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Hazel.H
19th Dec 2005, 08:27 AM
Finally the holidays are here :) so I installed Maya this weekend and got to work on a new layout. I'm looking for some feedback on this alpha layout. There's no visuals or botpathing yet - only temporary lighting & textures, bsp, and weapon placement.

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Some screenshots of the layout

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Here's my first attempt in Maya... don't laugh :D

I already have an idea of what I'm doing for visuals and music.

In particular I'm not sure what to do with the lowest walkway out of the base (where the minigun is). I want it to be a difficult route to take but the opposite walkway is just out of reach to get out of the base, and needs a very delayed jump to get in. I was thinking maybe extend the walkway or make a jump pad to the upper level. There will be a ctf conversion too, as usual ;) Is the name ok?

Download: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/JB-Collateral-Alpha1[Layout].zip

Any feedback much appreciated ;)

EDIT: Latest Version - jb-collateral-beta2.zip (http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/jb-collateral-beta2.zip)

Kantham
19th Dec 2005, 08:39 AM
First maya attempt is nice (i swear i do not laughed.). If you want a tip, use the smoothing group (i would use the maximum for this object)

Keep up the good work, hazel

tarquin
19th Dec 2005, 09:26 AM
First attempt in Maya... very impressive, but what is it? :con:

Good name :)

The_Head
19th Dec 2005, 11:11 AM
Map layout is looking cool aswell.
Are you going to stick with a theme to continue on with what you have so far. Can't think of any maps for jailbreak with a stone built theme. Some sort of castle would be awesome.

Aersik
19th Dec 2005, 01:04 PM
/me likeys. Haven't seen a castle floating in space since Orion's Barricade. And that's a bad thing. Though if I'm playing on it it might as well be a bouncy castle :)
In particular I'm not sure what to do with the lowest walkway out of the base (where the minigun is). I want it to be a difficult route to take but the opposite walkway is just out of reach to get out of the base, and needs a very delayed jump to get in. I was thinking maybe extend the walkway or make a jump pad to the upper level.
I'm not entirely sure if you mean minigun->flak or flak->minigun there, because both routes are very similar in length, and both are a bit tricky. Flak->minigun is the easier though, as the flak platform is higher than the minigun platform. At the moment, the safest way to do mini->flak is to shield dodge it, which costs you health. Easiest was to make them equal would be to make the platforms the same height, but if you want it to be difficult it's probably best to leave it as it is.

I wouldn't be averse to adding a jumppad though. It'd probably let me get on the roof easier :D

Hazel.H
19th Dec 2005, 01:43 PM
First attempt in Maya... very impressive, but what is it? :con:

Something similar to the kind of meshes I want to make for the map. Don't know how to explain the theme, it isn't a floating castle in space anyway :lol: I'll probably put some terrain around the base of the buildings. The textures are only temporary.

Kantham
19th Dec 2005, 03:50 PM
It looked like a kind of flower. Metal flower....

Map layout is looking cool aswell.
Are you going to stick with a theme to continue on with what you have so far. Can't think of any maps for jailbreak with a stone built theme. Some sort of castle would be awesome.


Soon maybe!

G.Lecter
20th Dec 2005, 12:47 PM
Glad you see you are back, and learning Maya! :)

The current layout reminds me Gravity a little, just try to add more variation:
- The base needs a better way to move through, rather than that 'spiral' walkway...
- The liftjump to the diagonal walkway is not very reliable, if you fail, you die... isn't that too much?
- It would be cool if you could walldodge from the ShockRifle platform to the diagonal ramp with vials...
- Minigun platform feels like a deadend.
- The Pit in the middle of the room with the Keg is not too good IMO. You will find people that will love it, but also people that won't like it at all... Why don't you try something different? :rolleyes:
- The Keg should be replaced by the 100shield, it's a bit easier to kill the one that takes it...
- Healths should be out of the base IMO, and not down a ramp if possible... :p (never liked pickups in corners...).
- 50shield placement... Uhm, the way it's now... no... but the layout still can change...
- More ways to go to higher floors are needed.

I think that's enough for this alpha... :D Adding the jails and bot support will help you (and us ;)) to see what's going well and what needs changes... Can't wait for next Alpha... :tup:

Vatcilli zeitchef
22nd Dec 2005, 07:18 AM
Alpha? did i miss anything? I thought it was just a layout demonstration.:eek:

Hazel.H
23rd Dec 2005, 11:57 PM
Thanks :) will post a new alpha soon. Just a bit busy with xmas and stuff :rolleyes:

Hazel.H
26th Dec 2005, 09:33 PM
Here is the latest version:
http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/JB-Collateral-Alpha2[Layout].zip

The map has basic botpathing, jails & locks, and some changes G.Lecter and Aersik suggested :) There are teleporters that "catch" you if you fall at certain points, like the lift jump and the flak > minigun jump (these will be marked with some kind of visual effects). I added a pillar at the middle because I wasn't happy with the way you could see so far across the map into the other base.

