VCTF: I LIKE IT!

Wardad71 · Dec 15, 2005

Quote by me from another thread:
Watch this : http://roundrockdesign.com/crush/learningtofly.avi (right click to save to desktop). "I think some people who don't like VCTF need to revisit some of the better servers (vanilla servers - no muts) and see that a lot of changes (and good maps are appearing -check out some of Kantham's work)".

RE Manta Runs:
"Manta Runs can be handled with players who know what they are doing. (The thing is to have a proper defense set-up to deal with that potential MR). Between in-game vehicles, the AVRIL, TEAMWORK, and a well placed hitscan shot, manta runs can be dealt with. Warding off a manta run can be very rewarding and fun. They don't ALWAYS work. Please visit or spec our server(s) and you'll see a lot of challenging fun going on with a lot of hardcore UT fans".

Added Note: This Post's Sole Purpose is to develop a NEW interest in VCTF for those who maybe just didn't look very hard at it to begin with. NOT TO HAVE THE HARDCORE ANTI-VCTF people come in and post what they HATE about it! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and your welcome to add what you don't like about vctf...but again that's not what this thread is for.

I have NO QAULMS about anyone's personal preferences. Just trying to have constructive discussions about what can be improved in a particular mode type in UT.

Tenkken · Dec 15, 2005

I think I played with you last night on a VCTF server.

hal · Dec 15, 2005

Yeah, VCTF is pretty fun imo. There are lots of haters, but that's usually because they don't like vehicles anyway or the fact that there just aren't very many decent maps for the gametype.

Renegade Retard · Dec 15, 2005

Wardad71 said:
check out some of Kantham's work)"

Woohoo!!! BUF's own Kantham gets props!

HuggyBear · Dec 15, 2005

Yeah, Kantham makes some highly playable maps!

Welcome Wardad71, and I'm sure I'll see you around the vctf pubs.

[edit] This here's a good demonstration - I've been on Ruff's manta before and he's a hell of a pilot. It's nice to see Flak when she's not on the business end of my manta.

T2A` · Dec 15, 2005

That video is a good demonstration of why I think VCTF is the stupidest pile of crap ever (even more so than ONS). I haven't played it in awhile, so thanks for the reminder.

If you're wondering why I don't like it...

1) I think UT2004's vehakals are very, very boring, and the avril is a worthless turd of a weapon.
2) Manta runs are nothing but an exploit, and I'm guessing it's at least part of the reason VCTF wasn't mapped for officially and was hidden for quite some time.
3) Fragging skill > sitting on a manta with a link gun. Fragging skill doesn't matter in VCTF, and that's both unfortunate and dumb.
4) Manta runs effectively ruin any potential gameplay the gametype might have had. It's analogous to vanilla CTF without the xloc, and it sucks.

Well, that's my spiel. I'm sure everyone either doesn't give a crap or thinks I'm an ass, so I just wasted my time typing that, but they moved my exam back to tomorrow so I have absolutely nothing to do otherwise for the rest of the day.

HuggyBear · Dec 15, 2005

Turns2Ashes said:
2) Manta runs are nothing but an exploit, and I'm guessing it's at least part of the reason VCTF wasn't mapped for officially and was hidden for quite some time.

Yeah, they're about as much an exploit as a shock combo. One used to be able to carry the flag in the gunner seat of a cicada, but they patched that and left manta runs alone. Hmm, maybe it's intentional.

Turns2Ashes said:
3) Fragging skill > sitting on a manta with a link gun. Fragging skill doesn't matter in VCTF, and that's both unfortunate and dumb.

That's just not true. Sitting on a manta with a link may be easy, but a good rider will have that shock rifle out and blast moving targets while flying. Go hang out on Fat Jimmy's for an evening and tell me again how fragging skills aren't important.

Turns2Ashes said:
4) Manta runs effectively ruin any potential gameplay the gametype might have had. It's analogous to vanilla CTF without the xloc, and it sucks.

Manta runs are a part of vctf, just like timing pickups in dm. It changes the gameplay into something you're maybe not familiar with, but it certainly doesn't ruin it. Different != bad.

Turns2Ashes said:
Well, that's my spiel. I'm sure everyone either doesn't give a crap or thinks I'm an ass, so I just wasted my time typing that, but they moved my exam back to tomorrow so I have absolutely nothing to do otherwise for the rest of the day.

