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View Full Version : EPIC: Plz give us more story in the game


Bullet10k
23rd Apr 2005, 05:01 PM
I posted this on AtariCommunity, so I thought i might as well post it here on BeyondUnreal. Especially since theres a forum called ENVY.

The following has been taken from Zoeffs envy thread:
______________________________________________________
Known stats of the teams so far from the other Unreal titles:

Nahkti: UC2 -redesigned from the "anubians"
The concept was that the Nakhti people have their own combat tournament called the Ascension Rites, which is held whenever the Emperor or Empress is unable to rule. Anyone can enter the tournament, and the winner becomes the new ruler. The Liandri Mining Corporation steps in and tries to commercialize the event, and at the same time, hopes to 'encourage' the selection of a new ruler who will let them exploit the resources of the Nakhti planet.

Necris: UT / UT2K4 / UC2
The Necris are a new race (human, but with dead pale skin) who are attempting to destabilize the New Earth Government through guerilla warfare. The Phayder are a dangerous secret society of Necris assassins.

Kragoth a Necris Phayder is a known member of the Phayder Secret Society.
A brood of assassin and doomsday cultist, the Phayder have declared a sort of guerilla war against Earth.

Juggernauts: UT2K3 / UT2K4 / UC / UC2
Gorge is determined to prove that his one year reign as Tournament Champion is no fluke, and he has re-assembled the Juggernaut team he led to the championship. Axon Research Corporation has made armor and bio-genetic upgrades to the Juggernauts design for this year's Tournament.

Corrupt: UT / UT2K4
Xan Kriegor was long regarded as invincible, until Malcolm defeated him in the fourth officially recognized Tournament finals. After a long hiatus, he has returned to lead the Liandri team, The Corrupt, back to the championship. Xan is sitting out the early rounds, which he perceives as beneath his attention.

Iron Guard: UT / UT2K4
Members: Harlin, Rylisa, Johnson, Lauren, Brock
This veteran squad of elite warriors once served as personal bodyguards to the powerful arms smuggler Jihan Nyhn. After Jihan's assassination, the Iron Guard found themselves unemployed and the Tournament was an ideal arena to vent their aggression.

Brock and Lauren joined forces with Malcolm during his reign as Tournament champion. Infighting and recrimination over their stunning defeat in last year's Tournament led to the dissolution of that team. Now, Brock and Lauren have returned leading their old team, the Iron Guard.

Krall: Unreal
The Krall are a slave race of the Skaarj, and have been integrated into their society as a lower class of soldier. Though a Krall will always follow the orders of a Skaarj, they have their own ways of rebelling, such as by sleeping or playing dice when they are supposed to be on duty.

All Krall come armed with a staff weapon with three vertical blades on one end. The weapon is long enough to be considered a staff, but top-heavy enough to act as a mace when necessary. This weapon is also capable of launching energy bolts from the bladed end, so it will also server as a ranged weapon. In general, most Krall are slow but agile. This is predominantly due to their frail legs, which can be lost in battle quite easily.

Krall Elite are high-ranking Krall that can be identified by their white skin and blue accents. They are more agile and demonstrate a much greater skill in battle. They also carry a staff weapon that shoots faster and more powerful energy bolts.

Jakobs Team: ?

*Note: Brock & lauren are Necris in UC2:

"Malcolms Loyal teammate, Brock Attempted to avenge his defeat and kill Gorge. His Death was predictable. He was ressurected via the patented Necris Process. Unlike is former girlfriend Lauren, Brock has no memories of his previous life. Unburdened by remorse, hes free to kill in the tournament again."

"Lauren is a former grand tournament champion. After her boyfriend Brock died in combat, she pulled a Romeo and Juliet; taking her own life as well in grief. The Liandri couldn't afford to have two of their top competitors dead all at once, so they brought Lauren back to life with a very horrific (and expensive) Necris process. She's still cute, but she's just barely sane. Not a good combination"
______________________________________________________

You see by looking at those team descriptions, you can see that theres a lot of thought behind them. Same with the ut2k4 teams.

The problem is that when you go in-game single-player ladder, it is mostly just botmatches combined with specific maps, one after the other, when you finish one part the next gets unlocked.

Theres not much story involved as in nothing really happens when you defeat or get defeated by another team (you just move to the next match till u get to the end and still there is no end cutscene or the like).

There are some good things about the single player though, it does have CREDITS and things like buying players. Also, there is the assault mothership cutscene giving you some info which is nice. BUT there is still something missing.

Let me show you the unreal timeline, which is GREAT, http://www.unrealtournament.com/general/timeline.php. Now the only problem is that MOST people dont care about that and will never read about it because it is just TEXT.