You might notice players can get shot off the edges of the map easily, especially at the jail exits - I have some ideas to stop this but will have to make meshes for it ;)

The_Head
28th Dec 2005, 07:08 AM
Checked it out. I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with this.

I don't like the idea of the teleporters for people who can't manage the flakminigun jump etc.
Also I can't find the problematic lift jump :s

Also the window behind the switchs, at the moment I am presuming you will put an obvious window there? I would like it to be left pretty much as is but without the blocking volume. Could make for some good last second saves hitting people through the gap :)

G.Lecter
28th Dec 2005, 01:00 PM
Heh, that lift in the base reminds me a JB Alpha-layout I've been working on! :D
- I agree, the teleporters don't make much sense, they will be more an exploitable thing than a way to help, the liftjump is easy to do now... I don't care having teleporters at the bottom, as long as all them are linked to Jails! (You can use the TeamSpecificTeleporters for that... ;))
- The Flak -> Minigun walldodge is impossible for me... :(
- I don't like much the place where the LinkGuns are, maybe the map would be better with them removed... I'd rather the RocketLauncher somewhere in the low floor (modify the pillar in the middle and place it there?), and leave the current RL place for a major powerup. The distance between the second and third floor in the centre room is too short btw...
- I think the distance between the base and the centre room should be a little larger. That would make the 'bridges' from room to room more risky and interesting... :rolleyes:
- What about adding some jumpads, to get rid of the Minigun deadend for instance?
- And yes, do something with that Blocking behind the switches. :) I don't know a good way to do it, but I'd like to see another path going there...
Keep up the good work! :)

Aersik
28th Dec 2005, 03:55 PM
Not too keen on the changes from alpha1 personally. Partly because you managed to remove the only way I had of getting to the roof, involving buckets of goo and shield jumping :(.

The lift in the switch room I really don't like. It's just too close to the switch for my liking, and makes the slope next it it practically redundant. I'm not too keen on the teleporters either.

The lifts in the base and near the shock rifle can both be used to get onto the roof very easily, particularly the one in the switch room (see the first demo).

- The Flak -> Minigun walldodge is impossible for me...
Demo #2 shows all the simple (at least I think they are :D) ways across. For the walldodges and the dodgejump, you might want to turn the volume up and listen to the grunts for an idea of the timing involved. You have a fairly generous window to do the double jump, about 0.2 seconds I think. You'll be wanting to press jump somewhere near the end of that window to make it over. As for the weapon jumps, just look down, fire and dodge at the same time. Using the shock core is probably the easiest out of them, but the shield does less damage. The shield also responds to the direction of fire better than the other weapons, so firing it behind you will propel you forwards with much greater effect than firing straight down.

Hazel.H
30th Dec 2005, 02:59 PM
I know this is a lot of alpha versions but I want to get the layout just right before the visuals :) I changed the layout of the bases completely in this version, added a skybox, zones, basic textures and changed some of the weapon placement. There will be doors (movers) in the doorways leading from the bases to the middle area. Lighting is temporary.

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No blocking volumes yet, so Aersik can camp to his heart's content :D I can make the flak > mini jump easily, but the other one is much harder (shield jump, jump, walldodge). Anyway I added a jump pad there to get to the upper level ;) Also removed the teleporters, so watch out :P

Demo #2 shows all the simple (at least I think they are :D) ways across.
P.S: Demo? did you forget to attach something? :lol:

Alpha 3 Download: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/JB-Collateral-Alpha3.zip

Aersik
30th Dec 2005, 03:42 PM
Fixed.

I accidentally hit the back button while writing that post...and forgot to check the demos were still attached :o. Thrown in some fun on Alpha1 too :D.

Hazel.H
30th Dec 2005, 08:06 PM
Showoff :D thanks for the demos. I don't think I would try a flak-jump-walldodge online tho ;) Should be a couple more jumps for you outside the lock area now, one to go up and one down.

The_Head
30th Dec 2005, 09:43 PM
Adjusted Layout is great.

Please Bring back the old castle style textures. They would look ace, whilst at the moment this looks like it is going to be quite similar to your last 2 maps.

