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View Full Version : Wall run? hmmm...


Strider_Izzy
26th May 2005, 09:36 PM
I think the ut2k7 should have wall running. I mean the game already has dodging and all that and wallrunning would be a new addition to the dodging mechanism. Think about it! rockets coming your way nowhere to go,cant dodge, them... WALL RUN! it would be fair because when u do WR u wont be able to do it for long and your enemy knows where to hit u if they are any good.


Tell me what u think?

Xaero_UT
26th May 2005, 09:47 PM
could be possible, with the ability to dodge from the wall. like prince of persia.

however, using it may cheapen some levels and get to places easier. + think of its use on ctf.....(epic has said, theyre toning down regular dodge so that, its more realistic, then making a wall run, kind of disagreeing on themselves there)

however, i say yes, but id have to see it first

Strider_Izzy
26th May 2005, 10:28 PM
i was thinkin like u could only wall run so much. u know that kind of a thing. like an extra boost to your wall dodge. itd be awesome to c ppl doin that and maybe the host of the server can have the option of allowing it. i dont know thats what i think. WR would boost the feel of a tournament. the games really taking the road from a futuristic bloodsport to a war game. its cool but i think it should stick to its roots.

Discord
27th May 2005, 12:26 AM
however, i say yes, but id have to see it first

Consider it done.

http://jediarchives.ca/index.php?page=downloads&type=entry&id=7

-AEnubis-
27th May 2005, 01:10 AM
Well, in the spirit of maintaining mostly realistic movement, the wall kick is as close to a wall run as you can really get.

Honestly, I'd like them to go back to no double jump, and if hey wanted to spuce up the movement, keep the wall kick, regular dodge, and maybe add a rolldodge. Combined with the IH, that should be plenty. Something maybe more balanced then a wall run, would be like a wall grab... When near a wall, hold crouch, and grab the wall for a second... option to kick off before or shortly after you fall.

Maybe allow a second jump near a wall. So that once against a wall, you have 2 possible trajectory's to bounce from it...

empty_other
27th May 2005, 01:40 AM
It wouldnt be totally unrealistic with wallrun... I made a 3 step wallrun once (in RL).

I agree with you, AEnubis.

FireCrack
27th May 2005, 01:44 AM
What angle wall?

T2A`
27th May 2005, 02:32 AM
If they're making the movements more "realistic," hopefully they're revert to walldodging not negating any previous momentum so that you can push off the wall backwards after you hit a jump pad and continue both upwards and backwards like in UT2003, though at a lessened upward velocity than otherwise. That kind of movement is fun and gives some new life to trick jumping, while making it more difficult to exploit walldodges. In UT2003, if you were falling and walldodged, you'd kick off the wall alright, but without cancelling your downward momentum, so instead of falling straight down, you'd go at an angle (imagine walldodging in Real Life™) and you also couldn't double jump because you're vertical velocity would be too great. This all lessens crazy movements based on walldodging. It's actually hard to walldodge to the LtG on Campgrounds in UT2003 because you have to hit the walldodge perfectly at the peak of your jump. In UT2004, you can wait until you've fallen a bit from the peak of your jump and walldodge at the perfect time, but in UT2003, you'd just push off, miss the chance to double jump, and fall to the ground. Now, I don't particularly like this part too much because there should be some freedom in the movement system, so maybe some kind of check is in order to guage your movement speed to see whether or not your walldodge should cancel vertical velocity or not (i.e. if it's low, reset it on the dodge). Of course, this system of movement in UT2003 led to the boost dodge, and I don't want to see that thing return. I would hope they could come up with a way to disable boost dodging other than the current solution...

Enough rambling. :o

-AEnubis-
27th May 2005, 04:24 AM
Heh, yeah, it wasn't harder in 2003, you simply had to wall kick way earlier... in a "boost" like fashion. You can achieve a lot of the same horizontal distances now with a double jump > wall kick, or a jump > late wallkick > jump. You just can't use the jump momentum with the dodge momentum to maximize both horizontal and vertical distances at the same time (50a jump on asbestos).

Wall kicking in 2k3 did slightly alter your downward momentum, just lessening instead of canceling, but it was much more realistic then it is now. I agree that should return, but you know how I feel about the boost, I wouldn't mind seeing it return either.

I do miss doing on compressed, the lift jump > wallkick > jump to the shock/rox. The sniper bounce > wallkick/shieldboost > jump to the 100a on CG was pretty sick too. That opened up all kinds of possibilities.

1337
27th May 2005, 02:18 PM
The sniper bounce > wallkick/shieldboost > jump to the 100a on CG was pretty sick too. That opened up all kinds of possibilities.
You can still get from sniper to 100a without touching ground without weapon boosting. But it's true CampGrounds in ut2k4 sucks. CG was a good ut2k3 map because you weren't so limited on what paths you could take. Like you could boost to the 2nd level from the 1st almost anywhere on the map. And those little lamp holder things in the wall could actually be utilized just like they should be. ut2k3 CG >> ut2k4 CG


Also I'm not sure how much it would be worth to put in a wall running movement system into the game. Because the hitbox would rotate and it might just be more annoying than cool if not imlemented properly. Plus it would seem a bit strange wall running with the fov still horizontally aligned.

