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Majik
31st May 2005, 11:35 PM
By current vehicles I mean the vehicles already present in UT2k4 (Axon).

What bothers me the most when I play onslaught is how some vehicles can kill in totally ridiculous ways, although some of those ways are often associated with the somewhat simplistic physics, which is bound to be a lot better in UT2k7. Most of my gripes though are with splash damage as you will see.

Here's what I want tweaked:

Goliath: IMO the current splash damage radius is overkill. Personally, I think it's way too easy for the driver to kill infantry even if he misses by a wide margin. The radius doesn't necessarily have to be reduced, but the damage dealt should be considerably less in the outer radius. Another thing about its splash damage is its capability to deal damage to pawns through it's own body.

Raptor: Either less splash damage or splash damage not limiting movement as much as in UT2k4. How many times have you not seen people being trapped by its fire and when they pull out their avril, the splash damage detonate the rocket in their own face?

Manta: Basically the same as above. We've already seen its new primary fire (or as AEnubis suggested elsewhere in this forum, a special burst mode), which is much more rapid than the current primary fire. Therefore I seriously hope, if it actually is the new primary fire, that it doesn't do a lot of splash damage, which imo would be overkill seeing as it's already very efficient against infantry.

Hellbender: The only gripe I have about it is its skymines. Although I don't mind that they are powerful, I hate it when they deal damage inbetween the mines.

Otherwise, I hope that the enhanced physics in UT2k7 in general will prevent people from getting run over by a vehicle that is hardly moving at all or while standing on top of the vehicle.

What do you guys think, do you agree or disagree (remember, this is just my opinion)? If you agree, do you have anything to add?

Rant over.

FireCrack
1st Jun 2005, 02:12 AM
I think that vehicles should not be weakened, goliath is good as it stands, raptors guns are good but it needs better missiles, manta, wll we dont know yet, hellbender... umm i dont understand what you mean.


Anyways, we know nothing about most of the vehicles so far, all we can do is lie and wait.

BooGiTyBoY
1st Jun 2005, 05:48 AM
My only wish for the current vehicles was getting an XMP-like booster on my beloved scorpion...

The_Head
1st Jun 2005, 07:18 AM
I love and hate the Hellbender. Love when I have teammates with me. But a lot of the time I'l find myself on my own, a sitting duck. Just add some form of weaponry on the hellbender forn the driver. Nice big spikes on the front so you can ram other vehicles and damage them :D

Vault
1st Jun 2005, 09:50 AM
i think the vehicles sounds need a overhaul, they sound just weak. I want to hear those future engine roar with power. I think that the slash damage is good as it is... i mean, they are vehicles.. are they are meant to be better than being on foot. I cant wait to have my boosters and rockets on my scorpian.... it was just bad in 04


The Levithan... I think should weaken it and make it faster

The_Head
1st Jun 2005, 11:16 AM
As Vault said. they all sound crap. You can hardly even hear most of them. even if you turn the volume right up.

Renegade Retard
1st Jun 2005, 12:38 PM
Remove the Manta. Completely. Cursed devil of a thing!

(I know, it will be there. I just wish it wouldn't ;) )

Majik
1st Jun 2005, 01:23 PM
hellbender... umm i dont understand what you mean.

What I mean is when for example the gunner shoots out two mines, one to his left and one to his right, and I'm standing somewhat in the middle of them not near enough to them to get dealt severe damage, but yet somehow I'm killed even though the combos didn't even come close.

Could just be my imagination though, but I could swear that's how it is.

JaFO
1st Jun 2005, 02:29 PM
My only wish for the current vehicles was getting an XMP-like booster on my beloved scorpion...
I agree. It was one of my first thoughts about possible improvements for the scorpion after release.

I do think I'm going to miss those bola-thingies in UT2k7. It's a shame that the scorpion's signature ranged weapon is replaced by a boring old rocketlauncher-thingy :)

BooGiTyBoY
1st Jun 2005, 02:59 PM
I do think I'm going to miss those bola-thingies in UT2k7. It's a shame that the scorpion's signature ranged weapon is replaced by a boring old rocketlauncher-thingy :)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOOK YOU EPIC!!!!!!

Majik
1st Jun 2005, 03:11 PM
The bola fire is kinda cool, but c'mon it wasn't really that effective...especially not against infantry. The rocketlaunchers, although I'd agree are slightly boring and unoriginal, will (hopefully) help balance it out and make it more efficient against infantry.

BooGiTyBoY
1st Jun 2005, 03:21 PM
I think it has to do with the user... I rock with the bolos and find them extremely effective. Besides.. they arent FOR infantry... your bumper and blades are :D

Majik
1st Jun 2005, 03:37 PM
Well, that's the thing. Those things are easy as hell to dodge (same with the bolas) and leaves it very vulnerable against most experienced players since it lacks proper backup firepower.

