This CAN'T be real

[O_DoGG]

Prank caller makes McDonalds manager and her husband strip naked, humiliate, spank and rape 18yo employee (http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1297922&page=1)

Video (work safe/no explicit nudity) (http://rapidshare.de/files/7562576/mcdonalds-stripsearch.wmv)

Now, who's won the stupidity award here? :nag:

Edit: this wouldn't be an isolated case :eek:

[hara]

Now, who's won the stupidity award here? :nag:

That stupid TV-Guy in his suit?

[ant75]

No, i'd say Kentucky's laws :

David Stewart was extradited to Kentucky and charged with solicitation of sodomy :eek:

[mat69]

:eek:
How stupid can you be ...

[geogob]

Not that I have anything against the average fast-food worker, but...

I mean... cmon... in one case he (the fake policeman) even called collect. wtf?

read more:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS01/510090392

[Kitty.cat]

The woman should have pleaded guilty, obviously she was, if she was dumb enough to believe that moron with the calling card.

[geogob]

The woman should have pleaded guilty, obviously she was, if she was dumb enough to believe that moron with the calling card.

Well it depends one what charges she would have to pleaded...

[Harrm]

Hahahahaha lower class.

--Harrm

[StevenGarcia]

omg. I hope those sick ****s go to federal "pound you in the ass" prison. People are ****ing sick.:mad:

[Hadmar]

StevenGarcia']omg. I hope those sick ****s go to federal "pound you in the ass" prison. People are ****ing sick.:mad:Dang, I'm happy I could grab my sunglasses in time. The bright hot burning irony would have made me snowblind in no time.

[Derelan]

Dang, I'm happy I could grab my sunglasses in time. The bright hot burning irony would have made me snowblind in no time.
what ze hell are you talking about?

[Hadmar]

Ze German has ze oppinion zat hoping people get ass raped in prison is sick.

[ant75]

StevenGarcia']omg. I hope those sick ****s go to federal "pound you in the ass" prison.

Talk about "an eye for an eye" in this case... :D

[geogob]

Ze German has ze oppinion zat hoping people get ass raped in prison is sick.

The "pound you in the ass prison" is a reference to Office Space. Hence should not be taken too seriously :lol:

[zeep]

Stupid stupid people believing that caller. I feel sorry for that girl.

The woman should have pleaded guilty, obviously she was, if she was dumb enough to believe that moron with the calling card.
Naive is what she is, not dumb.

[cracwhore]

Manager of a McDonalds at forty-something? Not to mention this whole ordeal?

No - I'd say 'dumb' defines her quite accurately.

[zeep]

Manager of a McDonalds at forty-something? Not to mention this whole ordeal?

No - I'd say 'dumb' defines her quite accurately.
It's the 18yr old i'm referring to. The manager should be ashamed of herself beyond unreal boundaries.

[Kitty.cat]

It's the 18yr old i'm referring to. The manager should be ashamed of herself beyond unreal boundaries.

I'm not calling the poor 18 year old dumb. I'm calling the woman believing a police officer is telling her to do these things dumb. In a rape situation, as it could very well could have been parallel to mentally for the 18 year old, you shut down inside and react strangely. She may not have been able to help it.

[hara]

She may not have been able to help it.

This reminds me of the documentary "Blue Eyed". Jane Elliott experiments with the reaction of people to authorities. It is pretty cruel, but shows how social control works. Worth a look.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115716/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxxPWJsdWUgZXllZHxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8aHRtbD0x;fc=2;ft=20;fm=1

and lots more on google.

[Rostam]

Obedience to Authority and Crimes of Obedience are 2 books everybody should have read. Calling a person dumb for obeying is pretty ignorant, since you have no clue what you would have done in a similar situation. You can claim you do, but you don't. Now that you've heard about this though, things are different. Hopefully anyway. But at the same time, if you ever end up working a hospital and the doctor you know would call up at late night asking you to give a certain amount of insuline to a patient because you forgot to, the chances of you disobeying are slim. Statistics show that just about all nurses in an experiment were prepared to give even a lethal amount of insuline when asked by the doctor on the phone.

But don't mind me. Keep calling other people dumb. In the end, we're all the same.

