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G.Lecter
12th Apr 2006, 07:45 AM
Finally! \o/
This is my third (serious) work. I wanted to work on a relatively simple layout, easy to learn, with not many floors and free of lifttricks, and since I wouldn't be able to make such a thing being good (you know how much Lecter loves overlapping floors and liftjumps... :D), I decided to take as base an awesome CTF layout from my buddy Mercen@ry, instead of starting from scratch. :tup:
It has come along as a weekend-work consisting much in adding 5 meshes today and 5 brushes tomorrow. At this stage, almost every part of the map has been edited, in both visuals and layout, trying to keep the feel of the original CTF-Fragtion, but also applying my own theme and balance ideas. Basically, the changes from the original are the scaled-up side rooms (I think JB needs more fighting space than CTF), and a more detailed and contrastful visual theme.

Map features: (Don't read and play! :p)
- Small-mediumsized map, suitable for 8-10 players.
- Unlike most of JB maps, it has 2 centre rooms. Also 6 more rooms around the main area (2 of them bases), and... ermmm... 2 jails. :D
- 3 paths that split in 5 and merge in 3 again.
- All weapons available, except the Mini, two 50shields, and a DoubleDamage in the middle.
- A lot of doublejumps, it might take a while getting used to them, but they promise interesting kills and Last Second Saves.

Credits: (At the Moment)
- Of course, thanks to Mercen@ry for letting me take his CTF-Fragtion as base... and for making it. :)
- Hourences for all his visual stuff (from Idoma mainly).
- SuperApe for the VariableTimedMover.

Screens: (OMG it's brown!)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3719/jbfragtion18ro.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7121/jbfragtion20ye.jpg
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6299/jbfragtion37pv.jpghttp://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8003/jbfragtion41rz.jpg

Download!
MapRaider (http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=3947)

G.Lecter
12th Apr 2006, 07:46 AM
JB-Fragtion2_RC1
Info lost...

JB-Fragtion-SE_Beta2
Info lost...

JB-Fragtion-SE_Beta1
Suggest and report whatever you want. I'd like especially to know your view on this:
- How's the brightness going? Any area/mesh/surface that looks too bright/dark?
- Any place where you can get stuck? I don't care if they're silly, most of them can be blocked.
- Too much/little health/ammo?
- Suggestions for Emitters and Sounds.
- Do you think it's OK that the Amp spawns at the begining of each round?
- The Escape might have a button outside the jail (and another one inside). Where would you place it, RL room, LinkGun room, or maybe on the pipes over the Amp?
- Do you know about any music track (from UT or whatever) that would fit the map better than Rankin's one?

To-do list:
- Jails, Execution, Arena, Escape route.
- Finishing and testing the botpathing.
- Advanced Optimization.
- Visual details, Lightmaps and Emitters.
- AmbientSound.
- Panorama, LoadingScreen, Screenshots & Map Description.

Have fun! :)

Sjosz
12th Apr 2006, 08:14 AM
Awesome! I was so looking forward to seeing this map! Downloading!:D

Ikkuh
12th Apr 2006, 08:18 AM
- All weapons available, except the Mini


awhhh, no mini? :(

j/k, I will try it in a few hours :)
It looks sweet and it probably will be a lot of fun :D


- A lot of doublejumps, it might a while getting used to them, but they promise interesting kills and Last Second Saves.


ooh, nice

The_Head
12th Apr 2006, 08:41 AM
Looks = Awesome. Only thing I can think of atm is that the gaps in the flooring where the pipes are, imo they would look better with a mesh texture covering them. Always been a fan of this theme too.
One of the best layouts I have seen, very well set out, good range of levels and a nice combination of tricks too do and general coolness.
Took a look in the editor, lots of triggers, havent tried to work out what you have planned, but it looks like it could be a really cool escape / death.

================================

Brightness seems just right

Didn't find anywhere where you can get stuk in my quick look around.

Not sure on ammo, will have to play a full long match or more.

Yeh keep the amp like this

Perhaps put the switch outside the enemies jail?

================================

Really can't wait for this one to be finished.

