Dear xbox 360 and ebgames, kiss my arse

[ZenPirate]

uber-bundle:
360 console, 4 games, 2 wireless controllers, rechearge kits for "only" $699.92

poorboy:
360 Core console, 4 games, 2 wired controllers, memory card for only $599.93



My thoughts...
Dear Microsoft: screw you guys, I'm going home

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/systems/xbox360/default.asp?site=NLF0823

[Twisted Metal]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.

Is there a difference on the actual console between the one that comes with a wireless controller and the one that comes with a wired controller?

I assume they both have standard controller ports but I dunno.

[Original9]

Just wait 3 months and get one from Bestbuy on Black Friday.

[mokeh]

You should try having the pay the prices they charge in the UK XD

[MetalMickey]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.
Except you'll need a memcard to save games or play on live, so thats another 40 or so right there, plus theres no backward compatability without the HDD

[ZenPirate]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.

Is there a difference on the actual console between the one that comes with a wireless controller and the one that comes with a wired controller?

I assume they both have standard controller ports but I dunno.


No, I want the hard drive model. I will end up going to the store for one, but the sticker shock is just a bit brutal, no? I wonder how many preorders they will actually get. I mean, jeez, the 46" hidef toshiba I'm looking at isn't too much more than the xbox360 bundle :D

[MetalMickey]

Plus, when they crack this baby a year down the line you will be tossing your 100 dollar 20GB HD in the bin!

[JaFO]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.

Is there a difference on the actual console between the one that comes with a wireless controller and the one that comes with a wired controller?

I assume they both have standard controller ports but I dunno.
The 'premium' is supposed to have 'chrome' edges.

//
I doubt that a hacked version will give you access to harddrives that are cheap.
They're using 2.5" drives in there and those things are not exactly cheap (yet).
Perhaps the best chance they've got is somehow enabling write-access for usb-based devices, because that appears to be disabled ...

[BesigedB]

Wait a couple of months and don't get burned by launch day prices. Consoles plummet in price after they've successfully sponged the rich for all they're worth.

[Zarkazm]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.
I'm not trying to push you into the high cost option, I'm confident that the average Penny Arcade reader has been making sound, informed console buying decisions for as many as twenty years. I'm trying to say that their low cost option doesn't actually exist.I'm with Tycho. Except for buying it nonetheless, of course.

[tool]

This comes out a few days before my birthday supposely, but i'm gonna be getting a Sony PSP, it'll be a way cooler dealer then the xbox 360, and just wait nine months or so before getting my xbox 360.

[Dragon_Myr]

Lol, EBgames sucks. I'd rather shop at Walmart and I hate Walmart a lot. Out of 5 orders I've placed to their website 3 of them got incorrectly charged or sent in rediculous directions before arriving to me. 3 strikes, you're out, EB.

Consoles are too expensive. It was cheaper for me to perform a slight upgrade to my laptop than it is to buy a console. What a rip off and you can't even mod these console games. $50 is too much for them. Maybe I'll think about it a year from now after the prices come down, but honestly I rarely ever play my PS2 and never bothered to buy any of the other systems for myself.

[JaFO]

hmmm ... spending 200+ on a new graphicscard, an additional 300+ for my cpu-upgrade and praying that the latest games will run next year.
Or spend 400+ on a console and be sure that I can play new games for 2-4 years.

Easy choice ... pc-gaming is far too expensive considering the number of games I've bought vs the cost of the hardware.

[O.S.T]

excuse me, but you're getting perfect dark zero, DoA4, project gotham racing 3 and some stuff, sounds good to me(yeah, the price is too high, but I'm the person who prefers to wait half a year and buy it cheaper)
I would get it, but for the next year I'll spend all my money on a parker nitefly mojo flame and try to save enough money for a mesa boogie

[GotBeer?]

What about the $399 system?:
Xbox 360 - $399 (399 Euros, 279 GBP)
•Xbox 360 console
•20GB detachable hard drive
•Wireless controller
•Wireless Xbox Live headset
•High-definition AV cables
•Ethernet cable
•Xbox 360 Media Remote Control (limited time)
•Detachable faceplate
•Xbox Live Silver membership

[Cap'n Beeb]

What a rip off and you can't even mod these console games.

You can, actually. It's not as easy as modding a PC game, but it's very possible.

[TossMonkey]

I don't think I will be buying an xbox360 on the launch. No gears of war, no UT2007, no ninja gaiden, no halo 3. Why would I bother?

I may get a PSP though, hopefully once I have the cash.

[Daedalus]

I never buy anything near a launch. I alawys wait a year or two before I make a purchase because everything is same as it was one or two years ago, but maybe $100 or so less. not to mention what a lot of people have said about launch titles.

EDIT: and don't be hating on EBGames damnit they're a hell of a lot better than Gamestop (Even though gamestop owns them or something) Their used games section is the sh!t. I mean, where else can I get XIII for $4 as well as various other fairly new titles at throwaway prices? Not at Gamestop.

[Twisted Metal]

You can, actually. It's not as easy as modding a PC game, but it's very possible.

Simple mods yeah, like gameshark cheats. ;)

But as far as new content like user created maps and ability to import new 3d models, pretty much no game supports that, even the Unreal engine powered Unreal Championship 2.

[Cap'n Beeb]

Simple mods yeah, like gameshark cheats. ;)

But as far as new content like user created maps and ability to import new 3d models, pretty much no game supports that, even the Unreal engine powered Unreal Championship 2.

That's odd. San Andreas on the Xbox allows you to replace cars and such.

[JaFO]

Never mind that Pariah had a map-editor ... not as advanced as UnrealEd and pretty limited, but it was there.

