometimes locks up randomly in the middle, and the only way out is to do a hard reset.

NedroidicusPrime
2nd Feb 2008, 09:18 PM
This is the Official UT3 whining thread, I mean the Official UT3 complaint thread, please keep all the happy good talk out of here, place it in the Happy thread. In all fairness, these posts should be moved, any negative posts in the Happy thread, get moved. ;)

Dude, if you want to whine and not try to look for ways to remedy the cause of your whining, go right ahead. It's just a little too pessimistic for me. Children complain, adults try to do something about it.

As for me, if I have a complaint I state it in a constructive manner, and try to find a way to resolve it (either by myself or with help).

So don't start whining about me having a positive attitude, just because you don't.


WHERE THE F IS THE PATCH!!!!!!:mad:

Pser
2nd Feb 2008, 11:49 PM
I'm not so sure that leaving all the servers empty and complaining here instead will motivate epic to finish the game and make more maps.
Quite honestly you have a pretty strange insight of motivations in our world. The only thing which motivates Epic and Midway is money. These are not charity companies. Ignore the game and they'll start noticing and fixing stuff. But if youre buying and playing it, what reason do they they have to do anything. Correct, no reason. So assuming everyone will go and play the game, that would only mean a sign of acceptance for the crappy UI and everything else whats wrong with the game and they'll never fix it.

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 01:02 AM
Your theory makes no sense when looking at the company's history.

evilmrfrank
3rd Feb 2008, 01:09 AM
Yea.... Epic makes tons of money off the dozen bonus packs they have released right? Epic has a much better record of releasing patches and fixing things up than any other company I know of.

Munchables
3rd Feb 2008, 01:37 AM
has anyone realised, that epic took out the m-m-m-monster kill thingy? thats just not right for unreal!

Crotale
3rd Feb 2008, 03:30 AM
Worst thread award here. Lama mama lama mama lama mama lama mama lama mama lama mama lama mama lama mama lama...that's all I'm discerning from all this. Must get oxygen...can't breath...air quality low...

Pser
3rd Feb 2008, 03:57 AM
You cant tell me they are not interested in money. Especially with all that multiplattform going. There is truth in what youre saying yes, and i must admit youre probably more right than me, or at least i hope so. But time is changing. (publishers too) Bonus packs they were actually selling too.(hello goty/ece edition). The original Unreal didnt had d3d/ogl support, or very basic i dont remember anymore, so that was a lot of work to patch.

IronMonkey
3rd Feb 2008, 05:03 AM
Your theory makes no sense when looking at the company's history.

As our Financial Services Authority is fond of saying, "Past performance is not a guide to future returns."

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with Pser's theory but your position seems to be based on the assumption that Epic as a company does not change in its modus operandi (if I may put words into your mouth).

The evidence does not support such a assumption.

Company history might have led us to expect (for example):
PC-only release
Webadmin in the retail version
More tweaking options in the GUIThese things changed because people change, markets change, times change, technologies change, publishers change and companies change.

Even though I find some of the decisions that Epic have made around the botched release of UT3 disappointing, I would defend absolutely their right to make those decisions. Its their game and their business.

I hope you are right and Epic do finish the game even if by way of patching but I do hear rumours from Cary that suggest that there has been some change in company ethos and I suggest that the decision to release a wilfully unfinished game is indicative of a change in attitude from the company*.

At some point though, a decision will be made to stop flogging the dead horse and start working towards UT3's 2k4 or simply to stop. We can have a discussion then to see if the game can be considered reasonably complete by that point in time.



* If the game was released when it was released because Midway (or Sony) held a contractual gun to Epic's head then I retract the suggestion.

DarQraven
3rd Feb 2008, 09:44 AM
+1

Crotale
3rd Feb 2008, 10:16 AM
Listen, I have put some serious thought toward this issue and it is my gut instinct that Epic did not "botch" the release on purpose. I see this as a Midway "foul-up," plain and simple. But even then, there may be multiple reasons that could even be in Midway's favor for going the route of what many consider to be the release of an unfinished product. One reason is the Sony contract that called for a limited time console exclusive. What gets me is that the game was released to both PC and PS3 during holiday sales, yet both games were released for quite a while before we saw any TV commercials. With all the other games being well advertised on PS3 for weeks, why Midway did not put more dough into UT3 commercials is beyond me.

Yes, there are some issues with the game that affect online play. But the single player isn't half bad even though it is honestly no better than the ladder style method we saw in previous UT games. IA is still great; heck, even the bots are halfway decent. But, some of you f*ckers just wanna complain for the sake of complaining. WTF, over? I mean, seriously, why all the bitching? With over half a million beta demo downloads before the PC release, I have to believe that most of you had adequate opportunity to play the game before plunking down your 49.99 USD. And if you didn't actually buy the game yet, what the hell are you bitching about? If you don't like it, don't f*cking buy it.

The way I see it is this; any UT game in existence, even if it rather sucks, still has more replay value than 99.9% of all other available games. That says a lot. Mons and I were chatting last night, and I told him that I always have at least one UT game on my hard drive, whereas the great Q3A/TA combo might make an occasional appearance.

Grobut
3rd Feb 2008, 10:28 AM
Yea.... Epic makes tons of money off the dozen bonus packs they have released right?

Actually, yes!

UT2k4 is still selling copies to this very day, because it is good and polished, it has been patched, bonus packed and modded to an allmost mirror shine, with only minor flaws (and the most grevious of thouse we can thank nVidia for).
People still host servers for it, they still play it online, many more still play it offline, and it is still selling!
Even UT99 still seems to move some copies to this day.

Solid patching and free bonus releases are a solid economic plan, especially for small or small'ish companies that cannot afford to have a new release every 6 months (in Epic's case, this seems to be the case because they are so invested in creating Engines, rather than constantly creating new games).

If the base game is good, it can enjoy a long life, and many sales long into the future, if you just breathe some new life into it every now and then, and it has worked well for Epic as a solid side income to their Engine sales and development.


Your theory makes no sense when looking at the company's history.

Sorry, but with this installation of UT, that is little to no comfort, as they (Epic) have allready cast aside all that history and given us something compleately different this time around.

There have been PC versions of UT, and there have been Console versions called UC, they where sepperate if similar franchises, and that was a good thing!

But this time, we get a cross platformer, and not the good kind like the CoD series that where sepperate but similar productions for their chosen platform, no, the bad kind where all versions are joined at the hip, and all versions end up unsatiesfactory because they are trying to be two things at once, and just cannot do it!

The PC users feel it is dumbed down, and lacks familiar functionallity, and the Console crowd struggle with a 30 FPS limit and gameplay that is not really that well geared twords their platform (but this is a PS3 game thus far, and there are so few PS3 titles that PS3 owners will take anything they can get! lets see about that Xbox version though, i predict very poor sales unless they do some radical polishing!).


Thats just the state of things, but one must wonder what it means for future developmet also, afterall, Epic promised the PS3 users mods, but how can that be possible if they do infact give us PC users what we want? if they give us the code base, new UI and the features we crave, our version will far exceed what is possible on the PS3, and all mods, outside of the most basic mutators, will rely on UI options and code that is never going to work on the PS3, how will mods even be created for the PS3 if our versions of the game are permitted to become too different from eachother?
And what about the Xbox release, will it too come with promises of mods created on PC beeing portable?

I for one seriously doubt that Epic will allow such things to happen, as clearly, the PC version is not the money maker here, and indeed, we have been promised nothing that will upset this "balance" between the two versions, it seems the PC version is doomed to stay joined at the hip with its console cousin(s).

