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View Full Version : Lucian04s' Overview of Defence Alliance 2 (mods take note)


Lucian04
10th Oct 2005, 09:02 PM
Well, seeing as this is my first post on these forums I guess I might as well start by saying the entire dev team for DA2 should give themselves one big pat on the back. I'm sure if this was ready for the MSU in a more complete form you guys definetly would have won! But when it's all said and done, the Red Orchestra dev team beat you guys to the punch.


I found this mod to be very slick and very easy to get into. From the simple menu interface and the slick battle maps playing in the background instead of having a static screen has shown me you guys/girls take pride in your work before I even started the game. Getting into the menus, setting my options and starting an "offline" game took me all of 2 minutes and the mod itself loads up very quickly. That right there deserves and A+.

When I started my first game I figured I'd go simple and play as a defender in "Triumph 5". The thing that got to me was I didn't see any "Press Fire To Start" onscreen so I thought my videocard was glitching with 2d in the mod. No worries, after about 2 minutes I came to the conclusion that I should just press the "fire" button. After the match started, figuring out what to do, where to defend and what class I should use for a given situation came natural even though I had never gotten the pleasure of playing the first "Defence Alliance" mod for UT99. Choosing between classes was simple and slick, figuring out how the mechanic worked took all of like 5 seconds and each class had his own feel which is especially needed in a class based game.

The Graphics themselves are also very slick from the custom models and effects to the overall aura of the game. It all fits together, all though I will mention that having futuristic looking soldiers in Jungle environments looks a little out of place. The gloss on the armor plates to the detailed scratched and battleworn look on the soldiers is topnotch and proves the Unreal Warfare engine still has some kick left in it. Especially for the file size of your mod, you guys were able to pack so much into so little it boggles my mind.

Weapons themselves also look very good although it's a little hard to distinguish the two shotguns from each other as the mechanics shotgun uses a magazine while the medics auto shotgun uses a standard slot fed mechanizm. I believe it should be the otherway around as the Autoshotty would more benefit in real life with a magazine system than would a normal finger fed slot system that the manual pump shotty would benifit from more.

Also another thing I found wierd was that the tracers coming from the Anti Armor class' SMG is off center. It comes out from the center of the screen instead of being oriented from the muzzle of the weapon itself. I will take a screenshot and edit this post later to show you.

Other than that, the guns look chunky and mean which brings me to another point. Chunky, mean looking weapons should produce Chunky, gross looking deaths. Aside from the explosives, of which wonderfully gib and dismember people in a glorious fasion, non of the weapons feel the way they sound. Ever hear the old saying

"His bark is worse than his bite"

That phrase applies here. Go play the "Ballistics" mod for a little bit and you'll see how awesome the after affects of killing someone with a shotgun at close range can be. I want to see more blowback from getting shot and more force from thrown bodies when suffering the effects of a rocket to the chest or a face full of buckshot. Aside from this minor complaint, and the fact that you should make the screen for the rocket launcher a bit bigger, the weapons are completely badass.

OMFG I HAVE TEH TURRETS SYNDROME!!!! Turrets seem to play a more integral part of this game than does actual combat mano e mano. I find myself switching from "Long Range" to "Mechanic" far too often so that I my build a couple turrets and or repair other turrets to keep the attackers at bay. I actually prefer the Chaos UT Turret system in the fact that the turret has multiple weapons, a decent lifespan, is more susceptable to explosives than normal firearms and isn't overpowering like the Auto Targeting Crusher and DFA Turrets. Not that they're bad at all, watching a Crusher Turret catch some poor fool dead in the face brings some great moments of "OMFG THAT WAS FING KRAZY!!" but watching the turrets annihilate the opposition to the point everyone just says F' it and goes lemmings on the damn thing to destroy it kinda takes the fun out of actual soldier to soldier combat.

My thoughts on the Turret System

-The Build Times are proportionate to the power each Type of Turret has so thats fine.

-Turrets should have a limited amount of ammo that can be restocked by either the Mechanic or the Machine Gunner. Give them enough ammo to last awhile, but not enough to make them godly killing machines.

-The Auto Tracking for the Turrets is way to fast. Either slow it down a notch or make the turrets AI tracking level proportionate to the level of difficulty the maps being played in.

-Depending on the map size and amount of players, Class types should be limited ( a la Red Orchestra) to prevent "Turret Spamming" by mass amounts of mechanics. I remember playing in Black Gold and had 3 other mechanics on my team, we all just littered the choke point with turrets galore, the attackers never stood a chance.