And there was Tony Hawks-games that had editors to built your own skatepark before pc's had the game AFAIK.
Forza that allows you to paint your entire ff-ing car with decals ...
PS2 has simple tracker-programs for mixing music AFAIK.

I'd say the chances of there being editors and similar items are greater as consoles become more powerful.

And really ... how many pc-games have decent editors ? The Unreal-series is still one of the few that consistently had a decent set of editors at release. For every other game you've still got to wait an eternity for a beta or rely on user-unfriendly hacks that can kill the game (if you're not careful).

[Iron Archer]

anyone seen the insanity that is the Gamestop Xbox 360 Bundles? (http://www.gamestop.com/productmerch.asp?groupid=310)

simply ludicrous

[Justin286]

I wonder what'll happen if it turns out that some of those games get cancelled? Would they do a partial refund or just say "screw you"?

[Airmoran]

from the gamestop page (ebgames has a similar statement):
GameStop.com reserves the right to substitute any given game in a bundle if that game becomes unavailable at launch. If this occurs, you will be notified and given the option of canceling your order before launch.

I'm convinced the "ultimate" package is only there to make the 700-900 bundles look mildly less horrific. :)

Either way, sweet jesus. And I thought the SNES was expensive at launch. All this only makes handhelds look more platable.

[Dragon_Myr]

anyone seen the insanity that is the Gamestop Xbox 360 Bundles? (http://www.gamestop.com/productmerch.asp?groupid=310)

simply ludicrousHoly ****, two of those are more expensive than it costed to make my desktop comp. :eek: I hope these systems flop when they first came out. It's time to send console makers a message that a PC alternative shouldn't cost as much as a PC. They're supposed to be cheaper. And buying bundles is a rip off. When you work it all out and include the cost of all the extras and such the price of a new console exceeds the price of my desktop comp. That's sad.

[TossMonkey]

These pricing pages are exactly the reason why console launches are never as big in America as they are in Japan or Europe. We advertise the prices usually 1 week before launch. The bundle prices seem very reasonable once you do the currency exchange, over here the machine is launching at £280, which works out at $500 for the real xbox360, not including games are £45 and £50 which equates to about $90. Deals with the machine over here are going to work out at way more than what you're going to pay, $800 for an xbox360 with 5 games? Seems about fair to me.

[JaFO]

Except for the "we'll screw you if we get a chance"-exceptions I don't see the real problem with those packages either.
I think you're kidding yourself if you thought that's not what you were going to buy within the space of a year after launch anyway.

btw :
I'd dare anyone to build a pc and include 5+ high-end games for those prices ...
I doubt you'd get something that could play them at the highest detail-settings even if you did manage.

[W0RF]

Let's see, $700 for an XBox with wireless controllers and games, or $200 for a Revolution with wireless controllers and games.

Enjoy your 600-times-more-powerful-than-xbox console, fellas.

[GotBeer?]

Neverminding the EXTREMELY high prices, I still can't believe consoles don't come packaged with 2 controllers anymore. I think my SNES system was probably the last time I saw that, and it was a special Super Mario package edition with '2 Controllers' listed as a feature.

I'm also curious about the package deals at Gamestop. The bundles don't seem to have the same equipment listed in MS' official XBox packages (like the one I listed earlier). Are they stripping out the harddrive, for example, and replacing it with a game and the 'play and recharge' kit? Rather have the more expensive storage, thanks. It looks like if you can find the $400 system and then buy whatever $60 games you want, you come out ahead. Oh, and don't forget the 2nd controller for $50!

Of course, I have no intention of buying a console from anybody, anyway.

[tool]

Well despite the prices, in the end the exclusive games and other crap will be the reason why i'll be willing to plop down the huge amount of case for all the next gen consoles. If you want it badly enough then you'll be willing to pay for it.

I hate the idea of missing out on great games. It confuses me when people say they love video games so much but yet they refuse to buy some console for whatever reason other then money issues.

[JaFO]

Let's see, $700 for an XBox with wireless controllers and games, or $200 for a Revolution with wireless controllers and games.

Enjoy your 600-times-more-powerful-than-xbox console, fellas.
the only problem being that (a) the 'Revolution' is just a phantom ... and (b) I doubt they've said anything about its cost ('tough I'm sure you'll correct me on that ;))

// ---

Both Gamestop & EB-packages have me wondering what kind of 360 they're actually selling. With the exceptions listed I wouldn't be too suprised if they sold the 'core'-package + games. They're definitely not making it crystal clear that it really is the 'Premium' or even the 'Core'-variant in there (perhaps they're planning on switching that bit as items get more 'rare' ?).
It's definitely something to be wary of.

[W0RF]

the only problem being that (a) the 'Revolution' is just a phantom ... and (b) I doubt they've said anything about its cost ('tough I'm sure you'll correct me on that )
Nope, no word, or I would have cited it. It's not due till next year so that's no surprise. But Nintendo's policy is to dance the line between powerful and cheap. That's why their Game Boys only had one speaker for the longest time, two speakers add $5 to the price or something. Plus, their price point is often one of their major selling points; they DID come out cheaper than the other systems last round, and considering the other consoles are like 5000 times more powerful than the previous and the Rev is only like 5 times more powerful or something like that, I can't imagine them justifying a huge price increase.

So yes, I'm going off 100% conjecture, but I'm also 100% certain you will not see ANY Nintendo bundle going for seven freaking hundred dollars. This crap didn't fly with Sony's last attempt at a media-center console (PSX) either.

disclaimer: price does not make a console better. I just refuse to spend $700 or even $400 to play video games. I have a computer for that, and last I checked, the XBox can't create unlimited custom content for its games, surf the web, manage my finances, or double as my music studio.