T2A`
27th May 2005, 03:19 PM
I don't see why the boost dodge should return if they want a more realistic, less jumpy state for the game. It's physically impossible because it's two separate moves combined into one and was just a quirk of the movement system rather than something they planned for. Continued vertical velocity on a walldodge makes perfect sense, but they need to get it done without having the boost dodge available, IMO.

-AEnubis-
27th May 2005, 03:25 PM
If they can do that, I'd imagine they will. New engine = new physics. Maybe they will be able to cap the maximum accelleration a player pawn can achieve from normal movement momentums, so that doing a "boost-dodge" will only carry the strength of the jump, and not the jump and the dodge, but still have the direction modified.

I just really don't think you achieved that much more extra distance for it to be an issue. It really did fit into the "exadgerated realism" category IMO. More so then a wall run would.

Sir_Brizz
27th May 2005, 04:30 PM
Notice that in UT2004, boost dodging is almost never used during a game anymore. It's usefulness in UT2004 was destroyed.

Strider_Izzy
27th May 2005, 06:46 PM
no not a mod, but a another dodging technique. maybe u could use it to dodge spider mines for a bit or use it to dodge projectiles. like firecrack said maybe the way should be at an angle. in ut2k4 i dont remember sliding off an angle but maybe in ut2k7 the new physics will allow a temporary wall run like to or 3 seconds. think of it like tony hawk. u could wallride in that and it did throw it off... wait that didnt kill the game it was the exaggerated air u got,but besides that it could be added to the insane acrobatics that this future bloodsport has.i know their tuning the movement down but they should have a bit of amaze to it. dont u think?

-AEnubis-
27th May 2005, 11:24 PM
If it was like a tony hawk wall ride, then it wouln't be excessively usefull, because you barely put any traction for direction control on the wall then. It can more or less be compared to aircontrol now, only difference really being that "it's not animated as a wall run." Maybe if it slowed your fall a bit or something... Bottom line is, I think it would be mostly for show, and less then functional if it wasn't over-exaggerated.

@Brizz: No, boost dodging is no longer existant anymore. Wall kicks cancel all previous momentum, so doing so would cancel and waste your jump momentum. It's more profitable to jump > Kick > jump, or jump > jump > kick, all at the apexes of the jumps.

Sir_Brizz
28th May 2005, 01:29 AM
If it was like a tony hawk wall ride, then it wouln't be excessively usefull, because you barely put any traction for direction control on the wall then. It can more or less be compared to aircontrol now, only difference really being that "it's not animated as a wall run." Maybe if it slowed your fall a bit or something... Bottom line is, I think it would be mostly for show, and less then functional if it wasn't over-exaggerated.

@Brizz: No, boost dodging is no longer existant anymore. Wall kicks cancel all previous momentum, so doing so would cancel and waste your jump momentum. It's more profitable to jump > Kick > jump, or jump > jump > kick, all at the apexes of the jumps.
Actually, if you try it it still exists. However, your vertical momentum is for the most part lost.

T2A`
28th May 2005, 02:24 AM
Nah; it's gone. All that's happening is you're jumping then immediately walldodging, which cancels any previous upward momentum. But, since you did walldodge, you go higher/further than just a regular dodge. On a walldodge, the code calls whatever method is needed to check for fall damage, so as far as the game is concerned, your vertical velocity is gone the moment you walldodge. Thus... No boost dodge. :)

EL BOURIKO
28th May 2005, 10:03 AM
Wall run.... mmmhhh!!? well... not on straight walls or corners but ONLY on curved walls then... to make a rough description of it, it could be some kind of run along a straight wall, when the wall starts to curve, then we wall jump and we run diagonaly up as long as the gravitation forces us to fall down. If so, it could be a nice technical move combo to reach special spots or go over some dangerous stuff like lava or goo pool if well designed. (some kind of "curved vertical" bridge in a way)
But next stage would be then to add loops and reverse tracks and then we get "SONIC" Tournament 2007!!! LOL
Anyway, if i am not wrong Epic wants to adjust the actual moves to make them less acrobatic, so I fear that this wall jump idea will never be considered by the programmers :-(

Sir_Brizz
28th May 2005, 11:59 AM
Nah; it's gone. All that's happening is you're jumping then immediately walldodging, which cancels any previous upward momentum. But, since you did walldodge, you go higher/further than just a regular dodge. On a walldodge, the code calls whatever method is needed to check for fall damage, so as far as the game is concerned, your vertical velocity is gone the moment you walldodge. Thus... No boost dodge. :)
I've done it several times. The only way to get it to work consistently is to raise your dodge double clcik time. It gives you a spot more vertical height, but pretty much zero momentum. The eason why you don't see it happening all the time is because the delay is much tighter to pull off a proper boost.

-AEnubis-
28th May 2005, 04:27 PM
I think we are defining the "boost" by the gain in momentum, not the actual button sequence timing...

Sir_Brizz
29th May 2005, 12:34 AM
well afaik you get a tad more horizontal momentum, just no vertical.