G.Lecter
1st Jan 2006, 09:27 AM
Skybox owns! Love those flying bits... :D The new base layout is definitely better, more innovative...
A few points on gameplay:
- Having the ShockRifle (and the Minigun) beside the jaildoor will make of the map a combo fight IMO... The Shock should be where the Flak is now... Not sure if the Flak beside the jails would work...
- The Minigun platform still is not of my liking. Still feels like a deadend and I don't see any interesting use for it... Another attacking path should go there (shield jumps are not valid for me... :p)
- Not sure about the lifts in the centre room... The liftjump you do is way too strong, and I can't see those lifts looking realistic in the future... Now that the map has jumpads... Those lifts could be replaced by pads to the 50shield (jumpads to powerups are fun! :D).
- The middle promises great spam fests the way it's now... I am not talking about the long sightline, just that the low floor is way too open. IMO removing the pillar in the middle was not a good move; there should be a sort of structure there, blocking the sightline from base to base, and holding the RocketLauncher in the middle...
- The highest path is the shortest way to attack the bases... IMO way too short against the other paths... I constantly feel doing the liftjump before entering the enemy base... The liftjump, however has an awesome defending function: Player1 is in the low floor in the base, going towards the jumpad; Player2 sees him but it's too far from the switch: The liftjump is necessary if Player2 wants to counter Player1 on time...

Good luck! And please don't use those bright trims! :D

Hazel.H
1st Jan 2006, 11:30 AM
Thanks again G.Lecter :)

I think I'll keep the lift jumps the way they are in the middle :p but a door out of the middle at each side, so defenders can hear when there's an attacker more easily.

I'm putting a kind of shield system around the jail exit walkway, to stop players getting shot off the edge with the shock rifle after they get out. Will think about the weapon placement more though ;)

Aersik
2nd Jan 2006, 05:45 PM
Like this one a lot :). The outside lift can still be used to get on the roof, and I think I can get up there using the jumppad near the minigun and a shock combo, but I'm too lazy to get it perfect at the moment :o. Incidentally, the lifts in the centre room are powerful enough to reach a third level, though I can't think of any decent way of implementing one, so, umm....ignore that.

I think the little yellow flying bits look a bit odd, mainly because it looks like people in flying cars have their headlights on while its still rather light. Night would make more sense for that. And I still think a floating castle would be cool :D.

The_Head
3rd Jan 2006, 06:22 AM
I want a floating castle too. :(

Agreed on the point about the flashes in the sky..... atm they are just plain weird

Hazel.H
3rd Jan 2006, 10:16 AM
Ok then you win, I will make it more floating castle-ish :p :D

I've found some textures I like. I really didn't like the albatross textures or the base texture that was on the walls. Here are some screens of the visuals in progress ;)

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The_Head
3rd Jan 2006, 03:00 PM
In that third pic the texture will look a lot better lined up with the bridge rather than at a slight angle.

Hazel.H
5th Jan 2006, 05:31 PM
I have exams next week :( so here is another alpha. Nothing is really "finished", just progressing :D - I started to get the meshes and lighting in. Moved the shock rifle to the flak cannon, flak cannon to the minigun, removed the minigun altogether and placed a bio rifle near the jail exit. I hope it's a bit less spammy now ;)

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http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/jb-collateral-alpha4.zip

EDIT: oops! forgot to mention it has custom music now

The_Head
7th Jan 2006, 05:48 AM
Wow nice progress in visuals.

Looking very cool, love the theme so far.
The music is excellent.

I presume you know that the custom flower-like meshs have no collision.
I like the door movers they look good, Think they need more of a door frame around them.


ps what exams you got?
I got 6 over the next 2 weeks

L4dy 4bys
8th Jan 2006, 04:55 AM
Looks nice :) Too bad my computer can't run ut2k4...
I'll try it when I'm at Vat's place this afternoon ;)

G.Lecter
14th Jan 2006, 07:25 AM
Nice, nice! :) Where have you learnt to make such cool emitters? :tup:
- The grey shiny texture the 'flower' meshes are using doesn't look very nice for me, try to use any greenish one, like the texture used for the plants in Desolation...
- I love how the doors work, but having them only in some places is quite pointless. Either add them at every doorway, or remove them... I'd say remove, I like how the sightlines work now... And a floating building open to the sky with small doors does nt make much sense for me...
- The LightingGun platform doesn't promise a very nice look... :hmm: And the low floor in the centre building looks too flat (needs a kind of stairs as is was done in the base...)
- Lift speed needs to be toned down in all the lifts, the liftjumps are way too strong. The bots always fail when they try to do them... :p
- Try to make the walldodge BioRifle->Walkway easier. Yeah, it's possible to do as it's now, but you have to be too careful, and if you fail you die, which is unfair IMO...
- The big 'flower' over the jails could be a escape route: It periodically would become a teleporter (a stronger emitter would indicate that), which would be taken by making a ladder. If shield jumping is an exploit, you could add a watervolume on the floor. I think that stops any shield jump...