[GotBeer?]

Well despite the prices, in the end the exclusive games and other crap will be the reason why i'll be willing to plop down the huge amount of case for all the next gen consoles. If you want it badly enough then you'll be willing to pay for it.

I hate the idea of missing out on great games. It confuses me when people say they love video games so much but yet they refuse to buy some console for whatever reason other then money issues.ALL the next-gen consoles? Where do you people get the cash for this stuff? Overindulgent parents? Dealing pot from your basement/dorm/wherever? It's the same on the computer side of things. I don't know how many times I've seen forum threads (not necessarily here) where someone asks, "I want to replace the $400.00 GF6800GT I bought last month with a $600 GF7800GT because it's 2% faster. What brand should I get?"
Most of us in the real world, even those of us with decent jobs, have expenses like housing, food, transportation, insurance, 401k, and so on. The only guy I know in Real Lifetm with every console ever released is in his 20s, single, works for a major furniture/electronics retailer (employee discount!), and lives in his parents' basement eating their food for $50/month (he's the baby, and they don't want him to move out). I thought he was an aberration, was I wrong?

[tool]

Well in my case I don't have to worry about college, my parents have got that covered. So if I get a job I can spend the money on whatever I want. And that is how it has pretty much worked out. My expensive video game hobby is paid for out of my own pocket, so its not like i'm some spoiled brat or something.

[MetalMickey]

I put myself through college, you spoiled brat

[W0RF]

I put myself through college, you spoiled brat

[tool]

Good for you, try doing that in the United States, its almost impossible.

[Cap'n Beeb]

Worf lives in the US.

[tool]

I was talking about metalmickey

And just for the record, community college is cheap, but still not something someone could fund on their own with a minumal wage job that they would have to work part time.

My sister is going to a university this fall and her bill that arrived last week for just the fall sesmester came out to be $15,000.

Of course there is financial aid and loans and stuff, so its doable, but pretty much all your money goes towards college and just living.

[W0RF]

Welcome to Real Life, tool, where all your money goes towards "just living" on a daily basis, and people do not have the luxury of spending $1000 on three different consoles because they invest in their own education. Please keep your hands and arms inside the life until the life comes to a complete stop. No flash photography.

[tool]

okie dokie, I really don't get how having my college paid for means I know nothing about life, but whatever.

If you want to critize someone there are a few posters around here who are 20+, living with their parents still, havent gone to college yet, didnt do to well in highschool, and their mommy and daddy still buys them every new and awsome video game and movie out there.

I'm going to college, while trying to just live with having an incredibly painful disease that makes me very sick, and trying to find a job right now and just suck it up even though I really shouldnt because i'm so sick. My doctor says I shouldnt even be going to school right now. But i'm sucking it up and doing it because thats life and I have to get on with it, so I don't see where you get the idea you have the right to call me a spoiled brat.

[MetalMickey]

Of course there is financial aid and loans and stuff, so its doable, but pretty much all your money goes towards college and just living.
Well....yeah. People in college cant generally afford to spend money on games hardware, no matter where they live, which is the point people are making.

[W0RF]

okie dokie, I really don't get how having my college paid for means I know nothing about life, but whatever.
No one said you knew nothing about life, you just seem to treat the exorbitant cost of college like it's some kind of a surprise or anomaly. That's pretty much how life is ALWAYS going to be unless and until you're successful in a career field.
If you want to critize someone there are a few posters around here who are 20+, living with their parents still, havent gone to college yet, didnt do to well in highschool, and their mommy and daddy still buys them every new and awsome video game and movie out there.
Compared to college, video games (and movies) are a relatively minor investment. That's pretty much the point we've been making, and one that you yourself made by talking about how it's almost impossible to go to college in the US. Which is why we're unimpressed by your statement that your parents don't buy your VIDEO GAMES for you, like that's something to be proud of. Meanwhile, they are absorbing the cost where it counts.
etc etc etc so I don't see where you get the idea you have the right to call me a spoiled brat.
Well, now you're just adding a whole lot of arguments that have nothing to do with money, or how awesome you are for buying your own video games. Nobody here is unsympathetic to your other life problems (well, maybe a couple of them are), but everybody has those problems. My wife spends more hours a week in bed than at work, and she just had her health coverage dropped; I haven't had coverage for over a year now. This is currently my third attempt to get a college degree. It wasn't any easier for my dad, who had to work full-time and put himself through night school. If you polled 100 people on this board, I'm sure you'd get 100 stories right back about how life is hard for them. I sympathize but it's something we all deal with in one way or another, it's not like you're L'il (http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail109.html) Brudder (http://homestarrunner.com/lilbrudder.html) or anything.

I only used the term "spoiled brat" because that's the term you used. I can't speak for MM but I'm guessing he took the same tack. I'm sure, though, if you look really hard at your statement "I'M NOT SPOILED B/C I PAY FOR ALL MY OWN GAMES... in unrelated news, my parents put me through college," you'll see that the irony just leaves you wide open.

[tool]

All I am saying is calling someone a spoiled brat because their parents pay for their college is unfair. You sound like you are just jealous and bitter because I am lucky enough to have parents with the money to be able to do that. They could just as easily say "screw you pay for it yourself". And if I were to completely screw up on my classes in college they would say that, and they would have every right to say that. So don't think I think this for granted. Its not as simple as you make it out to be, thinking its just mommy and daddy throwing money away. Although most parents nowadays do that, so I get where you would assume this would be the case.

[Freon]

The state put me through college, you spoiled brats... oh wait :p

Anyway, the funny thing with the XBox prices is it's $399 in the USA... and €399 in Europe. Last time I checked, it's nearly 30% more expensive :o

[W0RF]

You sound like you are just jealous and bitter because I am lucky enough to have parents with the money to be able to do that.
Yeah, that's exactly it. My whole life, the only thing I wanted was to be exactly like you, and I'm so pissed that I can't.

