Superbots= Supercheap bots

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Spiffy935

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Is anyone else out there as upset as I am about the dare I say, "cheating" godlike bots. Seriously, while playing against some godlike bots (not just any bots, but ClanLord, Xan, Malcolm, Brock, and Lauren), I noticed that one of them survived three lightning gun shots (one by me) without possibly having extra armor or health. There is no way I could have survived that. It simply defies the rules of the game since the 70 damage by the LG should have killed him in two hits. Yet, crap like that happened again. Once I was facing another bot that did not die after six hits from a rocket. Granted, he did have 50 armor, but still, I will take 2 splash damages and die. And lest I forget, the bots dodge much more than I have seen anyone online dodge. Once again, according to the rules of the game, it is not possible to dodge twice without having about a second to stop. Therefore, I find most of my kills to be either sniper/LG or shock rifle since there is rarely a time when they don't dodge my flak or RL shots. I really do not mind the autoaim that the bots have, because how else are they supposed to be better with their accuracy. But it is those major things that defy what a person can do that really aggrevates me. While I could win almost every time on inhuman, I find myself striving for luck in order to defeat a pack of godlike bots.The bots should not have to resort to "cheating" in order to win. And the resolutions to this problem are easy to solve: just don't let bots defy the rules of the game that players cannot violate as well. I would hope that Epic takes this unfairness by their doing into account before they release UT2007.
If you have had this problem and would like to voice your complaints (complaints doesn't mean whining about how less-skilled you are) please let your voice be heard. Because as far as I am concerned, Epic has given me a reason to stop playing UT2004 since it's pinnacle of difficulty is too biased in favor of the bots.
 

Nereid

・ ω ・
Apr 15, 2003
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They aren't "cheating".

Spiffy935 said:
I noticed that one of them survived three lightning gun shots (one by me) without possibly having extra armor or health.
There are many ways this could happen. If they just have 100 health, it is possible that the lightning that hit them was bounced lightning that does less damage, or perhaps they were not actually hit three times.

Or you could just not play bots. Or you can learn to defeat them. Stay at a distance to avoid their nonsense flak aim and kill them with lightning/shock/mini. Find out in what situations bots will dodge away from a rocket and move back only to find the rocket in their face. If you play with weaponstay off, keep them away from flak, and encourage them to use rockets (it's the weapon they use most, even though their aim is better with hitscan and flak). Rockets are easier for people to dodge. Learn how to dodge them. Stay at a distance, because if you get too close to them, they'll pull out their flak and you're basically dead. Keep them away from the minigun.

Bots are a lot more stupid than they seem. Exploit their weaknesses.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
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Richmond, VA
Bots are extremely stupid. They're only strength lies in how their aim is handled - they could hit their target every time, but a random fudge factor (the severity of which is based on bot difficulty) throws shots off at random. Thus, they're ridiculously good up close and horrible from far away with all weapons. You will not out-flak a high-level bot in close corridors, nor will you escape their link beams. Ever.

If you want to stop playing UT2004 because of bots... Well, see ya. You could play online instead of bitching about something that doesn't matter.
 

Spiffy935

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Well, after my midnight gaming of UT2004, I did much better than earlier today. Generaly first and second places. I figure I will continue to play against godlike bots as I have a 24Kbps connection as of this moment. However, after this holiday break is over with, I will be back in college and I will probably start playing online more often. The only reasons why I don't play online is the fact that so many servers are overly packed, they have usually the same map, and there is this "delayed" feel to each shot. Online feels a little bit slower, even with no lag, and sometimes throws my game off. This really is not a complaint, just a preference to play against bots.

Oh, and one last thing. While you may think that what I said about the bot ai is just me bitching and it might not matter, my point is that while bots cannot compare to humans, if somebody does not have the internet connection to play online, and they are stuck with bot matches, then that player should hope that the ai is coded in a fair manner. I prefer the godlike bots to have the accuracy that they do, but they should not be able do that which a person, reguardless of their abilites, cannot do (the dodging and seeming to take less damage stuff). So, if you do play against bots, post if you wish. But as it seems that those of you who prefer online like to bash those who are tired of the bot ai even though they are stuck playing against bots, well, then do not reply as the last thing the community needs is more people bashing because it is easier to do than discuss a topic. Actually, I am tired of my own topic. So, I consider my own topic dead, but hey, if more people would like to talk about their experiences with these godlike bots, then go for it.

Meanwhile, I shall continue playing against bots until I return to that internet connection in my dorm room that I so love.
 

Phopojijo

A Loose Screw
Nov 13, 2005
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Ai cheats -- period. Back in RedAlert I saw bots creating 3 or more tanks at the exact same time. People are smarter than computers, they need to compensate.

And you --don't-- need to play against highest-level bots... but you do.
 

nuttella

Scare
Nov 19, 2004
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Sure they cheat. Their close range accuracy is just stupid, as has been said, and they always know exactly where you are on the map, and they can dodge without any delay. But they don't take less damage or do more damage than you do. Bind a key to "viewbot" and another to "viewself" so you can toggle viewing the bot each time you shoot it, you'll see that you are doing just as much damage as you ought to be. Keep in mind that bots not only know where all the health pickups are but whether there is actually a health pack there, and they will immediately move to the nearest available pickup as soon as you have done significant damage. It's easy to miss. Also keep in mind that very skilled players will get to those health packs even faster than the bots, and they tend to be even harder to kill (for instance, Nereid and Turns2ashes ^^^^ :p. Nereid's weapons also pretty much always do twice the normal damage, and I don't think T2A has any delay before he dodges.)
 