And then there's bonus content, can Epic really give us something without giving it to the Console aswell? people would be furious! "how come they get this stuff? don't we matter? i payed for the game too you know!", so ofcourse, that means any and all bonus content would still be limited by what's possible on the Console, or sepperate content would have to be made which would also create animosity and jealousy.

I really hope that i am wrong, and that none of this will be an issue, but then again.. if i am wrong, that means all the PS3 users will get left behind eating our dust, and that is hardly fair to them in lieu of what they where promised, so that would be a rather hollow victory.


This release really is nothing like the UT's that came before it, and thus, i find it very hard to belive that we can rely on history repeating itself here, i very much doubt the PC version will ever be more than a PS3 port (though my hope is that modders will be our saving grace here, but then again, they seem to be fleeing the community because of Epic's attitude and lacking communication, and the game beeing so annoying and restrictive to mod for, and i somewhat doubt the code base as is would even allow for a mod of the "Ballistic Weapons" scale).

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 12:10 PM
As our Financial Services Authority is fond of saying, "Past performance is not a guide to future returns."

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with Pser's theory but your position seems to be based on the assumption that Epic as a company does not change in its modus operandi (if I may put words into your mouth).

The evidence does not support such a assumption.

Company history might have led us to expect (for example):
PC-only release
Webadmin in the retail version
More tweaking options in the GUIThese things changed because people change, markets change, times change, technologies change, publishers change and companies change.

Even though I find some of the decisions that Epic have made around the botched release of UT3 disappointing, I would defend absolutely their right to make those decisions. Its their game and their business.

I hope you are right and Epic do finish the game even if by way of patching but I do hear rumours from Cary that suggest that there has been some change in company ethos and I suggest that the decision to release a wilfully unfinished game is indicative of a change in attitude from the company*.

At some point though, a decision will be made to stop flogging the dead horse and start working towards UT3's 2k4 or simply to stop. We can have a discussion then to see if the game can be considered reasonably complete by that point in time.



* If the game was released when it was released because Midway (or Sony) held a contractual gun to Epic's head then I retract the suggestion.
If you were around for the Unreal release and the UT2003 release, this launch is really nothing new to you. Yes, it would be nice if Epic had learned from those two releases (whether this is their fault or not, the multiplayer component should have honestly been done last January), but the reality of the situation is that this release is just like both of those releases, with critical pieces of the software missing/promised for the future, a poorly designed UI, an only moderately workable multiplayer component at launch, the list could go on. Most of these woes existed with Unreal and UT2003 at launch as well.

What I meant by looking at Epic's past is that they have classically always supported their PC games for much longer than it can possibly be cost effective for them to do so. I'd be much more worried about buying one of the console ports, because Epic does not have a tradition of supporting their console games for much length of time after release.

IronMonkey
3rd Feb 2008, 12:39 PM
If you were around for the Unreal release and the UT2003 release...

I was.

I do think there is a difference in the degree of problems this time round.


What I meant by looking at Epic's past is that they have classically always supported their PC games for much longer than it can possibly be cost effective for them to do so.

I don't disagree that Epic have provided good post-retail release support for PC titles.

However, that does not "prove" that future support of similar quality will be provided for a game that hasn't exactly flown off the shop shelves.

I was quibbling over "makes no sense" as I felt that you were using the past to predict the future. I felt that a rather strong position to take on the basis of past behaviour.

If you were referring only to the past and not making a prediction about the future for the game and its support then I was mistaken in quibbling (if you were referring to the future then I stand by what I wrote). I hope that is clear! :)

I still hope that Epic do follow through and fix things because UT3 is capable of being fixed.

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 12:48 PM
I was.

I do think there is a difference in the degree of problems this time round.
Then you must not remember them very well :) If you, or anyone else, thinks UT2004 has had more than 500 players for the past 12 months, you are fooling yourself. The number of people playing on launch day or purchasing the game makes no difference if the online scene is a barren wasteland (or nearly anyway) within 6 months, which has now been true for three UT releases.
I don't disagree that Epic have provided good post-retail release support for PC titles.

However, that does not "prove" that future support of similar quality will be provided for a game that hasn't exactly flown off the shop shelves.

I was quibbling over "makes no sense" as I felt that you were using the past to predict the future. I felt that a rather strong position to take on the basis of past behaviour.

If you were referring only to the past and not making a prediction about the future for the game and its support then I was mistaken in quibbling (if you were referring to the future then I stand by what I wrote). I hope that is clear! :)

I still hope that Epic do follow through and fix things because UT3 is capable of being fixed.
There is no good way to make general predictions about how someone will act in the future except by looking at what they've done in the past. Even Gears got a bonus pack.

I realize that companies can change what they do as time goes on, but Epic's internal structure has changed very little from UT2003 time. It's unlikely that post-game support is something they will ever lose. It's one of the things that defines them and sets them apart from other companies, and I tend to think that Epic has a better finger on the pulse of the community than bigger companies.

MonsOlympus
3rd Feb 2008, 12:55 PM
Well Im wondering what these commercials are you speak of and ummz you know a friend and I had to drive around to 4 different places to find a copy of UT3 on PC shortly after christmas.

Alot of shops are console games up the front, then they have all these squashed faded PC games right up the back on a small shelf where you cant even see them.

Despite UT3's problems I cant help but get the feeling that PC games are being bullied off the good shelf spaces. Heres a novel idea perhaps put games by title for a change and not by platform, like I said the other day platforms dont sell games, games sell platforms.

Maybe I should fly on over to utforums and check to see what the complaints are on the PS3 version, or perhaps all the ones in this thread are relating to both versions of the game. When I talk about UT3 I talk about the one I own, the PC version, so perhaps I missed all the complaints about that version as well.

Wasnt there going to be skill matching in ut3? Well all of 2 DM servers here would make it hard to do this even if it is in there. I mentioned UT3 over on GameArena so hopefully they'll atleast get acouple up.

There is something in this majority rules mentality, if someone perhaps see's that cod4 sold alot more on a console they are like "oh wow I'll get it for that one then!" What do you think would happen if it was reversed for a change? Well we probably wont know as long as there is a bias in the industry towards console games.

ShredPrince
3rd Feb 2008, 01:12 PM
I agreee with the blind purchase theory. Too many UT fans just went out and bought UT3 thinking it was gonna be PERFECT, before even playing the demo. So, if your gonna pre-judge like that, and declace something as gold, when it's really pyrite, then just don't get pissy when the game is incomplete, mundane, and boring. It's to be expected.

IronMonkey
3rd Feb 2008, 01:15 PM
Then you must not remember them very well :) If you, or anyone else, thinks UT2004 has had more than 500 players for the past 12 months, you are fooling yourself.

We are writing about different things evidently.

I'm writing about issues in the product itself (bugs, missing features, unwanted features). I thought that you were also writing about that, not about player numbers.

I have made no claim regarding UT2004 player numbers relative to UT3 at this stage in the product lifecycle.

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 03:18 PM
We are writing about different things evidently.

I'm writing about issues in the product itself (bugs, missing features, unwanted features). I thought that you were also writing about that, not about player numbers.

I have made no claim regarding UT2004 player numbers relative to UT3 at this stage in the product lifecycle.
What I'm getting at is that those games were subpar. It doesn't matter what they were like at release.

UT2003 and UT2004 had significant drops in player numbers within the first 6 months, yet they continued to get patches and support from Epic. What do you think Epic is looking at to decide if they continue to support a game?

