Do we really need hitscan?

1337 · May 15, 2005

Do we really need it? I think they should ditch it if they want to have a more variety of weapons being used in the outdoor maps that we'd be seeing in Conquest mode. If the netcode permits it ofcourse. Not sure how well they'd be able to make netcode for super fast flying projectiles, however.

I seriously think the more projectiles the better.

Israphel · May 15, 2005

I'm really crap with hitscan and therefore wouldn't really miss it a great deal...it would be one thing that might level the playing field a little between expert and new players.
But having said that, I simply can't see a UT game without the Shock Rifle.

I'd also like to see projectiles move a little faster, especially rockets, along with a projectile weapon that replaces the sniper rifle and LG, something with a zoom that fires projectiles, but not bullets, like a railgun or something. The projectile could move a little faster than the tank shell...not hitscan, but very very fast.

Tenkken · May 15, 2005

I think conquest makes hitscan even more necessary; think about the distance. Also hitscan is not only used in a 1v1 distanced dm match, sr and lg are necessary to take down a raptor or manta.

BooGiTyBoY · May 15, 2005

Tribes: V uses projectile weapons in huge outdoor environments. It also has vehicles that need to be shot down with them as well. It's been proven a non-hitscan game is very viable.

Dark Pulse · May 15, 2005

Hitscan should still stay in, but it should be trimmed to only a few weapons. UT99 did this well - the only Hitscan weapons were Enforcers, Shock, Mini, Pulse Secondary, and Sniper. The rest were all projectile of some kind.

They also had a way to get around it - Enforcers had a slow ROF, Shock had a pretty slow Primary ROF, Mini, well, you could drain your bullets dry if your opponent was evasive, Pulse Secondary had a pretty short range, and the Sniper... well, the Sniper was overbalanced. But something like 2k4's Lightning Gun made it a good weapon - just enough ROF to not be spammy, but still plenty deadly if you got pegged. Perhaps less damage for non-headshots though, so as to discourage using it to peg opponents to death... 70 is VERY nasty. Even the 99 Sniper only did like 45 unless you got shot in the head.

T2A` · May 16, 2005

Dark Pulse said:
Hitscan should still stay in, but it should be trimmed to only a few weapons. UT99 did this well - the only Hitscan weapons were Enforcers, Shock, Mini, Pulse Secondary, and Sniper. The rest were all projectile of some kind.

A) Sounds like the current Tournament. B) "The only hitscan weapons were everything except everything that wasn't."

Also, I think the UT sniper did 60-something damage or more.

Yes, we need hitscan in this game. We also need the shock rifle, as it is, without a doubt, the coolest weapon in the history of FPS. What we need is hitscan that isn't so dominating. We need there to be a real reason to learn projectile weapons as much as point-and-click. There are numerous things they could tone down on the shock to balance it out a bit. Besides, if they get the player scale right in this version, hitscan won't be so powerful anyway. Regardless...

WE ALSO NEED OUR F*CKING LIGHTNING GUN BACK. WE DON'T WANT A PIECE OF ASS SNIPER RIFLE!

^ Hopefully Epic sees that.

SiN-BiN · May 16, 2005

Israphel said:
I simply can't see a UT game without the Shock Rifle.

BmB23 · May 16, 2005

Well... lets see SR LtG and other instant hit beam weapons should be the only ones carrying the dreaded hitscan virus... I mean treat.

edhe · May 16, 2005

Reducing the power of the LtG bodyshots back to not-insane would be good. Getting rid of the 1-2 shock/LtG frag, or LtG/MiniORlink combo as much.

kafros · May 16, 2005

I would feel naked in an ONS map without a SR to hit vehicles.

It is so nice against Raptors & mantas, and if you get some cover you can wreck camping Goliaths.

As said by many of you I cannot see a UT game without SR.

My only concerns with SR are pixelfrags and being placed in the air after a shot (you cannot dodge, which means if you get hit once then successive hits are more likely to come)

If they lowered the damage in proportion with distance and allowed the SR to push you but not prevent you from dodging, I think that there would be no need to change damage or ROF.

T2A` · May 16, 2005

Your last point sounds good, but I'm not sure how they would pull that off. The push comes from it knocking you into the air, and being in the air means you can't dodge. :hmm:

-AEnubis- · May 16, 2005

I doubt we will see it dissapear, simply because of difficulty in justifying a projectile based "shock beam" or "link-shaft". Reducing it greatly would make the remainder easy to balance, and that would be good.

Personally, I think shock beams and such makes it too easy to take out a vehicle on foot. I mean, a foot solider, vs a guy in a fighter craft shouldn't have such good odds of winning. As well, certain weapons, I feel shouldn't totally destory the vehicle, and retroactively, the pilot as well. If you took down a raptor with a minigun, disabling the vehicle, what again would prevent the pilot from bailing afterwards? I think there are some interesting un-thought of balance issues with vehicles, but that is the least of my concerns.

With average pings dropping though, reducing it and or nerfing it is a must. As long as this game remains somewhat "Sci-Fi" and retains the ASMD, it's elimination can't really be justified in the story content.

...and boogs is very correct about Tribes. You could very efficiently take out flying vehicles with a projectile based chain gun, you just had to triangulate a bit.

OMGSKILLHAX

Cursed_Soul · May 16, 2005

hitscan is an art on its own,
it takes at least some skill to keep your crosshair on a target.

8-4-7-2 · May 16, 2005

You need at least one hitscan weapon for longrange fighting. Otherwise you might as well just not fire at all until you are closer together.
Especially with a gamemode like Conquest which is even more about huge outdoor areas

Changing the vehicle explosions would be good. Instead of always exploding in mid-air, they could first tumble to the ground and give the pilot the chance to eject. Further firing would destroy them completely

krjal · May 16, 2005

Hmm, Enforcers, Stinger prim, Shock prim, Link sec, Ltg.... that should be enough I reckon. I think I'll just trust Epic on this one.

oh, and before I forget

WE ALSO NEED OUR F*CKING LIGHTNING GUN BACK. WE DON'T WANT A PIECE OF ASS SNIPER RIFLE!

LP · May 16, 2005

BooGiTyBoY said:
Tribes: V uses projectile weapons in huge outdoor environments. It also has vehicles that need to be shot down with them as well. It's been proven a non-hitscan game is very viable.

but that game bombed baaad!

The_Head · May 16, 2005

I would like to see a lot of hitscan go. ie the sniper could just have a really fast bullet. Lightning could should stay as it is (if they did bring it back like lots of people want)
Shock had better not change, except making the combo more balanced.

btw Sniper Rifle > Lightning Gun

Selerox · May 16, 2005

Less hitscan the better.

LP said:
but that game bombed baaad!

I think he meant the Tribes series in general, but point taken

BooGiTyBoY · May 16, 2005

Its not a matter of wether tribes was good or not.. just that its proven you can do a fully projectile game succesfully. Tribes didn't "bomb" because it was all projectile weapons.. it bombed due to crap-ass support, bugs galore, and a very bad time of release.

-AEnubis- · May 16, 2005

Vehicles could still maintain some long range hit-scan for conquest. Hellbender rear turret, Sentry Turrets, Goliath Mini-gun turret, etc...

My main concerns are for DM/CTF. Besides, sniping with a projectile sniper rifle at a long range would be no different then doing so with an LtG on a 100 ping. It would simply take some skill, as opposed to just reaction time.

Do we really need hitscan?

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