pdf filez, the suk?

[Dark[NSF]]

What do you think of those cursed pdf files?

[Azura]

They're ok. I just can't put my finger on what I don't like about them.

[Airmoran]

PDF's got its uses. It sure does a decent job of enforcing identical prints across computers.

What annoys me are the satanic cult nembers who think pdf is the wave of the future. Printing manuals, okay. Readme files? Ritualistically kill yourself.

[NeoNite]

What the hell is so bad about postcript data files?

(Because you included that silly third option in your poll...)

[Dark[NSF]]

What the hell is so bad about postcript data files?

(Because you included that silly third option in your poll...)


it's just irrating because it takes time to load and the same thing could be accomplished with HTML. =P Just because ou can't brag the page and move it doesn't maek it any worse. :lol:

[missPoopShoot]

For making documents from Quark etc. print ready, they're invaluable. I use InDesign though, ergo I truely love PDF. For designers they are such good things as the printers can't d*ck about with your carefully put together composition. Quark docs are a nightmare for that.

[stoned_jedi]

ive never boptherd installing acrobat reader so i must be a heathen

[Syri]

']it's just irrating because it takes time to load and the same thing could be accomplished with HTML. =P Just because ou can't brag the page and move it doesn't maek it any worse. :lol:
html can't be guaranteed to print exactly the same on any pc. pdf can

[T2A`]

I hate them, personally. I probably wouldn't if Acrobat or Adobe Reader or whatever the hell opens the files wasn't one of the most inefficiently-coded programs out there, but it is, so there's naught that I can do but hate the whole file format. The damn program takes up 30+ MB of RAM no matter the size of the PDF, and on my 2.8 GHz machine it takes the program a good few seconds to realize I've hit Ctrl-F to bring up the find text box. Oh, and don't expect the "select text" tool to be easy to use either. That would just be too convenient. :rolleyes:

So, basically, the idea behind the file format is nice, but the program used to view it sucks ass.

[W0RF]

PDF's got its uses. It sure does a decent job of enforcing identical prints across computers.

What annoys me are the satanic cult nembers who think pdf is the wave of the future. Printing manuals, okay. Readme files? Ritualistically kill yourself.
:stupid:

PDF is great for maintaining unaltered text and imprinting images. More versatile than an image file, more secure than a text file.

But yes, there is absolutely no reason to PDF a readme:
DM-OMG-LOL-DECK16-DEEMERCUBE-v27
For 16 players
shout out to mah p33ps in teh [@$$] clan:
- Hole
- Munch
- Fk
- Wipe
- Hat
- Kisser
- Man
- Imilate
- Tronaut
- Pect
- Inine
- j00_swing_t00_h4rd

BR SUX0RZ!
This belongs in a 2k Notepad file, not a 640k PDF file.

[zynthetic]

I've got pdf versions of my laptop service manual schematics, universal remote manual and Sun Tsu's Art of War. I'm sure UT, 2kX comes w/ pdf manuals also. They're pretty useful when the content is appropriate. It bugs the hell out of me when researching something and I find the link I clicked is just a newsgroup log opening in a pdf.

[Sam_The_Man]

They annoy me, especially for plain journal articles, but I suppose they're convenient for those that make them.

[O.S.T]

I can't stand them
people should use .JPGs instead(with the right pixel count it would be as big as a sheet of paper too, only less kb)

[Switch`]

I like PDF's.
What really annoys me are hordes of noobs who can't scan properly documents. Whole paragraphs of text (or random letters) stored as images instead of selectable text make copy-paste or searching kind of tricky.

[Agent_5]

So, basically, the idea behind the file format is nice, but the program used to view it sucks ass.
expert PDF reader (http://www.visagesoft.com/products/pdfreader/index.php)
foxit PDF reader (http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php)
many others and related software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format#External_links) - which happens to have a link to a tool named pdftohtml (http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/) for those who want it all in html.

[Tapeworm]

Random fact of the day: The new Nine Inch Nails album had no booklet with the cd like most regular albums do, instead the album lyrics, credits and artwork were released on the official website for download in .pdf format.

It's way bigger than an X-Box and kills pretty much most people's computers :cool:

It also costs about £30 to get printed (cheapest) :hmm:

[W0RF]

I can't stand them
people should use .JPGs instead(with the right pixel count it would be as big as a sheet of paper too, only less kb)
You can't search text on a JPG. :tdown:

[hyrulian]

I think PDFs are great, when they're properly used.

They're good because they guarantee that a complex formatted document will look and print anywhere exactly as you see it on your own screen. In fact, some documents I send people are in PDF format, just so I know they'll see it exactly the way it was when I saved it.

The thing that's given PDF notoriety is that people use it unnecessarily at times, particularly in schools. Some teachers have this thing about sending practically one-page, plain text documents that include, for example, a simple listing of what homework problems to do. Even worse, some teachers have even used PDFs as a way to include scanned pages, i.e. of written notes, when simple JPEG files would have been perfectly fine and even smaller in size. Those are the times that I really hate PDF.