Sjosz
12th Apr 2006, 02:07 PM
IMO just a tiny tad too brown, perhaps.... but it was fun playing around in here!
I have a few remarks that I've put in a screenshot based feedback file, but I have no access to upload that file until later this evening. It's 7 suggestions.
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those. I'll post the link to the feedback file later tonight (possibly around 11-12 PM, so in 4 hours or so)

Hazel.H
12th Apr 2006, 02:39 PM
Downloading :D Will test it sometime before the weekend with INI if he isn't too busy :p

The_Head
12th Apr 2006, 02:55 PM
IMO just a tiny tad too brown, perhaps.... but it was fun playing around in here!
I have a few remarks that I've put in a screenshot based feedback file, but I have no access to upload that file until later this evening. It's 7 suggestions.
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those. I'll post the link to the feedback file later tonight (possibly around 11-12 PM, so in 4 hours or so)
COuldn't you host them on imageshack / photobucket, or even attach them to the post?


Downloading Will test it sometime before the weekend with INI if he isn't too busy
I'm around most of this week too if you need another tester / temporary server.

Sjosz
12th Apr 2006, 08:25 PM
COuldn't you host them on imageshack / photobucket, or even attach them to the post?

Nope, or I would have done so. The rig I do all my mapping/testing on is a laptop without internet connection, and I wasn't near the laptop at the time of my previous post.
Anyways, here's the feedback file:

http://www.dregsld.com/Sjosz/misc/Fragtion_Feedback.rar

I hope it helps you finish the map!:)

G.Lecter
13th Apr 2006, 06:24 AM
Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming! :tup:

awhhh, no mini? :(Nope, The original CTF-Fragtion had one, but I didn't like much the way it worked on JB, so replaced it with the LightingGun. I started to definitely like the map after this change. :)

Oh, and no GrenadeLauncher mate, sorry... :(
Only thing I can think of atm is that the gaps in the flooring where the pipes are, imo they would look better with a mesh texture covering them.Yeah, that was another thing I was going to ask but forgot it. :D Do you mean a glass texture/mesh covering all the pipes? I am likely to do this change, if it does not look odd...
Would like to know what does people think about this anyway... :rolleyes:
Took a look in the editor, lots of triggers, havent tried to work out what you have planned, but it looks like it could be a really cool escape / death.Gah, you're too curious! :p A lot of the triggering there is because of a bug in LoopMove movers, they only stop if you trigger them off with another mover. :con: There also are some RandomTriggers so only few of the minecars will be used each execution... ;) Not sure if it will look really cool or not tbh...
Perhaps put the switch outside the enemies jail?Do you mean the escape switch, beside the enemy jaildoor? I think it would be too near the real switch...
A non screenshots remark is that the bots always go the central route into the JB lock rooms, but I see that you're still testing those.They actually take all the paths, although the middle has more priority... I could lower the priorities there...
Anyways, here's the feedback file:D'oh, I always forget fixing the jumpads... Thanks, I'll work on that.
I'm around most of this week too if you need another tester.You also can count on me! :)

Ikkuh
13th Apr 2006, 06:49 AM
heh, fun map. I like it :D
It has a very nice layout imo. Good visuals, and I like the theme :)

I can live with no mini, but no grenade launcher is teh horror! :(
j/k, I guess I'll have to stick with one map only then :) besides, having more grenade maps makes it less fun ;)
I think you did good by replacing the mini with ltg, although I would prefer the mini ofc. But in this case it gives some very interesting situations with the amp, so keep it :D

For some reason, the red team bots refused to get to the switch here. They just walk around the same spot near the switch. But that might be because I didn't play it for too long.

The starting amp is a very nice and drastic flow-changer. It turns the map more offensive, which is good. Get a ltg + amp and you can get 1 or 2 starting kills if you are lucky, and possibly more if you stay alive :D

BTW, can we get another beta-testing day? That was both fun and constructive. I am available this weekend as well mostly. Maybe not for a few hours when I am moving my pc (yes, no more parents peeking if I am doing my homework or not :D. byebye early leaving, hello short nights)

The_Head
13th Apr 2006, 06:53 AM
Yeah, that was another thing I was going to ask but forgot it. :D Do you mean a glass texture/mesh covering all the pipes? I am likely to do this change, if it does not look odd...
yeh a texture like that, mesh would lok best as it fits the theme better.