My father is a very successful tax accountant/financial advisor with his own practice, and was very capable of helping me through college. So your "jealous" angle doesn't really hold any water.
Its not as simple as you make it out to be, thinking its just mommy and daddy throwing money away.
Who exactly said that? /me reads through the thread, sees nothing about people "throwing away" anything

Keep in mind, this discussion wasn't about who paid for your college, but who pays for your video games, a feat that still fails to impress anybody. Getting defensive about being called spoiled b/c of who buys your video games is kind of missing the forest for the trees. I doubt anyone would have even said anything if you hadn't gotten defensive about an otherwise trivial matter.

[tool]

I'm not trying to impress anyone, someone asked a question and I answered it honestly. But as usual, you, metalmickey, and I imagine the usual crowd of trolls will come flooding in later, have to find one little thing and pick it apart.

[W0RF]

All right, then. You go, Li'l Brudder. You can make it on your own.

[tool]

Wow way to go, proved once again what a worthless **** head you are.

[W0RF]

I think I've been more than fair to you in pointing out a very basic irony, I've acknowledged nearly all of your points, been sympthetic to your problems, and tried to bring it back down to earth, and you just go on making up stuff about people being jealous and saying your parents throw away their money and saying you know nothing about life, and top it off with your classic spate of name-calling. Class act, buddy, makes me feel really good about trying to see the world through your eyes.

[O.S.T]

oh ****, I've been to slow
worf, why don't you shut up for once? if you notice that someone doesn't appreceate your answer, don't click on "post reply" and don't write another long post, which just adds to the drama?
it's an internet message board for god's sake, you don't have to be right or win all the time, in the end no one cares
if you don't answer, you could stop the drama

and tool knows already what he shouldn't do, everyone has said it often enough to him :)

[tool]

I think I've been more than fair to you in pointing out a very basic irony, I've acknowledged nearly all of your points, been sympthetic to your problems, and tried to bring it back down to earth, and you just go on making up stuff about people being jealous and saying your parents throw away their money and saying you know nothing about life, and top it off with your classic spate of name-calling. Class act, buddy, makes me feel really good about trying to see the world through your eyes.

Well if you think its irony you are wrong. All I was doing was pointing out to Gotbeer? that I don't have everything handed to me. You of course blow it way out of proportion (like you always do) and make it into something bigger then it really is.

He asked everyone a simple question and I answered, no need to go starting drama over it. If you want to find a target to troll go find one of the people I talked about on this very forum who get everything handed to them. I mean damn is El Diablo still here? He has no problem bragging about how his parents bought him a porshe 911.

[MetalMickey]

Tool, even though are you are a spoiled brat, I will share a trick with you:-

http://www.iol.ie/~linux/misc/ignore.jpg
This will make browsing BuF far more pleasant.

Best of luck with college, I just hope you realise how lucky you are to have it paid for. I had to work a 40 hour week on top of a 35 hour college week to get my degree, and I am indeed bitter. Bitter and tired. ;)

[tool]

Tool, even though are you are a spoiled brat, I will share a trick with you:-

http://www.iol.ie/~linux/misc/ignore.jpg
This will make browsing BuF far more pleasant.

Best of luck with college, I just hope you realise how lucky you are to have it paid for. I had to work a 40 hour week on top of a 35 hour college week to get my degree, and I am indeed bitter. Bitter and tired. ;)

Well it is just that since my parents are paying for it, if my dad wanted for example to make me go out and rape a goat, I pretty much have to do it. Take goat and replace it with something unpleasant though. ;)

and besides worf on ignore? thats no fun! :D

[MetalMickey]

It might not be fun, but after like 5 years of that douchebag, it becomes necessary to maintain some level of sanity, as well as keeping blood-pressure away from near-fatal levels.

[W0RF]

Don't like it when people don't just bend over and take it from you, huh, MM? Can't say I'll miss you trolling my posts.

[shoptroll]

Let's see, $700 for an XBox with wireless controllers and games, or $200 for a Revolution with wireless controllers and games.

Enjoy your 600-times-more-powerful-than-xbox console, fellas.

I'm with W0RF on this one. The only stuff I've cared about on XBox so far has been Fable, Kotor1+2, UC2 and Jade Empire. 3 of the 5 are out (or soon coming out) for PC, and I'm hoping for JE on PC at some point. UC2 maybe if people can get everything pulled out of there (aside from Raiden due to IP issues).

XBox360 went right under the radar once Epic let it slip that GoW would be on PC after the XBox360 version (with some exclusive content probably). The pricing is still ludicrous.

PS3 took a nosedive once I saw the controllers, and went further once people figured out that backwards compatibility was going to be a joke. As in, how the hell am I to play my PS2/PS1 backlog on my PS3 when it only supports Mem Card Duo?

Provided Nintendo's controller doesn't bite and its reasonably priced ($200 sounds quite fair) I'm all for getting down with Mario & Co. while getting legit ROMS wirelessly to play. And hopefully Nintendo's finally learned from the schooling they've been getting over the last two years (although Gamecube almost fixed all the ills of the 64 I thought).

[W0RF]

Even if you're not fond of the Revolution controller, there are ports for the Cube controller built in, and hopefully many standard games will work with your Wavebird.