I don't really mind it as it is now, but since it's so slow compared to the manta and has slow moving projectiles, most people get raped by infantry while using it. :)

[FDG]Blizzard
1st Jun 2005, 04:07 PM
I'd like a scorpion with a turret-like minigun (more powerful). So maybe primary with a rocket launcher and secondary seat with a bender like turret, but a minigum. Ok ok, la Halo, I have so much more fun with warthog than with the scorp...

But hey, no green ribbon, what are we gonna do against mantas? :(

Dark Pulse
1st Jun 2005, 04:26 PM
By current vehicles I mean the vehicles already present in UT2k4 (Axon).

What bothers me the most when I play onslaught is how some vehicles can kill in totally ridiculous ways, although some of those ways are often associated with the somewhat simplistic physics, which is bound to be a lot better in UT2k7. Most of my gripes though are with splash damage as you will see.

Here's what I want tweaked:

Goliath: IMO the current splash damage radius is overkill. Personally, I think it's way too easy for the driver to kill infantry even if he misses by a wide margin. The radius doesn't necessarily have to be reduced, but the damage dealt should be considerably less in the outer radius. Another thing about its splash damage is its capability to deal damage to pawns through it's own body.

Raptor: Either less splash damage or splash damage not limiting movement as much as in UT2k4. How many times have you not seen people being trapped by its fire and when they pull out their avril, the splash damage detonate the rocket in their own face?

Manta: Basically the same as above. We've already seen its new primary fire (or as AEnubis suggested elsewhere in this forum, a special burst mode), which is much more rapid than the current primary fire. Therefore I seriously hope, if it actually is the new primary fire, that it doesn't do a lot of splash damage, which imo would be overkill seeing as it's already very efficient against infantry.

Hellbender: The only gripe I have about it is its skymines. Although I don't mind that they are powerful, I hate it when they deal damage inbetween the mines.

Otherwise, I hope that the enhanced physics in UT2k7 in general will prevent people from getting run over by a vehicle that is hardly moving at all or while standing on top of the vehicle.

What do you guys think, do you agree or disagree (remember, this is just my opinion)? If you agree, do you have anything to add?

Rant over.
Quick dissection of your criticisms here:

Goliath: It's a 140mm Shell. That's about 5 1/2 inches, which is a damn massive round. It's pretty realistic; concussive forces, as well as shrapnel. This thing SHOULD kill you if it gets close to you.

Raptor: Again, this is fair. If the thing's shooting right in your face, anything explosive should blow right up. I die from this a lot (Less now, now that I've found ways around it) but I still think it's fair and a relatively dumb idea to fire one at it if it's throwing plasma down your throat.

Manta: No change; agreed.

Hellbender: That's because it's basically a chain shock combo, each explosion having the radius of one; 250 UUnits. The idea is to not engage this thing up close and have enough distance that when they're coming, you have enough time to counter by moving.

Majik
1st Jun 2005, 04:47 PM
Goliath: It's a 140mm Shell. That's about 5 1/2 inches, which is a damn massive round. It's pretty realistic; concussive forces, as well as shrapnel. This thing SHOULD kill you if it gets close to you.

Well, who's saying they couldn't make it a smaller shell? ;) Anyway, I get your point, but I'd still like it just sliiiightly less powerful in terms of radius.


Raptor: Again, this is fair. If the thing's shooting right in your face, anything explosive should blow right up. I die from this a lot (Less now, now that I've found ways around it) but I still think it's fair and a relatively dumb idea to fire one at it if it's throwing plasma down your throat.

Well, my gripe is more about being trapped by it than it detonating the avrils. I don't mind it limiting my movement as such, but when the splash damage starts to pull me down when I'm in the middle of a jump it gets annoying.

Hellbender: That's because it's basically a chain shock combo, each explosion having the radius of one; 250 UUnits. The idea is to not engage this thing up close and have enough distance that when they're coming, you have enough time to counter by moving.

Thing is the gunner can pretty much shoot mines out in 360˚ and even if I do move a lot (which I usually do) and I'm not really that close to any of the skymines, he still have a pretty good chance of getting me. Oh, and pardon my ignorance, how much is 250 UU compared to a default playermodel?

Dark Pulse
1st Jun 2005, 05:28 PM
Well, who's saying they couldn't make it a smaller shell? ;) Anyway, I get your point, but I'd still like it just sliiiightly less powerful in terms of radius.




Well, my gripe is more about being trapped by it than it detonating the avrils. I don't mind it limiting my movement as such, but when the splash damage starts to pull me down when I'm in the middle of a jump it gets annoying.