Also remember that the PC is the only development platform for modding on the consoles. That by itself makes the PC a very important platform for Epic. They are also going to do another MSUC at some point. That again makes the PC a very important platform. Epic is really pushing the console modding ability. If the PC completely fails, then that whole draw for console gamers disappears.

Frankly, if Epic stopped support for UT3 and UT3.5 came out in 13 months, I wouldn't be too upset :p But I know them and I know that even if they are currently working on UT3.5, they are not going to stop support for UT3.

IronMonkey
3rd Feb 2008, 04:10 PM
UT2003 and UT2004 had significant drops in player numbers within the first 6 months, yet they continued to get patches and support from Epic.

Those would be copies that Epic had already sold and so had some cashflow to finance the extended support. In the case of UT3, there does seem to be some doubt as to how many PC copies have been sold.

And to be clear, Epic have (or are about to with the 2nd patch) fixed many of my issues with the retail release. I still think it a disgrace that they released the product in the state that they did.

Also remember that the PC is the only development platform for modding on the consoles. That by itself makes the PC a very important platform for Epic. They are also going to do another MSUC at some point.

I agree. That might also justify some console profit subsidising PC patches. We can but hope.

Frankly, if Epic stopped support for UT3 and UT3.5 came out in 13 months, I wouldn't be too upset :p

I could live with that also. Do a third patch to UT3 and move on. Save the bonus content for UT3.5.

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 04:23 PM
Those would be copies that Epic had already sold and so had some cashflow to finance the extended support. In the case of UT3, there does seem to be some doubt as to how many PC copies have been sold.

And to be clear, Epic have (or are about to with the 2nd patch) fixed many of my issues with the retail release. I still think it a disgrace that they released the product in the state that they did.
I don't think the most avid game supporters would disagree with anyone else that the launch was not good.

Personally, though, I don't think Epic has ever made enough money off of UT (except maybe with the original game) to finance the amount of support they have given it.
I could live with that also. Do a third patch to UT3 and move on. Save the bonus content for UT3.5.
Indeed. I love the gameplay in UT3, but something like that would give them an opportunity to 1) ditch gamespy, and 2) redo the entire UI. Those two issues alone would bring half of the currently upset people back to the game.

IronMonkey
3rd Feb 2008, 05:17 PM
I don't think...would bring half of the currently upset people back to the game.

Sound as though we are more or less in agreement.

(I must have misunderstood something:) :)<---double smiley)

brdempsey69
3rd Feb 2008, 05:17 PM
I could live with that also. Do a third patch to UT3 and move on. Save the bonus content for UT3.5.

Indeed. I love the gameplay in UT3, but something like that would give them an opportunity to 1) ditch gamespy, and 2) redo the entire UI. Those two issues alone would bring half of the currently upset people back to the game.

I must differ with both of you there. The UI isn't a problem for me, it's the lack of options. Gamespy I can live with, but I don't really care for the prospect of having to spend 50 dollars for UT3.5 and know that I threw away that same 50 dollars on UT3. Let them fix UT3 and get it up to par and then release the next UT about 4 years from now. That would give ample time to build and release a fully finished product, because UT3 damn sure wasn't a finished product.

Sir_Brizz
3rd Feb 2008, 06:05 PM
That's not going to happen. When I said UI I specifically meant the options/functionality of the UI. I don't care about the design.

Scuzzbuster
3rd Feb 2008, 06:24 PM
This really still kills me when people level accusations that Epic doesn't support their releases or their fans. The amount of free bonus content they have provided with both UT and UT2KX is obscene. It was over a year after initial release that Epic put out their 4th big free bonus content package for UT and continued to patch and support the game long after that.

When you see games released these days with the popularity of a UT, generally, you're paying $30.00 8 months down the road for an official "Expansion" pack and no one blinks an eye. I would say if nothing else, Epic has spoiled it's fanbase so much with the free and continued support that they've turned many of the long term unreal community members into a bunch of whiners. The only thing that ever even approached a purchasable "Expansion" pack was UT2004. And hell, even the though the base of the game was still UT2003, you basically go in essence the the amount of content that would have been included with a new game in a addition to all that came with UT2003.

Another mind-boggler is the complaint even before UT3's release about the minimal content included...40 maps...you see big MP releases routinely coming out with fewer than a dozen maps. Hell, Quake Wars release with 9 maps...and that's pretty much standard.

Yep, with UT3, mistakes were made...it IS unpolished, but all the development time put into this game was put into making damned solid game play and a ton of content. Yep, the UI and everything wrapped around that could have used another few months of development and polish, but ultimately, Epic has committed countless PROFITLESS hours into their games.

T2A`
3rd Feb 2008, 09:22 PM
Bonus packs are not profitless endeavors in the least. From a business sense doing anything that is purely profitless is suicide. The bonus packs and other forms of support are there mainly to show people that they care about what they do. The goal is to get people to buy and continue to buy their products because they know they'll be buying a product someone actually cares about and will be supported for at least a year. And I'm not just talking about players, but other businesses as well, whether buying the engine or going into some partnership with Epic.

Additionally, much of UT's (all of them) content hasn't been done by Epic's hands at all. I don't know the numbers for UT3 yet, but most of UT2003/4's content was "outsourced" via contracts to well-known mappers and studios. DE had the core gameplay of UT2003 and many of the maps, DE returned to do maps for UT2004, tons of the rest of the levels were contracted out (Hourences did six of them, for instance), and even ONS was designed and implemented by another game studio. UT2004 was hardly Epic's game; it was their engine and they put all the contract stuff together. :p

unbecoming
4th Feb 2008, 01:03 AM
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/516/failboat2ux5ac4.jpg

End of Pictorial Review


------------------------------------

Rant

How dare Epic treat it's fans, it's supporters, it's, Quote Bread andButter /unquote like this. First they tell us about all the things that are going to be in the game, game modes etc, well, they weren't in the game, then they give us that abomination they called a 'demo', a 'beta' demo to boot, then they have even more gall, to thrust upon us that half assed, half finished, steaming turd they call a game. It's a travesty, an insult to UT'ers, with the most hideous menu ever created by man, plus all the other problems the game has (no need to mention them, I'm sure y'all well aware of them).

Worst still, they leave you in the dark, they will not respond to any questions on their official forums, they treat their customers like idiots, locking and deleting threads, even genuine threads for no apparent reason other than the author was not kissing Epics ass. People have posted threads about creating anti cheat measures for the game, this is the user creating it, not asking Epic to do it, the threads are closed without warning or reason. Make a negative comment about the game, Epic or Midway, about how there are few players playing, or comment on the sales figures, the thread will be Locked/Deleted, and in some cases you may even get banned for your trouble. It is truly pathetic some of the threads that are being locked and deleted, they are not doing themselves any favours.

It appears that Epic have left the PC gamers behind, in favour of the console gamers, every interview you see, it will be 99.9% about PS3/XBox, just look at the game, it's clearly made with console players/play in mind. They lie point blank to you, apart from the stuff that we were told would be in the game, they come out with quotes like the following, expecting you to swollow them,

"PC is our Bread and Butter" - yeah right, we can see that

"When it's done" - lol, UT3, when it's done, right ;)

"You can have it right now, or you can have it right" - lol, well, we certainly never got it 'right now', with all the delays etc, and we sure as hell never got it 'right', there must be another option to that statement, 'cause the game is a mess, as evidenced by the lack of players, and poor sales.