[Bean316]

This thread took a funny turn. With regards to the tool "spoiled thing"... I mean, I've been on my own since I finished high school, I'm putting myself through a major university, working 30+ hours a week, doing research, doing a real major (not some ***** English lit shiat), in the honors program, and acing my classes. Comparatively, I'm crushing you. But that's no problem. You have to think to yourself, tool, is it necessary that you have to say that you don't think you are spoiled because you pay for your own luxuries? I understand if you are just thinking it to yourself, it may be OK, but if you put it in the context of the situation, knowing other forumers work very hard for what they have, it didn't seem a little ridiculous to you that you said you aren't spoiled because of that? Not trying to get on you man, just...realize being unspoiled doesn't mean you buy your own videogames.

All that being said, I'm a pretty big sucker for buying console/PC stuff. I'd say most of my money goes there realistically. That all being said, I save almost all my money. I own my car, and rent is cheap, and my roomie is good with sharing resources, so I am able to save. Even then, I can't imagine anyone realistically buying that godforsaken $1100+ bundle from GameStop...

[shoptroll]

Even if you're not fond of the Revolution controller, there are ports for the Cube controller built in, and hopefully many standard games will work with your Wavebird.

Well considering that the GC controller was a lot closer to the SNES one in overall layout than the N64 (it would've been perfect if they didn't have the Z button awkwardly placed... makes SSB:M rough to play), I've got a large amount of hope that the Revolution will pull something off gracefully.

[MÆST]

I bet he has to pay for his own alcohol and weed too. ;)

[tool]

This thread took a funny turn. With regards to the tool "spoiled thing"... I mean, I've been on my own since I finished high school, I'm putting myself through a major university, working 30+ hours a week, doing research, doing a real major (not some ***** English lit shiat), in the honors program, and acing my classes. Comparatively, I'm crushing you. But that's no problem. You have to think to yourself, tool, is it necessary that you have to say that you don't think you are spoiled because you pay for your own luxuries? I understand if you are just thinking it to yourself, it may be OK, but if you put it in the context of the situation, knowing other forumers work very hard for what they have, it didn't seem a little ridiculous to you that you said you aren't spoiled because of that? Not trying to get on you man, just...realize being unspoiled doesn't mean you buy your own videogames.

All that being said, I'm a pretty big sucker for buying console/PC stuff. I'd say most of my money goes there realistically. That all being said, I save almost all my money. I own my car, and rent is cheap, and my roomie is good with sharing resources, so I am able to save. Even then, I can't imagine anyone realistically buying that godforsaken $1100+ bundle from GameStop...

I see what you mean. It is just that i've always grown up being taught having things you want bought for you is bad, and should be rarely done. It makes you rely on other people and makes you lazy. So for someone to tell me that i'm spoiled was just a huge slap in the face to me. And I have always been taught that if you are working or going to school when you turn 18 then you are doing good. You should atleast be doing something constructive with your life. You don't need to be working 40+ hour weeks on the side aswell and pushing yourself hard, you just need to be doing something, and that is pretty much either college or work, both are constructive and good for you.

So I just didn't want to be thought of as spoiled. Really I should have just kept my mouth shut to GotBeer?'s question. That was a drama filled question to begin with.

[Breadtruck]

ok so obviously u didnt see the prices right zenpirate? i saw it w/ wired stuff for like 200$ and wirelss and all the other stuff 300$ or sumpthin

[tool]

I bet he has to pay for his own alcohol and weed too. ;)

I think the mexican family that lives under the apartment room I live in makes and sells weed. I'll have to get in on their little trade thing and make some money on the side. ;)

[JaFO]

Nope, no word, or I would have cited it. It's not due till next year so that's no surprise. But Nintendo's policy is to dance the line between powerful and cheap. That's why their Game Boys only had one speaker for the longest time, two speakers add $5 to the price or something. Plus, their price point is often one of their major selling points; they DID come out cheaper than the other systems last round, and considering the other consoles are like 5000 times more powerful than the previous and the Rev is only like 5 times more powerful or something like that, I can't imagine them justifying a huge price increase.

So yes, I'm going off 100% conjecture, but I'm also 100% certain you will not see ANY Nintendo bundle going for seven freaking hundred dollars. This crap didn't fly with Sony's last attempt at a media-center console (PSX) either.

I'd agree that given past record there's a good chance it will be cheap compared to whatever the 360 & PS3 end up costing to be useful.

It didn't "fly" with Sony's last attempt because they didn't sell the damned thing anywhere. And from what I've heard they even tried to sell it in shops that had high-end multimedia. The kind that made the PSX look like a cheap toy ... so nope.

The 360 is selling at a pricepoint that isn't that bad if you consider it's features.


[size=1]disclaimer: price does not make a console better. I just refuse to spend $700 or even $400 to play video games. I have a computer for that, and last I checked, the XBox can't create unlimited custom content for its games,

I guess you've completely ignored the fact that I've listed a few games that do allow 'unlimited custom content'.
I'll add another : Midnight Club 3 ... gives gamers the option of designing their own racetracks. Sure ... they're just a bunch of checkpoints in a fixed environment, but how many pc-games do you own that have custom content that is worth the trouble ?
Even the UT-series has only a few mods that are worht it. And on top of that I don't have the time to waste on installing a bugridden half-arsed mod when I can play a game that is fully functional.

Quantity != Quality ...

On top of that I've become sick and tired of all the hoops that pc-games force you to jump through.
First there's the hardware that jumps pretty much every year.
Then there's worrying about having the right drivers ...
and then there's the ff-ing copy-'protection' which means that even if you've got the right hardware the game could still refuse to play.

Now you may want to spend € 1000+ on hardware and deal with those kinds of 'features', but I don't.

I know that after spending 600 on the 360 or whatever console I can be sure that the games I do buy will work. In fact ... I don't even need to wait a damned minute before I can start playing.
And on top of that I know that in 2 years I can still buy the latest 360-game and be sure it will play.
Unlike the pc-games that are being released next month which are making my €300 graphicscard feel the pressure.