Thing is the gunner can pretty much shoot mines out in 360˚ and even if I do move a lot (which I usually do) and I'm not really that close to any of the skymines, he still have a pretty good chance of getting me. Oh, and pardon my ignorance, how much is 250 UU compared to a default playermodel?
250 UU is the approximate radius of a shock combo or a GES Secondary Discharge. A Rough estimate is about six player widths across.

BooGiTyBoY
1st Jun 2005, 05:44 PM
Sems to me majik most of you're beefs with them have to do with vehicle vs. infantry situations. Vehicles should be more powerful and be able to easily take out someone on foot... that's the advantage of having them.

Skrilax
1st Jun 2005, 05:48 PM
hey if you wanna see how the scorpion in ut2007 is check this video out ;)
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/746/746632/vids_1.html?fromint=1
BTW it has a rocket boost,an eject feature(self-destruct) and it fires rockets not that green blob thing in ut2004 ;)

Majik
1st Jun 2005, 06:06 PM
That's true to some extent, BB, as I for some reason at times prefer to fight on foot (or the light vehicles of course) and let my teammates make use of the vehicles. Although I do understand the importance of the vehicles and their efficiency against infantry.

I'm not really suggesting that they are radically changed or anything, I just want to tone down the kills done in a ridiculous manner. Like just last night I got run over by a manta when the driver jumped, while I was standing on top of it. I wouldn't mind splash damage so much either if it the movement didn't feel so jerky/laggy or in case of the goliath, if it wasn't used to spawnrape bases (I can dream can't I?).

I just needed to vent my frustrations. ;)

Skrilax, that's old, old, old news. :)

BooGiTyBoY
1st Jun 2005, 10:22 PM
Hey I hear ya....

Now I shall vent my frustration at them gettting rid of the scorpions bolo launcher...

BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR
RRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHGODDAMMIT)%*&&!**(&%$*&@!%!*@#%&
**#&@%*&&FOOKINEPIC&%*$%&!**@*&%**@!!SUCK ABIG FAT&#*%&$*@!&%%*@&%%@#@$$LICKING**$&#$***&@#**
$&SMOKING*&#$**&%**&$#&&*&ASS!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhh...
Thank you.

FireCrack
1st Jun 2005, 10:48 PM
The bolo launcher was rediculously effective, all ground vehicles except other scorpions and paladins easily fell prey to it, and mantas too!

Majik
2nd Jun 2005, 12:37 AM
*profanity and stuff*

Haha, now didn't that feel good? :)

Ah well, I can see a lot of you don't agree with me (which is quite alright), so I guess there's no need to keep on with this discussion.

m&ms
2nd Jun 2005, 08:21 AM
I'm with boog here on the bolas. Those things were great against just about anything. They did the best against mantas, hellbenders, goliaths, and turrets, but if you caught a raptor or a paladin off guard there wasn't a problem there. I'm also one of those people that worked with the bolas enough that I can hit people pretty consistently from closer ranges. My only problem with the bolas is that they didn't always stick to human targets. I can't even count the number of bolas I've shot through people.

I guess I can live with bolas going away, but it makes me really concerned as to the manta. Scorp bolas were the best thing in the game to take out mantas, imo. If something else isn't created to fill this role, the manta could become ridiculously overpowered.

BooGiTyBoY
2nd Jun 2005, 01:21 PM
Most of the time when you missed a human target it was because they were "between the stickies" for lack of a better term. If a player on foot wasn't hit by one of the explosive balls on the bolo strand it won't stick.

SirYawnalot
2nd Jun 2005, 08:24 PM
I think the main issue aesthetically is making each vehicles' weapon systems more characterful and unique, rather than just changing the sounds- plasma is so ubiquitous, but the only vehicle it's used in where it fits at all is the Manta. A few bulky-looking shell-ejecting miniguns would be nice on some vehicles, or maybe something more imaginative like a giant harpoon for the Scorpion or Hellbender (adding some sweet anti-vehicle capabilities as well as the possibility of making them all-terrain vehicles).

The balance is a problem in my opinion too though: I can see the need for an AVRiL, because the vehicles are unusual for UT200x in that most can easily kill infantry in a nearly undodgeable manner. However, there is absolutely no place in a game like this for a gun that does all the aiming for you, so it's my opinion that they should take the bugger out (or take away the auto-aim and optimise it for tank-killing) and alter the vehicular arsenal to be dodgeable like everything else in UT200x, but remaining extra-powerful of course.

FireCrack
2nd Jun 2005, 09:15 PM
You know what would be cool, to mkae the bolas come out in a more circular pattern instead of a line and to have it bounce off terrain and have them all contract inwards when one hit. Though that might make it a tad strong...