"There's a lot of cool stuff coming for this game" - Yeah, if we create it ourselves, or own a console maybe, don't forget us PC gamers, you know, your Bread and Butter

and on and on it goes, Mark Rein must be a walking fertilizer factory, every time he opens his mouth, sh!t comes out.

Very Disappointed

UT3 Editor > UT3.

All of the OP's points were quite legitimate complaints, many of which, as he mentioned, Epic has not addressed and has even gone to the lengths of shutting out and refusing to talk to their customer base. You can try to paint it like we're the ones who are out of line here if you want, but as a company that purports to convince us to buy their products, that is simply shoddy.

This is a web forum and it's here for people to express their opinions. There are a lot of negative opinions being expressed about this game for a reason and perhaps a large part of the reason we're so disappointed is because it's obvious that the game had so much potential to be awesome. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend like everything is ok and we should all just imagine that the game will be a great success someday, go right ahead I guess.

Yes, the complaints threads are getting a little old, but the whiny backlash against legitimate complaints is just as tiresome.

Post-Mortem from a Player's Point of View:

The issue with UT3's playerbase is a combination of several factors.

First, UT3's gameplay has relatively stayed the same despite some pretty significant changes to the PC gaming scene over the years. Some examples of this are the numerous weapons and speed. For better or for worse, the hardcore PC gamers are spread out over several titles now instead of the usual 3 (Quake, Half Life, UT). You have Team Fortress, Counter Strike, Quake, Battlefield, Crysis, Rocket Arena, Call of Duty, and other countless mods.

The games have simplified from a control, speed, aim perspective and moved to a much more team, strategy, timing-oriented gameplay. UT3 hasn't done a good job of making this transition. Any game that ships with 9 or 10 weapons, alt fire for all those weapons, even more complicated weapon firing modes for some of them (rocket launcher), a translocator, a hoverboard, etc.... its just begging to not be embraced by the majority of the "dumbed down" gaming playerbase right now.

Secondly, if you look at some other things about UT3, there are a few things that are really cool, but I don't think they add that much to the game for their overall time/money investment (from the point of view of a UT modder).

Some of the vehicles.
Hoverboard.
Customizable characters.

While all 3 of these things are really cool, they are also very complicated from a development standpoint and don't add that much to the value of the gameplay. Some of the vechiles in UT3 are just simply amazing technically, graphically, and conceptually. But, do they add that much to a game that doesn't do so many other basic things correct in the first place? They are awesome, but there isn't anyone around to appreciate them. I think they would have been much better off with the old way of just having a few different models and 100 different skins, textures, etc. Where are the maps? Where are the gametypes?

Finally, you have the technical issues which are a huge deal, in my opinion. 1) Lack of a linux support at launch (especially big deal for servers). 2) 0 percent mod support - you can't even MAKE a mod for UT3 yet... it doesn't support it. Not at all! For a game which has historically been carried by the mod community, this is a big BIG deal. 3) Horrible interface, game finder, stat tracking, etc.

I recently watched a dev diary from one of the guys at Epic... who said something about the "theory of thirds" where he talked about development with the idea that:

1) You keep 1/3rd of things the same that are the core of your game.
2) You introduce 1/3rd of things that are brand new.
3) You improve or tweak 1/3rd of the things that were already there.

It just seems to me that Epic got this all wrong and really wasn't in touch with its player/fanbase.

Things kept the same?
The weapons, primarily. But, given the evolution of PC gaming.... and looking at where the trends are going, why do this?

Things improved upon?
The movement? Maybe. But again, the feel, speed, and movement goes back to a more "hardcore" playerbase... probably not the best idea.

Things new?
A new gametype... but at the expense of other very popular gametypes. Customizable characters, but at the price of the 100s of textures and skins players are use to. The hoverboard. Some vehicles. Are these things worth the things lost or not done correctly?

My suggestions for Epic moving forward?

1) Get rid of the ego and realize that UT has had a good run. That being said, maybe its time to evolve UT as well.

2) Slim down the weapons. Come to terms with what is important weapon-wise, and cut the ones that aren't necessarily vital to UT's success or popularity.

3) Epic pioneered the modding scene and to have the lack of modding support thus far just isn't acceptable to me, imo. Of course, if their game was more popular, this probably wouldn't be an issue this early after release. Its just sad that more people are buying the game to mod with than play with... and the mod support isn't there that should be.

4) Keep the old gametypes that are popular, but start introducing new gametypes that are more in line with the current generation of gamers.

5) Before you introduce new things like hoverboards and customizable characters, be sure you take care of the things your fanbase has come to expect and love - levels and skins.

In the end... the UT universe needs a makeover. It needs to embrace the new generation of PC gamers (what is left of them). In my opinion, it feels like Epic made UT3 a "transition to console gaming" game.

I love the fact that UT3(PC) is a complete and utter failure as far as commercial success and player numbers go. It is getting what it, and Epic deserves, maybe they can learn something from this, and won't repeat it in the future, however I don't think they will learn, they don't seem to have learned a thing from the UT2003 debacle. They have just become to arrogant, thinking that their sh!t doesn't stink, well Epic, I can assure you, it does stink, and UT3 smells to high heaven. Pull your heads out of your arse's, stop being so arrogant, stop taking your fans, your supporters, your Bread and Butter for granted, stop treating them so badly, and maybe they will return the favor, listen to them and help them instead of ignoring them.

Failure - this is what I love the most about UT3, it may benifit us all in the future.

:p
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dubdesign/BuF/ControlerTesting.jpg
To me it feels like UT3 was designed for consoles and then made to run on PC's.

Mostly people get banned because that little Nazi, War Tourist, gets a wild hair up his A$$. Almost any post that is not some FANatic gushing about the glorious Epic accomplishments is a target.

Many of my mixed feelings are right here so no need to repeat what has been said.

Overall I can look beyond (plug ;) ) my problems with Epic,their professionalism,and what they have turned UT into.It's not all bad right now.

I guess my biggest fear is that a game that many of us have played,promoted,and loved for many,many years will just fade out on pc.I have always truly believed after playing many,many shooters over the years,that nothing compared to UT's fast and furious bloodbath style.I for one refuse to ever touch a d-pad again.Slow,Clunky,and awkward,for me anyway.

Now I have no problem with UT3 having slower everything for consoles.Whatever it takes to make that platform happy is great.However for Epic to force all of the things that suck the life right out of the game onto the pc crew is frustrating to say the least.

Wrapping it up-

The two thoughts that keep resurfacing for me are:

1.Epic seems to be shooting themselves in the foot with the pc community.It upsets me personally a lil' bit,but what really pisses me off is seeing them squander the opportunity to "make the game something big" hurting us all in the long run.

2.If UT ever ends on the pc then I feel as though gaming will never be the same for many us.There IS NO COMPARABLE fps and 3 pages of essay will ever be able to make me think any different.

I play the game to laugh,be challenged,and try to get some team chemistry clicking and after years of testing the waters I still shake my head at what the majority are playing.It just seems to me that the mainstream wants something they can learn in a day and get good at in a month.If a game is truly fun,then you will stay,laugh,pay your dues,and not mind about getting your ass handed to you,even if it's for the first 3 to 6 months.

Only time will tell,but I've laid down my torch and pitchfork long ago because Epic has shown me that they will do whatever they want their game and boards,even if it means hurting themselves in the process.


Sadpanda and AMCCulley nailed it for me and the pic was amusing,then it became scary seconds later.

Sir_Brizz
4th Feb 2008, 01:25 AM
I don't know why everyone says Epic doesn't allow complaining on their forums.