Oh ... and as to how I can afford a pc and 3+ consoles ?
Simple ... those are the only hobbies I've got.
I've got no mortgage or car to waste hundreds of Euro's on each month either. It pretty much makes it possible to do what I do.

I can literally afford to buy at least two full price console-games each week (if I wanted to, but I don't) and still have money left to eat. And I'm not even *that* rich (a mere € 30k / year).

my pc is 2-3 years old by now. It does all I want it to and I'm not even considering upgrading until I see some decent pc-games, which I might want t o bother with. And from what I've seen there's not yet anything that makes it worth spending the €800+ I'd need to get them running.

my consoles are the same age and I can still buy new games without having to worry about anything.

Back to the 360 ... I've been looking into buying something like the Philips Streamium SL400i, which retails at +/- €300. So compared to that the 360 is cheap. At a mere €100 extra I get a harddisk and the ability to play a few games. Something I can't do with my pc as is unless I spent at least twice that mount.

[W0RF]

On top of that I've become sick and tired of all the hoops that pc-games force you to jump through.
First there's the hardware that jumps pretty much every year.
my pc is 2-3 years old by now. It does all I want it to and I'm not even considering upgrading until I see some decent pc-games, which I might want t o bother with.
conflicting statements?
I guess you've completely ignored the fact that I've listed a few games that do allow 'unlimited custom content'.
Didn't ignore it. Just seem to have a different idea of the scale of customizability on console games.

[JaFO]

So ... how many custom-features did you actually use yourself ?
ie : not downloading something someone else made, but real DIY stuff ?
How many maps did you make for say ... Splintercell or the entire UT-series ?

The Xbox didn't have an editor for Splintercell (and neither did the pc IIRC), but it did have new content that was available after release ...
Halo & Halo 2 ... ditto.
Sure, some of these extensions cost money, but given that they were bugfree and would play I'd say that isn't quite so bad compared to searching through thousands of horrible & crappy maps/add-ons in the hope of finding a few that are worth having.

And from what I've seen of some of the new games for the 360 (Testdrive unlimited is said to feature new cars after release) they seem to be increasing that part. I wouldn't be too suprised if the difference between the average pc-game and next-gen console-game is the fact that you might have to pay a few credits for the latter while pc-addons remain free (then again ... Bioware is selling modules for NWN, so things might change) .

[W0RF]

You seem to be lumping in user-created custom material with expansion packs released by the company. :con:

[ZenPirate]

OK... OK, so ebgames can still kiss my ass, but I went and preordered a $399 xbox360 and Oblivion from Gamestop during lunch today. I'm such a sucker for marketing

[tool]

I'm going to get oblivion for the PC, it comes out a few days before the xbox 360 version.

I am tempted to do the gamestop $2,000 xbox 360 deal. If I do that I want someone to please kill me for being a fool ok? There is no guarrentee you will even get all the games it lists. Some of those titles aren't confirmed Xbox 360 launch titles.

[GotBeer?]

So I just didn't want to be thought of as spoiled. Really I should have just kept my mouth shut to GotBeer?'s question. That was a drama filled question to begin with.Yep, I'm all about the drama :)

I go away for a long weekend and come back to this. I really didn't mean to create a 1 1/2 page threadjack...really.

Jafo has a point about pc vs console. It would be nice to be able to hit the power button and go straight into a game, like my old SNES (the last console I purchased). Or not have to worry that the buggy OS might crash, or whether or not my rig can run the game at decent fps after compromising on performance and spending "only" $1000. But I still prefer the control and higher res and available mods that come with the pc, not to mention all of the other tasks a pc can perform that a console can't.

I don't know, I might buy a console in a few years (whatever/whenever the next-gen will be), when I can justify it by saying I'm buying it for the kid (she's only 6mos right now), like my Dad did when the Atari 2600 came out (he even bought an expensive-in-the-70's 21" color TV to play it on, and made us watch him play Asteroids for like 2hrs before he gave up control of the joystick!) Yep, it's all about being a good father and making my daughter happy! :D

[W0RF]

Well, tool's ready to drop 2 large for the ultra-mega-super Xbox combo from Gamestop, effectively nullifying the "pc's cost more" argument.

However, you're right about load times. I loathe them. That's one reason I like my Cube, is that load times are virtually non-existent. I also like the pre-loading scheme that Dungeon Siege uses to make the world appear seamless.

Then of course, there's the ultimate irony of dropping the big caysh for either a PC OR a console and then using it to play 20-year-old games on an emulator. :D

[tool]

I was just kidding, there is no way in hell I would drop $2,000 for that Xbox 360 deal. 1.) there is no promise you will get all the stuff it lists on launch day, and 2.) no matter how much money you put down there is no promise you even get a xbox 360 on launch day. You could end up waiting into next year, be out $2,000 and not even get all the games listed that it says you will get.

[W0RF]

(memo to Tool, the point was, console vs pc is no longer a $200 vs $2000 argument. That is still true even if you never buy another video game ever again. It just happens that you were the one who mentioned it just a couple posts ago.)

Which of course brings me to something else to make tongue-in-cheek remarks about. What's the point in pre-ordering something if you're not even guaranteed to get it? Isn't that the whole point of pre-ordering? You see, you know how to take the reservation, you just don't know how to hold the reservation. And that's really the most important part of the reservation: the holding. Anybody can just take them.
http://www.caesars.com/NR/rdonlyres/A87CE5F0-1F90-46D8-9523-C900ABEE2E8D/0/clv_jerryseinfeld04_150x150.jpg

Gamestop officially sucks. More.

