PDA

View Full Version : UT2k7 - destructable environments


Hashassin
11th Jul 2005, 04:15 AM
I've been playing unreal since the original- and I am very pleased to hear that there is a new UT under works. One aspect that I believe has been missing in many a FPS is "destructable environments". Obviously previous technologies haven't allowed for such extravagant ideas, but now that they are, I just can't wait. I adore the idea of shooting some rockets at an overhang only to create a mini-avalanche which would squish any unsuspecting victims, or blowing a hole in a wall to open up a new entrance on an enemy base.. I mean the weapons in unreal are so high-powered, it would be nice to see them seriously affect the surrounding environments..

However what I would like to see is a much more lethal environment, impact hammering someone stomach first into a spike on a wall.. or better yet, a bed of spikes, a meat grinder, massive cogs.. the list goes on and on, and knowing the imagination of the Unreal team, who knows what they can come up with. With this idea I would like to have the ability to blow a hole in the floor or wall to open up entirely new areas, fitted with numerous booby traps, designed to kill. Epic could easily borrow some ideas from Midway's Mortal Kombat: Deception (although a poor fighter, some of the concept were brill imho), smashing someone through a wall, and then have them land in some crazy metal pressing machine.. Imagine yourself on one of those outerspace stations, smashing a hole in the roof to expose the "universe", creating a vacuum, which can suck your enemies out into the void.. Or maybe some "alive" environments- blowing a hole in the floor to reveal some ancient dragon den, equipped with its very own fire breathing motherF8cker that wants YOU for dinner.. If the environment can be your enemy, then it can also be you greatest asset to victory..

what do you think?

Olga
11th Jul 2005, 05:31 AM
I'd like destructable environments, but as in some preset little events that trigger full/partial destruction of the said thing, so you can't just put ditches everywhere. This way in Onslaught/Conquest a long battle would produce a really realistically warlike transition from the fine setting it is to a really messy graveyard.

kafros
11th Jul 2005, 10:39 AM
destructable environments can provide unlimited fun but for single player experience only. Getting constantly stuck somewhere because of debris must be too annoying in multiplayer.

spineblaZe
11th Jul 2005, 05:10 PM
Self pimpage!:D
http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/128_1.php

BeyondUnreal: How will the enchanced physics impact the gameplay of modes such as Conquest and Onslaught, and will the ability to interact with objects and the environment be utilized in other gametypes such as DM and CTF?

Steve Polge: That will definately depend on a per-level basis. Like we'll have, for example, a few levels where we really go crazy with destructable environments and kind of make that the focus of the level. For the most part the thing is that [destructable environments] can really effect gameplay kind of in a way that's out of the control of the design of the game, where you basically don't want to end up in a pile of rubble that you're playing over. However, we will certainly have damageable environments. I say the biggest area the physics effects us is things like the vehicles and other physical objects. Vehicles and physics are much more complex and realistic than they were in 2k4. In 2k4 the tank kind of felt like you were pushing a box around. Now it really feels like a tank: The treads deform as you're going over terrain and it all just feels very solid and much more natural to drive. We will also have what we call "damageable environments" everywhere, which means that you'll see the effects, so it will be more than just a decal or a blotch, you'll actually see some 3D effects to it when you inflict major damage. How much of that we allow to be gameplay focused, like I said, will probably be a per level basis. So we might have like a deathmatch level where it's really all about, you know, blowing up the catwalk so the guy falls to his death and that kind of thing, but we'll also have some more traditional gameplay.

spineblaZe
11th Jul 2005, 05:14 PM
However what I would like to see is a much more lethal environment, impact hammering someone stomach first into a spike on a wall.. or better yet, a bed of spikes, a meat grinder, massive cogs.. the list goes on and on, and knowing the imagination of the Unreal team, who knows what they can come up with. With this idea I would like to have the ability to blow a hole in the floor or wall to open up entirely new areas, fitted with numerous booby traps, designed to kill. Epic could easily borrow some ideas from Midway's Mortal Kombat: Deception (although a poor fighter, some of the concept were brill imho), smashing someone through a wall, and then have them land in some crazy metal pressing machine.. Imagine yourself on one of those outerspace stations, smashing a hole in the roof to expose the "universe", creating a vacuum, which can suck your enemies out into the void.. Or maybe some "alive" environments- blowing a hole in the floor to reveal some ancient dragon den, equipped with its very own fire breathing motherF8cker that wants YOU for dinner.. If the environment can be your enemy, then it can also be you greatest asset to victory..