-Turret Control should also be extended to the "Infantry" class only for the fact that during some point in the match you may not even have a machine gunner on your team or in the game period and you desperately need to take control of one of your turrets to more effectively control the crowd coming to crash your party

Now on to the glitches I've noticed. I've only seen/ three glitches/problems so far in game which is pretty impressive considering some mods release with TONS of glitches.

Turret Hopping - Turret Hopping happens when a fine strapping young lad decides to walk/jump into an unfinished (still transparent Turret) and gets launched into the air sometimes causing an untimely death for those in bad health most likely due to getting shot at and not getting treated by a medic.

Weapon not firing - as the mechanic I went to go repair a turrent while in the middle of reloading. After I was done with the turret I tried firing my weapon and then tried to reload it again. To no avail I got blasted away cause my weapon jammed due to a glitch. Tried dying. No worky. Tried changing classes. Still no worky. I had to reload the map to get my weapon working again. It's only happened once so I'll just shrug it off, but it's definetly something that should be looked at.

Fall Damage - OMFG WHY IS IT THAT I FALL LIKE 5 FEET AND TAKE 20% DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fall damage is totally out of proportion in this mod. Please decrease the amount of fall damage, not to the point that it's "UNREAL", but so I dont have to lose 60% of my life after jumping down a flight of stairs. I found that I've died more from falling than I have from my enemies which is a really bad sign lol. I have to stop drinking.

As for the General Performance of the mod. It runs better than UT2004 does on my PC actually lol.

Rez: 1280x960
Settings: Ultra High
Anti Aliasing: 4x
Anisotrophic Filtering: 16x
FrameRate According to Fraps: 54fps with AA / 82fps without AA

You can see my system in my sig. As you can see, you've obviously done a great job in optimizing the game and making sure it ran very well without compromising the Graphical Integrity.

Awesome Job Guys! I can't wait until your future releases (of which can you give us a general estimation of your next DA 2 release)!!!





-LUCIAN04

FluXs
10th Oct 2005, 09:29 PM
Hello, Lucian... thankyou for your great comments.... to answer your questions in order:

We did for a while look at the MSUC but we had already started DA2 way back before then, but due to problems and a slow start we felt it best not race for the MSUC, just look at all those others mods during the MSUC and ask yourselves where they are now? :)

As we decided not to enter we just carried on through developing our game, which I think everyone can say, was the best course of action :)

as to your suggestions for the game:

Death, yes someone else mentioned to us, that are deaths should mirror the weapon more. However it was not something we looked at much, but we will look at in the future, however we are working on the death side of things with some new features in 1.1 which I hope everyone will enjoy.

As for turrets, you have come to the same ideas as the rest of the forums, which is great! as now we have an idea about what the community wants the turrets todo. We agreed the turrets would need work, but beta testing can only go so far, where you come to a point you need the wider community to play it and find all those unbalances.

We do thankyou and everyone else for understanding the turret issues and we will be working on them in 1.1, my guess is after 1.1 there will still be things to be tweaked, but it should be a lot more fun.

Things like ammo and turret speeds etc are all being looked into and we will post a list of whats gonna be done in the coming weeks.

Fall Damage : yes :P its a bit high but before it was to stop people jumping out of tall buildings, we can look at decreasing this as I know the problem with the ladders cause you to fall and die rather then climb down.

The weapon firing bug is also being looked into.

As for a patch, look out for a news release tomorrow regarding DA2, but we hope to get 1.1 out ASAP to fix as best we can the gameplay by November, so people can carry on enjoying DA2 whilst we build in more features for future patches.

Expect a patch list soon, but we are still finalising what should be in for 1.1 and what can wait.

Again thankyou for your comments... and keep them coming, as we really do read them all and take them into consideration.

TKEagle
10th Oct 2005, 09:29 PM
I didnt want to start a new topic about my feedback on the mod so I will post it here, only on word comes to mind when I play this, Uncanny I cant believe that you didnt push to make the "Make something Unreal Contest" This mod is the most amazing mod I think I've ever played it shows alot of promise, when I say the most amazing mod I mean it cross engine even, I competed In Counter-Strike for years CPL, OGL, and TWL and I had more fun in this mod in the first 10 minutes then I've had in any game in the past year or so, I've been looking for something to fill a void in my gaming life since I stopped competing in CS and BF1942 and I think this is it, I'm talking to my clan as well as some clans we are associated with and I'm going to get as many high end servers running this mod a.s.a.p. Keep up the good work guys the community is behind you, you've rekindled my love for UT.