This thread in particular has lots of "complaining" in it, but as I've said a million times before on here, presentation is everything. Nobody that stays around on Epic's forums makes pointless jabs like "Now I'm using my UT3 DVD as a coaster...". It makes you look like an idiot, and will get you banned.

amcculley
4th Feb 2008, 02:32 AM
Epic is a business. I understand the need to broaden their supported platforms and go after console gamers. But, there are still PC games that are commercially successful - they just have to be good games. Anyone can make a decent game and turn a dollar or 2 on a console. That is all I'll say about that.

MonsOlympus
4th Feb 2008, 05:47 AM
Yeah Ive honestly gone to town with some rants on Epics forums especially after the announcement of the 360 version of the game or in regards to cross platform. Sure its not all complaining but it does make you wonder, I even got an infraction at one point but I was blatantly trolling (never banned though). The thread title I recieved the infraction for was "the price of a thread", mind you I havent been very vocal on anything for awhile.

I wonder if its just a new thing that people get banned, for what they are saying is no reason, or perhaps they are just annoyed because they realize they shouldnt have said something.

NedroidicusPrime
4th Feb 2008, 05:58 AM
i've seen it to where someone opens a thread saying 'this needs fixed' or 'i have this problem' and then the mod closes it with a link to the patch thread. then like 10 minutes later he had a flaming rant against Epic and the mods cause his thread was locked, then he got banned.

It was really funny, kinda link watching moths go to the flame.... *POOF*

Cybro-Thing
4th Feb 2008, 07:11 PM
Where's the love for Epic around here lately? :D



it has been gone completely since UT3 ate my computer.

Rahuah
4th Feb 2008, 07:14 PM
I'm disapointed with them right now, finding it hard to feel the love.

I got UT3 for PC that came with a bunch of dead horses.

I got UT3 for PS3 that came with more dead horses but it also has no
dodging or crouching with the KB, all the bugs that were present in the
original PC release prior to Patch 1.1 and it freezes up the console randomly
on the map loading screen.

I got Gears Of War for PC that hitches and stutters so bad its unplayable.

Wow, 3 for 3 at about $59.95 a pop. Yep, feeling the hard love right where
I dont want it. :mad::tdown:

NedroidicusPrime
4th Feb 2008, 07:24 PM
I'm disapointed with them right now, finding it hard to feel the love.

I got UT3 for PC that came with a bunch of dead horses.

I got UT3 for PS3 that came with more dead horses but it also has no
dodging or crouching with the KB, all the bugs that were present in the
original PC release prior to Patch 1.1 and it freezes up the console randomly
on the map loading screen.

I got Gears Of War for PC that hitches and stutters so bad its unplayable.

Wow, 3 for 3 at about $59.95 a pop. Yep, feeling the hard love right where
I dont want it. :mad::tdown:

Gotta tell ya man, much of what you are complaining about is either already addressed, or will be with the upcoming patch(es).

As far as freezing on ps3, never had a problem, so i cant help ya there.

*TO NOTE*
PS3 does have the ability to dodge, you just jump while holding a direction for movement. It really isn't too hard once you get used to it (especially with jump being set to R3 button). You can crouch, its just handled as a trigger in the map instead of a bound button/key. When you move to a console from PC, you are gonna have stuff like that, mainly due to lack of keys/buttons and hardware limitations.

As far as both UT3 and GoW running bad on your PC, what are your specs? What version of windows you got? You even tried to ask for help?

You would be surprised at how helpful the UT community is. It's just when you start whining (especially on a thread showing support for Epic), people will just get annoyed and say 'good riddance'.

Rahuah
4th Feb 2008, 07:31 PM
Gotta tell ya man, much of what you are complaining about is either already addressed, or will be with the upcoming patch(es).

As far as freezing on ps3, never had a problem, so i cant help ya there.

*TO NOTE*
PS3 does have the ability to dodge, you just jump while holding a direction for movement. It really isn't too hard once you get used to it (especially with jump being set to R3 button). You can crouch, its just handled as a trigger in the map instead of a bound button/key. When you move to a console from PC, you are gonna have stuff like that, mainly due to lack of keys/buttons and hardware limitations.

As far as both UT3 and GoW running bad on your PC, what are your specs? What version of windows you got? You even tried to ask for help?

You would be surprised at how helpful the UT community is. It's just when you start whining (especially on a thread showing support for Epic), people will just get annoyed and say 'good riddance'.

If the issues were addresses I would know about it.
*NOTE* KB = keyboard
Please don't go off topic, I was just answering the OP's question.

NedroidicusPrime
4th Feb 2008, 07:39 PM
If the issues were addresses I would know about it.
*NOTE* KB = keyboard
Please don't go off topic, I was just answering the OP's question.

WTF are you talking about keyboards for? I was pointing out that your issues were not really there. Now if you can't dodge on keyboard and you really want to dodge, just use controller. On the ps3 you won't really be at too much of a disadvantage.

And no, you weren't answering the OP's question, you were trolling. There is a whole complaint thread for that sort of thing, so please keep it over there.


*edit*
Ok, i missed that you mentioned KB in your original post. Other than that, don't get nasty when someone indirectly offers to help you with your issues.

Pser
4th Feb 2008, 09:23 PM
WTF are you talking about keyboards for? I was pointing out that your issues were not really there. Now if you can't dodge on keyboard and you really want to dodge, just use controller. On the ps3 you won't really be at too much of a disadvantage.
Why is NedroidicusPrime still not in "read-only" mode.

Mr. Scary
16th Feb 2008, 12:43 PM
Eh ..well I was thinking about finally picking up UT3 today but after reading this thread.

Can any seasoned vets gimme a run-down on this? Is it really THAT bad?? I thought the demo was decent, for what it's worth but damn this thread/novel makes me wonder if this game has flopped already?

Kantham
16th Feb 2008, 12:51 PM
If you're not a competitive player and don't mind spending most of your time playing offline, then go buy it.

IronMonkey
16th Feb 2008, 12:52 PM
I thought the demo was decent

If you thought the demo was decent then you should enjoy the full game. That's what the demo is telling you! :)

There are reports of low player numbers on servers (haven't looked) but it doesn't sound as though it is impossible to get an online game.

You should remember that this thread is designed to concentrate dis-satisfaction and will, of necessity, give you an unbalanced view of the game.

R.Flagg
16th Feb 2008, 12:53 PM
Well, consider this. If you owned the game right now, you could not even play. The game relies on Gamespy, and if they have issues (like right now) you can't play. And this is not the 1st time it's happened (for a game that's only a couple months old :eek:).

To be blunt, no "vet" can honestly recommend this game in it's current state. The only honest advice to give, would be to wait, and see how it goes. If you weren't "UT-addicted" enough to buy it on day 1, then no, you definitely should not buy it now.

Mr. Scary
16th Feb 2008, 12:53 PM
Damn....

Actually I love playing online. From what I've read things aren't looking too good. This is the first website I always go to for Unreal related news and I was rather shocked to see the amount of warranted/unwarranted criticism directed at the game.

If you weren't "UT-addicted" enough to buy it on day 1, then no, you definitely should not buy it now.

Heh, well I understand how you can draw that assumption but real life sometimes gets too busy to buy the latest FPS title. I've been playing Unreal since it first came out and was on a dial-up.

IronMonkey
16th Feb 2008, 01:13 PM
To be blunt, no "vet" can honestly recommend this game in it's current state. The only honest advice to give

To be blunt, I rather resent the implication of that quote.

