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Smoke39
3rd Sep 2005, 03:27 AM
So my new roommates an' I were wanting to play something with multiplayer, and I brought my copy of Unreal Gold, so we all installed it and played it a bit. Afterword, we all thought that the dispersion pistol was lameness, so I got the idea to replace it with shuriken (which darken you and make you faster'n'stuff) while watching one of them play Ninja Gaiden.

One thing kinda led to another, and now there's a kaginawa (grappling hook), tetsu-bishi (calthrops), smoke bomb, and bow. We tried it out on our network, and it was rather fun. One of them actually managed to escape me a few times with the smoke bomb, which was cool, 'cause it actually worked and was effective. :D I think the only network-related error was with the rope graphic for the kaginawa only being updated on my computer (edit: they also couldn't make key binds to exec functions in the inventory items work). I changed a couple of simulated functions to non-simulated functions to see if that would fix it, but we haven't tested it yet; none of my 'mates are real big on FPSs. So I've been tweaking it an' stuff, trying to teach bots to use the weapons and adding custom meshes.

I'm thinking of adding a fukiya (blow gun) with poison darts, an antidote inventory item (or maybe a first aid kit that can either heal or detoxify once), and either a kunai or tanto (dagger weapons). Maybe make poison a limited inventory item that can be activated to make any ninja weapon poisonous, with varying costs for different weapons and being free and automatic for the fukiya.

I d'know if anyone really even cares about a mod for ancient Unreal, but I find it amusing. Here's a snazzy pic of a ninja using the kaginawa to hide in the shadows with his bow equiped for sniping.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind if anyone wanted to help me test the network code every once in a while. :b

Postal
3rd Sep 2005, 07:15 AM
As for execs, unreal had 4 extra buttons you could bind too. Button bExtra0 through bExtra3

Cool to see someone still editing for U1.

Dont forget flash powder and the Ninja Dust.

Smoke39
3rd Sep 2005, 08:51 PM
Four might be enough, but why wouldn't mine work? They worked on my computer. :\

What's ninja dust? Crap you throw in someone's eyes to blind them? I might add one or both of those, but I'm not sure how to implement it. How can I get access to their canvas?

Postal
3rd Sep 2005, 11:42 PM
Yup, we sometimes yell ninja dust when we throw snow in someones eyes.

if (Pawn(Owner).bextra2!=0) or some code like that

Yea, you can blind people, but I dont recall how. ClientViewFlash, or tint or something.

Postal
3rd Sep 2005, 11:43 PM
class Blinder expands Actor;

var PlayerPawn targ;
var int Count;

function PostBeginPlay()
{
Super.PostBeginPlay();

SetTimer(0.1, true);
Count = 0;
}

function Timer()
{
if (targ == none)
Destroy();
else if (Count == 0)
{
targ.ClientAdjustGlow(+0.5, vect(1000,1000,1000));
Count++;
SetTimer(0.3, true);
}
else if (Count++ > 20)
Destroy();
else
targ.ClientAdjustGlow(0.5, vect(-50,-50,-50));
}

defaultproperties
{
DrawType=DT_None
}

Smoke39
4th Sep 2005, 12:54 AM
That view glow stuff is really inconsistent for me. Like, if I go underwater, the blue component of the view fog will come on, but it'll take a while for the green component to work or something. By the way, I made an inventory item for the tetsu-bishi and bow leg damage slowing effect. That way you don't have to constantly check if Owner == none, since inventory is destroyed when someone dies, and it can be checked for without having to iterate through all actors, just go through the inventory linked list with FindInventoryType() or whatever it is.

Postal
4th Sep 2005, 09:05 AM
Well thats some old code. Its cool that you have updated it, hope it works out for you.

Smoke39
4th Sep 2005, 11:02 PM
I realized that I could make a new HUD, since this is a game type. So I messed with that. The first shot shows something I did that makes the game a bit brighter, but doesn't wash out the graphics and make them greyish like increasing the brightness does. Yay. The other two are of the flash blind effect fading.

Postal
5th Sep 2005, 07:07 AM
Damn you, first you make me reinstall DX, soon it will be U1 too.