Hazel.H
27th Jan 2006, 06:11 PM
Sorry for the lack of updates ;) I've been busy working on the map this week, here's the beta version for you:
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http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/jb-collateral-beta1.zip

Known issues so far...
- Pathing problem (if you enable translocators) where bots get stuck translocating from the middle of the base to the lock
- No panorama / loading screen / description
- The upper door from the middle to the red base sometimes gets stuck open (no idea what causes this)
- Screenshots aren't great :p
- A minor zone portal error (thanks INI ;))

EDIT: latest version - http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showpost.php?p=1997110&postcount=36

G.Lecter
28th Jan 2006, 07:29 AM
- Looks good. I still don't like the LightingGun platform and those doors only at some places... The lighting on the doors sucks :p, once I heard Sjosz something about using SpecialLit on movers to make them look much better, have a look to his DOM-DMP-Dissipate... ;)
- I like the layout in the arena, but having all the weapons just beside the PlayerStart does not make the best of it, right now it's just a race for the Shield. I think it might be better having only 3 weps, one beside each the PlayerStart, the Shock inside on the high floor, and another one.. I don't know where... 2 healthpacks outside, one at each corner... that might work well.
- The bots still fail when they try to liftjump at every lift. This might fix it:
· Move the LiftCenter actors nearer the lift edges.
· Add a small DelayTime to the lifts, hardly noticeable (like .075) The bots seem to liftjump much better if they are not moving when the lift starts going up... :D
- Don't forget putting the JailCameras in order.
- For the Translocator bug, try setting a higher value in JumpSpot->TranslocZOffset...
- Found a BSP error:

L4dy 4bys
28th Jan 2006, 11:02 AM
I wanna try.. I need a better laptop :(

Hazel.H
28th Jan 2006, 12:16 PM
Thanks Lecter ;)

I have already used special lit on the doorways, but they still don't light well and if I remove it they go very bright. Strange the bots always make the lift jumps when I tested it :confused: which difficulty did you test them at?

What do you think would make the lightning gun platform look better / what isn't good about it?

Might change the arena too :) nice suggestions, I wanted it to feel kinda like TAM but maybe that isn't going to work :p I was thinking of changing it to something a bit like dm-healpod from Unreal and UT99

Vatcilli zeitchef
28th Jan 2006, 02:37 PM
I wanted it to feel kinda like TAM but maybe that isn't going to work :p
Ohh noooes please don't :lol:
I was thinking of changing it to something a bit like dm-healpod from Unreal and UT99
And 2k4 :p
http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=7612

Anyways I like the new texturing ;).
The bots work fine here too exept they still too often follow a straight line to the enemy base. But hey it's a beta, the particle effect seems a bit odd... looks more like some kind of space battle, but has some interresting effect too. :D

I'd like to try this one online :)

G.Lecter
28th Jan 2006, 04:20 PM
Strange the bots always make the lift jumps when I tested it :confused: which difficulty did you test them at?I usually play Masterful so I can frag them quite easily in unknown maps... ;)
What do you think would make the lightning gun platform look better / what isn't good about it?Ehmm... I don't know... It looks like it's floating, without any kind of support, and I don't like that it becomes diagonal just beside the doors... :rolleyes:

Forgot saying:
- This is much a personal dislike... Can you move the RL and RLammo a bit farther from the walls? :D
- The buildings don't really look like they're floating, It might be cool having some kind of 'boost' emitters bellow each structure...

tarquin
2nd Feb 2006, 09:45 AM
Great map Hazel :)

Just some tiny things:
When I look up close the the doors, the small top surface has ugly texturing.
Looking at the doors from further away, the way the texture is the same on each bar looks a bit like it's just bad texture repeating at first. Do you think it's worth creating a few texture modifiers so the different meshes can have a slightly differerent variation of the same texture -- just panned along a bit.
The lifts in the central area could do with staying up a tiny bit longer. If I get on them at the far end I don't have time to get off them at the top.

