View Full Version : On the way to fun...

13th Jun 2005, 06:42 PM
I just want to share some thoughts about team-game, balance, physics, etc..
Its not necesserally about UT2007, but i have Unreal engine and new UT2007 game type in mind.

First of all, balance. I quite often hear that balancing is treated as not making a way to kill someone easily. I would like to think about balance as being able to kill easily, but only in some certain situations. Powerfull weapons are not enough here. The wider variety of situations, where power comes only with chalenge, are, the more fun you have. Actually, i think that power is not what matters most. Massive destruction tools are impressive, but does not make the one you fragged to say "Nice shot!". Every weapon should be something exceptional, working in totally different way. No trying to make something equal in the same situation.

It doesnt matter how easy the game you make is, noobs will be the same. I think poor noob just have to find something cool step by step to keep playing. Something that does not force him to aim well (put a mine and turn off the light ;) )

I think i get the premis of your post, basicly "For those who can't aim well there should be somthing else they can do"
Yes. But dont forget you also can do that! :D

The very interesting way to combat would be using mainly automated stuff. Deployable things, such as destroyable blocks to make barricades, different kinds of turrets, mines which you coud set up with the amount of explosives you want (having your total explosives limited), walking bots which could be commanded to do things owner wants, buglar alarm when someone crosses laser beam (placed by player), of course different types of stationary or deployable turrets,... and so on...

Teamwork... It happens when you are not able to do something without help of your teammate, or at least its hard and slow on your own.

The fact that such amount of different characters can do exactly the same things always seemed weird to me. I think thats the wrong way to go. Ok, i know, everyone wants to look different, but different faces would be just enough.
Creating your own set of abilities for FPS character? Well, that would be interesting. Until players find "super-powerfull" combinations of such abilities. I say why not? Why not to find most of such combinations before players do and to tweak them against each other? Thats possible. I dont know easy interface implementation of this though, especially if everyone is in hurry to frag :)

Another crazy thing would be suplying all the machinerry to keep it working. Maybe with some form of energy in some special (flying or not) vehicle.

Well, i understand that such things put game far beyond current standarts. Not everyone likes complicated things... Well... Limits are the must. And putting all that stuff i told about in one game type would be ridicoulus.. i guess.

Lots of things were already done in different games. Those ideas are not mine, and i am sure developers know about them. Just making complicated things to be not frustrating and fun is even more complicated task.

13th Jun 2005, 06:49 PM
i like your ideas, i say yay to uber cutomization!

13th Jun 2005, 06:55 PM
I dont quite follow you...

13th Jun 2005, 06:56 PM
Well, some limits might help :D

13th Jun 2005, 06:57 PM
yesh, no 500 foot giants, or microspcopic people

13th Jun 2005, 07:25 PM
I think i get the premis of your post, basicly "For those who can't aim well there should be somthing else they can do"

13th Jun 2005, 07:41 PM
thats not i got from it...

i got:
"The weapons should not be equally powerful, there should be weapons that are better and more desirable to the player. Also, i thinks there should be more situations where you can lay traps, and not traps like spider mines that require so skill, but hard to place traps that would be very rewarding when they workd, and fustrating when they fail.

Teamwork should be more emphazized in UT2007

I think that character should have more uniquiness, not just makeup over the same boby build. Also, i would like different characters to have better jumps, faster speeds,differnt heights, weights, etc. but not to such extremes where one character would be infintly better than any player."

13th Jun 2005, 08:07 PM
Well... simple to read, hard to write... English is not my native language :rolleyes:

14th Jun 2005, 06:59 AM
Powerfull weapons are not enough here. The wider variety of situations, where power comes only with chalenge, are, the more fun you have. Actually, i think that power is not what matters most. Massive destruction tools are impressive, but does not make the one you fragged to say "Nice shot!".

IMO, powerfull weapons (well not all of them but at least a good part of them) should be located on spots that are REALLY hard to reach (with retro shield gun jump, tricky lift jump, technical wall jump, Goo-shield gun jump, double vertical shield gun jump,... well stuff like that).
OK people may NOT write "nice shot" when you frag with your deemer, but at least they may think "WOW!! how the hell he/she puts his hand on it!!!" and in that case, that s a nice way to stop seeing people complaining about super weapons that give an easy frag to anyone.

Well, for sure many of you may not share my opinion, but I think it s worth to consider it since this thread is about BALANCE...

14th Jun 2005, 08:39 AM
On weapons, you shouldn't feel completely screwed if you only have the assault rifle or whichever like you do in 2kx. Comparatively in ut99 if you had the enforcer at least you felt you had a chancel. Weapons balance shouldn't be about superpowerful weapons VS weak pea shooters, thats for a singleplayer FPS.It should come down to how you use a weapon primarly and whats that weapons functionality, which with two different firing modes ,it should have plenty!