On another note you need to get some better publicity try to get your mod as a featured download on fileplanet or something.

FluXs
10th Oct 2005, 09:39 PM
TKEagle....

IF you can get more people playing this game I WILL LOVE YOU for life, if you can get clans interested thats GREAT, one feature(s) we wanted to get into DA2 v1.0 was some good CLAN support. such as team patches on the arms, and better overall stat reporting (weapon stats, kills, skills) at the end of the round. But all that takes time to code :(

Ive also read people on other sites and forums commenting on DA2, that it could rekindle the UT Community, which is amazing if we can....

yeah i think we need some publicity too. We have a few magazines across Europe emailing us to add it on there Magazine DVDs, so watch out for November, December, January Editions of PC magazines for DA2! and if you spot us. please scan it in as I would love to see them

Lucian04
10th Oct 2005, 09:50 PM
Fluxs-

I appreciate you reading my post and taking it into consideration along with everyone elses comments about the wonderful TC you and your team have managed to create. I'm going to be ontop of this mod like white on rice for quite sometime now. If anything comes up with this TC I'll be sure to let you guys know about it so it can be examined/fixed and or tweaked.


TK-

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the needing some new life in the FPS genre. I've been playing the hell outta this TC with my friends/bros on my homebuilt lan center ( 6 PC's in my basement all with similar hardware to mine) and we've all been having a blast playing with ourselves and 26 bots in "BlackGold". At somepoints the mod has taken on a "Saving Private Ryan" D day approach with the absolute crazyness of some of the firefights. I'd love to join your clan if you can get them to adopt this mod. UT2004 really needs some new life breathed into it and the more we can spread the word of this mod, the more clan support we can get for it and trying to get the mod sponsered by Team Warfare would give UT2004 the support it needs to keep wonderful devs such as flux working hard for nothing but our satisfaction the peace of mind that he and his team have done something to better our gaming experience.

TKEagle
10th Oct 2005, 09:57 PM
I've already convinced a clan affiliated with us to launch a server. Going to try and pull some strings and get the mod some publicity if thats ok with the team. Going to push some emails out see if we can get it as a featured file at a few places. And at the very least post in fourms.

I have some of the same setup you do Lucian, 15 machines across a network of two houses two 3 bedroom houses all gamers, its paradise.

Edited: I'm currently contacting G4TV trying to get them to do a quick spot on the mod.

FluXs
10th Oct 2005, 10:07 PM
wow the more i read these forums the more i get this warm fuzzy feeling of those UT99 Days with its great commuity :) you lot are the best.

And please dont hesitate to spread the word, kidnap people etc if it gets more people then it can only make peoples games more fun. As I am sure a lot of people dont play the game who have downloaded as they dont see a game they can join, either the busy DA2 servers are full or they dont want to start an empty server.

Having a constant player base online means more people can drop in at any time and that can only be done by having people who play the mod online :)

All I ask is if you drop us a message on the forums on what you have been doing to spread the word so we know whats happening :)

The UT04 revolution has begun!

Lucian04
10th Oct 2005, 10:58 PM
wow the more i read these forums the more i get this warm fuzzy feeling of those UT99 Days with its great commuity :) you lot are the best.

And please dont hesitate to spread the word, kidnap people etc if it gets more people then it can only make peoples games more fun. As I am sure a lot of people dont play the game who have downloaded as they dont see a game they can join, either the busy DA2 servers are full or they dont want to start an empty server.

Having a constant player base online means more people can drop in at any time and that can only be done by having people who play the mod online :)

All I ask is if you drop us a message on the forums on what you have been doing to spread the word so we know whats happening :)

The UT04 revolution has begun!



10-4 Ducky

DA|Dante
11th Oct 2005, 07:53 AM
-Depending on the map size and amount of players, Class types should be limited ( a la Red Orchestra) to prevent "Turret Spamming" by mass amounts of mechanics. I remember playing in Black Gold and had 3 other mechanics on my team, we all just littered the choke point with turrets galore, the attackers never stood a chance.


We don't like the idea of actual class limits. It seems to hide another balance issue if one does so. There shouldn't be any turret spamming. Both teams can, in addition to the map placed turrets, only build 3 turrets at a time. If you saw more there might be a bug.