I think we're all clear about your hatred of vctf and ons and vehicles. But, thanks for the refresher! :lol:

hal · Dec 15, 2005

Turns2Ashes said:
1) I think UT2004's vehakals are very, very boring, and the avril is a worthless turd of a weapon.
2) Manta runs are nothing but an exploit, and I'm guessing it's at least part of the reason VCTF wasn't mapped for officially and was hidden for quite some time.
3) Fragging skill > sitting on a manta with a link gun. Fragging skill doesn't matter in VCTF, and that's both unfortunate and dumb.
4) Manta runs effectively ruin any potential gameplay the gametype might have had. It's analogous to vanilla CTF without the xloc, and it sucks.

1) I think the UT2004 vehicles were pretty decent, actually. Though there's plenty of opportunity to improve upon them, for sure. The AVRiL is okay. It's decently balanced in that it doesn't pack too much of a punch and it can be shaken by the airborne vehicles and shot down by others.
2) Manta runs are just a fact of the gametype. Hopefully, we'll see that eliminated or balanced in the next game (imo). It has nothing to do with why it wasn't mapped for though. That's mainly because Epic saw the potential for another gametype there, put in the groundwork for it, and allowed it to become official once maps were created - but didn't have time to support it through level of their own.
3) Not every gametype has to be about fragging. But it certainly has its place in the gametype.
4) See 2

HuggyBear · Dec 15, 2005

Running around like a squeeb is boring to me; I live to drive, and while the vehicles may not be perfect, I'm seeing an innate balance in them after playing with them constantly since the day the demo came out. Most problems occur when the map isn't made to support the vehicles, or the placement is wrong, but I don't think the vehicles are to blame. Just as some have developed an affinity for hitscan, others have really put some skill into driving and I'm very pleased that the game can accomodate so many people's tastes in gaming.

Kantham · Dec 15, 2005

Renegade Retard said:
Woohoo!!! BUF's own Kantham gets props!

Actualy, We really enjoy playing vCTF on our clan server (Classic vctf no mutator(s) at all.). I don't think i'm the best but i'd say i did some good work, i think that even some of my work is so anoying for myself after a while. And i start to get pissed of vCTF for many reason, especialy about hellbender turret camping, tank camping, raptor support usage and cover. In vctf, i hardly seen 2 teams fight to hell, there's always one or another that will lose bad. They are always unbalanced no mater who is playing in them.

I always found DM fun, DM involve more skills. But the problem is, that when you play VCTF you have a team, and not everyone can play that good. Whenever i get killed by a tank camping in their base, i almost get mad and i want to leave. I should probably give it a break. I agree with most of T2A points.

To HuggyBear: Sup, it's been a while you don't runned me over with that manta of yours? Probably there's still a remaining piece of ophelia under it

HuggyBear · Dec 15, 2005

Kantham said:
To HuggyBear: Sup, it's been a while you don't runned me over with that manta of yours? Probably there's still a remaining piece of ophelia under it

I've been super busy since July, but I'm finding some time to play again - I'm on the wgs old skool server a lot lately, silly as it is. Track me down man, we've always had ggs.

Tenkken · Dec 15, 2005

-Ruff- is an ok manta pilot.

Yeah, vctf is fun.

dc · Dec 15, 2005

WTF T2A. vCTF is FUN

Wardad71 · Dec 15, 2005

hal said:
Yeah, VCTF is pretty fun imo. There are lots of haters, but that's usually because they don't like vehicles anyway or the fact that there just aren't very many decent maps for the gametype.

I wholeheartedly agree. "To each his own". Personally I'm finding myself liking BR more also. I like to play a game with OBJECTIVES. Not just MINDLESS fragging all the time. DM will sharpen your killing skill, but games like BR, VCTF, and ONS require a TEAM effort. If it's "all about YOU", then stick to the DMs and go play some Quake...DAM is trying to bring out whats good about games like VCTF so that UT is more than just DM. I'm attracted to TEAMPLAY and working together (having fun with your online friends). That's all.

Kantham · Dec 15, 2005

When you have a team and a good challange online VCTF can't be boring. I just hate when vehicles get's too dominant. Manta runs are pretty boring since you do a minimal effort for a big reward. So all i do is putting manta blockers over flag and try to eliminate Manta runs as more as possible on our server. FJ's is a manta run server, we don't like their maps, so we got our corner and still get lots of hits everyday.