what do you think?
I really like the idea of more level hazards. The occasional lavapit or goopit could really be expanded on. The more creative ways to kill your opponent the better. :D

Oh, and bring back longler lasting gibs and blood stains! :o

Hashassin
12th Jul 2005, 02:25 AM
Oh, and bring back longler lasting gibs and blood stains! :o

Yeah, i agree, computers these days are powerful enough to keep decals, gibs and bodies. By the end of a DM round there should be bits and pieces of people everywhere, or maybe im just a bit too gore enthused :D

EL BOURIKO
12th Jul 2005, 04:15 AM
I would really like to experience such things in a much more serious way than only barrel explosions.

Of course some destroyed maps can become really messy after a while, but the real fun here, is that you will never have twice the same map after some few minutes!!!
And if you get stuck because of some destructions, hey! that s just part of the game... and you still can suicide with your hammer to come back on the pitch.

Olga
12th Jul 2005, 05:47 AM
Or the map designers can be smart and make counters to the possibility of getting stuck in destructo map.

gregori
14th Jul 2005, 08:19 AM
maybe your base regenrated damage done to it over time in conquest, or the more the points of the map you control regenrate depending on your share of tarydium resources.

Anyway destructable maps could have interesting strategical uses in conquest, like driving a goliath through a building front in a city map to get some where quicker,
or colapsing sniper towers/scaffolding and building were snipers are about,
or using the rubble from a colapsed building to block a road, knocking over a tree to bridge a forest gorge, raising the water level a bit by colapsing a dam,
plenty of different possible uses of destructable enviroment once there not all set pieces!

Vault
14th Jul 2005, 03:10 PM
red faction anyone? that was awsome.... good times.. good times...

Xipher
14th Jul 2005, 09:01 PM
red faction anyone? that was awsome.... good times.. good times...
Yea, although I wasn't a fan of the gameplay itself, the destruction part was fun.

Vault
15th Jul 2005, 07:04 AM
anyone seen the screenshots and story about "Black" at Gamespot? i'd like of some of those effect to be imlplemented, with every bullet kicking up dirt, and a single grenade being able to topple a pillar, and several being able to destroy the build supports, topple the building, squishing your enemies unerneath

->Sachiel<-
24th Jul 2005, 09:24 AM
I think destructable environments would add to gameplay, have you played red faction? There was on e lever where there are two forts with super weapons on top of them and a field to march from one to the other. at the beginning of the game the best weapon is the railgun sniperrifle weapon due to thr walls of the forrts. by the end its the rocket launcher because the walls on the forts turned into swiss cheese!

Swerto
29th Jul 2005, 12:20 PM
you do know the enviorments are more powerful in the UT games than in this time. dirt and cement are one thing but the alloy on the ships? just put a button on a wall you can push to open a door into the vacum!

and i've beaten red faction like 3 times... if you include the time i cheated to get infinite c4 to blow my way across the map!!!!

KNT
29th Jul 2005, 01:43 PM
destructable environments?
that would be aweasome :eek:

Vault
29th Jul 2005, 02:17 PM
I think destructable environments would add to gameplay, have you played red faction? There was on e lever where there are two forts with super weapons on top of them and a field to march from one to the other. at the beginning of the game the best weapon is the railgun sniperrifle weapon due to thr walls of the forrts. by the end its the rocket launcher because the walls on the forts turned into swiss cheese!


oooo yeah, your making me wanna play it again!

Bullet10k
29th Jul 2005, 03:58 PM
Yea, I love Red Faction too, beat it like 3 times like Swerto and cheated my way through (blew my way up to another level).

*me checks to see if its still installed so I can play*
*Finds out its not*

Too bad RF2 sucked, its sux that its barely even mentioned anywhere as a good game. And the RF community is so dead now.

I would love to see destructible environments and damageable environments in ut2k7.

wooda
9th Aug 2005, 10:09 AM
Yes, it would be cool, yes it would be fun, but no, it shouldn't be done, it would take too much time from the level designers, they would have to create too much new content, they could use that time to make more and better maps instead.
Destructable bridges and stuff like that would be nice, but only to a certain extent, nobody likes to run with the flag, and then get stuck in front of a blown up bridge only several meters infront of his base, it would work well in conquest though, and would probably be implemented.

