Post 1773: The Past and Future of Unreal

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Dark Pulse

Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.
Sep 12, 2004
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darkpulse.project2612.org
Hello. I'd like to mark this moment, my 1,773rd post, with my thoughts and opinions on how Unreal's gone and how it will go.

Unreal has been seen, in my eyes, as the second-generation id - the Bad boys who came up and overturned the establishment as id had done five years before. One looks back now, seven years later, and arguably these guys have done far better then id has. Consider these 5 points:

1) Their next engine is going to be the next big leap in graphical tech. It's already said to support things like Dual core CPUs and separate Physics processors. This is the next big leap in Technology - it's like in 1993 when people were envious of a DX33 with 8 MB of RAM, or 1998 if you had a Voodoo.

2) Their engines have been lisenced far more then id's has. Needless to say, like them or hate them, MS buying your technology is something id can never claim. Unreal Engine is quite flexible, to the point you could make anything out of it (Even Puzzle games - anyone else here remember UTetris?) Flexibility means the Engine isn't seen as just a FPS engine - it can be Anything, given time and work.

3) Their games have won the "wars" with id: Every FPS gamer who's been around long enough damn well remembers the infamous "UT vs. Q3" war (Which ended with UT gaining a slight advantage.) Quake 3 offered the better graphics, with things like shaders and the like - stuff UT wouldn't see until the 200x Generation - but it lost in the Gameplay department. Now, I'm not knocking Q3 at all - I like them both, but I play UT more then I ever played Q3. This means Graphics does not necessarily make a good game, and that UT, which emphasized play over power, won out.

4) They support their community. Even on these very forums, Epic employees look at the community posts and no doubt we've influenced some decisions somewhere. A company that keeps its fans listens to them. Epic has done a good job of listening - proof of this is how UT2004 included a mode people missed, balanced stuff better, and took out a rather unliked theme of "Sports-Entertainment".

5) The MSU Contest. id has done nothing similar, and this makes lots of very good mods pop out. Look at Red Orchestra, 2004's MSU winner. A high-caliber mod, a breathtaking simulation, an absolute piece of art. These guys deserved the Engine lisence they got, and with that lisence, they became a full-fledged game developer - What was, for all intents and purposes, a bunch of average Joe and Jane Sixchips, are now working in the industry they love so dearly, and it's these guys who will be next Generation's CliffyB and John Romero (And yes, there will even be an Inoxx, somewhere. :)) CliffyB said the same thing in a pre-ECE interview that was showing off some of the mods included on the ECE. "Today's Mod developer is Tomorrow's game developer."

In a sense, then, Epic has become the "New" id - and they're continuing to set trends to break. Will they be toppled? Perhaps eventually. But it will take an amazingly talented team with a blockbuster hit or two to do it and win the "Competitive Multiplayer FPS" war.

Oh yeah, before CS Fanboys counter that it stomps UT in playercount and popularity: Let's not forget CS was a mod, not a retail product until much, much later. I don't count it. :p
 
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N@Sc

Aneurysm
May 23, 2004
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1) Their next engine is going to be the next big leap in graphical tech. It's already said to support things like Dual core CPUs and separate Physics processors. This is the next big leap in Technology - it's like in 1993 when people were envious of a DX33 with 8 MB of RAM, or 1998 if you had a Voodoo.
lol, yeh, my dad had a voodoo in his PC at that moment, very high tech stuff at that time =I
Their games have won the "wars" with id: Every FPS gamer who's been around long enough damn well remembers the infamous "UT vs. Q3" war (Which ended with UT gaining a slight advantage.) Quake 3 offered the better graphics, with things like shaders and the like - stuff UT wouldn't see until the 200x Generation - but it lost in the Gameplay department. Now, I'm not knocking Q3 at all - I like them both, but I play UT more then I ever played Q3. This means Graphics does not necessarily make a good game, and that UT, which emphasized play over power, won out.
well at that time i was 10, lol, quake 3 was the first shooter i got for myself and was surprised how good it actually looked, had no internet at that time so i only played with bots and eventually i threw quake3 aside and begann to play UT, and i mean, wow just wow, how much time i spend on that game just with bots, must have been 1,5 year non-stop UT, absolutely loved it and still do, definitly the best shooter out there made till now IMO :)
 

LooseCannon

... but it's not pink ... ooh yes it is!
Oct 27, 2004
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@Dark Pulse: :tup: Nicely put.



... and trully 1773 would be for this to be your last post, so your post count stays forever 1773. :p
 

Tenkken

Prizemoney
Oct 4, 2004
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New York City
I am in tears, kinda..

With all the ons arguments & stuff, it'd be a better accomplishment to write a do & don't list for Ons :D
 
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SlayerDragon

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLADIES
Feb 3, 2003
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:):tup: Nice post, DP.

