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Enfyrneaux
23rd Oct 2005, 04:16 AM
Get the map here (~7MB). (http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/14615/DA2-Artifice.zip) Please report bugs with screenshots in this thread.

Intelligence has discovered an Alliance harvesting installation in an ancient 'mana' energy crystal mine on Kelson Prime. Deactivate the harvester before the ancient crystals are drained any further.

EDIT - If the mods can change the title of the thread to the subheading title ([DOWNLOAD] DA2-Artifice (Beta)), that would be great!

Screenshots:
Attackers advancing on the mine entrance. (http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/9787/artificeadvance8oq.jpg)
Both sides gun it out at the mine entrance. (http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/314/pagodabattle4qg.jpg)
Defenders welcome Attackers into the mine...with grenades and hot lead :D (http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6585/beauty9vy.jpg)
A trio of snipers defend the final objective. (http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/3371/snipersfinal4ti.jpg)
The final objective...deactivate the Mana Harvester. (http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6369/finalobjective5kf.jpg)

Hunz
23rd Oct 2005, 07:40 AM
Nice, a subterranean theme!
...but change mana to energy (if possible) - this would fit more into DA2.

Let us test it so we can consider packing it into 1.1. :)

DA|aBsOlUt
23rd Oct 2005, 10:35 AM
Pretty cool looking

Enfyrneaux
23rd Oct 2005, 12:36 PM
Nice, a subterranean theme!
...but change mana to energy (if possible) - this would fit more into DA2.
I used the term "mana" in quotes because the mine is very ancient, and that is what the builders of the mine called the crystals.

The--Grim--Reaper
23rd Oct 2005, 10:06 PM
I love it, as long as its a DA2 map.
I'd even beta test it if it means i can play more maps :)

jambo
25th Oct 2005, 08:48 AM
I love it, as long as its a DA2 map.
I'd even beta test it if it means i can play more maps :)

same here

Enfyrneaux
25th Oct 2005, 11:38 AM
Okay folks, the map is now in open beta. (http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/14615/DA2-Artifice.zip) Keep in mind that this is a free host with limited bandwidth - the map can be downloaded about 140 times this week (three have downloaded it thus far).

If the devs want to include this map in DA2 1.1, I would be honored :D

Thejackal
25th Oct 2005, 01:22 PM
is that a not so suttle hint? :p
havnt had a chance to play it, but screenies look good

The--Grim--Reaper
26th Oct 2005, 01:54 AM
You rock. If this was a private beta instead, i would be biting your toes off to get at it.
Gives me a good reason to play DA2 some more, not that i need one

edit: very polished, this simply must be in 1.1, its a good map. Only thing is, you werent too creative with your objectives. They were all to reach a certain spot. Try adding some destroy ones and such Have to take out the front wall or something? When all of the objectives are all to just get to one place it gets a bit boring. Not that your map was, the bit where you have to get into the mines is quite interesting, turrets help quite a bit as a distraction on the attack.
A shot of the harvester would be cool, how about for last objective have 2 of them, they can try and disable the harvester through the heavily defended control panel, or destroy it with 15000 damage. Then all of a sudden you have a well polished unique map. Im sure this is possible.

8/10 because its so well polished, but it could be a little more creative on objectives and tying them into the story.

Enfyrneaux
26th Oct 2005, 12:16 PM
Only thing is, you werent too creative with your objectives. They were all to reach a certain spot. Try adding some destroy ones and such Have to take out the front wall or something?
There was originally a massive coverstone over the mine entrance, but for some reason only bullets would damage it...so until I fix that problem (and believe you me I will), I'll simply have the "advance" objective there.

I was also thinking about changing the harvester objective to a "use" type objective as well...but that would probably make the defenders lives a little too easy at the moment. If the map favors the attackers in 1.1, then I'll reconsider.

The--Grim--Reaper
26th Oct 2005, 11:30 PM
what would be really interesting, is to have different sections of the wall that you can shoot at, so you can enter through different places. It wouldnt really make too much difference in gameplay, but it adds a little bit of realism into it.

Majai
29th Oct 2005, 09:17 AM
I will add this to the battlegrounds server. If you release a beta map please put a -beta in the name just makes it easier for us admins who use a public redirect.

Kharnellius
2nd Feb 2006, 10:04 PM
DLing and testing now...