Wowbagger
9th Aug 2005, 10:25 AM
One (maybe cheap) way to do this would be to let the Static Meshes be destructable to a certain degree.
That way the rocket you just dodged really FEELS lethal when you see the damage it did and at the same time it wont change the flow (not that much anyway) of the map since the BSP still is there.

gregori
11th Aug 2005, 10:49 AM
Destroying the eviroment to create obstructions to stop the enemy reaching their goals quickly,could add alot of strategy to CON

Kabs-BUB
20th Oct 2005, 01:37 AM
destroying environments like...on torlan would leave everyone standing on a flat plain just shooting at each other
I just hope that they will slowly regenerate

Rambowjo
20th Oct 2005, 08:24 AM
It would be sorta exciting, to see the biiig tower in Torlan, breaking at just over at the middle, falling down at crush several people and break up into several parts, making af blassing cloud of dust, running over the landscape, in a wave like animation, while the tower starts burning and explodes like 4 minutes after :P!

Turret 49
20th Oct 2005, 10:18 AM
The only problem with I have destructable environments is once you destroy it, you can't get it back.

briach
20th Oct 2005, 11:56 AM
Destructable environments would be hot for a round based game-type, like BR or TAM.

I don't think it would be that cool for TDM or CTF, but it'd probably add a lot to CON, because CON gave me the impression it was going to be a huge map so players shouldn't be fighting in the same area for long.

Bullet10k
20th Oct 2005, 02:58 PM
The only problem with I have destructable environments is once you destroy it, you can't get it back.
Maybe you can use the link gun to bring back all the molecules together.:lol:

rhirud
21st Oct 2005, 03:41 PM
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml

Artists can build terrain using a dynamically-deformable base height map extended by multiple layers of smoothly-blended materials including displacement maps, normal maps and arbitrarily complex materials, dynamic LOD-based tessellation, and vegetation layers with procedurally-placed meshes. Further, the terrain system supports artist-controlled layers of procedural weathering, for example, grass and vegetation on the flat areas of terrain, rock on high slopes, and snow at the peaks.

Vault
21st Oct 2005, 04:53 PM
Maybe you can use the link gun to bring back all the molecules together.:lol:

thats actually not a bad idea.....kinda like how a lazer melts stuff and the melted stuff cools off to form a solid form. this could be a very good strategic maneuver for reparing doors to you protecting etc. plus. you could make art by welding stuff together...then shock prim it into another play for a great "lol" kill

Rambowjo
22nd Oct 2005, 05:52 AM
thats actually not a bad idea.....kinda like how a lazer melts stuff and the melted stuff cools off to form a solid form. this could be a very good strategic maneuver for reparing doors to you protecting etc. plus. you could make art by welding stuff together...then shock prim it into another play for a great "lol" kill

Like melting some ironspikes onto a iron chair or something like that, and then throw at enemies? Lol kills ftw :lol:

Kabs-BUB
22nd Oct 2005, 11:12 PM
maybe you could just "shape" the landscape like..by shooting ion tank projectiles to bend the tower of Torlan??:D :rockon:

Vault
23rd Oct 2005, 07:56 AM
to make it the leaning tower of Torlan?

Da Spadger
23rd Oct 2005, 08:01 AM
More like the melted tower of Torlan. :D

Vault
23rd Oct 2005, 08:04 AM
ah and large gobs of melted tower could fall and block up the ravine...thats would be pretty cool...(and if your caught in the gob...well...hahhahahaah you are DEAD)

Kabs-BUB
24th Oct 2005, 10:46 PM
maybe it should be like jello..

Vault
25th Oct 2005, 03:17 PM
shall you be banned?

Kantham
25th Oct 2005, 03:47 PM
red faction anyone? that was awsome.... good times.. good times...

No. Not really. I think it was pretty boring after a while since most of the best physics part where calculated frame by frame and solid animations. It would need physics.

And anyway, i don't care about it, most of people will get distracted by this and instead of playing they will be staring at the wall shoting rockets on a fragile object and such. Bah.

More like the melted tower of Torlan. :D

:D

With a floating weapon base on the top which is a redeemer.

