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stephen_wq
3rd Dec 2005, 09:33 PM
No idea what the changes for 1.1 are around this, or i forgot.
The machine gunner should be able to mount or setup on almost anything.
Change the mechanic build/repair to ability 1 and building select to ability 2.
Then, when you are a machine gunner, you press v to setup your machine gun on a tripod, and b to mount it onto a mountable place eg a small metal bracket made for it behind sandbags. This would also work well for the keybind medic healing option i saw somewhere on the boards.
Recoil on the tripod is less that holding it, and on the bracket is is even less, but the bracket/mount is a permanent fixture placed by the map author in stratetic places.
It takes a while to setup the tripod, and slightly less to setup on the mount.

Bots use the machine gun very well. I think its because they constantly put the crosshair in the right place, avoiding the problem humans have with recoil

Please take these ideas intop account, and tell me of the changes in 1.1

heron
4th Dec 2005, 06:16 AM
I like that idea, if it's easily workable. Not enough games have deployable MGs, something which I think is oft overlooked.

Hunz
4th Dec 2005, 09:32 AM
We thought about deployable MGs before, but its not very easy to implement.

Change the mechanic build/repair to ability 1 and building select to ability 2.
I dont understand what you mean by that.

stephen_wq
4th Dec 2005, 11:29 PM
okay, heres an example.
Ability 1 is V
Ability 2 is B
Mechanic:
V - Build/repair turret
B - Select turret
Medic
V - Heal target
B - ?
Machine gunner
V - setup tripod
B - mount

Almost all classes would have an ability, so in the controls, construct turret is renamed to Ability 1 and turret select is renamed to ability 2.

Hunz
5th Dec 2005, 08:00 AM
Makes sense, now. :)

FoxDF
14th Dec 2005, 06:20 PM
I dont know if its only me, but its seems like the assaultrifle is mutch better than the mg, the Ar seems to have nearly the same damage per second, higher accuracy and a higher zoom. The only advantage of the MG seems to be the large magazine, maybe give it a lil more power?

Hunz
15th Dec 2005, 11:42 AM
The machinegun is definately more a defensive weapon. When you use it from a supported position (shooting from a bunker etc.) the recoil is much lower and you can take full advantage of the high damage and big magazine. I personally like the MG more than the AR.

Kharnellius
15th Dec 2005, 12:30 PM
The machinegun is definately more a defensive weapon. When you use it from a supported position (shooting from a bunker etc.) the recoil is much lower and you can take full advantage of the high damage and big magazine. I personally like the MG more than the AR.

Same. :)

FoxDF
15th Dec 2005, 01:23 PM
Okay, just can say that its the first time i play a classes based game/mod were im better with the AR than the MG, somehow ¬¬

okay, just forgott what id say ;P

Kharnellius
15th Dec 2005, 05:20 PM
I use the Mgun to hide around corners that baddies run around and then just pepper the area as they run through. I dont think it was made for longer range like the assualt rifle or sniper rifle. In RL an M60 is used mostly against lightly armored targets like vehicles and firing through the walls of houses etc and are also useful for putting down suppresing fire because of their large magazines. For longer range they normally have to be using a bipod or mounted to a vehicle etc.

Most games assume you can run around and carry this beast of a weapon and fire it with no to little problems of recoil etc. It would take some beefy arms to use this weapon effectively while running etc.

Basically, I am saying I think the weapon has its place. Besides you aren't supposed to make the weapon uber awesome because an Machine Gunner's job is for support AND MANNING THE TURRETS. Don't forget they can do that too. :p

FoxDF
15th Dec 2005, 06:01 PM
Yeah, manning turrets *here come grenade* Wheeeeee :lol:
Yet i didnt see it often that somebody did manned a turret, but okay.

And running around i would do with such a thing, i know that its meand es a support gut, but somehow i can use the ar mutch better as support/defensive weapon as the mg, maybe its just a personal thing.

In RL an M60 is used mostly against lightly armored targets like vehicles and firing through the walls of houses etc

I Know, but atm in DA2 is no wallpiercing or any vehicles.

/me wants a lmg, ar with longer barrel and larger magazine, just like in rl :P

stephen_wq
15th Dec 2005, 08:21 PM
Well that is why, i think it should be able to be mounted. Bunkers dont help that much, as they are always in the most easy place to be shot, eg. top of some stairs meaning grenades in your face all the time.
Setting it up on a tripod would be a good idea, and make it used more, rather than people relying on the AI of turrets.
AR > MG at the moment, unless something changes, i think majority exept bots will choose infantry over machine gunner.
Oh and your also slower, so you may as well give him a reason to be slow, hes holding a tripod with a machine gun.

Cmon, heron speaks the truth:

I like that idea, if it's easily workable. Not enough games have deployable MGs, something which I think is oft overlooked.

Kharnellius
15th Dec 2005, 09:11 PM
Yeah, manning turrets *here come grenade* Wheeeeee :lol:
Yet i didnt see it often that somebody did manned a turret, but okay.

And running around i would do with such a thing, i know that its meand es a support gut, but somehow i can use the ar mutch better as support/defensive weapon as the mg, maybe its just a personal thing.

I Know, but atm in DA2 is no wallpiercing or any vehicles.