What my suggestion is that you might want to put some cutscenes talking about the game, maybe a little bit of history like the unreal timeline, whats happening as you defeat a team, perhaps you will get challenged by the Iron Guard to an instagib match after you have defeated them in normal-weapon-match (you might want to show this by displaying Brock walking in a very angry manner breaking a pillar on the side), or maybe you can show the Juggernauts getting armor and bio-genetic upgrades from Axon corporation in a cutscene. Also, there is nothing that tells you what the liandri corporation and unreal tournament is all about. You might want to show this in like an intro cutscene or something. The current info about all this is in the form of TEXT which is not good, and most people do not know or even care about which character is which, what team the characters belong to, how strong some teams are in terms of accuracy, movement, etc.. Perhaps there should be cutscenes showing tension as your teams rank is reaching number 1 and many teams want to challenge you (they might challenge you in a bloodrites match to get your best player to prevent you from defeating them), and in the end your team holds some sort of futuristic unreal trophey. Like tell us about the unreal universe and maybe during the middle of the game some new challenging species gets discovered with like near 100% accuracy perfect for ig.

What I'm saying is get the gamer immersed in the game so that he knows what the game is all about. Im not saying to integrate Unreal 3 into Envy (although id like that). Im saying keep it a TOURNAMENT because it is and put some storyline in it. Make it obvious to the gamer what is the unreal tournament (that its a bloodsport) and liandri corporation and things like that.

UC2 has cutscenes, and the UT99 intro was GREAT, so was 2k3's. The UT99 and 2k3's intros, AS-Mothership cutscene, and UC2's cutscenes are great examples. Perhaps expand on those and add more to them. Also use the Unreal timeline and the mentioned stats of the teams (the new ENVY ones).

Make the game so that its actually worth playing again because of THE EXPERIENCE DURING THE GAME, and NOT JUST because of the END outcome, as this was the case in ut2k4 where you unlocked some characters. DURING the game it was mostly just match after match.

Btw, im only talking about the single-player.

Originally posted by placebo
I think it would be cool if, instead of being based in the Single Player menus, it was based in a small city, where you could go to arena qualifiers, duel in the streets, and, when it comes time to be in the Tournament, actually walk into the arena facility and everything like in the UT2k3 intro.

8-4-7-2
23rd Apr 2005, 05:06 PM
I'd like that

I always enjoyed the pieces of story in the map and character descriptions. But it's also hard to make it coherent because it's so scattered

rhirud
23rd Apr 2005, 05:12 PM
Aye - story.

But more important the feeling of earning teammates and building a coherent team. And with conquest\onslaught taking teratories - not just winning a round.

JaFO
23rd Apr 2005, 06:57 PM
I don't want a 'story', because that suggests a fixed main character and fixed battles that lack any reason except a random voice/cutscene suggesting that character X is pissed just 'cause you've won.

I'd really like to see something that makes the fights 'personal'. So that only if you give Gorge a royal arsekicking (like the UT2k4-intro suggests Malcolm did) he becomes pissed.
The game SSX had a feature that caused your opponents to become more aggressive towards you if you'd shoved them during matches in a championship.

Also I'd like some opponents to stay pretty 'cool' (the androids for example), while others might simply hate you regardless. Add in a few 'honourable' and not so 'honest' characters/teams while giving the player similar options (with riscs/rewards of course).

1337
23rd Apr 2005, 07:09 PM
Will these new character models be able to express facial expressions? That would be schweet.

Dark Pulse
23rd Apr 2005, 07:26 PM
They are able to now, actually; Epic just didn't use it.

TraCK
23rd Apr 2005, 07:28 PM
I think it would be cool if they had a game mode with melee weapons like in chaos ut, only with a lot more depth.

Also more story in the game would be awesome. A specific intro scene for whatever character you decide to use. A scene with fans watching a match on monitors at a sports bar or sumthin would also be cool.

The_Head
24th Apr 2005, 10:02 AM
Would be nice. But I voted no, I'd prefer just to fight. Thats why I play UT, for the action.

Taleweaver
24th Apr 2005, 10:42 AM
You see by looking at those team descriptions, you can see that theres a lot of thought behind them. Same with the ut2k4 teams.
Sorry, but I don't see that at all. I agree the different models, teams and even maps have a good visual style (architecture? fashion? I'm not familiar with visual artwork) that is consistently used, but IMO the stats of the teams are nothing more than excuses to allow them to fight in the tournaments.

I don't care what the relationship is between tournament players. I don't want to know who is angry at you because you just won against his teammate/girlfriend/dog in the tournament. All I want is an intro movie in the style of UT99: clear, to the point and aimed towards you instead of to player what's-his/her/its-name. And even that is barely needed, as I'm not going to play the singleplayer campaign much...

Sidenote: It's ironic that the majority of this thread wants more storyline, while at the same time the majority of forummers don't care who is the best fighter of the tournaments (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=157597).