EDIT UPDATE:
(I used 8 vs 8 for all my testing)
Don't let the length of the post scare you away. This is a great map! I just tend to get a little too thorough with my posts. :p

Ok gave it a quick run so far. Very nice map! There are a few quirks that I think you may want to nip in the tail.

Near the second objective there are a number of dislodged brick sections that you have to jump over even though they are about the same height as normal steps. The worst part is you can't simply run up to it, hit jump after you realize this, and push forward in mid air to complete the jump over them. Instead you have to actually back up and get a running start in order to jump over them. I am not sure why this is. Very annoying, nonetheless.

Here are pics...
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Here walking straight forward will get you stuck. I had to back up to the position shown above and run and jump to get over it.

*****************************************************

The other thing is related to bots. Once an objective is completed some of htem have a hard time getting to the next spot to defend. I found myself with 2 other bots holding off 8 attackers (16 players in all) at the final objective. The other 5 were busy picking daisies up at the surface.

I'm not so sure if this is so much entirely your fault but there are ways to fix it. When an objective is met and the new attacker spawn point is past that objective I have noticed this to be a problem.

This is also certainly true with your first objective with the attackers suddenly spawning 100 yards (or more) past where the defenders were just defending.

Past Solution: UT2004 solved this problem in Assault by having the option of translocating back to the proper defending spot by hitting "z". I dont know if the DA team wants to do that also.

Simple and Easy Solution: Either way your map is big enough that to solve this you could add another objective between objective one and two bringing the total to 4 in all. (a simple "get here" objective would be fine)
Also put the 3rd attacker spawn point closer to the 2nd objective so, at the very least, the defender bots will attack them...eventually die...and respawn in the proper spot.

******************************************************


Lastly, bots have a little trouble with staying in the side hallways directly behind the final objective. Some of them decide theyd rather cower there than actually defend the final objective.

I'm not certain how common this is so I will have to further test this first.


Boy, don't I feel dumb. I didn't realize the attackers could come attack down from those halls also. You're really trying to make this map hard to defend. I have yet to win. They just come from all over.

Suggestion: You may want to make that hallway at least come out in front of the defending point instead of behind it.

Screenshot enroute...
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You could have a tunnel go under (or over) this area to reach this new doorway. hehe, this gave me an awesome idea. Have a tunnel go under but make a small opening in this floor so you can see down into it. Lobbing grenades down there at incoming attackers could be fun (and they could throw their own up at the defenders).


I don't know. I'm torn on this one also. Anyone else have an opinion? Is this map too hard to defend? Or should it remain that way as a challenge?
Remember these are only suggestions.

EDIT (again, 2-3-06): Well I have been playing the map more and more. It's a lot of fun...but still hard as hell to defend. However, with human defenders I think you may be able to defend easier since they would generally pick better spots to defend from. I'm still on the wire on whether or not the map is too hard to defend.

It's very hard...yet it gives a nice challenge too. If you take care of the spawning spots and the few things you already mentioned above, I think it might even up the map enough to keep the current configuration how it is.

******************************************************

All in all very nice design. I found myself having a lot of fun with the map....that's ALWAYS a good sign. You had pretty good cover in the form of bunkers, pylons, rocks. It is always good to break up open space with items that can be used as cover. :tup:

The potential for greatness on this one is VERY high...keep up the awesome work!

If you fix these few things...I think you could have a real awesome winner.

Thanks,
Kharn

P.S. I will continue to test the map. These were only first impressions.
P.S.S. (2-3-06) Still testing.....still loving it.

Kharnellius
4th Feb 2006, 02:16 AM
There was originally a massive coverstone over the mine entrance, but for some reason only bullets would damage it...

I wonder, does the map DA2-Refinery have this problem also? The second to the last objective requires you to take out the main door to the base by shooting at it. Does that only take damage from bullets also?

If not, my question is what are you doing different from what the author of Refinery did? Perhaps take a look at that map to see if there is something you can pull from it.

I don't know if this helps...but it's just a thought.

Kharn.

EDIT: fixed map name error

Hunz
4th Feb 2006, 08:58 AM
I think you mean DA2-Refinery.
I strongly recommend to the mappers not to mess with the pivot of the meshes - the center must be located in the visible center since explosioin-damage is determined by the distance to it.

...however, I have no problems damaging the door of refinery with rockets and grenades.