Mr. Scary stated that he enjoyed the demo. That establishes a baseline of satisfaction. The game plus patch1 is a superior product to the demo - more content, function and bugfixes. Even though I am firmly on the pissed-off front with respect to UT3, I recognise that some people are enjoying the game. If someone enjoyed the demo then there really is no reason to suppose that they would not enjoy the game (for all its myriad defects).

I pointed out the possible issue with online player numbers and that this thread does give a distorted view. How was that less than honest?

Grobut
16th Feb 2008, 01:15 PM
To be blunt, the full game is excatly like the demo, but with some more maps and Warfare (its ONS, but with hoverboards, an "Orb" that will instantly capture a node, and sometimes you can do stuff like blow up a barricade.. so ONS really).

Its no less or more, remember the 2k3 release? yeah, its that all over, no assault, a bunch of missing options, annoying bugs, but this time there's also a useless server browser, the Admin tools are severely limited, there's no anti-cheat (and several nasty hacks and bots are allready out there), and the game is unstable on many systems (crashes and freezes).


The gameplay is good though, it really is, but its just in a sorry state, and to many of us, despite beeing big UT fans, it is not worth playing in this state, others feel it is ok, but only the blindest of fanboys will tell you that it is satiesfactory.

So get it at your own risk, but my personal opinion would be to wait it out, and see where this is all headed..

NedroidicusPrime
16th Feb 2008, 10:07 PM
wow, this thread is still going... do you guys really have nothing better to do? I mean hell, I liked the game and I have moved on to something else (until patch 2 at least).

Come on guys, i understand not liking it. For you 2kx fanboys out there complaining that it isn't 2kx, well guess what, us oldies got our game back. So sorry. Get a new hobby.

I mean, are you childish enough that you need to try and ruin things for everyone else? Were you that damn kid that always pissed in the pool just cause his mom told him to get out?

There are other games out there, and if you want to start whining about how "I just upgraded my system just to play UT3". First of all, you would prolly have upgraded soon anyways for something else. So don't blame your purchases on UT3. If anything you should be happy, cause now you can do your crazy Circue Du Soliel (is that how it's spelled?) moves in 2k4 at like 300fps now.

I myself have complaints with the game (ie, team balance, anti-cheat, etc), but I don't try to ruin it for people who have none. I guess that is one of the major benefits of growing up, you look for constructive ways to deal with things. It's like the Democrats over the past couple years doing nothing but b*tching about how bad Bush is, and not offering any alternatives other than "Whatever isn't what Bush is doing". I'm not a republican, and infact have always voted Dem, but it is just plain pathetic. I have seen children at the playground with more maturity...

Sorry bout the rant, but I saw the guy's post saying that he wouldn't get UT3 (even though he liked the demo) because of what you negative f*cktards have been saying.

NedroidicusPrime
16th Feb 2008, 10:12 PM
The OP has every right to feel and write about what he thinks about his purchase of this half-assed console game. I also am very upset at how they treat their pc fans in their forums. Deleting threads and turning a blind eye from their fans that has supported them all these years is totally disgusting! This is why we see alot of people coming in here to vent their anger and frustration about the $50 they have wasted.

For me, I wont buy this game until they offer all the options that we had in 2k4 menus (weaponthrow, custom crosshairs, video options, ext.....) and some serious bot AI fixing and some desparately needed vehicle tweaks!

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING WHEN YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BOUGHT THE GAME?!!!!!

Seriously dude, you only talk negative, and you don't even have it. STFU!!!

@whoever said that ppl were banned from Epic for a reason
Very true, and it would be nice if they would start banning them here too. I mean, why should I continue to visit a forum that is only comprised of posts being negative to a game that I happen to like? At least ban them from the UT3 forum, because none of these douches have contributed anything remotely useful.

NedroidicusPrime
16th Feb 2008, 10:17 PM
Damn....

Actually I love playing online. From what I've read things aren't looking too good. This is the first website I always go to for Unreal related news and I was rather shocked to see the amount of warranted/unwarranted criticism directed at the game.



Heh, well I understand how you can draw that assumption but real life sometimes gets too busy to buy the latest FPS title. I've been playing Unreal since it first came out and was on a dial-up.

If you liked the demo, you will love the game. Don't listen to some of these ppl (especially those who don't even have the game).

*Not many servers to choose from online. - This complaint is semi-invalid simply because the people who say it constantly are typically those who spend their day whining on the forums and trying to ruin a perfectly good game for others. You will never have a problem finding a server to get on. I have tried at all hours of the day, all through the week. It is gradually getting better, and will do so with more patches/bonus packs.

The game is beautiful, and even though the menu system is annoying, you can still get the job done (i.e. playing a match).

DocB
17th Feb 2008, 12:01 AM
Eh ..well I was thinking about finally picking up UT3 today but after reading this thread.

Can any seasoned vets gimme a run-down on this? Is it really THAT bad?? I thought the demo was decent, for what it's worth but damn this thread/novel makes me wonder if this game has flopped already?I've been playing UT pretty much forever. Have all of the UTs (and some x 2). I have an AMD 2.2 single core, Gig of RAM, an ATI (pre AMD) x850 (AGP) and play on a 1920x1200 fp. I don't have a top of the line rig so I have had to make some graphic compromises to get playable performance. I gotta say I'm enjoying Warfare more than I enjoyed Onslaught. I can recommend you buy the game without reservation!

I think many of the whiners here are just upset that the once PC only game is now on consoles. All those n00bs... ewwwww. Well TFB boys get over it. Epic is a business and makes products for the markets they see. It is not the end of the world. They also support the products they make and don't leave you blowing in the wind.

fuegerstef
17th Feb 2008, 03:42 AM
...Warfare (its ONS, but with hoverboards, an "Orb" that will instantly capture a node, and sometimes you can do stuff like blow up a barricade.. so ONS really).

A few things need to be added:

Warfare is ONS with:

-totally different gameplay
-totally different vehicle-handling
-totally different infantry/vehicle balance

to summarize:
It is totally different, but shares a few similiarities (like the names for nodes, cores and vehicles)



WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING WHEN YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BOUGHT THE GAME?!!!!!

BECAUSE HE WANTS IT FIXED, SO THAT HE CAN BUY IT. AND HE VOICES WHAT HE WANTS TO HAVE FIXED.

Sir_Brizz
17th Feb 2008, 10:35 AM
How can you know what you want fixed in a game without even playing it?

fuegerstef
17th Feb 2008, 10:55 AM
How can you know what you want fixed in a game without even playing it?

We are talking about this person:


My biggest complaint is the lack of features and options in the UI. No custom xhairs, modifiable bots, weaponthrow, no saved settings, no saved active mutators lists, ext.........

All that can be "read" on this forum or from the demo. :) I cut the quote, in this post he even said that he liked the gameplay.

Grobut
17th Feb 2008, 11:07 AM
A few things need to be added:

Warfare is ONS with:

-totally different gameplay
-totally different vehicle-handling
-totally different infantry/vehicle balance

to summarize:
It is totally different, but shares a few similiarities (like the names for nodes, cores and vehicles)

Its not that different, the gameplay is very similar, only people can get to objectives faster on foot because of the Hoverboard, and defenders have to keep an extra eye out for people carrying the Orb, apart from that though, i dont see any big differences, it is pretty much ONS.

There are a couple of maps where they have spiced it up a bit more though, like the one with the Tank pad, but thouse are very few and far between, most of them are very much like the ONS maps of old (just smaller for the most part).