SanitysEdge
2nd Jun 2005, 09:33 PM
Axon should be liandri,thats the only tweak I request. kthx.

FireCrack
3rd Jun 2005, 01:13 AM
At this point in history Liandri was "Just another mining company"

rhirud
3rd Jun 2005, 07:30 AM
The scorpion needs to be made heavier; I agree keep the bolas, but perhaps send out a web, rather than a chain of grenades.

Giving it a turbo booster instead of blades is a terrific idea though -and a detonating scorpion - better still.

The hellbender and manta is fine as is.

The raptor's missiles need to be made a bit more effective. It has trouble even hitting a cicada. Perhaps give it an instant hit weapon - with no splash dammage - so that it really will give cicadas some problems, and that one on one raptor fights wont be stalemates.

Paladin needs to be made a tiny bit faster

Turrets fine as is, Cicada fine as is,Goliath fine as is,Spma is fine as is

We really need a troop transporter - a dropship type vehichle; and rather than spending a lot of time modifying what we have, creating totally new vehichles to do different roles would be better.

MxX
3rd Jun 2005, 07:50 AM
Also the bots should be improved (for players, who not only play UT in the web :D).
It`s really a pitty that, when you have 2 further teammates on your Hellbender, that they mostly kill you before the enemy does, or they weaken you that the enemy needs only one round of a assault rifle to give you the rest.

P.S.: And please don`t say:
"Simply turn Team Damage off...."
Thank you :p

Vault
3rd Jun 2005, 11:00 AM
Hey I hear ya....

Now I shall vent my frustration at them gettting rid of the scorpions bolo launcher...

BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR
RRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHGODDAMMIT)%*&&!**(&%$*&@!%!*@#%&
**#&@%*&&FOOKINEPIC&%*$%&!**@*&%**@!!SUCK ABIG FAT&#*%&$*@!&%%*@&%%@#@$$LICKING**$&#$***&@#**
$&SMOKING*&#$**&%**&$#&&*&ASS!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhh...
Thank you.

and you say i spam? nice example mentor ;)

Discord
3rd Jun 2005, 11:36 AM
hey if you wanna see how the scorpion in ut2007 is check this video out ;)
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/746/746632/vids_1.html?fromint=1
BTW it has a rocket boost,an eject feature(self-destruct) and it fires rockets not that green blob thing in ut2004 ;)

Hey... not to sound skeptical or anything, but the only place I can find a statement that the new Scorp prim is rockets is BU, and that vid doesn't show the turret firing (just went over it like 4 times in fullscreen).

Anybody got a definitive source on that?

Re: bolas. Those do two things really really well: take out mantas and take down powernodes. For the rest they weren't nearly as effective (or at least easy to use) as the rest of the vehicle weapons. That, combined with slow movement, really seemed to hamper the scorpion for general use... and while it obviously has its fans, if you were to take a large sampling of ONS/ VCTF players and ask them which vehicle was most in need of a buff, they'd say likely say the Scorp.

IMO it's gotta be something, but I dunno if I want rox.

Anyway, source anybody?

Mythmon
4th Jun 2005, 10:02 PM
I think that the bolas should be kept (or at least transferred to another vehicle, perhaps necris, it just doesn't seem to fit the other vehicles...) though i would improve them by making them more like a sticky rope with plasma grenades on it, or a net with grenades, like what was suggested before. but that would probaly need an air vehicle, and to make it tie up/slow down opponents would be kindof cheap... unless you could make it destructible....

Any way, thats my $0.02

PS, i think the slefdestruct thing will be cool, and i think the grapple on the hellbender would be awesome.

carmatic
5th Jun 2005, 01:30 PM
i think that the bolas that are shot should have a trace between the sticky balls, and when something gets in the way of the trace, it snags the projectile... that way its much easier to catch people on foot, plus the net should be elastic or something so if one part catches a character and another stick to the ground or something, then the character will be stuck to that place

CheekyDevil
6th Jun 2005, 12:59 AM
Giving it a turbo booster instead of blades is a terrific idea though -and a detonating scorpion - better still.

Who said the Scorp's blades were being replaced? You can clearly see them in use in the G4 E3 vid.

rhirud
6th Jun 2005, 04:31 AM
But if there's one button to shoot, another for turbo boost\detonate, and another for blades; either this vehichle either has three "fire" buttons; or they are droping the blades.

SirYawnalot
6th Jun 2005, 06:20 AM
They'd probably bind turbo-boost to the jump or walk keys.

JaFO
6th Jun 2005, 07:10 AM
Discord']Hey... not to sound skeptical or anything, but the only place I can find a statement that the new Scorp prim is rockets is BU, and that vid doesn't show the turret firing (just went over it like 4 times in fullscreen).