Oh and thanks for your comment. I hope to see more of those :D

Hunz
11th Oct 2005, 07:56 AM
Wow! Thanks alot for this nice feedback - Iam positively shocked :D

Dest
11th Oct 2005, 11:44 AM
ouch much to read..

spec_x
11th Oct 2005, 12:32 PM
Have I told you all that I love you dearly? ^_^

Lucian04
11th Oct 2005, 03:25 PM
We don't like the idea of actual class limits. It seems to hide another balance issue if one does so. There shouldn't be any turret spamming. Both teams can, in addition to the map placed turrets, only build 3 turrets at a time. If you saw more there might be a bug.

Oh and thanks for your comment. I hope to see more of those :D



The whole mod team is welcome. Actually I should be thanking you guys for bringing new life to Unreal Tournament 2004. This game was on the backburner to GTA SA (PC) and Half Life 2 until I heard that this and the Ballistics mod were being released around this time.

As for the whole turret thing, on Black gold we had the one turret already placed at the head of the "T Intersection" that came with the map. One mechanic built a DFA Turret at the top of the hill on the left side of the T and another built a Built a Crusher Turret on the right side and I built a DFA turret on the foot of the "T Intersection".. Lets just say it was pure rapage seeing as the attackers really can't see "my turret" when coming up to the intersection and by the time they get there they got 3 turrets to deal with + a 16 soldier welcoming party. Theres absolutely no way to win in BlackGold if you're an attacker and the choke point was as well protected as I had it.


The only way I could see something like that being beaten is if everyone of the attackers gets rocket launchers and goes kamikaze. But then again the distance from the attackers start point to the choke point gives the mechanics enough time to build up new defences if the Long Range and Infantry soldiers can keep the new attackers at bay for a minute or two which shouldn't be hard considering the defenders have the high ground. Black Gold is a great map, dont get me wrong.. It just happens to really cater to the defenders lol.

TKEagle
11th Oct 2005, 03:37 PM
Actually if you get a team full of rocket launchers and an ammo box or two its easy to beat the first objective without ever leaving the spawn.

Lucian04
11th Oct 2005, 03:43 PM
Actually if you get a team full of rocket launchers and an ammo box or two its easy to beat the first objective without ever leaving the spawn.


It's possible, then again you have to be a pro at aiming the rocket with that tiny little screen. Not to mention you can actually shoot the rockets down (nice touch dev team! I love it!) which would make it point less. That and a mechanic can come and put a Turret right at that point overlooking the left Attacker spawn area along with a Sniper or two and smoke you all before you can get a few rockets off.

TKEagle
11th Oct 2005, 03:45 PM
Its not too bad, I did it by myself last night, had one of the Devs in server with me too, lol. It can be done fairly easy and once you get that oil rig destroyed you spawn near the ramp/T

Lucian04
11th Oct 2005, 03:49 PM
Its not too bad, I did it by myself last night, had one of the Devs in server with me too, lol. It can be done fairly easy and once you get that oil rig destroyed you spawn near the ramp/T



Lol that is cheesy. But then again how many people do you think are that smart lol? A majority of them will just try to rush up the middle and get owned badly. I can see that happening more often when the grenade launcher comes into play in the next update hopefully. Soften up that area with the grenade launcher and then let the rocket soldiers have at it.

spec_x
11th Oct 2005, 04:29 PM
eagles right, all you need is like 3 AA that can use the alt fire and you can take out the first objective pretty easily. People just need to learn the maps and work better as a team :)

Lucian04
11th Oct 2005, 04:46 PM
eagles right, all you need is like 3 AA that can use the alt fire and you can take out the first objective pretty easily. People just need to learn the maps and work better as a team :)



True, but like I said. It can be counteracted with smart teamwork (and enough teammates.


Problem:Attackers take out oilrig with remote control rockets from the Left Attacker Spawn Point

Solution(s): Defenders can protect the oilrig by

A) Get a machinegunner/infantryman or two to defend the oilrig by shooting down the rockets as they come seeing as they are pretty slow moving.

B) Set up a DFA Turret at the cliff edge on the same level as the oilrig to deter Rocket Soldiers from hanging around in one spot while using remote control rockets. Have another mechanic on the other side set up another DFA Turret overlooking the same point so that when the Rocket Soldiers come into view they'll get hit from two sides. Then have a Crusher Turret on the bottom drawing fire from the Right Attacker spawn point while the other two mechanics can work on maintaining the DFA Turrets.

C) Get two or three really good snipers in those same locations

D) Get your entire team together and form a "PEACE CHAIN" around the oilrig and protest until the attacking team either gives in or blows the defending team into bloody chunks with a massive grenade toss.

eklipze
12th Oct 2005, 05:40 PM
Great post Lucain, it really hits the nail on the head! ;)