[tool]

Yes I know what the point of pre-ordering is, but thats not how it usually works. If you pre-order a real popular game from gamestop or ebgames, then chances are you won't be getting it on release day. Doing game consoles is an even more horrible idea, and I imagine the Xbox 360 is going to be a huge cluster**** until after Christmas.

Putting all my excitment about the xbox 360 into reality check mode, I am most likely to wait until Janurary 2006 or so before getting my xbox 360, assuming I even have the money which I most likely won't.

ooh and PCs still cost more because the games don't factor into the overall price. The $2,000 xbox 360 deal comes with every "known" xbox 360 launch title, but that doesnt mean its more expensive then a PC, it just costs a lot because of the games. Which some aren't even really offically launch titles because they aren't even done yet.

[Israphel]

Can't be bothered to re-read the whole thread, so sorry if this has come up before.

I gave up on console gaming around 2 and a half years ago when I got into playing online big-time and stopped finding single player games interesting...so I'm a little out of the loop regarding consoles and stuff.

So I was out last night with a mate who I've been trying to get into online gaming for years and he was never interested, claiming that it must be crap playing against people who you don't know...

..So he goes back to visit his family and friends in England this summer and comes back like a born again Christian raving about multiplayer (he'd been LAN-ing Halo 2) and how the Xbox 360 was going to be the future of gaming cos it was totally designed for online play, which was of course the future of gaming, and he's got his pre-order in already.

So at first I'm staring at him open mouthed, as you do when someone finally "discovers" something you've been waving infront of their nose for years, then I pointed out that the Xbox 360 was just juming into a lucrative online gaming market that had existed for years on computers. Now, I won't bore you with the details of our keyboard/mouse versus controllor for fps games argument ("Honestly, of course a controller is better for aiming 'cos it's been DESIGNED for games....duh!!!" Yeah, so why do people use a mouse for navigating around any computer application and not a controller? Answer, cos NOTHING puts a curser (or crosshair) exactly where you want it as fast and accurately as a goddam mouse does.)

Anyways, so his argument to trump me was: For "just" 30 quid a month you get access to xbox live, which means you can play against others online and you get "free" (how can they be free if you're paying for them) downloads like new maps and content.

Again, my mouth had fallen open here, and he just muttered "its not the same though" when I pointed out that playing on computers you got that for free, and companies like Epic gave you top quality additional content for nothing, as well as the numerous high quality community packs.

So, (finally we reach the point, but I just love a narrative), what I wanted to know is, is this true?
Do you have to pay extra ON TOP of your regular internet fee just to play xbox live?
And if so, don't people think that this is bull****?

In this thread I've read a lot about people saying what the "real" cost of console gaming is, but what about the cost of playing them online. It equates to the price of the console itself every year.

Perhaps I'd heard wrong (a fair bit of sangria had been consumed by this point and my memory is a little hazy)..if so, then fair enough.

I had been wondering about what to do next year as I really want to play UT2007 but will have to shell out a fair bit in upgrades. I was tempted by consoles because I thought they were cheaper than the upgrades, but put off by the fact that I only really want to play fps games and HATE controllers with a passion.
But if it's the case that you have to pay to play online, then consoles don't even have the price advantage.

EDIT: Ooh...700th post!! I'm starting to feel like a regular.

[tool]

Well the bottom line is that if you want it badly enough then you will be willing to pay for it.

[Israphel]

Well the bottom line is that if you want it badly enough then you will be willing to pay for it.

Well that's a self-evident answer.
That seems to be microsoft's philosophy. Personally, like many people here I have a mortgage, bills, food etc to pay for out of my salary, and while I live pretty well, I'm simply not willing to pay 35 euros a month for my interent connection and then another 45 euros (30 pounds) for the pleasure of playing online...something I can do now without extra cost.

It's called "taking the p1ss"

EDIT: The paying for college thing...I graduated from University when I was 22 and finally finished paying for it when I was 28....it's the British way where going to University and getting a degree takes 3/4 years, but paying for it takes at least 10

[tool]

Then your philosophy is the same as micrsofts. You aren't willing to pay for it because you got more important things to pay for and worry about. I'm not willing to pay for xbox live either. Like you pointed out, you can do the samething on the PC for free. So its stupid unless its a MMORPG. Microsoft has been provinding a free gaming service for over a decade now on the PC, I dont get why they would start charging for a service on the xbox. Its stupid.

You of course shouldnt be going out of your way to skip out on mortages, bills, food, etc to play video games. Gaming is a luxury and if you can afford it then cool. Just put a little money aside each month and save up for some real awsome video game console or game, you'll eventually get what you want.

[W0RF]

Yes I know what the point of pre-ordering is, but thats not how it usually works.
I know YOU know how it works... what I'm saying is:
If you pre-order a real popular game from gamestop or ebgames, then chances are you won't be getting it on release day.
THEY don't know how it works. The above paragraph was a reference to Seinfeld when he shows up for a car he reserved and it's not there. I had hoped that throwing on a picture of Seinfeld and adding on the caveat that "Gamestop sucks" would have been enough to demonstrate that I was referring to Gamestop and their inability to grasp the concept of pre-ordering.
ooh and PCs still cost more because the games don't factor into the overall price.
20 games at $50 apiece is still only half the price of the console. And like israphel said, if you want the premium content you have to pay for it. ON TOP of your normal Internet fees. And even giving the benefit of the doubt on ALL these factors, it still isn't the huge gap that used to exist as recently as the current gen console launch.
In this thread I've read a lot about people saying what the "real" cost of console gaming is, but what about the cost of playing them online. It equates to the price of the console itself every year.
Revolution's online component is reported to be at no additional cost \o/

[Kantham]

You know you don't have to get the bundle, you can just get a standard Xbox 360 with a wired controller for $299 and a game for $50.