Smoke39
5th Sep 2005, 08:25 AM
Haha, thank you. XD

The flash bomb is fully implemented as an item now. That makes five items now, so I couldn't use the bExtras even if I wanted to. I also put the kusuribin (medicine can) in. Currently, it restores 25 health and cures leg damage (cause by a bow leg shot or stepping on tetsu-bishi). It'll also heal poison, once the fukiya's in.

I've been thinking about the fukiya and possible melee weapons. I can't think of a secondary fire for the fukiya. D: As for melee weapons, I've mildly considered a bokken/ninja-to/wakizashi progression (maybe dispersion pistol upgrades upgrade your sword). I think I can make a sword different enough from the tanto/kunai to warrent its inclusion, but I'm not sure about the upgrading deal. As for the tanto/kunai, I'm considering having you wield two at once, with primary being a rapid slashing normally or a lethal backstab if you're behind someone, and secondary causing you to jump over someone, spinning midair to face them, the idea being to get behind them quickly for a backstab. Another idea for kunai would be to have your shuriken upgrade to kunai, and making the slash/backstab weapon a tanto.

Postal
5th Sep 2005, 09:36 AM
Well, you could do the slash/stab deal

Slash does more damage, but is slower
stab is better against armor, and is faster

Or, perhaps make the altfire the shurikens?

Smoke39
5th Sep 2005, 06:48 PM
Slash/stab for the sword? I was thinking of making primary attack, and secondary defend. It would be lower-risk than the dagger, but with perhaps less damage potential, or with a lower speed bonus so actually getting close enough would be tougher, making the defending more important.

I think shuriken work pretty well as their own weapon. Primary throws single shuriken rapidly, and secondary throws five in a fan pattern.

I think I may make secondary of the fukiya shoot metsubishi (your "ninja dust"). At first, it seems pointless; why blind them when you can just poison them and leave? But the poison is delayed, and can also be healed if they haven't used their kusuribin. So you might blind them as well for a one-two punch, or maybe it could be used to develop even more strategies, I don't know. The metsubishi would be harder to use than the flash bomb, so I think it hopefully won't make the flashbomb irrelevant. Perhaps I'll try it and see. It would be nice if bots were more... human. @_@

Postal
5th Sep 2005, 07:31 PM
How about a spear too? Thrust and Throw.

debucode
9th Sep 2005, 01:12 PM
Hey, I was just sitting around thinking what I want to do with my own ninja mod, and what kind of future things might be possible with UT2K7, now you guys are going retro...!

It sounds like you have a pretty cool weapon set. I like the idea of doing upgrades, and being able to appy poison to different weapons.

Postal
9th Sep 2005, 03:02 PM
Posion could be done like the damage amp, turn it on and off, and when its on, you do posion damage.

Smoke39
9th Sep 2005, 03:58 PM
Yis, that's the idea.

The fukiya is difficult to balance. I think the gameplay of Unreal doesn't really suit the use of subtle, stealthy weapons. I may ditch the weapon. The poison effect is good, though, I think, so implementing poison as an item may be sufficient for keeing the spirit of poisoning enemies in the mod.

Postal
9th Sep 2005, 07:13 PM
make it so youre cloaked if you crouch + fukiya, slightly visable when you walk and hold it.

Smoke39
9th Sep 2005, 09:59 PM
Why would you ever use anything else if it made you invisible?

The poison item is implemented. I'll probably be messing with the poison cost of different weapons for quite a while.

Smoke39
10th Sep 2005, 02:02 AM
Bots know how to use poison (nothing fancy, they just use it automatically on every shot until it runs out), and will sometimes heal themselves if poisoned, based on their skill (based on skill because it's HARD to react quickly enough to heal yourself :b). Maybe I'll see if I can get bots to use the kusuribin or smoke bomb when low on health, and maybe the flash bomb every once in a while.

Is there any way to 1: make bots honor the Visibility variable better, and 2: change how well bots see, aim, and navigate? Aiming I could probably find, which might be good enough.

Also, all your inventory items are drawn down the right side of the HUD now, instead of only three (at least until it runs out of space, which is unlikely). Once I figure out how the messages are displayed, I'll make it so the death messages etc. and player communications don't overlap anymore, and add a background behind them to make them easier to read.