/me wants a lmg, ar with longer barrel and larger magazine, just like in rl :P

Well if they fix the turrets to turn faster they will be of more use being manned by a human. Plus, I try to place turrets in towers or places that are hard to nade. Either way, I don't normally shoot with the Machine Gun at range. I hide around corners and cut them down from short to medium range as they rush around.

I guess it's good not everyone prefers them otherwise everyone would use them. So far I have seen people prefer all different classes. This goes to show good balance between classes. Hopefully, the infantry is the most desirable so that they are most common (keeping a good balance).

stephen_wq
18th Dec 2005, 09:32 PM
Yeh, i just played blackgold, being a MG the whole time.
It sucks when you arent behind sandbags, and assult rifle or shotgun can take you down instantly. But i found that standing behind the sandbags is an advantage in aim, but it still would be cool if it could somehow be delployed or mounted. Even better, when deployed, if an ammo box is nearby, your amount left in ammo that isnt in the clip becomes unlimited because you are using an ammo box, it becomes 100/[infinite symbol]. This gives both sides an advantage, you know where the gunner is, and there is an explosive ammo box near by, and the gunner gets better range and unlimited clips.
I i think its a good idea.

Hunz
19th Dec 2005, 03:19 AM
As I said before, we thought about deployable MGs before (and it would be nice), but its not easy to implement.

The ammobox-feed for the mg is an interesting idea - I will think about it a bit further...

Thinking about the gunner and people who like to hack/capture enemy equipment I got the idea not to restrict the use of turrets to the owners team. This would mean that a gunner can use enemy turrets aswell.
I dont like hacking cause it wouldnt fit into the straightforward action style of DA2, but simply manning the turret would be ok since it isnt easy to get to an enemy turret with the slow walking gunner (some emp-assistance would help alot, though).
I think if this is balanced correctly this would add a serious tactical aspect to the gunner-class. Comments appreciated.

stephen_wq
19th Dec 2005, 04:08 AM
How about if you are within a foot of an ammo box, with almost any class (some possibly not, like the RL) You have unlimited bullets in terms of clips, because thats kindof realistic, and unreal at the same time, which makes sense, because ut is unreal, and DA2 is semi real.

CRAP!
i spent 10 min writing an edit, and it tells me im not logged in.
Oh well, ive thought about it, lets bullet point it.

The machine gun placement is a modified DFA turret with a machine gun mesh
It is setup by the v key being held for 2 seconds, then it auto sets up. Process is short with the ide a being a tripod deployed, but use a ghost style build process like the turrets.
No holding down, this would mean a half built machine gun that someone else can man.
z reverses this, if you want to stop.
As soon as it is deployed, it is instantly manned by the deployer
When manning, you cannot leave your gun even for ammo, see below for solution.
Being not able to leave the gun sucks in terms of ammo, so the ammo-feed idea is used. This means mechs must help support players, not just turrets
Ammo boxes are currently limited to two. This is good for balance, meaning only 2 efficient deployments are possible.
To also keep balance, the gunner is in a crouched position behind the gun, meaning he can be grenaded like a normal person, and there is an explosive ammo box nearby.
The above means that you need to choose wisely where to put the gun in terms of being able to see and being killed easily.
The gunners head is slightly visible, but to make it fair that it cant be blown off just by a few pistol shots, damage is reduced, but sniper shots have full effect.
Of course, this means that the other team has to support eachother, and a sniper is a good way to remove a machine gunner.
As the person dying would leave the machine gun free to use in terms of reality, it is in the code "destroyed" and the gun in pulled away by the model of the player that just died. This doesnt have to be shown, but is an explaination, and then its like all your other weapons being dropped and not being able to be picked up.

Is that easy enough? think about it, its not that bad, a few tweaks of the DFA code for 1.1, add in the damage reduction to the head later, and possibly make it unlimited clips until you can get the ammo box idea sorted.
It seems balanced to be, ajustments could be made,and its as simple in terms of code as i can think of.
Please!

Dest
19th Dec 2005, 08:32 AM
We don't have an animator to get a player model mounted to a turret.

Kharnellius
19th Dec 2005, 09:47 AM
The only prob is I often setup behind sandbags and am always adjusting position as I take out attackers. Mounting like this would make you too much of a sitting duck I would think. Neat ideas though I don't know if they fit into how DA2 plays.

I like the unlimited ammo thing though but at the same time its pretty easy to turn to the box and reload and then jump back into the fray so I'm not so sure how necessary it would be. (Just trying to cut down on how much they would have to work on)

Hunz
19th Dec 2005, 10:12 AM
With 'not easy to implement' I mean code. If you give me the code, its in. :P

FoxDF
19th Dec 2005, 12:22 PM
the code wouldnt be the biggest problemm, the mesh/animation would be a bigger problemm.

As code you could make a BiPod Actor, if the Gunner uses this actor his weapon gets removed and a usable weapon gets attached to the bipodactor, if he presses the usebutton again it gets deattachet and he gets a weapon bakc, would look some sort of stupid, but i think it would work since id saw this in a UT99 Map. (was funny to put a minigun on it cuz it gave the weapon unlimeted ammo)

But i dont remeber the Mapname, sry.

stephen_wq
19th Dec 2005, 04:24 PM
Awww crap, i wasted 20min of my life thinking about all that, trying to make it as simple as possible.
Dam it.