KillStreak
25th Oct 2005, 06:07 PM
destroyable environments in UT 2k7 I hope not.... that would just screw the game up.

Cryora
3rd Nov 2005, 01:36 AM
One way games can have destructable environments without having to make them as events in maps is by designing a very advanced form of decals.

Right now, decals are a primitive form of destructable enviornement. If a development team works hard enough to take decals to a whole new level, then it would bring the kind of destructable enviornment desired.

UT2K4's decals simply change the textures on objects. More realistic decals would alter objects' physical properties. I think F.E.A.R. uses shaders to make decals for bullets. Maybe UT2K7 will have this feature. But bigger and more enviornmental changing decals (for example a shock combo busting a crater on to floor which you can jump into) are probably too much for our computer to handle. It would take memory the size of hard drives to run a game with such destructable enviornments.

Neophoenix
3rd Nov 2005, 09:29 AM
destroyable environments in UT 2k7 I hope not.... that would just screw the game up.
Well get use to it because its going to have them.

T2A`
3rd Nov 2005, 11:08 AM
HL2 had them too, or so they said, and all we got was breakable boxes. Woo.

Neophoenix
3rd Nov 2005, 08:28 PM
HL2 had them too, or so they said, and all we got was breakable boxes. Woo.
I thought you could blow up some walls too?. least I thought I remembered that. Though, I think it will be more than that because we already have destructable objects in 2kx, just not destructable environments.

T2A`
3rd Nov 2005, 09:08 PM
My point is that even though they said "fully destructible environments" what we got was "fully destructible objects that the mappers placed here and there while everything else was just as indestructible as every other game." I would venture a guess that destructable "environments" in UT would be no different, and for good reason. A truly destructible environment would just f*ck the game up.

fuegerstef
4th Nov 2005, 05:08 AM
A truly destructible environment would just f*ck the game up.

that sums it up... ...gameplay wise.

Neophoenix
4th Nov 2005, 11:03 AM
My point is that even though they said "fully destructible environments" what we got was "fully destructible objects that the mappers placed here and there while everything else was just as indestructible as every other game." I would venture a guess that destructible "environments" in UT would be no different, and for good reason. A truly destructible environment would just f*ck the game up.
I don't actually see it being such that after a CON map there are craters everywhere. But I would venture to guess that you would be able to shoot a side of a mountain and have boulders crush your enemy. They will also probably have destructible walls and floors that lead to hidden items, secret passages and traps. At least that’s how I would make a destructible environment. I trust epic will have a nice balance of destructible objects and destructible environment, so I wouldn't worry too much about game play.

I'm just hoping that the vehicular battles don't become like M1A1 Abrams Battle Tank. Having your turret engine get shot out and immobilized, or your tread coming off and getting you stuck, like epic eluded to, would suck. I would much rather have a mud pit that can get a vehicle stuck, or critical hit zones that does more damage to a vehicle. At least then it would be easier, not only to avoid, but learn to play with as well.

Dark Pulse
4th Nov 2005, 11:19 AM
that sums it up... ...gameplay wise.
I could see something like Red Faction perhaps: A large chunk of the level is destroyable in some way, but there's still limits. If you burrow too far into a wall, floor, or something similar, eventually you'll stop burrowing.

NuForce
11th Nov 2005, 07:17 AM
I could see something like Red Faction perhaps: A large chunk of the level is destroyable in some way, but there's still limits. If you burrow too far into a wall, floor, or something similar, eventually you'll stop burrowing.When I saw this topic that was Red Faction was the first thing that came into my head. I tried that game way back when it was released. You can blow up select walls and things but they do regenerate. It was interesting but it was really no big deal. At that time I found UT99 to be a much better game. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want a total destructible environment. Just think of all the noobs that'll do nothing but grab a tank and shoot at wall the entire match.

They come up with a limited destructible environment that would have blown up structures respawn after a certain amount of time.

Nu

Neophoenix
11th Nov 2005, 09:34 AM
When I saw this topic that was Red Faction was the first thing that came into my head. I tried that game way back when it was released. You can blow up select walls and things but they do regenerate. It was interesting but it was really no big deal. At that time I found UT99 to be a much better game. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want a total destructible environment. Just think of all the noobs that'll do nothing but grab a tank and shoot at wall the entire match.