Psycho_Leech
2nd Oct 2005, 10:00 AM
A few ideas if you're still working on this:

Perhaps a Bakuhatsugama? (A scyth weapon with a weighted chain attached to it, which could be swung as an altfire, possibly trapping an opponent's weapon.)

Tekagi (http://www1.kamakuranet.ne.jp/sankaido/oasobi2.htm) for climbing walls, might be pointless with the grappling hook, but it would handle more like walking on the wall, perhaps giving better control in that respect.

The ability to play as a Samurai instead, perhaps with a team of ninjas against a team of Samurai, the Samurai would have superior swords and armour, but the ninjas would have gadgets and stealth to balance it out.

Smoke39
2nd Oct 2005, 05:44 PM
I am still working on it. :) I just started working on a ninja-to. Slicing someone's head off up close is rather satisfying, especially with the new headshot bloodspray effect. I'm still trying to think of a good secondary fire.

How would I differentiate the bakuhatsugama from and balance it with the ninja-to?

I d'know how I'd code tekagi.

Samruai v. Ninja might be cool. Anyone know how I could make a GUI for selecting your class? Maybe I could just make it decide based on your team color.

debucode
2nd Oct 2005, 10:05 PM
Does UT have spider physics? That would be the way I would expect to do climbing. It's really a different kind of wall climbing than the usual grapple, plus you could have a melee attack using the claws.

I assume chain weapons would work more like the chain knives in God of War - not sure how that fits into the UT code base. Or, they could be more like the grapple but would pull the enemy like Scorpion's Van Dam spear from MK ("get over here"), or maybe just hold the enemy so they can't attack.

Neuroflare
2nd Oct 2005, 10:16 PM
Remember folks, the plural of Ninja is Ninja.

Smoke39
3rd Oct 2005, 05:55 PM
Spider physics work all... weird.

Grabbing someone with a chain and pulling them toward you to kill them with a melee attack sounds pretty slick. I once tried to allow the kaginawa to disarm people if you hit them with it, but it was really hard to actually hit anyone with it.

I know, 'Flare, I'm sorry. D:

Postal
3rd Oct 2005, 06:53 PM
What if you hit someone with the grapple, they are wrapped up(ie Batman style), and cant attack, hit the grapple key again, and then you pull them in.

Smoke39
3rd Oct 2005, 10:09 PM
How would I make it possible to actually score a hit with it?

Smoke39
4th Oct 2005, 01:41 AM
Ninja-to third person mesh. :O

debucode
4th Oct 2005, 04:07 AM
Sword looks nice and shiny - one question, do you want it that big?

If the kaginawa grapple was fast / had a homing component, it might be easier to hit someone with the tip (probably hard to hit weapon in hand w/o some kind of homing assist). Alternately, if the tip were moving in an arc, maybe UT will let you do traces between the tip and the thrower to see if it hits stuff (I think the "ninja rope" mutator does something like this)?

Smoke39
4th Oct 2005, 05:15 PM
I might shrink it a bit, but the range is pretty long so I'll probably leave it a bit big.

Homing might work. It could pick it's target by firing a trace, and if the hook moved fast enough the homing might not be too apparent to seem weird. I'll see if simply increasing the speed makes it sufficiently easier first, though.

The problem with doing traces between the hook and the thrower is that small objects could be missed due to insufficient frequency of traces. The kaginawa's physics aren't very realistic, but it's fun to use. :)

Kangus
4th Oct 2005, 07:21 PM
Unreal 1 mod?!? Good gravy! It's a reason to update old WoD! Why didn't I think of this a month ago when I first saw? :p

debucode
4th Oct 2005, 10:25 PM
The hook could just try to lead the target based on the target's velocity after the initial trace is done. That way it will always hit (without obvious homing) unless the target deviates from the line of fire...

Smoke39
5th Oct 2005, 12:31 AM
I tried increasing the speed. Besides still being difficult to aim, anytime you missed you got pulled toward the wall behind your target. I think any chain weaponry would probably be better-suited to being its own weapon rather than an extension of the kaginawa.