[Nukeproof]

I remember reading an article recently where somebody looted a bank by claiming (on the phone) he was a secret agent, working on terror defense.

He kept calling a director of a bank urged him to cooperate for national security, etc. and in the end he got away with several million euros without ever legitimating himself personally.

IIRC this took place in France.

I believe, once you have missed the point of revealing your doubts, people seem to stick into it...

[MäxX]

Some ppl always manage to give the word "stupidity" a whole nes dimension

[spm1138]

Clearly you get the brightest and the best working the fast food industry.

[mat69]

I think you're right Rostam! Yet as I've proved it myself, everything that sounds soooo odd that you can't believe it in the first place ,you will build a defense around you (that could never happen to me --> Milgram), but overall you're just a token of the overall game.

PS.: I'm drunk be nice to me! Out!

[Harrm]

No - I'd say 'dumb' defines her quite accurately.

*to Flight of the Valkries music*
Blame the victim! Blame the victim! Blaaaame the viiictiiiiim! Blame the vic-tummm!

Clearly you get the brightest and the best working the fast food industry.

You'd be suprised sometimes. But generally, yep.

--Harrm

PS- Rosdam and Hara are IQ Omega tonight.

[Approx]

The whole time I was reading this, I was thinking of the stories I heard in my psych classes in college detailing studies that tested how far people would go to obey someone that they perceived as having authority.

The details are a bit fuzzy, but it went something like this:

People in lab coats asked each subject to press some buttons on a console and the subject was told that by doing so a person in the next room over would receive an electrical shock. In reality, the person in the other room was just an actor who was signalled whenever the subject pressed a button. Whenever he was signalled, he would scream as if he were in agony.

And despite hearing agonized screams from the next room over, most of the subjects would press the buttons whenever the person in the lab coat told them to. Whenever someone in normal, everyday clothes asked them to to the same, the subjects were more hesitant.

So no, the people invloved in this story, save possibly Nix, aren't stupid, they're human. And unfortunately, that means that they're easy to manipulate. At least the first woman was able to figure it out after she discovered some of the more outrageous things that were being done. Although, that might be because she was able to remove herself from the situation for a little bit. If she had stayed on the phone the whole time under the constant influence of the perceived authority figure, it may have taken her longer to figure things out.

[Harrm]

You're talking about Milgrams' study of obediance, Approx. The only thing was that one of the controls of that experiment was that if the experiment was not performed at a prestigious institution, then it would not have worked. But I guess some peoples' fear of the police is so great they're willing to do anything they are told...

One thing I love about this whole thing, is that the person on the phone took advantage of a critical weakness in corperations today: sameness. Without that element of deindividuation this would have been impossible.

Social terrorism rocks.

--Harrm

[Rostam]

I don't entirely agree, Harrm. The experimentor mentioned that there was no danger, yet 65% STILL gave electric shocks after the 'learner' (the one that received the shocks) went silent - suggesting that he already died but they still went on. Hell, I believe 55% gave electric shocks to the learner by pressing a button on the arm of the learner, even after he 'died'.

There are 6 'powers' to reach obedience. Legite (cops, for instance), informal (the command itself reaches obedience: STOP), expert (see commercials), respect, punishment and reward. After the 'learner' started to scream, I believe the amount of people obeying dropped from 99% to 65%. You could argue that those people obeyed because they really did think it was harmless, but stopped after proved otherwise. What made 65% go on? A question still not answered. It's interesting because after the initial screaming of the 'learner' pretty much nobody stops and is fully obedient up to murder, suggesting that only those moved by the 'expert' form of authority stopped and all others continued. Then there is the stanford prison experiment which shows there isn't even a need for authority, people will act the way they believe they are supposed to act.

But yeah, the Milgram experiment only proves 2 things: obedience is a powerful thing, and people suck. I know some other people prefer to finish the sentence (people suck at predicting human behaviour) but I think this is just as true.

[ecale3]

i wouldn't mind spanking that bitch.

[cracwhore]

*to Flight of the Valkries music*
Blame the victim! Blame the victim! Blaaaame the viiictiiiiim! Blame the vic-tummm!

Wow - I was talking about the 'manager'. You know - the woman that 'forced' the girl to strip because a pretend police officer over the telephone told her to do so. The 'idiot' - if you will.