[Metakill]

My whole desktop is in pdf format so I kind of prefer it.

[MÆST]

Don't like pdf's? ... just wait for Microsoft's new Metro file.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/27/0422250&from=rss

[JaFO]

there's one thing that's worse than pdf-files : Microsoft Word Docs.

Especially the kind of people that think everyone's got the latest MS Office and/or use it for simple readme-files. Some idiots even use them to e-mail screenshots ...

So no ... pdf isn't that bad at all.

[Balton]

So no ... pdf isn't that bad at all.

I wonder if you'll same the same after trying to open a pdf on one of the pc's at my work.
Not every company can afford constantly upgrading and acrobat reader does take some serious start up / load times.

[hyrulian]

Acrobat Reader 6 was notorious for taking forever to start up, but they've improved loading times in the latest version (7).

[Balton]

Acrobat Reader 6 was notorious for taking forever to start up, but they've improved loading times in the latest version (7).


that's nice and all so who's going to update that damn thing on every single computer when you dont have open access to the internet on all machines and not enough computer savy employes to do such work?
Y'know, when they're used properly they are good but it seems as if 80% of all pdf files should've been txt, html or should'Ve been copy pasted into an email.

edit: I think hardly any pc has even acrobat 6. more like 4-5. I'll look into that next time and might have a chat about outdated software at work... though I dont expect to have anything out of that.

[W0RF]

It sounds to me like PDF is not the problem, but stupid ppl using it for stupid reasons.

[Balton]

It sounds to me like PDF is not the problem, but stupid ppl using it for stupid reasons.


That's always the problem. stupid people doing what they're best at.

[hyrulian]

Here's my contribution.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~npena/OMGPDFFILE.pdf

[G-Lite]

What the hell is so bad about postcript data files?

(Because you included that silly third option in your poll...)

It actually stands for Portable Document Format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format). PostScript (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript) is a different format.

PDFs are great, for specific purposes. They render real nice on different platforms.

Personally, I prefer a proper XHTML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML) document instead of PDF, wherever possible. Though I'd really like to see where OpenDocument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument) is going.

Though none of the above will probably ever match the level of portability a PDF document has. Simply because a single document embeds everything necessary to render it the way it's supposed to look, anywhere.

Metro is going to be a failure in my book. Specifically, because it is exactly the same idea, not openly documented. Lots of editors out there support PDF export, in fact, on my Linux system, anything I can print can end up as a PDF. The only application that stubbornly refuses to support PDF is Microsoft Office. But for some reason it will suddenly support Metro documents ofcourse. Well, I don't really care how succesful Metro will be in the long run, I will stubbornly refuse to ever use it.

[hyrulian]

Lots of editors out there support PDF export, in fact, on my Linux system, anything I can print can end up as a PDF. The only application that stubbornly refuses to support PDF is Microsoft Office.
As an addendum to this, I use PDFCreator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/), which allows you do to that kind of thing in Windows too. And of course, that would make MS Office "support" PDF as well... :D

[JaFO]

// Balton :
I never meant to imply it was any good ...
Primary reason is that because of pdf-files publishers have a reason to stop printing decent manuals. They simply place a pdf-file on their disks and call it a day. Unless you've got multiple computers it's a real pain to install new stuff with the manual at hand. Especially given that Windows likes rebooting so much ...

// ---
Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in numbers.
Especially if said idiots are using MS Office and get to know this 'metro'-format.

Reason ? Those morons don't have the skill/brains required to figure out how to install a pdf-printer so they can create pdf-documents. As a result they'll become convinced that 'metro' is the thing to spread ...

[Metakill]

I do think its pretty lame to pass the printing costs onto the buyer. Thank you for a beautiful manual, UT2004.

[ElectricSheep]

I never had a real problem with PDF, but that might be because my entire operating system (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/pdf/) is built around (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/macos-x-gui/macos-x-gui-4.html) a display form of the technology.

I don't need to launch a separate viewer to deal with PDFs. I can see them right in my browser window. I can see them in my Finder. I can see them with my Image Preview Application. I can search inside of them for bits of text from a system-wide search tool. My screencaps are in PDF format. I can print anything on the screen strait to a PDF file without any formatting differences. I can drag and drop it to any application or open document.

PDF is just there, all of the time.

[G-Lite]

As an addendum to this, I use PDFCreator (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/), which allows you do to that kind of thing in Windows too. And of course, that would make MS Office "support" PDF as well... :D

That's neat, probably going to install that. Thanks. :)

[arcanex]

The problem with PDF is Adobe's readers.

If it's supposed to be "portable", why the hell do we need to upgrade to an even more bloated version of Acrobat reader every now and then? Because a new version of the PDF reader supports features not found in older ones? LMAO, so much for "portability".

[G-Lite]

Yeah, you really did read the thread, didn't you?

[arcanex]

Yeah, well, I could try any of those third party readers. Maybe they're not as bloated as Adobe's. But Adobe will just come up with something to break compatibility with those readers, making it so that it wouldn't look consistent across different readers and versions (which is the whole purpose of PDF), which will make it so that you'll have to update something to view it correctly. Which is stupid for something that's supposed to be "portable".