That's what i thought. I would jump on perfect dark first, But 50 Bucks for a game that is pretty new is not common in the world of buying.

[tool]

Xbox 360 games are $60 by the way :(

And if that doesn't piss you off, playstation 3 games are rumored to be $75 because they will all be on blu-ray.

[Kantham]

If they are 60 $ US cash, they are 85 Can here and +

Kind of painfull when it comes to get a bunch of these, some prefert to use them with scratches on cd and buy their games at video store(s). They cost less, but the quality is probably not as new.

The problem with that is that you have to wait around 2 month for the game to be old enough. Then they start to sell it. It's a race.

And some games can be finished after a rent of 2-3 days. These don't worth buying.

[W0RF]

And if that doesn't piss you off, playstation 3 games are rumored to be $75 because they will all be on blu-ray.
Well, Sony is pushing the Blu-Ray so they can make it the new standard after DVD, and unfortunately, PS3 owners will be paying the price. It will be interesting to see if that format wins out over HD-DVD.

[tool]

I think gamefly might end up having some great business when the xbox360 comes around. I've had great experiences with buying used games from them. Their games aren't even used, they have always been in brand new condition and dirt cheap.

[Twisted Metal]

"I want to replace the $400.00 GF6800GT I bought last month with a $600 GF7800GT because it's 2% faster.

Umm, I know you were just making an example, but the 7800 GT is probably at least double the speed of a 6800 GT...

[JaFO]

Well that's a self-evident answer.
That seems to be microsoft's philosophy. Personally, like many people here I have a mortgage, bills, food etc to pay for out of my salary, and while I live pretty well, I'm simply not willing to pay 35 euros a month for my interent connection and then another 45 euros (30 pounds) for the pleasure of playing online...something I can do now without extra cost.
...

It is 45 Euro / *year* (so it's less than the cost of your average magazine subscription-dealy) ...
The leaked brochures seem to confirm that there will be something like gamecards for Live! so you won't be forced to use a creditcard to play online (or buy crap at their webshop).

The next-gen Live! will have 2 variants :
- 'Silver' : free, used for updates and probably to spam the living daylights out of you for any of the 'premium' content (not sure, but that's what I'd do if I were MS)

- 'Gold' : the current Live!-variant which gives access to all on-line games.

Altough what they don't mention (as much) is that the new Xbox will give you access to a market-place. Which means that for 0$ per year you get to visit an on-line webshop that is exclusive to Live!. It also has something like Apple's iTunes-store for music. The problem however is that MS will prevent you from sharing or making backups of anything you download as the 360 only has read-access to external devices. (ie : if you thought iTunes was bad ... wait until you see what MS is planning to do). It is one of the less fun aspects of Live! I'd say ...

Live! is probably better compared to the subscription for Fileplanet and similar on-line 'services'.

PC's may give you 'free' access to the internet, but it isn't quite as organised as the Live!-variants.
Except for Gamespy's Arcade (or whatever that server-adbrowser is called) There is nothing even remotely similar to Live!-service for pc's.

I've heard unconfirmed rumours that 'Silver'-users will have limited access to on-line games (probably during weekends and such), which seems reasonable because how would anyone convince silver-users to upgrade to 'gold' ???

[Plumb_Drumb]

In this thread I've read a lot about people saying what the "real" cost of console gaming is, but what about the cost of playing them online. It equates to the price of the console itself every year.


And what about playing the games in their full res glory?
There goes at least another grand for a HDTV, if you don't already have one.

(cause with all this connectivity, I still don't see any consoles giving ports for PC monitors or anything, though I realize there may be resolution compatibility problems there... but then again, you'd think they could work that out too)

[ZenPirate]

Xbox 360 games are $60 by the way :(

And if that doesn't piss you off, playstation 3 games are rumored to be $75 because they will all be on blu-ray.



Sony has never said anything about using bluray for game media. All the "hardcore" gaming geeks just *assumed* they would. You'll see ps3 as Sony's trojan horse to get bluray movie format in households, while games stay on traditional DVD media to keep production costs down.

[Israphel]

It is 45 Euro / *year* (so it's less than the cost of your average magazine subscription-dealy)

Ah, fair enough. My mistake.
As I said, I had drunk a fair bit of sangria and wondered if I heard it right.

And what about playing the games in their full res glory?
There goes at least another grand for a HDTV, if you don't already have one.

Good point, my TV is crap compared with my apple monitor...I mean it's playable but ther difference is huge. Not being able to use keyboard/mouse is still a major drawback for me though.

[GotBeer?]

Umm, I know you were just making an example, but the 7800 GT is probably at least double the speed of a 6800 GT...Yes, it was just an example. I probably should have gone 6600 -> 6800. As it is, you made me go to HardOCP and check performance differences, thankyou very little. ;)

Doom3 1600x1200 noAA/8xAF
6800GT 56.8 avg fps
7800GT OC 58 avg fps (only found overclocked edition reviewed)
Difference = 2.125% or thereabouts, so I'm close

HalfLife2 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF
6800GT 86.4 avg fps
7800GT OC 99.1 avg fps
Difference = 14.7%, but still not double

Of course, as you go on resolutions on the 6800GT have to be dropped below what they test the 7800GT at, so it gets harder to compare, but the fps stays about equal with the 7800GT still at 1600x1200 and the 6800GT dropping to 1280x1024 or 1280x960. Now leave me alone! :D

[tool]

Those numbers make me feel alot better about the next gen games coming out.

[GotBeer?]

Those numbers make me feel alot better about the next gen games coming out.And I didn't even post prices!