I'm experimenting with the ninja-to. Right now it works kinda like the light saber in the Jedi Knight games. Not attacking allows you to automatically defend. Secondary is a vertical strike that defeats defense, but leaves you open longer. I think bots are too stupid to test it against; they rarely get close enough to you to engage in close combat, even with SuggestAttackStyle() returning 1.

debucode
5th Oct 2005, 04:28 AM
I suppose it's true that dedicated fighting games generally don't allow constant running at deathmatch speeds - and enemies tend to stand still to fight.

Smoke39
5th Oct 2005, 07:14 PM
I looked at how the suggested style functions work, and 1 isn't in any way the limit. So I think I got the bots to get close to people with the sword. I'm working on teaching them how to use it skillfully. The idea is to make them only use secondary fire if attacking someone who's currently defending with a ninja-to, to hang back a bit after attacking while they're open, and to only attempt to attack when they're actually close.

Smoke39
5th Oct 2005, 10:04 PM
Bots are predictable and inhumanly in-tune with your mistakes, but they know how to use the ninja-to pretty well now. I think all that's left now is to set up the rating part of RateSelf().

My plan for the kusari-gama is to make primary a short-ranged melee attack, and secondary throw the chain out to grab people and pull them in. Pressing secondary fire while the chain's out without having grabbed anyone will allow you to twirl it around and smack people with the weight. Once you do hit somone, you'll have to throw it out again to start twirling it again. People'll be released once they reach you, but maybe secondary fire while you're reeling someone in will release them early.

Smoke39
7th Oct 2005, 01:39 AM
The melee attack and chain reeling functionalities are in. The sickle's range is so short that you really pretty much have to use the chain to get people, which is pretty fun. If you do score a solid hit with the sickle you're pretty much garaunteed a kill. I think I need to make the chain release people once they get real close to you, so if you do screw up with the sickle you'll have to hit them with the chain again before you can try again. I'll probably also have people released automatically if they somehow get too far away, like stuck against a wall in the way or something, mostly to prevent the chain linked list from killing Unreal with "infinite" recursion.

I've changed the kaginawa's chain back to the old rope model I made a while ago for it to better distinguish it from the kusari-gama's chain. I still need to make a weight mesh and figure out exactly how to make the chain twirling work. Right now I'm thinking of making it an actor with a big collision radius and short collision height that positions itself above your head and hurts anything it touches. Alternatively, I could have it periodically iterate through all visible actors and damage them as long as they're in range. I guess which method I use depends on whether I want the chain to stop twirling upon impact with something. My plan for the mesh would be the chain with maybe a blur-type effect with a spinning animation. I think that'd be better than trying to make the actual weight projectile orbit you and dealing with colliding with level geometry.

Here's a shot of the sickle the first time I tested it. :b

Neuroflare
9th Oct 2005, 10:22 PM
So I think that the forums are pretty much the whole WoD website now.

We should do something with that

Smoke39
22nd Oct 2005, 04:28 AM
I finally got a chance to test this on our LAN again. A bunch of stuff is totally ****ed up on the client side.

Postal
26th Oct 2005, 06:30 PM
Who says we need a website. Just offer all the content on the forums.

Oh, BTW, I will be gone for a nice long while. I'm going to Iraq.

debucode
30th Dec 2005, 01:43 PM
So, I only have UT2k3,4, but I'd like to see more ninja one way or another.

Smoke39
31st Dec 2005, 12:16 AM
Meaning?

debucode
31st Dec 2005, 03:50 PM
release!

Smoke39
31st Dec 2005, 05:46 PM
Maybe once I get back to Washington where my computer is. Why do you care if I release it if you don't have Unreal, though?

debucode
2nd Jan 2006, 06:35 AM
The simple reason is I've been collecting ninja/stealth games/mods.

I have a more complicated reason, which is I'm thinking about a ninja mod for the next Unreal - not a traditional TC mod, but something more like a federation of related mods - weapons, tools, models, and maps that happen to fit with the ninja theme, and that other people could repurpose in their own mods - with appropriate credit to the original authors. Does a UT mod fit in? Maybe, maybe not, but it would be interesting anyway.