They come up with a limited destructible environment that would have blown up structures respawn after a certain amount of time.

Nu
If they do have destructible environments, I hope they don't regenerate. That would be so cheep it would hurt. I want to me able to blow up a wall next to water, making the room fill up with water. After which I can swim through a path in the ceiling, to either another part of the map or a power up. Having to do that ALL the time would take too long, and not be very convincing of realism.

This isn't Cinderella, no pumpkins magically turning into chariots, please. :p

Growler
11th Nov 2005, 05:17 PM
how about this then..... everything that LOOKS destructable, IS destructable, and leave the rest like Captain Scarlet

I think FlatOut is a great example of the possibilities for destructable terrain - which is what practically MAKES the game - which ADDS to the fun, rather than taking away the main focus OF the game: to be the winner of the race, and have fun at the same time! [but flying out of the windscreen = worst. idea. ever.]


whatever happened to logic and the laws of physics when a rocket launcher or a fast, powerful moving target hits a thin wall? there's a BIG difference between something that's 'unreal', and what happens naturally with the laws of physics.

Neophoenix
11th Nov 2005, 09:16 PM
whatever happened to logic and the laws of physics when a rocket launcher or a fast, powerful moving target hits a thin wall? there's a BIG difference between something that's 'unreal', and what happens naturally with the laws of physics.
That brings up another point. Should projectiles be able to pass through certain objects? (Barrals, thin wood beams, flimsy walls, etc.)

briach
11th Nov 2005, 11:36 PM
More death triggers around levels like in ut99.

Pressure chambers. Cargo coming out of a factory waiting to be dumped can be triggered causing them to crash down on unlucky players. Falling Boulders. Breaking dams for roundbased combat. Collapsing tunnels. etc.

Phopojijo
16th Nov 2005, 03:25 PM
destructable environments?
that would be aweasome :eek:
Its possible now. Mesh swaps/actor deleting/movers, etc.

BmB23
20th Nov 2005, 12:53 PM
For all you darn wierdos who has the crazy idea it'll become a slideshow because of the destructable environments... I have two words.

Phys... X.

the head
5th Dec 2005, 01:46 PM
i used to have a real time beta of a arlier novodeX engine,guess what, its SUPERNATURAL it includes many demonstartions,such as a block of buildings bllowing-up to 16,0000 bricks all physically interactive, this is only a early beta of a privious version of the physics engine and then theres the phyX which is sort of a physics enhancer card like a grapich card that inchances the physics 10 times more!!! theres nothing that this engine can not do!!
if you wnat to see this ingame i suggest that you look again at the ingame scene at the and of the steve polge interview on area51 or at the demonstration from gc which in both you can see the strret lightpools on the new CON-urban map getting blowen-off ,when they are blowen-off the light that they project also turnes-off ,also notice the latest screenshot of the new manta, if you look carefully you could see bullet holles in the manta,these bullet-holles have great visual lookingthat feets the surface thier on,bullets could panatrate objects such as wodden dorrs & you could have a pic through the holl,same goes with explosion craters that will have visual depte & will probably remin till the end of the game. nice huh!

Rambowjo
5th Dec 2005, 02:28 PM
The head has got a cousine?

ThirtySixBelow
5th Dec 2005, 06:31 PM
i used to have a real time beta of a arlier novodeX engine,guess what, its SUPERNATURAL it includes many demonstartions,such as a block of buildings bllowing-up to 16,0000 bricks all physically interactive, this is only a early beta of a privious version of the physics engine and then theres the phyX which is sort of a physics enhancer card like a grapich card that inchances the physics 10 times more!!! theres nothing that this engine can not do!!
if you wnat to see this ingame i suggest that you look again at the ingame scene at the and of the steve polge interview on area51 or at the demonstration from gc which in both you can see the strret lightpools on the new CON-urban map getting blowen-off ,when they are blowen-off the light that they project also turnes-off ,also notice the latest screenshot of the new manta, if you look carefully you could see bullet holles in the manta,these bullet-holles have great visual lookingthat feets the surface thier on,bullets could panatrate objects such as wodden dorrs & you could have a pic through the holl,same goes with explosion craters that will have visual depte & will probably remin till the end of the game. nice huh!