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Turret 49

Doomer at heart
Jun 26, 2004
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Bots also seem to go for you more than each other. I've had 3 or more bots Running in a group chasing me in deathmatch quite a number of times.
 

Taleweaver

Wandering spirit
May 11, 2004
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nuttella said:
...and they always know exactly where you are on the map...
Not really true, but they continually listen to sounds you're making. I agree on the other points, though.

It's not a bad thing: they need to have a way to compensate for their stupidity in other fields (like their urge to follow you around corners).

@Phopojijo: sorry, but just because bots cheat in red alert (which happens to be true) doesn't automatically means that bots in other games cheat as well.
 

nuttella

Scare
Nov 19, 2004
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Taleweaver said:
...and they always know exactly where you are on the map...
Not really true, but they continually listen to sounds you're making. I agree on the other points, though.

It's not a bad thing: they need to have a way to compensate for their stupidity in other fields (like their urge to follow you around corners).

Mmmmm, I'm not sure they detect sounds at all. If you watch them with showAI, they will acquire a course to target which locates their enemy precisely. They may not always know where you are, but once they have decided you are their enemy, they will know your position. Notice how it is impossible to sneak up on a bot in a turret or tank that has seen you. You can run half way across the map, come around a hill from the opposite direction, and as soon as they have line of site, tank shell in the face. Doesn't seem based on sound unless it's some serious rolloff hax.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
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Richmond, VA
Nah, they just check for line of sight. Of course, their field of view is huge compared to a person's; imagine a hemisphere in the direction they face, whereas we basically have a small cone. Sounds may make them turn around to face certain directions, but I'm pretty positive they don't use them to know where you are and only for target acquisition. And I believe they preference human players and low-health players/bots over others. This could be why when you play FFA the bots love to gang up on you. Even if there's an easy kill bot opponent right next to them, both will turn to attack you. Wish I could magically know everyone's health level. :rolleyes:

It's stupid, honestly. I hate playing with bots. I don't even play on Godlike because it does you no good. Masterful seems to be a good balance between retarded bot che4ts and stupidity, but even then their ridiculous flak skills and link beam h4x annoy the hell out of me. Besides, playing with bots makes you play poorly with human players. Moving in the same manner you do to escape a bot's fire will usually result in your death many, many times online. I'm sure this is [one of the reasons] why I suck so much against higher-level human opponents. Dan's told me my movement is bad, and I believe it's because over time I've had a long history of playing DM with bots. Well, not really long... I started late in UT2003 and I've only played UT2004 online for something like 15 months.
 

nuttella

Scare
Nov 19, 2004
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Playing bots you learn not to move until fired at, since they will precisely lead their projectiles to any move you make, even if they only have .0001 seconds to react.
 

Spiffy935

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Inhuman seems to be the perfect balance for me. But on inhuman, they are not quite as tactical (if you consider bots to be tactical at all), thus, they have become much too easy. I have noticed that there is rarely an occasion that I can use a RL or a Flak to get the job done without getting wasted in the process or dying as they kill me at the same time I kill them. At least I am gaining accuracy. Still...I am crossing my fingers that Epic doesn't do the same thing with the bot AI as they have for UT2004.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
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Richmond, VA
You just contradicted yourself completely. How is there a balance if you never get kills with projectiles?

Shooting bots with hitscan is like shooting fish in a barrel. People do not move like that at all and are harder to hit, sometimes much harder, and that's just assuming all variables like ping and whatnot are nonconsequential. Well, at least the ones who half know what they're doing and don't bunny hop into battle are harder to hit... If you stay far away and peg bots with hitscan the entire round you should have no troubles at all winning any match.

There are no tactics involved as far as bots are concerned. They want stuff and they will go after stuff until they see someone to shoot. That's really all there is behind their "tactics" as far as FFA DM is concerned.
 

Spiffy935

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
40
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OOPS. I forgot to mention that it is the godlike bots that I rarely kill with a RL or Flak. Inhuman isn't as difficult to kill them with the RL or Flak. The problem with relying on the hitscan weapons is that it is not always easy to get to a hitscan weapon and you are stuck with what you have until you get your hand on one. After that, killing is a little easier on godlike. I find that players online are actually much easier to kill with hitscan weapons since they don't move as much as a uber dodgey Xan. And yes, I agree that bots don't have real tactics, but they do have more method behind their actions.
 

T2A`

I'm dead.
Jan 10, 2004
8,752
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Richmond, VA
Well, I'm not going to post anymore in this thread. Everything I say you insist the opposite, so... whatever. No way I could have any idea what I'm talking about.
 

nuttella

Scare
Nov 19, 2004
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Oh I never play FFA with bots anymore. Their ability to dodge projectiles shot from any angle due to their 360' FOV makes it too hard to keep up. Unless I turn the game speed down to 50%. That can be fun sometimes.