14th Jun 2005, 11:04 AM
AR is way stronger than Enforcers and using primary the right way gives you the chance you need to hit the bulls eye with a nade.

14th Jun 2005, 11:29 AM
Weapon may be able to use different shells.

Also such things like different kinds of poison, drugs (bad visibility/broken coordination), damage to different parts of body, setting on flame, damaging weapons enemy has (EMP damage, corrosion or something else), weapon durability, possibility to repair weapon (maybe only by teammate having some certain skill) would be impressive.

14th Jun 2005, 11:40 AM
Play an RPG, not UT.

14th Jun 2005, 11:47 AM
play wow

14th Jun 2005, 11:58 AM
i did. Actually after i tried such games as WOW, i was happy to be able to AIM again when i got rid of them. I dont say wow is bad, but i just cant stand the fact that your power depends on wasted time.

Who said FPS should be limited to something? I think UT could make some inovation in this genre. Maybe not by total change, maybe with some gametype. Anyway, i think such game will be created some day, but it would be great it was UT.

14th Jun 2005, 12:08 PM
Um, sure FPS don't need to stick to that, check out Deus Ex. UT is NOT about repairing weapons or reloading or EMP bombing or body-related damage...

God, maybe we should make a sticky about this for the forums.


14th Jun 2005, 12:11 PM
Well this would be ok for a mutator or a mod but not the game. MMOFPS's like Huxley are coming out soon and ut2k7 probably wont be one. As far as one weapon being overpowered, there is already overpowered superweapons but most servers disable them. And if there were overpowered weapons I'm sure a noob would never get his/her hands on it. The best way to keep noobs involved in the game is just teach them how to get better. Even though I suck at the game, I often take time to explain things to newcomers that ask questions ingame.

The only reason it's hard for noobs is because of all the settings and performance tweaks necessary for the average person to get ut2k4 to play like it should. It should be easier for someone to adjust their mouse sense and binds. Console commands are the only real way to adjust your binds and mouse sense time efficiently because the menus load so slow, but people that are playing a PC FPS for the first time might find it hard to do.

A MMOFPS style of UT would be fun for a lot of people, but this is mod material. Cool idea. Maybe you should get a mod team together when ut2k7 comes out. I'd definitely play with it for awhile. And getting the right setup for ut2k4 is half the battle for noobs, the rest is easy. I see a lot of starters get just as good as people that played ut2k3 before ut2k4 in less than a month. The reason they got better faster than the majority of other players is because they hanged out in servers where people knew about setups and knew how to improve one's play in ut2k4.

14th Jun 2005, 01:32 PM

14th Jun 2005, 02:10 PM
i still think there could be a "The Sims" like character customizer (or course there would still be pre-made characters)

14th Jun 2005, 02:15 PM
:D New version of UT... sounds fun! (sorry for being sarcastic)

Actually, what made me create this thread was info about conquest gametype. I expect something more from it than DM, and just want to share what i am interested in.

14th Jun 2005, 02:18 PM
i still think there could be a "The Sims" like character customizer (or course there would still be pre-made characters)

Yea and finnally all-in-one game which would be to replace LIFE


Sad thing is we are seeking for that.

14th Jun 2005, 02:31 PM
i hate real life

14th Jun 2005, 02:45 PM
Yeah whats the point with those 'real' peoples if you cant even pull shock combos in their face? ;) ? Forget about them. But dont forget about washing yourself.

14th Jun 2005, 02:55 PM
yeah, sometimes when i make a paper airplane i say, "heys, where the alt-fire?"

14th Jun 2005, 03:04 PM
same here.

14th Jun 2005, 10:12 PM
and the toilet.... ugh, dont get me started

15th Jun 2005, 03:05 PM
yeah, in Rome: total war, characters in the game get nicknames depending on their actions,reputation and personality-how they play the game, for example repeatedly assasinations,launching wars and financial problems cause the apropiate nick names.

i'm thinking that in the single player ladder for ut2007 it would be interesting a similar system would be fun. for example nicknames get given for excessive headshots,roadkills,suicides,melee,falling of edges,knocking others of edges,backstabbing and camping .......Vlad the Impaler,Malcolm the terrible, cant think of any good nicknames right now but i'll be get some soon........................ and so on, also award badges of honor Quake 3 style on the characters profile for thier different feats during gameplay....................i think that would add to the single player experience a bit of depth

15th Jun 2005, 03:13 PM
scouts like badges.
im the best at making knots.

15th Jun 2005, 04:34 PM
so did chararaters in quake 3, though they were more medals of honor really,
Do scouts impale people, vapourise their flesh, nail them to walls? ah well
supose i'll just go and unknot someones intestines!

15th Jun 2005, 06:05 PM
girl scouts do...

15th Jun 2005, 06:20 PM
fair enough!

16th Jun 2005, 10:32 AM
i want a scout outfit