Honestly, if you have played ONS, you can pick up Warfare and know exactly what to do within a few minutes, the differences are not so big that there is any serious learning curve to speak of (apart from the obvious one of having to learn the layout of the maps).


But we can agree that the vehicals behave differently, they steer in a rather awkward way now, atleast for me, the steering seems like it was intended for the analogue stick on a joypad and is not all that keyboard freindly.
But again, thease new Necris vehicals, its nothing that you wont learn within a few games, its not that big a difference.

They are all minor tweaks to ONS in my eyes, and i really dont see Warfare as anything more than ONS with some more bells and whistles attached.

fuegerstef
17th Feb 2008, 11:51 AM
Honestly, if you have played ONS, you can pick up Warfare and know exactly what to do within a few minutes, the differences are not so big that there is any serious learning curve to speak of (apart from the obvious one of having to learn the layout of the maps).

Well, I played ONS for 4 years (I think the first demo of UT2004 came out around Feb 18th) with the top players in EU. And I picked WAR up very fast (played with those who moved). The resulting gameplay from the changes is IMHO totally different.

Grobut
17th Feb 2008, 12:12 PM
Well, I played ONS for 4 years (I think the first demo of UT2004 came out around Feb 18th) with the top players in EU. And I picked WAR up very fast (played with those who moved). The resulting gameplay from the changes is IMHO totally different.

They are different, there's no denying that, but "totally different" is a streach i feel, at its very core, the gametype is still ONS, the feel has changed a bit due to tweaks, and new elements that have been added to the ONS core, but that core still shines though to such a degree that any ONS player can pick it up and play, with a minor learning curve pertaining to the new additions.

It is a matter of how you classify it though, from my perspective, i do not feel this is a big change for the simple reason that there is little learning curve involved, but if you look at it from a purely gamplay perspective, then yes, there are definately different tactics involved now, so that is a bigger change.

In the end, we both have a point really, so there's not much reason to argue ;)

haslo
17th Feb 2008, 12:25 PM
UT3 Warfare is pretty much the same as BF2142 Titan Mode as well. In both games/modes, people are playing a guy with a gun in first person and have stuff to blow up :)

Mr. Scary
17th Feb 2008, 07:54 PM
I probably should have elaborated a bit on me not buying UT3. At some point, yeah I'll be getting the game. But after my experiences with the following titles:

Quake 4
BF2
BF2142

I've decided to wait out on a game when it's released.

Much like an o/s, I refuse to buy a game the day it comes out. Too many titles are "release now/patch later" and I'm so sick of that "consumer acceptable mentality." I love the UT series. What impressed me about the demo was it felt damn close to UT99.

At some point I'll get the game. Hell if Kalvin976 has it and plays it, the game can't be all that bad. Which is why I was somewhat asking for seasoned veterans to chime in because most of them I've gamed with in UT and they know what I'm looking for vs. some of the new crowd ...and that's not a dig against anyone who's relatively new to Beyond Unreal. I'm glad to see new forum activity from people around here.

So it's all cool. At some point I'm gonna pick it up and smoke everyone's butt in some pick up games and ya'll can hate me then.:D

Sir_Brizz
18th Feb 2008, 12:33 AM
Decide how much you like the demo. If you like it, then it's a good investment.

Taleweaver
18th Feb 2008, 03:42 AM
Epic reads your feedback unless you act like an asshat.
No they don't...or maybe I should say it more sarcastically:
They might read your feedback, but will never consider anything from it, no matter how vital, valid and feasible your suggestions might be.

Back in the demo days, Epic tauted they were going to listen to the community. The community disliked the User Interface. The community offered suggestions. MANY suggestions. Heck, they were more unanimously against the Interface than they were against VCTF&CTF being one gametype or the name UT2007.

And Epic had a sticky thread exactly for that. My reply was on the 18th page. Unlike the majority of the posts, it wasn't something like "redo UWindows!" or "I don't like it".
I realised there wouldn't be enough time & manpower to redo everything so I didn't ask for it. I realised a lot of options were left out, but I knew that would be a heckuvalot of coding too. My suggestions were simple ones, meant to reduce the complexity of the interface. In addition to reasoning about the why I wanted these changes I provided screenshots to illustrate exactly how to things could have been better.
And I wasn't speaking just in my name, then. I had checked on Titan's to gather information, and literally no one could say it weren't changes for the best.

Then the final game came...NOTHING was changed. Even worse: there wasn't even an official word as to why not. I had spent multiple hours on that post because I don't give half-assed feedback. I didn't want a thank you note or credits or something...just the knowledge that Epic would do whatever they could do to give everyone a best first impression of the game.
There wasn't even a word about it. No "we're glad for all the feedback, even though we weren't able to use it all". No "we weren't able to fully implement your desires." or anything else. Just the same lousy interface we were disliking to begin with.

Epic reads our feedback? Am I the only one to see that as bad news? We all know that Epic's forums has so many posts it's VERY easy to miss a couple. If they really read it - like Wartourist says they do - then it means they purposely ignore feedback. That's far worse than not reading it.

Lethargy
18th Feb 2008, 03:49 AM
No they don't...or maybe I should say it more sarcastically:
They might read your feedback, but will never consider anything from it, no matter how vital, valid and feasible your suggestions might be.

Back in the demo days, Epic tauted they were going to listen to the community. The community disliked the User Interface. The community offered suggestions. MANY suggestions. Heck, they were more unanimously against the Interface than they were against VCTF&CTF being one gametype or the name UT2007.

And Epic had a sticky thread exactly for that. My reply was on the 18th page. Unlike the majority of the posts, it wasn't something like "redo UWindows!" or "I don't like it".
I realised there wouldn't be enough time & manpower to redo everything so I didn't ask for it. I realised a lot of options were left out, but I knew that would be a heckuvalot of coding too. My suggestions were simple ones, meant to reduce the complexity of the interface. In addition to reasoning about the why I wanted these changes I provided screenshots to illustrate exactly how to things could have been better.
And I wasn't speaking just in my name, then. I had checked on Titan's to gather information, and literally no one could say it weren't changes for the best.

Then the final game came...NOTHING was changed. Even worse: there wasn't even an official word as to why not. I had spent multiple hours on that post because I don't give half-assed feedback. I didn't want a thank you note or credits or something...just the knowledge that Epic would do whatever they could do to give everyone a best first impression of the game.
There wasn't even a word about it. No "we're glad for all the feedback, even though we weren't able to use it all". No "we weren't able to fully implement your desires." or anything else. Just the same lousy interface we were disliking to begin with.

Epic reads our feedback? Am I the only one to see that as bad news? We all know that Epic's forums has so many posts it's VERY easy to miss a couple. If they really read it - like Wartourist says they do - then it means they purposely ignore feedback. That's far worse than not reading it.