Also can you make the jail doors open for longer. If you are the opposite side of jail you can't get out when *just* running, its fine if you dodgejump though.

TG|DeadHead
13th Apr 2006, 08:22 AM
First of all I want to say: Great map!

Now the comments:


http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7894/noisyflak9zs.jpg
- It seems like the sound in this part is all wrong. When someone walks over the area, it makes a Rankin-style noise. But it seems to be time-triggered aswell. I would say, remove it all together and make a soundtrigger on some place usefull. This well help the defenders.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3756/soundlessjumppad4av.jpg
- Maybe add some noise to this jumppad. People who use sound benefit from this but its not extremely vital to the map. (I dont know if the other jumppad is silent too, I forgot to check that)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2563/jumppadwith2muchpower6gt.jpg
- Make this jummpad less powerfull. I bumped my head to the ceiling one too many times.


Now something Im not sure of myself:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8586/1stsmall6qt.jpg

- Move the boxes to the other side of the wall.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1444/2ndsmall6xo.jpg

- This will make for some walldodging action. This might help the attack. If combined with a shield jump, things go really fast. Im not sure how this works out tho.


Some others said that there might be too little ammo in the map. I dont agree with them. Its easy to get all the weapons very fast so if you're out of ammo, you can switch guns. There might be too little HP tho. And you mentioned something about escaping the jail. If you do this, make it something very hard. Since escapes dont add to the fun of the opposing team imo :)

- DH

EDIT: I tried the map in instant action with UTcomp on. But it killed me everytime in jail. Have you tried this before?

tarquin
13th Apr 2006, 12:07 PM
Could you check your player starts?
Very soon after the match starts, a blue bot comes right into the red base, on the middle height walkway, way too quickly. There's not even any prisoners to release yet.

The bases are too hard to defend. It took me 7 minutes to get a capture, defending the switch on god mode. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

Putting mesh over the pipes is up to you -- I don't mind either way visually -- but you need blocking volumes in places. I got stuck on the shield's little platform.

Other than that, looks fantastic.

INIQUITOUS
13th Apr 2006, 04:31 PM
me and hazel tested it :D i loved defending this map. There were some error messages about playerstarts 9, 15, 16 and 17 in the log.. anyways Hazel is gonna post about what we found :D

Hazel.H
13th Apr 2006, 05:17 PM
We tested it online today - looks pretty good, and well blocked off (mostly INI proof) :D I noticed you only have 10 playerstarts in the whole map, that's probably what causes the log messages. If you're attacking from the middle route you always have to double jump to get to the switch. I think it needs a small ramp to the raised walkway leading to the lock, further away from the lock near where the 50 shield is.

- How's the brightness going? Any area/mesh/surface that looks too bright/dark?
The lighting is fine, it looks a lot sharper if you change the floor surface lightmaps to 8 or 16 and rebuild with rgb8 :) The map could do with some more team colours particularly around the side routes, I found that quite confusing.

- Any place where you can get stuck? I don't care if they're silly, most of them can be blocked.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1733/fragtion10xu.th.png (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fragtion10xu.png)
You can dodge jump up this ramp next to the wall to get on top of those beams. When you run along the edge of the ramp you stick and your view bounces up and down, which is a bit irritating.

- Do you think it's OK that the Amp spawns at the begining of each round?
It seems ok to me... If you don't like it you could always put a wildcard base there instead with random spawning amp / health

- Suggestions for Emitters and Sounds.
Some dust would be good since it's a mine, and how about an echoing wind sound from those tunnels?
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/543/fragtion25qj.th.png (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fragtion25qj.png)
btw I'm hoping this will make a good escape route :D

I'll take a look at the other things soon... I'm sure there is a nice music track from Unreal 1 or UT99 :)

EDIT: You can translocate in / out of jail, just needs a limtation volume around the door blocking trans disc only :)

tarquin
13th Apr 2006, 05:24 PM
Oh yeah, forgot to say, I can't do the steep ramps. :(
What's the trick?

Hazel.H
13th Apr 2006, 05:33 PM
Oh yeah, forgot to say, I can't do the steep ramps. :(
What's the trick?
Run at the ramp then dodge jump very quickly before you hit it. If you dodge then jump while on the ramp you won't reach the top unless the ramp is small.