I'm excited about the new engine - can't wait to see what will be done with it.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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Dark Pulse said:
Oh yeah, before CS Fanboys counter that it stomps UT in playercount and popularity: Let's not forget CS was a mod, not a retail product until much, much later. I don't count it. :p
Good points.

Let's also not forget that CS will run on every mom&pop chop shop junker that exists.
 

ThirtySixBelow

tactical inaccuracy
Feb 6, 2005
538
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Sir_Brizz said:
Good points.

Let's also not forget that CS will run on every mom&pop chop shop junker that exists.

And that it requires much less skill to be very good at. You really only have to be good at 1 weapon for each side. If you have decent aim you can get headshots pretty easy since there is no dodging and such. UT requires you to be good at a variety of weapons all at the same time to master the game. In competative events if facing an opponent of equal skill you will very rarely have a vast array of weapons and will have to rely on your current one for survival. You don't always get to choose which weapon you will have and the movement in ut compounds the need for great aim. CS will continue to be played by people who just arn't willing to try anything new. And yes, it was a mod so it doesn't really count as a game :)
 

menelik_seth

a.k.a 'Youngblood'
I'm pretty new to the UT community myself, and I'm very excited about this game (UT2k4). I've played Quake tho, and I love that game too (the nail gun r0x0rz).

Here in Jeddah, where I currently live, CS is far more popular than UT. Mostly because, as stated in previous posts; it's just a very bland and easy game to master. The game play is very slow paced and two dimensional; which I guess is fitting considering that it's more of a "tactical shooter"...

Anyway, most exclusive CS players I've met have stated that they just didn't fancy the fast pace, and over-the-top'ness of the UT games (and have stated as such). And some of 'em don't like the sci-fi weapons, and prefer more 'realistic' weaponry.

Personally, it's UT's "hard-core-ness" that has won me over. After an hour or so of UTfraggin', playin CS feels like walkin' in molasses, with flippers, wearin ankle weights while eatin' peanutbutter LOL... Too bad I'm havin a hard time findin many ppl to play with...

Anyways, I work for a small gaming center (which is still new and needs a lot of work done) but my plan is to make it a place that focuses more on UT, for regular scrims and tourneys... its gonna be tuff tho, due to the LAN FPS gaming market here being pretty much dominated by CS, but I think with time it'll work out.

…I'm wonderin if there's a "realistic weapons pack" that I could download for standard UT2k4 games. Not a mod, but just a collection of weapons... Just thought of that as I was typin this post, so I'm gonna run a search... I think it would be a good idea as a way to win over some players; it'll let em shoot the M-16's they whine about missing. This could keep em from getting distracted with such exotic weaponry as the flack cannon or the shock rifle (my personal fav), while focusing on the nuances of dodging and wall jumping… watchu think?
 

Taleweaver

Wandering spirit
May 11, 2004
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Off course
Good points there, DP. Lemme give some extra comments where necessary.

Dark Pulse said:
2) Their engines have been lisenced far more then id's has. Needless to say, like them or hate them, MS buying your technology is something id can never claim. Unreal Engine is quite flexible, to the point you could make anything out of it (Even Puzzle games - anyone else here remember UTetris?) Flexibility means the Engine isn't seen as just a FPS engine - it can be Anything, given time and work.
Or, more recently: Minesweeper for UT2004.

Dark Pulse said:
4) They support their community. Even on these very forums, Epic employees look at the community posts and no doubt we've influenced some decisions somewhere. A company that keeps its fans listens to them. Epic has done a good job of listening - proof of this is how UT2004 included a mode people missed, balanced stuff better, and took out a rather unliked theme of "Sports-Entertainment".
Absolutely. They listen to what the community has to say, and take this into account, even though they still choose which game they want to make... Given the discussions on the forums, this can't be avoided.


Dark Pulse said:
5) The MSU Contest. id has done nothing similar, and this makes lots of very good mods pop out. Look at Red Orchestra, 2004's MSU winner. A high-caliber mod, a breathtaking simulation, an absolute piece of art. These guys deserved the Engine lisence they got, and with that lisence, they became a full-fledged game developer - What was, for all intents and purposes, a bunch of average Joe and Jane Sixchips, are now working in the industry they love so dearly, and it's these guys who will be next Generation's CliffyB and John Romero (And yes, there will even be an Inoxx, somewhere. :)) CliffyB said the same thing in a pre-ECE interview that was showing off some of the mods included on the ECE. "Today's Mod developer is Tomorrow's game developer."
I still think this is the main force behind the community, closely followed by the many high-quality learning guides on the net.