+100

Sir_Brizz
18th Feb 2008, 09:55 AM
No they don't...or maybe I should say it more sarcastically:
They might read your feedback, but will never consider anything from it, no matter how vital, valid and feasible your suggestions might be.
So you didn't read any of the patch changelogs?
Back in the demo days, Epic tauted they were going to listen to the community. The community disliked the User Interface. The community offered suggestions. MANY suggestions. Heck, they were more unanimously against the Interface than they were against VCTF&CTF being one gametype or the name UT2007.
I disagree. Plus, hey did listen, if you read the patch changelogs.
Then the final game came...NOTHING was changed. Even worse: there wasn't even an official word as to why not. I had spent multiple hours on that post because I don't give half-assed feedback. I didn't want a thank you note or credits or something...just the knowledge that Epic would do whatever they could do to give everyone a best first impression of the game.
There wasn't even a word about it. No "we're glad for all the feedback, even though we weren't able to use it all". No "we weren't able to fully implement your desires." or anything else. Just the same lousy interface we were disliking to begin with.
Nothing you suggested? Because things did change. Just not everything.
Epic reads our feedback? Am I the only one to see that as bad news? We all know that Epic's forums has so many posts it's VERY easy to miss a couple. If they really read it - like Wartourist says they do - then it means they purposely ignore feedback. That's far worse than not reading it.
Read the patch changelogs and then tell me they are not listening to feedback. If you think all of those things they have been fixing (and particularly the order in which they have been fixing them) were on their issue lists since before the demo came out, well.... I have no idea what to say in that case.

Wail of Suicide
18th Feb 2008, 09:12 PM
You must be kidding yourself if you think Epic doesn't listen to the feedback. As Brizz says, look at the changelogs.

I know I personally wrote up about 3 pages of feedback (by hand, and I have small print) and who knows how many posts. Funny thing is, after playing the game a lot I felt like a majority of my criticisms and complaints weren't really that valid. Some still are, and it's definitely different from ONS (mostly improved, in my opinion), but more than half were just things I hadn't adjusted to.

Ex. the UT3 Goliath shell's splash radius compared to that of UT2004's Goliath shell. There was lots of criticism here, and yet if anything the Goliath seems more powerful than it used to be -- Possibly because I can't jump around so much and because the maps are smaller, but, yeah. I don't think I'd want to advocate for more splash on that thing at this point.

Buffy
22nd Feb 2008, 11:45 PM
but
in off line game (Instant Action)
still many things missing UT2004 have
main thing I complaint about is
after instal Patch 2 still no "SPECTATE" Option in instant action !
and Bots config option !(no voice no Icons)
anythings change yet
why not to add such small option for UT3 ??
is this hard to do for Epic ?
for me this option is really convenience & fun :(

Coffin_Dancer
23rd Feb 2008, 12:25 AM
huh?

spectate mode works fine for me now, i just have trouble
swirching from one player's view to another's - unless that's what you're referring to?

CD

Buffy
23rd Feb 2008, 03:51 AM
huh?

spectate mode works fine for me now, i just have trouble
swirching from one player's view to another's - unless that's what you're referring to?

CD

but you dont read my comment well
I said
"SPECTATE" Option in instant action !
:o

Trynant
23rd Feb 2008, 05:49 AM
but you dont read my comment well
I said
"SPECTATE" Option in instant action !
:o

+1

Putting a bunch of bots in a map and watching them kill each other was one of my favorite pass times in the previous Unreal games, not having this feature in UT3 is severely disappointing. Especially in the first UT when you could put 100+ bots into one map and watch the carnage ensue :D

EDIT: And also having the game remember which Instant Action mode I chose last (a la UT and 2k4) would rock oh so very much. Same with server browser remembering which gametype I chose to play.

Grobut
23rd Feb 2008, 06:01 AM
Its not just spectating, its anything to do with instant action really, its just been cut to the very bone option wise.

siriusmindfrag
23rd Feb 2008, 01:34 PM
Link Gun Trajectory (visual glitch?) primary fire Appears to be coming from the head of the BOTSplayer vs. the tip of the gun.

*not sure if this is just on my machine or if it has been mentioned before*
running on chocolate-not sure if this is the "bug list".

Anuban
23rd Feb 2008, 02:07 PM
Its not just spectating, its anything to do with instant action really, its just been cut to the very bone option wise.


While this is true it is also true that it is very very easy to set up "spectating" in UT3 for Instant Action. Many of you here know me and you know I don't play online and I used Spectator mode for testing tons of ONS and VCTF maps back in UT2K4. So yeah I was bothered at first as well and then someone told me about the "viewbot" command and bam it was all so clear. I just set up a the F6 key to use as my spectate bot/switch to a different bot key and I was all set.

So just into your Input.ini file and add that line and then when the game starts just press F6 and you will be in spectate mode and then further pressing F6 will switch to the next bot. You can feign death to prevent from being killed but it doesn't matter ... all that happens when your character gets killed is the camera shifts a bit and you just shift it back with your mouse and keep on spectating. It is such a good workaround that I think Epic feels that issue is really not as important as fixing other parts of the game. I have to say on this one I am 100% agreement. This method may not be perfect but it is really good and definitely gets the job done.

Jordan L
23rd Feb 2008, 03:06 PM
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee11/Jordanx133/ScreenShot00002.jpg

Anuban
24th Feb 2008, 03:23 AM
I do miss being able to set up very mismatched teams composed of the same bot like you can do in UT2Kx. What I mean for example is that say you want to play ONS and you feel like really beating up on the bots you could easily have 10 bots on your team and set up the opposing team to have just five. And what was cool was if say you had the terminator model and you wanted to fight a team of terminators you would just drag over the terminator portrait five times and there you have it. Your 11 person squad completely destroying a squad of five of the same bots. This is not possible in UT3 and is among the things I really miss for offline bot play. I just don't understand why they deviated from such a great formula.

faultymoose
25th Feb 2008, 06:36 AM
Worst still, they leave you in the dark, they will not respond to any questions on their official forums, they treat their customers like idiots, locking and deleting threads, even genuine threads for no apparent reason other than the author was not kissing Epics ass. People have posted threads about creating anti cheat measures for the game, this is the user creating it, not asking Epic to do it, the threads are closed without warning or reason. Make a negative comment about the game, Epic or Midway, about how there are few players playing, or comment on the sales figures, the thread will be Locked/Deleted, and in some cases you may even get banned for your trouble. It is truly pathetic some of the threads that are being locked and deleted, they are not doing themselves any favours.

QFMFT.

faultymoose
25th Feb 2008, 06:38 AM
Oh, I just came from the official forums where I posted a thread called: "Hey Mods, how about a suggestion forum?"

The body was not antagonistic. It was just asking for a suggestions forum where we could move all that kind of discussion off general so it wouldn't have to be deleted.

The thread was deleted. I got a negative slash against me from a mod. Awesome.

fuegerstef
25th Feb 2008, 06:51 AM
Oh, I just came from the official forums where I posted a thread called: "Hey Mods, how about a suggestion forum?"

The body was not antagonistic. It was just asking for a suggestions forum where we could move all that kind of discussion off general so it wouldn't have to be deleted.

The thread was deleted. I got a negative slash against me from a mod. Awesome.

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?p=2087949&posted=1#post2087949

faultymoose
25th Feb 2008, 07:00 AM
Yeah sorry double post, I tried to delete this one but couldn't :(

haslo
25th Feb 2008, 07:27 AM
Putting a bunch of bots in a map and watching them kill each other was one of my favorite pass times in the previous Unreal games, not having this feature in UT3 is severely disappointing. Especially in the first UT when you could put 100+ bots into one map and watch the carnage ensue :D

Just choose the max number of bots, type "suicide" in the console, bind "viewbot" to a key and press that repeatedly to switch from bot to bot :) Enjoy!

It's not real spectator mode because you can't fly around freely, and your corpse is lying around somewhere, but it comes close :)

Mircea
25th Feb 2008, 03:37 PM
Already complained in another thread myself... sorry I didn't find this one first. Anyway, its actually very needed, as many UT fans who got UT 3 will very fast need a place to vent many things out :)