Hazel.H
8th Feb 2006, 08:24 PM
Here's beta 2 :)
jb-collateral-beta2.zip (http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/jb-collateral-beta2.zip)

Changes:
- Jail monitors
- Minor visual and lighting fixes / additions
- Added a panorama, description, and loading screen
- Fixed the lift jumps for bots
- Added more antiportals
- Fixed the zone portal bug
- Arena weapon placement

I had a few problems with botpathing, so I'd like to know if the bots are still getting stuck ;) I will put some triggered fearspots on the outdoor lifts to stop bots jumping over the edge. Do you think the arena timing is ok?

Edit: Does anyone know how to get LimitationVolumes working online? They work perfectly offline, but online they only block the translocator and not projectiles :(

Vatcilli zeitchef
9th Feb 2006, 10:26 AM
Nice :)
Ill take a good look at it ^^

tarquin
9th Feb 2006, 12:28 PM
New door texturing looks ace, panorama is excellent (nice idea with the arrows showing jumps!).
I managed to find a hiding spot in the arena -- I jumped off onto one of the side towers and there was a ledge. But hiding in the arena is kinda stupid anyway, so don't bother about it :)

The_Head
9th Feb 2006, 01:50 PM
Speechless. Haven't seen this since it was in its alpha stages, busy in reallife recently. But its awesome. Just gave it a 15min whirl and its the most fun I've had in SP on UT2004 for ages.....

Can't think of anything I don't like about it, Bots put up an excellent fight too.

Hazel.H
13th Feb 2006, 04:41 PM
There is a tiny ledge on one side of the tower, for some reason you can stand there even though there's a blocking volume. I fixed it so it damages you if you stand on the ledge. Are there any more bugs? If not I'm ready to release the map.

G.Lecter
14th Feb 2006, 12:23 PM
I haven't found any bug... :) Just a few last-minute things:
- There is no AssaultRiffle Ammo.
- BioRifle beside the jail might need a pickup.
- The wall with the lightholes in the jails looks too dark IMO.
- ArenaMatches should happen a bit more often, I think. Spent half of the match in jail but I never was sent to Arena... :hmm:
- The AssaultPathing is OK when the bots are close to the enemy switch, but at the begining most of them take the ShockRifle path. All the current AssaultPaths would need to be changed to Position=1 and another set of Position=0 APs would be added on the other side... ;)
- When you fall and die, you crash too early at map's lower invisible (FakeBackdrop) surface. I'm not sure if a FallingVolume fixes that...

Hazel.H
16th Feb 2006, 08:16 AM
I've released the map :D just waiting for it to get posted on nalicity. Thanks everyone for your feedback and help testing it ;)

Download: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/downloads/jb-collateral.zip
Screenshots and stuff: http://www.hazelwhorley.com/maps.html

Ikkuh
16th Feb 2006, 08:52 AM
:D yay!
Awesome map :D :)

Hazel.H
16th Feb 2006, 12:13 PM
Nalicity link: http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=9039
Have fun! :)

G.Lecter
16th Feb 2006, 01:59 PM
Nice one. Haven't to say more than I have said already. Posted a comment on NC with a fat score... :tup:

Hazel.H
14th Mar 2006, 03:06 PM
Finally got around to finishing the CTF conversion :D - it's available here: http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=9085

The_Head
14th Mar 2006, 03:15 PM
Nice, I look forward to seeing it getting reviewed on Insite :)

Would be great to see you take part in the JB Mapping Contest (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=170553) (not sure if you have seen this thread) Would be awesome to see your talent applied here.

Tux Android
26th Aug 2012, 10:07 AM
I know that this thread is six years ago, long time to revive this map for sure when the DL link at the first post is dead, need to review more JB maps intended. Well, here goes. ;)

Good small Jailbreak map with greater atmosphere, visuals, details, and layout. Like the custom audio track, custom doors, jump pads with small shock sounds, particles, medium grasses, and lighting bolt. It has good weapon/item placement, notorious floating/electric execution sequence, tricks in the 1on1 arena for those who are in jailed, and usually financed her own skybox as well (like her skyboxes though :o). Good gameplay and the bots are decent.

Three mirrors:
http://ut2004.ut-files.com/index.php?dir=Maps/Jailbreak/&file=jb-collateral.zip
http://www.gamefront.com/files/4771593/jb-collateral.zip (NaliCity over GameFront)
http://www.mapraider.com/maps/?fileid=3625
http://www.revbillyg.corenation.com/ServerFiles/jb-collateral.zip

CTF version of this map:
http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/516081 (working download links (http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/516081-CTF-Collateral?p=30678341#post30678341))