That's what I get for trusting you to pick up on context clues such as 'Manager' and 'forty-something'. Clearly - you're far too intelligent for your own good.

One thing I love about this whole thing, is that the person on the phone took advantage of a critical weakness in corperations today: sameness. Without that element of deindividuation this would have been impossible.

Grammar, spelling and your ability to make up words aside - I'd say the real problem is - in general - idiocy.

--Harrm

Like that - but on a larger scale.

[Rostam]

Don't have the illusion that you are better than anyone else, cracwhore. Would be a real shame to polute the intelligence you have by thinking like that.

[ant75]

Actually crac, i think deindividuation is a psychological concept. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it's made up.

[OICW]

Haarm; I'm not so sure that particular control that it would have made that much of a difference.

In 1972, at Sydney University (my uni), they ran the Milgram experiment for the last time, since one volunteer after the debriefing was so horrified that he could do such acts to other people that were real to him, he decided to commit suicide. Fortunately for him, he managed to receive counselling before he did it (he was going to jump off the roof of the library).

The people who participated were plain "ordinary" people, many of whom were quite upset afterwards and were greatly relieved to find out that the other person was just an actor. I've seen footage of the 1972 experiment, and one student who delivered the "shock" to the other person who hadn't responded appeared absolutely guilt-racked and frightened. Yet, the power of authority was enough to push him to keep doing it.

I doubt that if it had been done with factory workers or somewhere else, the volunteers would have gone "****, it wasn't for real? **** that, I wish I had killed him!"

[WWE]

hmm why didnt they just hang up?

[ecale3]

because like me they wanted to spank that bitch.

[Harrm]

OICW: It is a well-documented control factor in the Milgram experiment. Visit any place that is authorized to carry APA absracts and read over the documents for Milgrams' experiments, there should be a handful of papers written about the prestigious institution effect on experiments.

It should also be noted that most volunteers for these experiments are mid-level wage earners. In theory low-wage earners should be more suspectible to authority, but I have 0 evidance to back that up.

Also in this thread: Cracwhore also proves that he is a moron by not knowing a damn thing about the theory of deindividuation! Sarcasm is not substitute for not doing your research.

Grammar, spelling and your ability to make up words aside - I'd say the real problem is - in general - idiocy.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/deindividuation.htm
http://www.ex.ac.uk/~tpostmes/deindividuation.html

--Harrm

PS- Also, if you dont like the handle, "cracwhore" doesn't rank up real high up there on creativity. So you sir, can suck my left testicle.

http://forum.teamspeak.org/member.php?u=31492

Haha, AnD yOu SpElLeD iT lIkE tHiS.

[(SDS)benmcl]

When you say bitch are you refering to the 18 year old.

I certainly hope not.

[cracwhore]

Yes, I apologize for using the same nick since I was twelve. There are reasons for the name, which I have described on various occasions.

As for Sociologists creating words. Well, I'll tell you what...

Theoretical 'sciences' don't really get much respect from me. If your terms aren't recognized by my good friend 'Oxford' or 'Webster', then they don't exist. Simple as that.

I'm well aware of this so-called 'word'. I simply think Sociology is bull****. I've taken my fair share of Sociology courses and wasted a pretty penny on all of the text books. I understand that you idiots pronounce Weber's last name as 'Vay-ber'. I get the gist of it. In the end, you're 'studying' what I like to call 'common sense' and yielding no actual results.

One merit of actual sciences is that we learn things and advance as a culture - instead of just inventing new words on the fly to describe everyday occurences that the entire world is quite familiar with.



P.S. Signing your posts still makes you an idiot - even with your ability to fabricate words. See, it's an internet forum. Your name appears above your avatar. This isn't a letter home.

[Derelan]

Crac, you're an *******. I love you.

[Approx]

Yes, I apologize for using the same nick since I was twelve. There are reasons for the name, which I have described on various occasions.

As for Sociologists creating words. Well, I'll tell you what...

Theoretical 'sciences' don't really get much respect from me. If your terms aren't recognized by my good friend 'Oxford' or 'Webster', then they don't exist. Simple as that.

