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BooGiTyBoY
13th Jun 2005, 09:09 PM
One thing that bothers me the most about 2k4 since the ragdoll system was instituted is player push/knockback from weapons. Even in the original UT if you got hit by a rox you would travel a ways and it would also be affected by your direction of travel.

Example: In UT if you hit someone in the air with a rocket or flak shell they would fly pretty far in the opposite direction of the hit. If it was at their feet while they were mid-jump/dodge it would give them quite the upward momentum as well.
In 2k4 when you air rox someone or air flak them they will dorp like a stone. No matter what direciton they are traveling in, they will stop all forward/backward momentum and drop straight down. Even if you hit them dead on while running with a rox at close range it just seems to piff off their body like you just hit em' with a spitball.

Even shock hits used to give quite a push in the old days compared to now.

LETS USE THAT PHYSICS ENGINE BOYZ!

I miss the days of trying to juggle people and whatnot. I'd like to see something of this nature back in the game.

edhe
14th Jun 2005, 03:58 AM
:tup:

kafros
14th Jun 2005, 09:56 AM
I will say NO. Why?

1. If you get hit once you will be more likely to be hit in succession since the push takes control away from you (see SR effect)

2. I dont want the game to turn into quake arena where you constantly try to lift ppl of the ground with a rocket so you can get a second easy hit on the spot where they land.

3. I feel like saying NO today (the most important reason of all)

winx
14th Jun 2005, 10:14 AM
. I dont want the game to turn into quake arena where you constantly try to lift ppl of the ground with a rocket so you can get a second easy hit on the spot where they land.

If you like ut2004... .well its does this...

I very often hit someone leggs with a rocket shot then finish their flyng body with an easy lg shot.

i can send you a movie if you want

edhe
14th Jun 2005, 10:44 AM
Kafros-:

1) You've always had kickback from the Shock rifle, no surprises.
2) That 'feature' is in 2k3 and 2k4 and even UT, it's an FPS skill, not a game specific thing.
3) Pinkleberries.

kafros
14th Jun 2005, 12:41 PM
edhe:

1) I know. I didn't say it is a surprise
2) UT had it applified UT200x did not. Yes you do lift but not in such a way as to do a parabolic arc
3)what are these?

winx:
Yes, do send me a movie. I want Lord of the Siths episode III please

winx
14th Jun 2005, 12:46 PM
ahahahaha

dumbness apogee

gj kafros

Vault
14th Jun 2005, 12:59 PM
i say YO! this would add more realism in physics.

edhe
14th Jun 2005, 03:42 PM
Personally i loved it in UT when you got blasted back by 6 r0x when fully pumped on shield and keg. Happens rarely in 2kx, it was fun.

-AEnubis-
14th Jun 2005, 04:32 PM
It happens now, it's just realated directly to how much damage you do.

Take a 60pt rocket to the feet, and you will fly up, enough to then follow with air rox.

Yeah, I want it to stay.

momentum makes a difference too... I haven't done much triangulating in experiments with it to test, but I know if I'm on one side of a gap, and my target dodges at me, a rocket stops them, as can a beam. If we are on the same side of a gap, he dodges away, and I hit them with the same fire, they fly twice as far.

SG pushes you the same distance, only to have targets current momentum effect the direction of that push by a couple degrees. It's a sharper push, because it's more damage.

You don't feel it as much in regular games, with un-armored opponents, becuase they can't take enough damage to make it happen like it can. They die from 150 damage, so people rarely feel the push of an SG shot, or a fully loaded goo shot, which can throw somone a crazy distance.

shadow_dragon
14th Jun 2005, 09:16 PM
I think, either i'm mis-interpreting what boogy means or everyone else is. :S

I thought boogy was reffering to the push back a player gets AFTER they died. That a shock to the face makes a player drop like a stone, not launch them backflipping against the wall like you'd expect.

That's atleast what i thought he meant and mostly it's because i want exactly the same thing.

I think the ingame player push back for weapons is just about right it's just wierd when you kill a guy with a massive explosion and their corpse just drops through the explosion rather than get flung away.


(.... It'd be really nice if propelled corpses could do a bit of damage if you manage to punt them hard enough into other players, that'd rock so much, even if it were the usual 5 PT mario Stomping type damage.)

BooGiTyBoY
14th Jun 2005, 09:34 PM
No I mean during gameplay as well. If you get hit with a rox in the air that doest kill you it should seem like you just ogt blasted with a pretty strong force. I don't mean like Quake where it will pop you up in straight line pretty much making it very easy to air rox and even juggle an opponent with multiple ones. Well in the promode (cpma) mod it does that. Thestock Quake3 "pushing" isn't as bad as that. I just wanna see some of the physics everyone is always raving about used properly. Painkiller during the single player does an excellent job of using force momentum in the havok engine. I never realized how much UT's physics really lick a fat one until I played that.

-AEnubis-
14th Jun 2005, 10:14 PM
Tribes didn't clue you in?

We still got most other games beat.

nuttella
15th Jun 2005, 12:12 PM
It happens now, it's just realated directly to how much damage you do.

Not really. Sniper Rifle/LG barely move you if at all. I say bring back the old rapid-fire sniper that knocked you back 10 feet when you got shot.

gregori
15th Jun 2005, 01:33 PM
it would be nice to see some proper transfer of momentum in ut2007 for all things, explosions,vehicle collisions, falling and hitting people with enforcer,it will help to reduce the floaty feeling in the game without restricting movement too much, hopefully you'll still be ablt to do thatstanding corpse kill with the minigun/link!

-AEnubis-
15th Jun 2005, 01:43 PM
It happens now, it's just realated directly to how much damage you do.

...if the weapon has push. Sniper never has had push.