Dark Pulse said:
In a sense, then, Epic has become the "New" id - and they're continuing to set trends to break. Will they be toppled? Perhaps eventually. But it will take an amazingly talented team with a blockbuster hit or two to do it and win the "Competitive Multiplayer FPS" war.
It's always possible. On the other hand, it's hard to compete against a company that invests their knowledge of FPS shooters in further developing the gametype... :hmm:

Tenkken said:
With all the ons arguments & stuff, it'd be a better accomplishment to write a do & don't list for Ons
What...You think nobody already thought of that? Check out this thread on Titan's.
 

fresh&minty

lollerbater
Mar 30, 2005
137
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ahaha you all trust epic to much.

support my ass... lets port the bugs from 2k3 into 2k4, then sell it again... and best yet let's not fix the damn bugs again, and sell the MSU content to get people to buy the same product a THIRD time. The stupid noobs will buy it 3 times and think we support them, and we will make millions and not really have to pay to make NEW content because we stole it from MSU.

lmao
 

CyMek

Dead but not gone.
Jan 4, 2004
1,932
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cymek.deviantart.com
f&m does it again! N1 Freshy!

But as to dp's 1773-ness, I must admit it was well put. I think its (almost :p) all true, and that's why I still play Unreal Classic online.
 

AMmayhem

Mayhem is everywhere
Nov 3, 2001
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NaliCity, MI
Visit site
fresh&minty said:
ahaha you all trust epic to much.

support my ass... lets port the bugs from 2k3 into 2k4, then sell it again... and best yet let's not fix the damn bugs again, and sell the MSU content to get people to buy the same product a THIRD time. The stupid noobs will buy it 3 times and think we support them, and we will make millions and not really have to pay to make NEW content because we stole it from MSU.

lmao

Ahaha! Then what the hell are you doing trolling these forums? :stick:


As for Pulse's post, it sums up the history fairly well. Which was your point, so I, uhh, guess it worked well then... :con:
 

SlayerDragon

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLADIES
Feb 3, 2003
7,666
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fresh&minty said:
ahaha you all trust epic to much.

support my ass... lets port the bugs from 2k3 into 2k4, then sell it again... and best yet let's not fix the damn bugs again, and sell the MSU content to get people to buy the same product a THIRD time. The stupid noobs will buy it 3 times and think we support them, and we will make millions and not really have to pay to make NEW content because we stole it from MSU.

lmao

fresh_minty_punch.jpg
 

fresh&minty

lollerbater
Mar 30, 2005
137
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One can like a game made by a company, and still realize the company porks them in the ass at every chance.

I love UT, I think it's a great game. And I bet I have spent more time to make this game work, spent more time to run events/channels and what have you than any other person.

But no matter how much I like UT, that doesn't change the fact that epic is the WORST fps dev for customer support, and doesn't give a rat's ass.

And hey slayer, nice clock of UT hours on your xfire... guess you do play this game?
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
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what, 245 hours isn't good enough for you?!?

And not everyone has Xfire on all the time.
 

fresh&minty

lollerbater
Mar 30, 2005
137
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Now brizz calm down, let's not be a REGLIGIOUS idiot, after all. This is not church where lies rule, this is the internet, where people deal in facts, and not voodoo run organizations spread by the inquistion via torture... then again, your not religious, your rational.

his xfire profile on here, shows WOW... thus the slam. Moving along he has more WOW hours than UT. Showing this isn't his primary game.

But I'm sure a non fanatic would realize that... or is UT a religion?

Praise jebus and epic...

TBH I don't know you from **** on a wall... but I can tell by your fanatical responses your religious, and at that american, and even better, christian... I'd also wager you don't work at an upper educated job, and more over, you take your faith seriously.

How did I figure you... your entirely to simplistic. I'ts like looking at a neaderthal after watching your posts here, your a fossil and a joke.

Let move on... you play CTF (that's a shot in the dark but no real TDM player flat out lies like you do) and I guess it's for a no name team that never amounted to ****.

so tell me, am I right?
 
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Zombie Jesus

Understand the burden of braaaaaaaaaains
Feb 18, 2005
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fresh&minty said:
Now brizz calm down, let's not be a REGLIGIOUS idiot, after all. This is not church where lies rule, this is the internet, where people deal in facts, and not voodoo run organizations spread by the inquistion via torture... then again, your not religious, your rational.

his xfire profile on here, shows WOW... thus the slam. Moving along he has more WOW hours than UT. Showing this isn't his primary game.

But I'm sure a non fanatic would realize that... or is UT a religion?

Praise jebus and epic...

TBH I don't know you from **** on a wall... but I can tell by your fanatical responses your religious, and at that american, and even better, christian... I'd also wager you don't work at an upper educated job, and more over, you take your faith seriously.

How did I figure you... your entirely to simplistic. I'ts like looking at a neaderthal after watching your posts here, your a fossil and a joke.

Let move on... you play CTF (that's a shot in the dark but no real TDM player flat out lies like you do) and I guess it's for a no name team that never amounted to ****.

so tell me, am I right?

You better watch out for his
DARK HAND, he means bitness

larfff9hf.gif