Wow, that was a pretty good read on what the internet can do for your grasp on the english language. :rolleyes:

I think destructive environments would ruin the game quite a bit. Knocking over polls here and there is fine, but
I want to me able to blow up a wall next to water, making the room fill up with water. After which I can swim through a path in the ceiling, to either another part of the map or a power up.
no.

Having the ability to blow huge holes in the ground would ruin most any map. With this thinking you could play a map like Rankin and blow the whole building up, leveling it to the ground. Though, according to Mr. Spelling it should be able to handle 16,0000 * 10 bricks in an explosion, so it wouldn't be a problem. If you can shoot rockets at the floor that make huge holes and jump through them, and put huge craters in the ground to get stuck in, I won't be playing this game.

briach
5th Dec 2005, 06:49 PM
Gametypes/maps with destructable environments are best if round-based and have rounds short in duration.

The gameplay and map flow would have to have form. All the destructable objects would have to be purposefully put in.

I think coop would be very fun with destructable environments.

Jackal
5th Dec 2005, 08:09 PM
UT2k4 has destructable terrain and enviroments.

HL2 had sprite grass.....SPRITE GRASS!

the head
6th Dec 2005, 10:19 AM
if its my english your talking about ,im not a native english speaker, physical stuff such as 160000 rockes rolling down a hill will be ablable with the new target painter this weapon will make stuffs such as volcanic iroptions,earth-quakes,etc,etc ... not many actual building could be demolished beacuse this will realy hurt the gameplay,water physics will be ablable & physics of grass &boshes also,there was demonstrations of this things in the beta,theres even the abillty to bant iron polls or cabels there will be pysical valus to stuff like a clothes that cover stuff,ragdoll bodies movement capabilty will be determined by the structure of the bones inside it!!this is all fact.

N1ghtmare
6th Dec 2005, 03:03 PM
I thiink their should be destructable objects, but not to a certain degree. Take Deck-17 for exaple. what would happen to the redeemer when you have destroyed its balcony? How would you be able to go up to the sniper room if all ramps to get to it are destroyed? How would you get back to your base with the flag in CTF-Face if their is no asteroid?

If their will be destrucltable enviroments, there must be another way to get around the map. If the ArcticStronghold bridge is destroyed, cracks the ice, and blocks that area, there is still another way to get to the other side, the only problem would be "what would happen to the powernode it just crushed".Kinda like BF2's destructable bridges, their was still another way across, it just took longer.

Oh, and the head, I do believe there is a spell-check button.
Its best if they allow for few, but not to many.

Vault
6th Dec 2005, 04:21 PM
..."force feilds" that cover areas that shouldnt be destroyed. these of course would only be visisble when hit...grids ya know. i think the same logic could be used for VCTF to block mantas. say within 100 yards radius of the flag, theres a dome force feild that mantas and raptors can go throught..when they hit it, the grids will appear momentarily and the forces feild will ripple, and the manta that hit is will be pushed back, whiles its rippling, mantas can go through it, but its a quick action, and it'd be pretty hard to do. this way, manta runs are possible, but its much harder.

fuegerstef
8th Dec 2005, 04:32 AM
I say keep the maps solid (with a few destructable objects maybe). Otherwise it would be too far from the UT gameplay... ...save this for another franchise please.

Phopojijo
8th Dec 2005, 01:15 PM
My point is that even though they said "fully destructible environments" what we got was "fully destructible objects that the mappers placed here and there while everything else was just as indestructible as every other game." I would venture a guess that destructable "environments" in UT would be no different, and for good reason. A truly destructible environment would just f*ck the game up.
Actually Gearbox Software already messed around with some of the UE3 special features such as destructible cover (a little video demonstration for their "liberation party"). They had Sgt. Matt Baker behind a wooden object which was slowing getting picked apart by bullet fire to nothing -- so even if we don't get them in the levels there'll definitely be the capacities for the mods to perform as such; and when was the last time Epic let the modders outshine them?

Jackal
8th Dec 2005, 03:31 PM
and when was the last time Epic let the modders outshine them?

This very year actually :)

Vance
8th Dec 2005, 09:13 PM
that would be nice but will cost more to make it with the unreal ed 3.0 and adding physcals will req a better pc

Phopojijo
8th Dec 2005, 10:52 PM
This very year actually :)Well obviously as machines get faster you can pump more polygons... but my guess is UT2007 will have some **** up their sleeves.