I'm well aware of this so-called 'word'. I simply think Sociology is bull****. I've taken my fair share of Sociology courses and wasted a pretty penny on all of the text books. I understand that you idiots pronounce Weber's last name as 'Vay-ber'. I get the gist of it. In the end, you're 'studying' what I like to call 'common sense' and yielding no actual results.

One merit of actual sciences is that we learn things and advance as a culture - instead of just inventing new words on the fly to describe everyday occurences that the entire world is quite familiar with.



P.S. Signing your posts still makes you an idiot - even with your ability to fabricate words. See, it's an internet forum. Your name appears above your avatar. This isn't a letter home.

Do you feel the same way about psychology? I ask because most of what's been discussed here was covered in my psych classes, not my sociology classes.

[Derelan]

Do you feel the same way about psychology? I ask because most of what's been discussed here was covered in my psych classes, not my sociology classes.
Psychology!

In my eyes, everyone on this forum wants to be a teacher or a guider or a leader or a wise man. But since we're not so good at that, the only way we seem to try to bring other people up to our level is by telling them how and why they are wrong.

This seems to be the way we are trying to teach eachother on this forum:

Positive punishment, the introduction of a negative stimulus, in this case public ridicule.
Negative punishment, the removal of a positive stimulus, in this case popularity and respect.

Here are two ways we can also try, which according to psychological experiments as well as philosophical beliefs, work much better.:

Positive reinforcement: Adding a positive stimulus, such as letting someone know how they are right or how some of their beliefs and values may actually work for them as an individual. Or something more frequently seen here, adding social support or standing by an individual.
Negative reinforcement: Removing a negative stimulus, such as apologising for previous wrongs or isolating an individual from social stress.

The latter two seem to create friends and build strong communities where people can get along, and ultimately, enjoy a good game of INF together.

The first two are very good at... teaching people how to prove eachother wrong, i guess.

[ravens_hawk]

And thus the forums became a first year psych course ;)

[Derelan]

And thus the forums became a first year psych course ;)
We're learning :D

[yurch]

In my eyes, everyone on this forum wants to be a teacherGo to hell. My father was a high school teacher, and instilled the fantastic value of "knowing better than to do that".

[Rostam]

It should also be noted that most volunteers for these experiments are mid-level wage earners. In theory low-wage earners should be more suspectible to authority, but I have 0 evidance to back that up
It will probably remain that way. Things like the stanford prison experiment really should prove that having the brains doesn't matter, nor does our job / class. I think the Milgram experiment perfectly proved that we obey all recognised forms of authority. In other words, we always obey authority, but whether or not we recognise an authority is the real interesting subject I think.

When you say bitch are you refering to the 18 year old.

I certainly hope not.
Ben, somewhere along the line ECale decided to become 'cool'. Ever since he has been behaving like a total ******* (not to mention idiot). I'd say ignore him, he's probably just imitating all his internet idols from other message boards.

[zeep]

Last week a meteor fell out of the sky killing both the girl and the manager. Is it over now?

[Derelan]

Go to hell. My father was a high school teacher, and instilled the fantastic value of "knowing better than to do that".

Sorry, should have worded that differently.

I didnt mean like a classroom style professor or highschool teacher or elementary teacher, i meant everyone knows better than everyone else and they want to make damned sure everyone else understands that.

[-Snakebite-]

This thread is a pretty entertaining read :)

[cracwhore]

Ben, somewhere along the line ECale decided to become 'cool'. Ever since he has been behaving like a total ******* (not to mention idiot). I'd say ignore him, he's probably just imitating all his internet idols from other message boards.

Don't have the illusion that you are better than anyone else, Rostam. Would be a real shame to polute the intelligence you have by thinking like that.

(echo)
(echo)
(echo)

[TheShiningWizard]

Rostam's a dick.

[Rostam]

Great job there crac, you've SO trapped me in my own theorie. I believe we're all the same and we will all behave the same when put in the same situation. That doesn't mean I can't say somebody is behaving like an *******. Take ECale for example, he's probably been visiting some INF-dropout message boards and that combined with some real life mess made him 'cool'. I'm not judging him, since I realise I'd be behaving the same if put in the same situation. Now the problem with your comments is that it has "I think I'm better than you" written all over it. Now since you haven't ever mentioned you believe otherwise, your posts are getting very boring. And the funny is getting repetitive as well.