[I_AM{skullface}]

PDFs are wonderful in the world of design. We use them daily to send proofs to clients, lock documents down for external clients, create print on demand pieces, etc.

It's only when they're used improperly in web applications do I find them annoying. :)

-I_AM

[G-Lite]

Yeah, well, I could try any of those third party readers. Maybe they're not as bloated as Adobe's. But Adobe will just come up with something to break compatibility with those readers, making it so that it wouldn't look consistent across different readers and versions (which is the whole purpose of PDF), which will make it so that you'll have to update something to view it correctly. Which is stupid for something that's supposed to be "portable".

Uh... Bull****.

I've been viewing PDFs in Linux with third party readers properly since forever.

[_Zd_Revanchist_]

I have no issues on using pdf files. My uni uses them for the lecture notes on the internet and you dont have to worry about creating many files for cross platform support as they can be opened on Windows, Linux, Solaris, BSD, MacOS (iirc). Where as other file types dont have such support that are widely known. Wouldnt you find it annoying having to get various programs to view files from different locations in many different formats?

[.altan]

I never had a real problem with PDF, but that might be because my entire operating system (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/pdf/) is built around (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/macos-x-gui/macos-x-gui-4.html) a display form of the technology.

I don't need to launch a separate viewer to deal with PDFs. I can see them right in my browser window. I can see them in my Finder. I can see them with my Image Preview Application. I can search inside of them for bits of text from a system-wide search tool. My screencaps are in PDF format. I can print anything on the screen strait to a PDF file without any formatting differences. I can drag and drop it to any application or open document.

PDF is just there, all of the time.

My in-laws purchased my old IBM PC and when it finally died, I suggested that they get a Mac. With Windows, only my mother-in-law used it to check emails. They were constantly in fear of making a serious mistake, and all too often I was over at their house fixing software problems.

Now they are proud owners of an eMac. My father-in-law gets so excited, sometimes teary-eyed, about his computer, he thanks me up and down every time I visit. He shows off his eMac to everyone who comes over. While he wouldn’t touch the old PC, today he is creating iPhoto slideshows with music, reacquainting with old friends in Europe and wants to get into digital photography.

The family took the hint and we bought him a digital camera for Christmas.


























I was going to suggest that you apply but I bet they're paying you already

[T2A`]

I forgot to mention another reason I hate PDF files: Ever since I installed MS Office 2003, whenever I click a link that goes to a PDF file, Office says it's trying to install something. It'll pop up some window saying so, and if I let it go, it'll whine about the file SKU011.cab being missing. Thus, I have to hit cancel whenever this happens. But the window comes back, and keeps coming back, and I always end up hitting cancel six times before it'll even begin loading Adobe Reader and/or downloading the PDF. Even if I try to open a downloaded PDF when the Reader isn't already open it'll do this. This happens at no other time; only when I try to open PDF documents.

I tried looking for a solution to this, but MS says the file should be in some MSOCache folder under my C drive. Well, there is no MSOCache on my C drive, but it is in my D drive. I got the file from my roommate, put it in the correct folder, and it worked! Once. After my initial elation that I'd solved the problem, it came right back, and when I checked the folder, the cab file had been mysteriously deleted. WTF.

[Hadmar]

I forgot to mention another reason I hate PDF files: Ever since I installed MS Office 2003, whenever I click a link that goes to a PDF file, Office says it's trying to install something. It'll pop up some window saying so, and if I let it go, it'll whine about the file SKU011.cab being missing. Thus, I have to hit cancel whenever this happens. But the window comes back, and keeps coming back, and I always end up hitting cancel six times before it'll even begin loading Adobe Reader and/or downloading the PDF. Even if I try to open a downloaded PDF when the Reader isn't already open it'll do this. This happens at no other time; only when I try to open PDF documents.

I tried looking for a solution to this, but MS says the file should be in some MSOCache folder under my C drive. Well, there is no MSOCache on my C drive, but it is in my D drive. I got the file from my roommate, put it in the correct folder, and it worked! Once. After my initial elation that I'd solved the problem, it came right back, and when I checked the folder, the cab file had been mysteriously deleted. WTF.
Shouldn't you direct your hate to the correct target? You know, like MS Office or something?

[_Zd_Revanchist_]

isnt there some settings in office that allows you to set file associations? just uncheck that and also in windows control panel theres something to do with file associations. Its late and i am too lazy to check. Just clear the office ones and reset the windows to the pdf reader of your choice.

[JaFO]

pfff ... I'd simply get rid of MS Orifice instead. There's not a single feature in there you'd need for every day use plus it eats resources for breakfast, lunch and dinner as well. And for what ? Just to animate that ff-ing annoying paperclip I'd say ...

[Peregrine]

PDF's roxor my Boxors.

EASY OFFICE (the free alternative to MS Office) has a fre PDF creator included. ;)

T2A's problem is Microsoft...not Adobe...