Kharnellius
4th Feb 2006, 11:01 AM
I think you mean DA2-Refinery.
I strongly recommend to the mappers not to mess with the pivot of the meshes - the center must be located in the visible center since explosioin-damage is determined by the distance to it.

...however, I have no problems damaging the door of refinery with rockets and grenades.

Sorry yes...I meant Refinery :p

Crazy-Kenny
5th Feb 2006, 08:43 AM
This map is so great!!! :)

Enfyrneaux
15th Feb 2006, 11:14 AM
I think you mean DA2-Refinery.
I strongly recommend to the mappers not to mess with the pivot of the meshes - the center must be located in the visible center since explosioin-damage is determined by the distance to it.
The problem with the original coverstone was that its pivot point was below the mesh by default. However, the coverstone in the test version works fine now.

Kharnellius
15th Feb 2006, 06:19 PM
Ok I have looked closer at your map including the update your provided. Here are my findings so far...

NOTE: This is meant to be a visual library of everythign I have found so far. Some of these are rather minor but I feel you can determine which ones are more important to fix than others. If anyone finds more you can PM me and I will add them or I suppose you could add your own post as well.

Thanks,
Kharn

(I am limited to 5 screenshots per post and many must remain in groups since they are of the same areas, so don't lecture me on double/triple/n-tuple posting.)



Here goes...

First, the bugs.

Bots get stuck on this rock on your way to the coverstone objective.
93320
93321

Spelling error.....you forget the rest of your name :p
93322

Kharnellius
15th Feb 2006, 06:31 PM
The map is still somewhat unbalanced in certain areas. In some spots it is VERY easy to defend. In other areas it is nearly impossible to defend. I will start with the coverstone objective.

Coverstone Objective (Props for getting the coverstone to work! :tup:)

Notice how much time is left in each of these screenshots. This is 8 vs 8. I barely breathed hard keeping bots from destroying the coverstone. With humans however, most of this will change since human players will be using rockets to bomb the **** out of the cover. Not sure how to counter that. This would be fine since that means they can get to the next objective. But, you are going to have to work on the last objective to make it actually defendable.
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Another problem is the attackers are still trickling in way to slow. I kept finding myself wishing there were bad guys to shoot. I figured, "Spawn point must be too far away." Well, when I became an attacker this is where I was spawning!
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(Spawning here!??!?!?!)
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Proposed Solution (...that should solve all of this and was already mentioned)

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Clarification:

Blue "X" is first objective.
Blue "O"s are where attackers should spawn after they reach the first objective.
Red "X" is the NEW second objective.
Green "O"s are where the defenders should spawn while defending the second objective.
Red "O"s are where attackers should spawn once they complete the New second objective.
After attackers complete the second objective defenders will spawn as normal near the coverstone.Mostly this setup is to buy defenders time to put up a viable defence for the coverstone and also give attackers a closer spawnpoint once they succesfully get close enough.

Enfyrneaux
15th Feb 2006, 07:31 PM
Yeah...that area of the map is really messed up in the current test version. I have been focusing on getting the bots to attack properly, but the real key here may be in adding that extra objective that you mentioned.

As for the cave, I might add an extra turret or two for the defenders. I don't know how hard it will be for 1.1, as I only have 1.0 and the testers' words on bot balance.

Spelling error.....you forget the rest of your name :p
93322
omgwtf bbq :lol:

Kharnellius
15th Feb 2006, 07:52 PM
omgwtf bbq :lol:

bbq?

Enfyrneaux
15th Feb 2006, 08:00 PM
bbq?
Yes, bbq. It's part of a three-pronged assault of 3-letter acronyms!

Kharnellius
15th Feb 2006, 08:01 PM
Final Objective


Attackers need to spawn here......where the crosshairs are pointing. This solves the problem of defending bots sitting up there doing nothing as attackers will cremate them as they spawn. This also will give defenders a little more time.
93334

Attackers can destroy turrets here from the hall (near the radar) without being contested by the turrets. Example in next screenshot.
Also those turrets need to be moved back more (towards the right of the screen)...they dont cover the hallways very well.
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I took out these turrets without punishment for my sins. :p
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Kharnellius
15th Feb 2006, 08:01 PM
Yes, bbq. It's part of a three-pronged assault of 3-letter acronyms!

lol, ok.