Wormbo
13th Apr 2006, 06:17 PM
The best way to get up a dodge-ramp is to start dodging in about the distance you need to reach the highest point of the dodging move. If you time it correctly, you can do the mid-air jump right before you hit the ramp, so you get the best out of the upward motion of the jump and the bounce off the ramp.

G.Lecter
13th Apr 2006, 06:58 PM
Thanks again! :tup:
For some reason, the red team bots refused to get to the switch here.Where have you seen them dancing exactly? Perhaps it has something to do with the difficulty setting? I usually have them on Masterful and I didn't notice any problem...
Also can you make the jail doors open for longer. If you are the opposite side of jail you can't get out when *just* running, its fine if you dodgejump though.The timing of the doors was set up so you can't get out of jail if you're killed right after hitting the switch. I will change it. :)
It seems like the sound in this part is all wrong.I don't understand what you mean here. Anyway that sound and trigger were borrowed from Idoma... :p
Maybe add some noise to this jumppad. / Make this jummpad less powerfull.That will be done for sure. :tup:
Move the boxes to the other side of the wall.Sorry, I can't do that. The crates are blocking a long sightline. Otherwise, you would be able to snipe from the Bio walkway to the 50shield, which is unfair IMO...
There might be too little HP tho.I can add/remove ammopickups if necessary, but I am not too keen on doing so with the healths. I'd like to keep the centre pit with the Amp and 2 healths actually useful. It is anyway a Jailbreak map so you are meant to die ever... :D
And you mentioned something about escaping the jail. If you do this, make it something very hard.If everything goes as planned, the escape will be very easy, but you will be able to use it only once per round. The more jailed players your team has, the higher the probability to escape. The moment to use the escape will be an interesting choice... ;)
Very soon after the match starts, a blue bot comes right into the red base, on the middle height walkway, way too quickly. There's not even any prisoners to release yet.The map is small, so you can run away from the action around the Amp and rush to the switch. Just keep an eye on the side paths... ;)
The bases are too hard to defend. It took me 7 minutes to get a capture, defending the switch on god mode.I hope it's not true... :hmm: I've played lots of different rounds on the map, some of them ended the first wave, other ones lasted more than 5 minutes. Hopefully it will be OK when 2-3 players are defending... But I don't want you to put your tent on the switch! :p Try going out to the middle to see which paths the enemy takes... And use the LightingGun... ;)
I got stuck on the shield's little platform.I am not sure on the place you're talking about here. Can you post a pic please? :rolleyes:
I noticed you only have 10 playerstarts in the whole map, that's probably what causes the log messages.Will add a few more, especially inside the jails.
The map could do with some more team colours particularly around the side routes, I found that quite confusing.There's a team coloured banner inside every room, and half of the crates will be changed to blue. Not sure about dealing with the lighting, I wouldn't like to break the brown coolness... :D
Some dust would be good since it's a mine, and how about an echoing wind sound from those tunnels?Any map where I could borrow them from? I don't know anything about emitters... :D Or just a good tutorial?
Yep, the escape will go through those tunnels. ;)
You can dodge jump up this ramp next to the wall to get on top of those beams.It will be blocked.
You can translocate in / out of jail, just needs a limtation volume around the door blocking trans disc only :)There are LimitationVolumes already. Do they need any special setting?
I can't do the steep ramps. :( What's the trick?What Hazel and Wormbo said. You also can do a walldodge perpendicularly to some of the ramps.

INIQUITOUS
13th Apr 2006, 07:25 PM
quote 11 actually by Hazel :D

set the limitation volume to block the trans disc.

i did see some small mesh alignment issues if you are bothered :D

G.Lecter
13th Apr 2006, 08:14 PM
I did see some small mesh alignment issues if you are bothered :DYes of course! They're very fast and worth to fix. :tup:


I missed this one:
I tried the map in instant action with UTcomp on. But it killed me everytime in jail. Have you tried this before?That's an odd one... :con: Perhaps it has something to do with the PlayerStart error that INI and Hazel reported... The Log file might help here... ;)

INIQUITOUS
13th Apr 2006, 08:51 PM
this is where the lightning gun is i believe, i know i'm very lame at spotting these things hehe. But when you have another version i'll be sure to give it my all now i know the layout more :D

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3552/frag13ea.th.jpg (http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frag13ea.jpg)
just these meshes, it just annoys me that you can see small gaps like that..