Majik
15th Jun 2005, 01:46 PM
In 2k4 when you air rox someone or air flak them they will dorp like a stone. No matter what direciton they are traveling in, they will stop all forward/backward momentum and drop straight down.

That's exactly what I hate about splash damage in UT2k4. Whenever someone gets hit by splash damage from beneath them when they're airborn...they just drop. I mean, what the hell?

Voted yes. I'm really looking forward to what novodex can do to enhance our beloved game.

gregori
15th Jun 2005, 01:47 PM
It hasn't, may be if it doesn't it should therefore be able to pass through one target and hit another?

-AEnubis-
16th Jun 2005, 02:25 AM
Well, that is different entirely. Routinely, if an object can pass through another, the velocity is so intense that is simply destorys, or splits whatever is in it's path, and hence wouldn't move it at all. Kinda like the "sharp samurai sword" cutting so fast that bleeding doesn't even happen immediately, let alone dismemberment.

Q3 had a "push effect" from all damage. Its not fun, especially with some of their silly bouncy maps. You can wrong place people with just the machine gun.

BooGiTyBoY
16th Jun 2005, 12:19 PM
Well maybe it's not fun for you ;)
I lubz it, hehe.
I've yet to push anyone with a machine gun too.

SharKTanK
16th Jun 2005, 12:34 PM
Even shock hits used to give quite a push in the old days compared to now. Shock Primary still gives a bit of oomph, but I do agree it's nothing like it used to be. I'd also put my money on it being the most "knock-backeriffic" weapon in 2k4... Bar Goo or something.
Compare that to UT, when a good smacking from MOST weapons would send you miles skyward. Example: In UT if you hit someone in the air with a rocket or flak shell they would fly pretty far in the opposite direction of the hit. If it was at their feet while they were mid-jump/dodge it would give them quite the upward momentum as well.

In 2k4 when you air rox someone or air flak them they will dorp like a stone. Exactly.
While it's amazing fun to pull off one Air Rocket, it's near impossible to pull off two as your opponent is already accelerating towards the ground (most times). I never pulled it off myself in UT, but I have seen a couple double air rockets, and I've only ever seen one double air rocket in 2k4...
Ehm, so yeah. Body Punching Power (BPP!) would be nice. :)

winx
16th Jun 2005, 01:50 PM
like Aenubis said, goo make persons bounce like hell in 2k4(if they dont die) and its plenty of fun. So instead of saying "bring it back" ill just say "Amplify it" wich is the same but making worthless post is my fun when im tired making jscript regexp s.

nuttella
16th Jun 2005, 03:41 PM
...if the weapon has push. Sniper never has had push.

Every weapon had some push in UT. Sniper had quite a bit. 10 feet is an exaggeration, but it was noticeable. If you were looking over a ledge and got shot from below, it would lift you off your feet. (I still play the old UT, btw.) You could even boost a teammate with the minigun (not very useful, but you could push them up a wall). In fact, I've had the feeling they took some of the push away in 2k4 (especially with rockets) to avoid launching. But it just seems unnatural to me. All weapons should have push.

1337
16th Jun 2005, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't want hitscan weapons to have more push if their rof stays as high as it is right now and the shield gun being taken out. I would also like to see certain projectile weapons doing a little more damage if the movement system stays the same, but be more precise to balance it out, meaning smaller splash radius and direct hits being more rewarding than a splash at someone's feet.

If you shoot someone in the face with rockets while they are in the air they should gain downward momentum and if you shoot someone in the feet they should gain upward momentum. I'm pretty sure this is how it worked in ut2k4. I don't recall hitting someone in the feet and having them gain downward momentum.

Without the shield feature in the next game, we really need a larger momentum per splash damage ratio. It's the ownage when someone hits another in the feet with rockets and hits them in the face with another one while they are in the air. Projectile weapons should be more emphasized, but not noobed at the same time. I definitely don't want rockets only usefulness to be shot at the ground underneath an opponent. Plus, I don't like how you can't double jump over rocket splash damage.

T2A`
16th Jun 2005, 07:49 PM
I don't really care what they do as long as they fix that f*ckin' no-damage projectile bug.

I was thinking about making a mutator that gave rockets more push like the assault grenade, which gives about 30% more push than a rocket. Maybe I'll actually do it now so I can post it here...

BooGiTyBoY
16th Jun 2005, 09:55 PM
Woot! I'd love it bro. Do it up.

And yes.. they really need to fix the damn duds already.

When we play Rocketeer I'd say each one of us has about confirmed 3 duds per round. That's a LOT of damage that isn't registering.

-AEnubis-
17th Jun 2005, 01:52 AM
Fixing dud projecitles would be client side hit detection.

I get as many damaging projectile that I see not hit, as non-damaging projectiles I see hit. It's just mild discrepencies in what the client sees, and what the server sees. What the server sees effects your ammo and health, what the client sees only effects your preception of that. It's no different then when I try to fire, lose packets, and see no beam, spend no ammo, but watch my weapon kick and make noise.

It's frustrating, dont' get me wrong, but so would be client side hit detection. Like newnet, but different.

BooGiTyBoY
17th Jun 2005, 02:10 AM
I'd much rather see my gun animation go off and no bullet come out... then see my perfectly timed air rox do no damage. ;)

-AEnubis-
17th Jun 2005, 02:14 PM
If that shot was a lift jump combo that would killed someone, and they killed you when you hit the ground instead (or before), would that make the decision any tougher?

I kinda like seeing rockets mow through people as though they could hit something else, but my point is simply illustrating the nature of the "bug."

killalot0
21st Jun 2005, 01:30 PM
if were talking about this why don't implent it when a character walks against a character it should have the ability to push it shouldnt it.