Anybody got a definitive source on that?
..
Now that you mention it ... I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere except on BU. I think it was from the PC Gamer article, so that might explain the mistake.
Let's hope they stay in in some form.

That said ... they don't really fit the 'advanced human military'-theme of the Axxon-vehicles. I think they would look more at home on a more alien-style Necris-style vehicle.

Israphel
6th Jun 2005, 08:02 AM
But if there's one button to shoot, another for turbo boost\detonate, and another for blades; either this vehichle either has three "fire" buttons; or they are droping the blades.

Nope the blades are definitely IN...You can see them (along with some nice rag-doll physics) in the E3 demo. I guess the boost button could be a combo type thing, or a button on the keyboard. Then I guess if you hit exit vehicle while it is actually in a boost, you'll eject and the Scorp will detonate on impact.

As for vehicle tweaks...well alots been said already about the weapons, but little about the movement/control. I would really like to see the vehicle physics totally re-done to try to make driving vehicles like the 'bender and the scorp feel a lot more weighty and fun. I don't like Halo at all, but the way the Hogg feels to drive, the fact that it actually feels as though it's in contact with the ground and has some weight is superb. When you jump a Hogg, it feels like it's airborn, and when it hits the ground, it feels really solid....that's just not the case in UT2k4.
I also find that sometimes, the merest change in incline will spin the bender, scorp and SPMA around too much...I'd like the vehicles to feel like the have suspensions that take me straight over stuff like that, not spin me 180.
This is true of the Goliath, sometimes when you're driving across a map, you hit a sligh change in incline on one side and it pushes the tank in a way you don't want to go. This is supposed to be a heavy tank with all it's treads on the ground, I don't want it to be turned so easily, I want it to go in a straight line and absorb the bump...sure I want it to look like it's going over the bump, but it seems that an object as heavy and with a grip on the ground like a tank is turned far too easily.

There are also issues with gravity and getting snags, especially on the earlier maps and especially in the tank. You can drive it over a cliff (like the central ravine in Torlan) gets bizarrely stuck onto the side of the wall half way down, as though it's snagged in the vegetation or something. This also happens on ramps (Icarus, Tricky), when the tank just won't move and it's utterly ludicrous as the weight of the tank should take it down.

This sounds like I'm criticizing harshly, I've played ONS pretty much most days since it's release and love it. For Epics first crack at a vehicle based gametype it's pretty awesome, but it can be improved, and the things I've outlined above occasionally really irritate me. After playing it this much, you learn to get used to it and drive in a way that gets around these things...but I'd like to not have to do that, I'd like the vehicles to feel their weight and feel more solid.

Oh yeah, it would be great if Epic could incorporate something in the AI of the bots that made them stop just a second before they jump in a vehicle. When I'm playing on a server which has bots, maps like Crossfire and Torlan get really annoying when the bots shoot off with the vehicles, and DON'T use them well, leaving me in base waiting for a node to come up so I can teleport and get a ride (and in Torlan, there's often still no freaking vehicle left at the first node).

Oakwarrior
7th Jun 2005, 09:38 AM
That's freakingly frustrative to me too. Sometimes I manage to get the vehicle when I shoot it out from under the bot's nose. Avril is good.

BooGiTyBoY
7th Jun 2005, 02:32 PM
and you say i spam? nice example mentor ;)


Well see the difference is I already posted in this thread with constructive comments and stayed on topic with the thread. This particular post was an expression of my opinion towards the topic of the thread and was in no way just a lame comment to boost my post count.

Unlike other people who start "Why do people like Halo so much" threads in a UT2007 forum. :shake:

Kthanxbai. :stick:

Sorry.. you lose. Please try again.

Oakwarrior
7th Jun 2005, 02:55 PM
Oh yeah, it would be great if Epic could incorporate something in the AI of the bots that made them stop just a second before they jump in a vehicle.

Hehe, now with the upcoming Voice AI (or whatever) you can say:

"Echo, get the f**k out of that Manta!" :cake:
"Roger that, Blue Leader"

:eek2:

Majik
8th Jun 2005, 10:03 AM
*Long post*

Very good post, Israphel, and I wholeheartedly agree on the subject of physics.

The physics for vehicles in UT2k7 is what I believe will be the most noticeable difference compared with their UT2k4 counterparts. However, I'm not sure how they're going to handle weight distribution for the scorpion and similar vehicles without an analogue steering method (mouse, controller etc.), which I think is part of the reason why the warthog felt a lot more weighty with the increased level of control. Of course we have the handbrake, but it didn't allow you to slide with the entire vehicle, which is something I hope we'll be able to do in UT2k7. It'd probably be easier to run people down if we were able to do so...and more fun too. :)

JaFO
8th Jun 2005, 10:49 AM
Like in Carmaggeddon-game ... handbrake-turn + open doors = another pedestrian bites the big one.
Of course we've got the Skorpion and it's blades for that ... :)

kafros
8th Jun 2005, 11:36 AM
Replying to original Post:

Goliath damage must be super powered keeping in mind that the oposite team's firepower concentrates on the goliath (which is a nice target even across the map with the SR).