Wardad71 · Dec 15, 2005

HuggyBear said:
Yeah, Kantham makes some highly playable maps!

Welcome Wardad71, and I'm sure I'll see you around the vctf pubs.

[edit] This here's a good demonstration - I've been on Ruff's manta before and he's a hell of a pilot. It's nice to see Flak when she's not on the business end of my manta.

Hey Huggy, I just checked out your profile...We have some similarities EG I'm 34 also - (born Jan of 71)....I play UT with 2 of my sons and they BEAT ME almost all the time. Gets frustrating... :lol:

BUT FUN!!!!

P.S. Thanks for the 'welcome'.

HuggyBear · Dec 15, 2005

Haha, kids these days! There are some primo fraggers here, so maybe you'll pick up some tricks and take your boys to school.

We may be older than the mean, but I figure we've been playing video games since many of these kids' parents were teenagers, so the advantage is ours! :lol:

m&ms · Dec 15, 2005

Wardad, you're also showing some heavy bias and misunderstanding of the gametypes you don't like. DM obviously doesn't require teamplay, but TDM sure does. (I assume that "the DMs" includes this). It's all about sticking together, controlling the map, and locking down the enemy. It's certainly not MINDLESS as you put it.

That being said, I like vctf. I have no problem with the maps and I certainly don't think it doesn't require fragging skill. My only problem with the gametype is that it is more heavily ping dependant than mods without vehicles, because the damn things just move so fast. That wouldn't be a problem, but on a centrally located T3 connection I don't ping better than 70 to any regularly populated vctf servers. If there was a nice, populated, and centrally located vctf server I would play.

Wardad71 · Dec 15, 2005

m&ms said:
Wardad, you're also showing some heavy bias and misunderstanding of the gametypes you don't like. DM obviously doesn't require teamplay, but TDM sure does. (I assume that "the DMs" includes this). It's all about sticking together, controlling the map, and locking down the enemy. It's certainly not MINDLESS as you put it.

That being said, I like vctf. I have no problem with the maps and I certainly don't think it doesn't require fragging skill. My only problem with the gametype is that it is more heavily ping dependant than mods without vehicles, because the damn things just move so fast. That wouldn't be a problem, but on a centrally located T3 connection I don't ping better than 70 to any regularly populated vctf servers. If there was a nice, populated, and centrally located vctf server I would play.

Forgive me if you felt any "bias" I love DM/TDM too! (and am working on my fragging skills everyday in DM matches) I like all the modes to some extent and can see the positive in each - if the positive can be brought out with an appropriate map and/or vehicle placement that makes the game mode what it was meant to be. (That's what I like about what Kantham is trying to do with his maps...for the most part he thinks about the gametype and tries to design the map appropriately whether there are vehicles or not) -(We all know about those 'sucky' maps out there...you know who you are!!!) I play assault too! In fact....I've played on all 3 of the actual "decent" assualt maps out there (Joking...a little) Here's my entire argument about any game/gametype in a nutshell: OVERCOMING/BEATING those "OBSTACLES"....Each gametype requires a unique skill 'adjustment'. DM/TDM is mainly about well placed shots to get the kill (and of course watching a teammates back)....and then it's on to the next kill...(Note: DM on sucky maps blows, but a well designed map makes all the difference in 'mindless fragging', or some real fun) BR, ONS, VCTF, CTF - if they are to be any FUN and/or productive - if that word is allowed for a game...REQUIRE use of the old microphone and team communication. "Hey joe, just saw the flag carrier on foot going down that left 'alley'....Okay bob, I'm on it....nevermind he just flaked me in the face!" Or something like that.
P.S. M&M "Amen!" to the ping thing...VCTF map makers need to take some things into consideration to allow best gameplay/optimization.

Wardad71 · Dec 15, 2005

m&ms said:
...That wouldn't be a problem, but on a centrally located T3 connection I don't ping better than 70 to any regularly populated vctf servers. If there was a nice, populated, and centrally located vctf server I would play.

We have had small ping issues on occasion, In fact i was griping about lag the other day, but usually its only on certain maps. Visit our DAM server a few times (don't make any judgements till you've given us a couple of days trial) and see how things are. I'll be looking forward to seeing ya!

VCTF: I LIKE IT!

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