TSW, shut up and suck.

[Derelan]

Quick, someone post a picture of some cute puppy, forcing a collective sigh!

[Rostam]

Did you know more women than men are prepared to give electric shocks / kill a puppy when ordered to in the same situation as the Milgram experiment? It's also pretty much the only test in which there was a signifant difference between men and women. Strangly though, women were showing extreme signs of stress when fully obedient (thus killing the puppy) but men, even though they would comply less often, barely even showed any signs of empathy. Strange, innit.

Edit: I should add that the puppy was cute and really was receiving electric shocks (so it was in extreme pain).

[Vega-don]

milgram is gangsta

[cracwhore]

Calling somebody 'cool', and '*******' (I'm not sure I know what this means?) and telling people to 'ignore him' isn't judging?

Huh. Well, I'll be...

Here I was, thinking that the terms you had used were describing your opinion...

Boy, do I feel dumb.

Let me start by saying - I'm sorry for making sense. I really am. When I think about it, I should've posted some random philosophical theories (taken completely out of context) instead of explaining my position on the matter at hand.

Now, since you haven't asked me whether or not I believe I'm better than 'x_person' - I can't very well offer you my retort, can I? Instead, you've simply judged my comments and my personality. You've effectively jumped to your own conclusions and formed an opinion. Ergo, you've judged me.

Wait, I mean...

'We're all one. We are all part of the collective unconscious. As such, I can safely assume I would be saying the same things, if I were in your shoes. Come now, brother - let's spread the joy and good news of the Branch Davidians to the world.'

Well, hey - at least we're all one. I feel as if I'm sitting in a philosophy class now. That makes me happy. Thanks.

Next time, I promise I'll just use the philosophy trump card instead. Again, I apologize.

Sepatown!

And yes, Don. Milgram is, indeed, gangsta.

[Rostam]

If calling a black person black is judging, then I guess I've been wrongfully. Otherwise, saying somebody is behaving like an ******* or whatever else, is not judging.

[cracwhore]

No, my friend. Calling a 'black person' 'black' is racism.

[Rostam]

What about zwarte piet? (http://photolog.isafeelin.org/archives/sint-piet.jpg)

[Derelan]

What about zwarte piet? (http://photolog.isafeelin.org/archives/sint-piet.jpg)
I can't decide if thats an incredibly gay black man, or an incredibly black gay man.

[ecale3]

Great job there crac, you've SO trapped me in my own theorie. I believe we're all the same and we will all behave the same when put in the same situation. That doesn't mean I can't say somebody is behaving like an *******. Take ECale for example, he's probably been visiting some INF-dropout message boards and that combined with some real life mess made him 'cool'. I'm not judging him, since I realise I'd be behaving the same if put in the same situation. Now the problem with your comments is that it has "I think I'm better than you" written all over it. Now since you haven't ever mentioned you believe otherwise, your posts are getting very boring. And the funny is getting repetitive as well.

TSW, shut up and suck.

You really should stop making so many assumptions.

[TheShiningWizard]

If you take away Rostam's sanctimony and snap assumptions, you've basically stripped him of his livelihood. :p

[Harrm]

Not to take a shot in-between the whole Rosdam-crac thing, but:

Theoretical 'sciences' don't really get much respect from me. If your terms aren't recognized by my good friend 'Oxford' or 'Webster', then they don't exist. Simple as that.

Okay. Well, how about this. Any idea that you use that isn't in my good friend 'The Bible' simply doesn't exist.

Also crac, you mean discrimination. Racism involves superiority.

--Harrm

EDIT:
milgram is gangsta

I want this on a shirt.

[Harrm]

Sorry for double post, but I missed the cue on this one:

http://www.tuffaboerboels.co.za/2005_0929Image0088.JPG

Awww...

http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/026/765_lab%20puppies%20koppeltje.jpg

AWWWW....

http://www.darwinpress.com/books/Golden%20Retriever%20Puppy%20Handbook%20(163-0)%20(hb)/Puppies%20lined%20up%20in%20a%20cart%20001.jpg

AWWWWWWWWW.


--Happy Harrmmas!