Raptor is also OK. It is the hardest vehicle to drive (..ok fly) with ppl hitting u with their SR, LG (they can see you but you cannot see them..at least not fast enough). SR owns the raptor so much I cannot see any reason to complain about the splash damage.

What I would like to see is the damage affecting the way the vehicle drives/operates. As it is now i am happily shoting away from my "goliath in flames" having 24/800 armor lol.

How about these? (in case armor drops below 30%)

The scorpion having a flat tire.

A manta's left blade stop operating causing a small drift effect

A raptors engine catching fire causing drift and/or stall

The goliath move slower?

Trueblood
8th Jun 2005, 12:03 PM
manta ruins things i say.
I`d rather see a bike in its place, with guns on it of course ;)
(think of Judge dread and the law master)

carmatic
8th Jun 2005, 01:20 PM
They'd probably bind turbo-boost to the jump or walk keys.

or they can do it like the rocket launcher... hold down both fire buttons to engage teh third mode

As for vehicle tweaks...well alots been said already about the weapons, but little about the movement/control. I would really like to see the vehicle physics totally re-done to try to make driving vehicles like the 'bender and the scorp feel a lot more weighty and fun. I don't like Halo at all, but the way the Hogg feels to drive, the fact that it actually feels as though it's in contact with the ground and has some weight is superb. When you jump a Hogg, it feels like it's airborn, and when it hits the ground, it feels really solid....that's just not the case in UT2k4.

yeah, i agree here, the vehicles in ut2k4 are pure netcode, they move more like players than real vehicles, like they are simply coded with different actions (spin out etc) instead of being actually affected by real physics... in fact they are alot like character models, with only spinning animations for wheels and suspension(shoot grenades at any vehicles wheels and you see they are not real wheels,also when the scorpion or hellbender comes to a sudden stop you can tell the wheels are playing the 'stopping' animation) and bits that move around to show where they are aiming... the bulldog from ut2k3 however was a real vehicle (with wheels ,proper momentum, traction, etc)but it was impossible to execute over the network and really looked like it had a different plane of existence because it lagged behind players so badly,and most of the time it just crashed the server... so the 2k4 vehicles are severely physics-stripped to make onslaught a possibility, but in the future we dont have to worry about 56k players anymore (hopefully) so bandwidth-heavy stuff like simulating vehicles can be done...

gregori
8th Jun 2005, 02:21 PM
faster!

gregori
8th Jun 2005, 02:24 PM
also i rather like the vehicle physics in GTA: vice city, they're a whole bunch of fun,
if they can make it that tanks seem appropiately heavy i'll be impressed! a tank fallin from a height should rock the ground!

Unreality
8th Jun 2005, 06:25 PM
a tank should actually be able to flip over while falling not go weeee i'm a light as a feather tank that swings forward and backwards -.- oh and more possibilities with stunt vechile for a good time ^^

Discord
8th Jun 2005, 09:25 PM
a tank should actually be able to flip over while falling not go weeee i'm a light as a feather tank that swings forward and backwards -.- oh and more possibilities with stunt vechile for a good time ^^

Originally, the tank hovered (ie, had no treads). I'm guessing that some elements of the hover were kept in owing to technical problems with making realistic treads that deformed to the terrain the way wheels do on the scorpion and hellbender.

Hopefully, the new physics engine/ increased polycount will solve all that and we'll be treated to a fully functional tank.

Which, incidentally, will plummet and tumble properly when driven off a cliff.

MxX
9th Jun 2005, 12:57 AM
Replying to original Post:

Goliath damage must be super powered keeping in mind that the oposite team's firepower concentrates on the goliath (which is a nice target even across the map with the SR).

Raptor is also OK. It is the hardest vehicle to drive (..ok fly) with ppl hitting u with their SR, LG (they can see you but you cannot see them..at least not fast enough). SR owns the raptor so much I cannot see any reason to complain about the splash damage.

What I would like to see is the damage affecting the way the vehicle drives/operates. As it is now i am happily shoting away from my "goliath in flames" having 24/800 armor lol.

How about these? (in case armor drops below 30%)

The scorpion having a flat tire.

