Layout Creation

[J112]

Hi Beyond Unreal ... ers?

Anyway, to business, I've been mapping for 2 and a bit years now and feel I have good operational knowledge of the ed. Theme, texture and model creation are not a problem because in the abcence of anything to work on I have trained in the necessary programs. The only problem that I have is when it comes to creationg a layout for a level. I must have gone nearly a year now without having any project to get my teeth into.

Im finally asking here to see if anyone from the community can give me any guidence towards this topic. I will appreciate any help/tecniques that you can impart to me ;)

[Vincent79]

If you want to learn you may want to go to the UTMP http://www.valde.x10hosting.com/utmp/ Its a mappack that share,helps and learns from each other. Sign up if you are interested.

[J112]

If you want to learn you may want to go to the UTMP http://www.valde.x10hosting.com/utmp/ Its a mappack that share,helps and learns from each other. Sign up if you are interested.
Thanks for the reply but I know how to map I just wanted a few pointers on layout creation ;)

[Klasnic_E]

Yes, you can get help with UTMP, just like Vince said, its a mappack only for helping with problems and helping you become a pro ;) I can help you there with the layout, i'm Hourence on there if you have any questions :) I'll post a layout creation tut for you on there if you want :) just sign up so we can help you out a bit :)

I have tons of layout ideas, if you want some, but i only ask how your going to use it, etc...

[J112]

If it's all the same i'll pass on joining the UTMP thanks, i'm a little busy with other things atm but some tips on layout creation would be good.

[Klasnic_E]

Ok here it goes: To create a layout, first you want to know what type of map it is, say... NightMare type. So you need to draw on a piece of paper what layout would scream Nightmare! After you've done that, you should go to the editor and create your layout, that would make it an alpha, so once your finished with that, you add static meshes to it, start adding ammunition pickups and bonus's to the map, make sure you have a good working skybox if you need one, (the best is Tower Statics ;)) Then start pathing it, and once your finished that optimize it, and put it up as a beta to find bugs and exploits :)

[Hazel.H]

I wouldn't tend to stick to a "theme" - think of a layout and then think about the visuals afterwards ;)

Here are a few pointers:
- The best thing is to draw a top-down or 3d-kinda view on paper first with a rough idea of measurements then make the basic layout in UnrealEd and test it before adding the major visuals.
- Keep it simple, you want to make it complex enough to be interesting but not so complicated that players get lost.
- Use all axes. Don't make a layout in a straight line - go up, down, left and right
- Lifts can break up the flow of the map. This is often a good thing, but use them wisely and make sure you get the mover timing right ;)
- Try and add some trick jump opportunities if you can
- Avoid dead ends unless you're planning to put something there like a high-powered pickup.
- Make more than 2 ways to get in/out of each area, and multiple ways to get to different levels/walkways of the map.
- Take a look at the stock maps and some popular custom maps to see how their layouts are constructed

Hope this helps, good luck with your next map :D

[J112]

Thanks for the help peeps, anyone else care to add any more specific details on how you actually compose your layout, e.g random(ish) subtractions etc.

[G.Lecter]

Hazel has very good points. Here a few more tips... I've never mapped for DM, but playing my favourite maps this is what I think that makes them good... :rolleyes:
- Always keep 3 or more ways to get out of a room, and use all the axis. Maps with a lot of z-levels will flow much better than maps with tons of rooms and only 2 height levels, since you can go up and down much faster than from room to room (you would need liftjumps to go to the highest levels...).
- Keep a good flow in each one of the rooms, but it's not good allowing players to go to every high spot in the room without going out of that room, you may not know what I mean... :hmm:
- Try to involve interesting action around the 3 big powerups, always 3 or more ways to take each one of them (at least one of the ways should be a jumpad/liftjump). However, it's not a good thing making a whole room oriented to one of the powerups since they spawn once every 0.5/1/1.5 minutes.
- Each room should be oriented to one of the weapons (especially Shock/Flak/Rocket): the weapon should be in a low spot, there should be high spots to cover that weapon, and maybe even higher spots to kill weapon-coverers from avobe. LightingGun, LinkGun and Bio would be better in higher levels IMO. Never place the Minigun in an overcrossed place... ;)
- Finally place the healths in the places that are not much interesting, and a few more in some risky places, that depends on your map, though... Vials/Pills on ramps are a good thing because they prevent players from hiding by walking beside the walls. Rows of vials also can give you an idea of where ramps the enemy has taken (especially in 1on1).
- Don't look at stock maps, (apart form Rankin) they suck. :p
Good luck! If you want to release an Alpha layout, I'll gladly test it for you. :)

[Hourences]

Read the basics at

http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/gameplay1.html
http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/gameplay2.html
http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/gameplay3.html


Its never random, theres a logic behind it all


My only tuts also cover parts of it :
http://www.planetunreal.com/phalanx/tut%27s/tutorial_design.htm

Got new gameplay one upcomming but got no idea when I will be able to finish it


Theres no definite way of making it, there is however a perfect logic behind it, but how you create that logic is your prob.
I personally draw absolutely nothing never, I start right away in UED. Whatever works for you you know

[J112]

Thanks for the help G.Lecter and Hourences,

I can't believe I have never seen those gameplay basics on planet unreal, thanks for the links.

[Kyouryuu]

I think we're kinda' in the same boat. I draw things and I haven't had a particularly wonderful idea in a while. I seem to be in a real "doughnut" map state of mind (mmm, doughnuts).

Personally, I think it's very important to document map designs on paper (or scribble it in a paint program) when you have ideas for them. Once you've done so, try to get it into UnrealEd using just BSP. It's very easy on paper to accidentally make things too flat, or (my personal favorite) misjudge distances needed for stairs and ramps. ;) Run around in it, see what it feels like. Does it seem too flat? Does it seem like it takes an eternity to traverse it? UnrealEd makes laying BSP really easy, so there's no excuse for not trying your plan in-editor straight away.

[N°tAdm¡n]

what i do is, subtract a rather large box, subtract a few paths from that box. and before you know it you will have ideas flowing through your head, and you will turn that ugly little box into a good map. you can usually tell if a map is going to play well if you see it and like it in your head, like you can't/dont want to stop thinking about the map untill its finished.

after its all pathed out with BSP add the static meshes to give it a theme. kaboom.

[Kantham]

Here's a tip

Listen to Hourences and Hazel, they know what they are talking about.

Not to mention that G Lecter is a veteran in the community as Map tester. :tup:

[J112]

Once i've got a layout ready to be tested i would greatly appreciate it if G.Lecter would test it. I do have a theme that I am planning to use and have started some concept scetches of the visual aspects so as to keep me on the right track.

Work is dragging me under at the moment though so im not getting any serious time to work on this. The layout is coming to me in bits and pieces and I have started using Alias Scetchbook Pro to scetch out different parts of the layout as they come to me. The layout won't be too complicated because Im not much for those "Where am I" levels. Im currently planning to make this either a 1-on-1 or 3-4 player map. Perhaps even both would work.

I believe the term is "Watch this space"