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3255/frag26eb.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frag26eb.jpg)
And this is just a shame, dunno what you can do. guess its ok. Shame tho :(

wish i had kept the log, but i've been testing monsters online since then ... i'll get you another log as soon as i can :)

Sjosz
14th Apr 2006, 02:54 AM
Lecter, in CTF-UCMP2-Orcus I installed some triggered emitters that linked to viewshakers, ambient sounds making the sound of a small earthquake, and delayed emitters in the mine ceiling that let dirt particles fall down a little while after the viewshake/sound. Since this is a mine as well, maybe you could somehow integrate it? Just an idea.;)

tarquin
14th Apr 2006, 04:21 AM
I hope it's not true... :hmm: I've played lots of different rounds on the map, some of them ended the first wave, other ones lasted more than 5 minutes. Hopefully it will be OK when 2-3 players are defending... But I don't want you to put your tent on the switch! :p Try going out to the middle to see which paths the enemy takes... And use the LightingGun... ;)

The bots defend very near to the switch: on the shield, or on the high bit, but in the switch room basically. I was just doing what they did... :)
me + 2 bots have a hard time defending. I know I suck but ....

That's the shield I meant btw -- the one near the switch. It has a little platform over the pipe. Can't reproduce the sticking though, so never mind.

Hazel.H
14th Apr 2006, 07:54 AM
That's the shield I meant btw -- the one near the switch. It has a little platform over the pipe. Can't reproduce the sticking though, so never mind.
I'm sure I got stuck on the pipe in the floor around there but also wasn't able to reproduce it.

G.Lecter
14th Apr 2006, 08:25 AM
I can't find the place... There are BlockingVolumes already and the platform does not go over them... I will add some blocking around the crate and hopefully the problem will go if the glass is added (any particular glass texture?).
---
Will fix the mesh misalignment INI, let me know if you find more. And I've got an idea to deal with the 3rd wooden plank.
---
Orcus is an awesome map. :tup: Never noticed the falling particles. They look too big for this map IMO, so if I use them I'd have to edit them first. I like the wood sounds and might borrow some of them though. For the emitter, I like more the falling sand from Thebes, but I'd have to edit it too... (Emitter tutorial please? :o)
---
I might add/move some DefenseScripts out of the base. For some reason the bots are a bit more stupid than usual when they stay on those points, they sometimes even don't react at all. I'll try with SnipingVolumes... :rolleyes:

Hazel.H
14th Apr 2006, 08:39 AM
Orcus is an awesome map. :tup: Never noticed the falling particles. They look too big for this map IMO, so if I use them I'd have to edit them first. I like the wood sounds and might borrow some of them though. For the emitter, I like more the falling sand from Thebes, but I'd have to edit it too... (Emitter tutorial please? :o)
I have this one but it might be a bit basic :D http://www.hazelwhorley.com/tutorials/emitter.html
I don't mind if you copy some of the emitters from JB-Collateral to mess around with :) There are dust particles falling from the open roof areas and some floor-level dust which is affected by players in the jails.

Sjosz
23rd Apr 2006, 12:42 PM
bump?:)

G.Lecter
23rd Apr 2006, 02:44 PM
Being really busy these days, haven't touched it since the release date. I am having a lot of homework and exams next 2 months so don't expect beta2 before June. I'll come across the Decks map and another Alpha layout during this time, and I'd like to keep betatesting the work here and there, you know... ;)

You can give more feedback if you have any... Where would you place some Scripted sounds? :D

G.Lecter
20th Jan 2008, 03:21 PM
[/forum disaster]

Here's the link to the final! :)
JB-Fragtion2 (http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=3947)

tarquin
20th Jan 2008, 03:55 PM
This is a really cool map!
More please!

(and btw, thanks for all the thread tidying! :D )

Alhanalem
21st Jan 2008, 12:11 AM
Necrobump alert!! :D