A manta's left blade stop operating causing a small drift effect

A raptors engine catching fire causing drift and/or stall

The goliath move slower?

that would make it more realistic, and for the siege tank there would be a self destruction mode cool (bigger than normal redeemer *lol*)

BooGiTyBoY
9th Jun 2005, 03:43 AM
I'd like to see more FF from blown up vehicles. If you blow up a tank and there's 2 people sitting 2 feet behind trying to heal it with their link guns.. they should go splatty when that thing goes up as well.

MxX
9th Jun 2005, 04:36 AM
Yap, this would strenghten the reality a little bit more *g*

well instead of making a whole necris set of cars, there could be vehicles by the other races too in the game.

a fast gen mo`kai vehicle, an egyptian "warbird", or just a small rolling jug-fortress, would make things better I think *g* or just more vehicle sets! Show us the technique of the others too :) or a small machine like the battlemechs! That would be awesome *g*

Oakwarrior
9th Jun 2005, 04:42 AM
Egyptians are acrobatic, so the warbird is a good idea ;)
Too bad that the Gen Mo'kai are goners. I really liked them. Racial vehicles are a very good idea. I want to see racial starting weapons too.

rhirud
9th Jun 2005, 05:53 AM
Effects when a vehichle becomes critically dammaged would be great fun. I don't really like degredation though. Blowing the tracks off tanks\wheels off levis will be fine - as long as it can only be done by grenades. If you can immobilise them from a distance; that would be far too limiting.

But when a scorpion reaches 5 health or less, triggerring it's self destruct sequence; when a tank reaches 5 health, it's tracks would drop off; or the equivalent of 2-3 shells going off inside it; when a cicada/raptor reaches 5 health, it looses power and plummets to the ground - that would all be fun. It wouldn't happen all that often, since it would be rare for a vehichle to have a health of 0-5 - usually it would have suffered critical dammage. It would just add in a little more variety and chaos. And chaos is good.

Majik
9th Jun 2005, 09:25 AM
I just thought of something I'd like to add.

What I'd like to see them do is to set a small delay (half a sec or so) when switching positions in vehicles. That way it'd be harder for people to switch from the driver position to the skymine-cannon position in a hellbender or from driver to gunner in a cicada etc. As it is now I think it's just way to easy for a single player to handle multiple positions in vehicles that are supposed to be at least twice as effective when manned by multiple players. IMO this doesn't really promote teamwork and I hope that by handicapping players that bugger off all alone in a hellbender will do just that.

winx
9th Jun 2005, 11:08 AM
Manta could launch a tracker. And then cyou can see every vehicules you tracked on the minimap. Kinda good against sneakin attacks(i guess, i dont play much ons so i dont know the dynamics of a REAL match.. would this be usefull?)

MxX
9th Jun 2005, 11:26 AM
would make a mobile station, which can repair, heal and so on... make sense?

BooGiTyBoY
9th Jun 2005, 11:41 AM
I remember someone made a "medic truck" model (or was it a hallbender mutator) that had health and ammo in the back of it...
Was that 2k4 or am I thinking of a different game.
(Could have sworn it was for 2k4...)

Oakwarrior
10th Jun 2005, 04:33 AM
It was for UT2k4. I think I have it somewhere...

rhirud
10th Jun 2005, 04:56 AM
A manta can usually take out a tank - so it wouldn't be all that useful for a manta.

But to have a new vehichle with very light armour for rapid transport\reconnacance; which can tag and identify other vehichles; and then give his whole team a warning when that vehichle is approaching. I can see that could be useful - especially if the new game has some new heavy vehichles.

The tags could also allow an avril to track a tagged vehichle better. So for example, if a raptor is tagged, then another raptor shooting at it would have an advantage - for example a faster, and a more rapidly turning missile - so this would encourage teamplay - one would tag and his teammates would then have the advantage when attacking.

That's a really interesting concept.

Unreality
10th Jun 2005, 08:36 AM
i don't see how the tag in itself could work point at something and its tagged ?

edhe
10th Jun 2005, 09:52 AM
Projectile flare.

Does sound interesting, actually. Tagged vehicles would show on the radar.

But you'd only be able to have 1, maybe 2 tags so one guy can't light up the whole of the enemy team.

carmatic
10th Jun 2005, 05:13 PM
or, have some vehicles that have the ability to transfer data to your minimap, when they see a vehicle, you have an icon representing them on your mimimap, ala 'fog of war' in strategy games...or for really huge maps like in conquest, anything to help keep the game flowing and stop people from getting lost would be nice, like instead of just the simple comet effect that follows botpaths, players should be able to navigate through the HUD,not just icons and direction pointers but mechwarrior-style wireframe overlays that roughly outline the landscape and stuff .... they tried to make something like this in real life, they call it 'augmented reality' or something

anyway, maybe this ability to let other people see the enemy vehicles and stuff on their minimap should be limited to a few vehicles, like a manta....

