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View Full Version : What? No AI waves in DA2?


kevb0
29th Sep 2005, 12:12 PM
I've been eyeing this mod for a while, and I must say, it does look awesome.

But, upon looking deeper, I noticed that there will not be AI waves to defend against. It will be Human vrs Human, which makes me jump to the conclusion that it will play out like TFC and 2k4's Assault mode combined.

What lead to this decision? I always felt that defending against the hordes of AI storming the base was much more fun than being sniped by [420]Th@$nip4w0lF as I'm leaving my spawn.

What will be done to enforce teamwork? I fear that it will have what I like to call "Red Orchestra Syndrome", which is where there is no actual teamwork enforced, so when you join a public server, you are greeted with a cluster**** of a game, with no real strategy or gameplay mechanics.

I know this thread comes off as a flame, but I feel let down knowing that one of the mods that I thought would be one of my favorites, could perhaps become another bland, generic FPS shooter that looses it's individuality.

I hope at least some sort of actual Defending is added in future releases. In my opinion, the game was fun, different, and exciting when it was a war of humans vrs a Massive wave of stupid AI.

DA|aBsOlUt
29th Sep 2005, 12:53 PM
Allow me to answer your concerns. Yes, DA2 is not strictly oriented as Players vs "stupid" bots. However it is not Players vs Players either. DA2 can combine all modes just like UT200x can do in most of its gametypes. The usual "Players Vs Bots" settings is still available in our settings.

The difference is, if you make it exclusive players vs bots, you can finally be on attacking team or defending team too. Bots know how to defend and they know how to attack. Offline play is a great feature DA:UT lacked and Dante - our coder - along with our mappers, have done an exceptional work making sure the bots will be challenging.

Last but not least, trust me you CANNOT win a DA2 map by yourself - defending or attacking - unless the game is like 1vs1. Lets say you are in a 8vs8 game attacking. If you do not use teamwork you simply cant make it by yourself as one class. Lets say you chose infantry, a class that is average in all specs but fails to beat the defensive turrets. You will need a rocket guy for that. Medics are always helpful nearby as well and mechanics can build the ammoboxes to refill your ammo even if you do kick so much ass.

There are so many grenades, turrets, bullets flying around that you can safely say that death is inevitable if you try it alone. You will die many times in a game of DA2 but according to what class you have chosen you will spawn fast enough. All this addup that teamwork must be enforced to succeed, or else you will get bored dying.

spec_x
29th Sep 2005, 01:05 PM
First off, thanks for posting :) Sometime last year(?) we decided to make a move towards PvP rather than the bot waves for various reasons, some of them being performance problems we were facing, others were our lack of team members and some other hard obstacles we ended up facing throughout development.

We have, however, great amounts of time towards balancing for PvP and also making sure that team work will be essential. PvB isn't entirely gone, there have been talking to bring another game mode just for those fans of waves (me being one of them) in a later patch or maybe beta 2.

It might not be in this coming release, but it's not entirely gone forever. Also, don't forget that servers can also be created to be played as Player vs Bot matches, so while it might not be the same wave system, it will still be roughly the same thing. With the amount of time we're spending on AI it is entirely possible to play a very fun filled defend against the bots, or attack the bots game on any server that plays with this setting.

I hope this at least somewhat answers your questions and we all appreciate your support and comments :)

spec_x
29th Sep 2005, 01:06 PM
lol, dammit abs, you beat me to the post!!!!

FluXs
29th Sep 2005, 01:09 PM
Hi! yes I hear what you are saying, apart from not having "attack waves" you can re-produce this in DA2 already, by setting one team as bots.

However I think after beta 1, we will add a button to create this setup straight away, which will :

- Allow playes to join one side only
- Spawn more bots on the enemy team then players on the defending side
- Allow defending bots to spawn to fill spaces

This feature is 90% in DA2 already, just requires a few rules as stated above

kevb0
29th Sep 2005, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the speedy replies.

I am growing more confident in this mod. Based on what you're saying, it's seeming alot better to me.

I guess having a Bot game could sort of fill my urges, but I don't think it will entirely do so.

Yeah, I've just thought about it more. Having 25 or even more bots constantly being killed, would most likely bog down the best of computers. I comepletely forgot that 2K4 has Karma phsyics.

Thanks again for the replies, Guys. You're shining light on a project I thought was once pitch black.

spec_x
29th Sep 2005, 03:31 PM
Glad to help :)

Hunz
29th Sep 2005, 04:16 PM
...and apart from the gameplay DA2 has much more to offer - beats alot of the other stuff out there.

Prelithe
5th Oct 2005, 11:42 PM
Believe me, the bots are bloody great ^^

MozTS
6th Oct 2005, 12:10 AM
I must hand it to you guys, these bots are sound. I love 'em

FluXs
6th Oct 2005, 05:20 AM
yeah, its one thing releasing a mod which is fun to play and another, releasing a mod which has 0 bot support in it.

For start like most of us who install a new mod, we go for offline play and when we are greeted with empty maps or standard AI it's very hard to understand what to do or judge the game

One thing I will ask Dante about, is if its possible for bots to use guided rockets >:)

MozTS
6th Oct 2005, 07:52 AM
Guided? When I get back from work I really need to read the manual.

FluXs
6th Oct 2005, 09:19 AM
LOL, Right click when using rocket launcher will fire a Guided Rocket. You need to use the mini screen on the rocket to guide it though, so it takes a while to perfect it :)