how about, like , on normal character models you have a region for headshots... if vehicles can have multiple regions that can suffer damage to affect the performance , it would be cool... like , the engine, propulsion (wheels , thrusters, etc), weapons, support (suspension, wings, whatever) , and stuff.... like, they will almost certainly be hit at random just like headshots are almost always luck for most people, but if someone is sharp enough (or when it is like the pilot of a cicada switches to the gunner seat in mid air) , they can shoot a specific place with a sniper weapon and destroy the vehicle quickly ... like in gta:san andreas, when you shoot the fuel tank of a car, you destroy it immideately

FireCrack
10th Jun 2005, 07:51 PM
Shoot the fuel tank of a raptor or cicada and watch it plummet!


It would be cool if the sniper scope could hilight these areas.

Salvatore
11th Jun 2005, 09:02 PM
You could have the Link Gun repair that part too! Like zap the treads of a tank for a few seconds, or (somehow) fix up the engines before it hits the ground :P

How about a vehicle that gets stronger when damaged? Something like the scorpion losing some armour plating and getting faster, or the hellbender's reactor growing unstable and damaging units nearby it.

FireCrack
11th Jun 2005, 10:53 PM
Getting stronger when damaged would become too confusing IMO. Nothing wrong with destroyed vehicles blowing up bigger, when a levi gets destryed for example, anything within 50m = false.

gades
12th Jun 2005, 02:14 AM
I don't tend to play onslaught much nowadays, but yeah, the splash damage from the goliath is a bit overkill, at least against infantry. But then again, against OTHER vehicles, it's good (especially against mantas, if you're a good driver).

I've got no beef with the splash damage from Raptors, hell, they're taking quite a risk being in the sky period.

The manta is a bit overpowered, it ran run over infantry easily, it can outrun virtually anything else (even avrils), it can carry whole freaking armies to where they need to be, in 5 seconds.
:cool:

Mulch_D
13th Jun 2005, 12:57 AM
I want to see momentium I'm sick of getting gibbed by a hellbender going slower than 1 Km/h, wile I'm not saying that wouldn't hurt, if I don't die from a rocket launcher in the face why the hell does bing hit by a 4 by 4 going snale pace cause me to explode into a thousand pieces.
Rant over.

Doikor
13th Jun 2005, 10:38 AM
Make standing on top of manta (or wing) impossible.
Thats really all i wanto see changed :D

MxX
13th Jun 2005, 12:00 PM
it would be cool if players are able to crawl under tanks, like in real life, or crouch in holes and the tanks rides over you while you smash a grenade into his chains, which destroyes the chanin, making the tank nearly unable to move further.
That would give a realistic touch ;)

thatcher
13th Jun 2005, 02:33 PM
I think movement (speed/manoeuvreability/precision of aim) should be effected with increasing damage in all vehicles.

re Scorpion: bola is the only effective vehicle weapon against Mantas in the entire game - must keep it. Blades are useless against infantry who see you coming, so a rocket would be better as secondary fire (scrap blades).

re HellBender: my favourite vehicle - though I wish the driver had some amount of short-range, low-power anti-infantry weapon (assult rifle style?)

re Goliath: need to give second position 2 fire modes (anti-aircraft) and MUST improve viewing targets directly above.

re Manta, Raptor, Levi: like them as they are. Hope map-makers use Levi less. (;))

re Energy Turrent: (classing them as a stationary vehicle) viewing is often messed up by nearby structures, otherwise fine.

gregori
13th Jun 2005, 04:20 PM
it'd be nice if vehicles had more evident acceleration and transfared their momentum in collisions with everything,

DaBeatard
17th Jun 2005, 09:21 AM
I would like to see-

All vehicles have ammo supplies. No more unlimited spamming from the tank etc. Make the shots count and risk having to get more ammo for it.

Way less vehicles per map. Like 1/2 as many vehicles as you usuall find in ONS maps now.

rhirud
17th Jun 2005, 02:27 PM
I would like to see-

All vehicles have ammo supplies. No more unlimited spamming from the tank etc. Make the shots count and risk having to get more ammo for it.

Way less vehicles per map. Like 1/2 as many vehicles as you usuall find in ONS maps now.

Can't see ONS working with less vehichles. Take Dawn, where there is insufficient vehichles - the map just gets stuck -and once you get a manta, for example, once you die, you pick up ammo for 30s and then get ready for it's respawn. So some players get the vehichle all game, others get no vehichles for the whole game.

A goliath that could shoot upwards would be way overpowered. If the shell had no splash, it would have no chance against mantas.

XaN
20th Jul 2005, 03:15 AM
they should tweak the scorpion instead of the blades the should add chainsaw's