Also more story in the game would be awesome. A specific intro scene for whatever character you decide to use. A scene with fans watching a match on monitors at a sports bar or sumthin would also be cool.
Yeah, that would be awesome. About 50 different cutscenes, which will use about a gigabyte extra HD space on movies that you just watch once or twice :rolleyes: And let's not forget about the manpower it takes to create those cutscenes. No thanks, I'll rather have the developers spend some more time in usefull parts of the game (map optimising, model creation, whatever).

shadow_dragon
24th Apr 2005, 01:10 PM
A comprehensive or fun single player would be no bad thing!

As far as cutscenes go, an intro and an outro are all i'd request. I remember in the old days i used to complete games jsut to see how amazing the FMV's were, It's a shame so many games opt to skip them these days.
A good FMV is a just reward for completing a single player game me thinks.

Nemephosis
24th Apr 2005, 01:43 PM
If you want story, go play the Unreal series.

The_Head
24th Apr 2005, 03:44 PM
Yeah, that would be awesome. About 50 different cutscenes, which will use about a gigabyte extra HD space on movies that you just watch once or twice :rolleyes: And let's not forget about the manpower it takes to create those cutscenes. No thanks, I'll rather have the developers spend some more time in usefull parts of the game (map optimising, model creation, whatever).

^^ took the words out of my mouth. I have a habit of skipping every video i see.

JaFO
24th Apr 2005, 04:59 PM
Manpower / resources ?
When you're using the engine itself all you'd need to add would be the basic animations, which wouldn't require gigabytes of storage-space.
Even the maps themselves could simply be part of the regular user-interface ...

I mean really. In UT2kx a 'bloodrite' or duel is simply yet another fight for a bit of extra cash. There's no real immersion as the average player doesn't even get to care about the 'reasons' for the duel.

It's like the clanwars played by 'real' clans on-line. Part of the reason they fight is to show that clan X is 'superior' to clan Y. In the singleplayer-part there's nothing that can make the player feel like he's got something to prove. All he's doing is fight yet another boring meaningless fight after another until he wins the trophy/unlocks the next level.

edhe
25th Apr 2005, 03:45 AM
Having a fully fledged story for the SP would be interesting - but imho some more background and backstory would be enough.

Mr.Magnetichead
25th Apr 2005, 09:33 AM
**** story. Give me WAR!!!

Black_Seeds
25th Apr 2005, 03:23 PM
Would be nice. But I voted no, I'd prefer just to fight. Thats why I play UT, for the action.

Same for me :)

Nemephosis
25th Apr 2005, 10:02 PM
Alright, and what "story" would you guys put into a tournament setting besides proving yourself etc.?

Arsenalvendetta
26th Apr 2005, 11:58 AM
They are able to now, actually; Epic just didn't use it.

When I went to Unreal Ed, you could tell with the Gorge etc. movie characters where the vertices and edges ended that would create a facial animation just the same way it would be done in Maya. The UT2K3 opening movie characters also have enough vertices and a slit area on the face for the mouth to make a facial animation (including the guy the Gorge knocked and Gorge/Skaarj in UT2k4). However, the Epic characters that you play with in a map could not have facial animations done on them because the cheek/eye etc. areas have too little vertices to make a well defined smirk and there is no slit to make an animated laugh expression as in counterstrike [to improve gameplay, reduce polygons]. So those characters do not support facial animation; if you were to try and make them smile or whatever, the whole face would skew. I do hope that Epic makes use of their engine and provide facial animations. That would mean providing a 'sheet' of teeth behind the mouth area as they did with the UT2k3 single player movie characters.

JaFO
27th Apr 2005, 10:25 AM
Alright, and what "story" would you guys put into a tournament setting besides proving yourself etc.?
I'd just rip the background of any reallife boxer or sports-'personality' ...
Or you could look at the various console-based beat'em'ups (Soul Calibur 2 would be a nice example).

It doesn't have to be a literary novel, but a bit better than the average soap-series would go a long way to make people want to finish the sp-part of the game. Something that's a bit more then a simple 'you won / game over' screen at the end.

edhe
27th Apr 2005, 10:35 AM
Facial expressions that change constantly with the gameplay would be good, like a grimace using the mini-style gun, concentrated frown with the sniper, enthralled manic expression on charge SG/IH, squint on a shock user etc... with 'cheers' when you frag, delight on sprees/pickups, and even fear when getting damaged.

For the number of polys that it'd change imho it would be worth the finer details like that.

Taleweaver
27th Apr 2005, 11:05 AM
I'm surprised nobody mentioned a link to the similar Atari thread (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=464966), so far. Unlike usual, I agree with most of the replies there.
Kinda strange that the majority of people are voting in favor of more story there as well. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think Discord expressed my feelings better than I could do myself:

The next attempt at a story needs to kick off with, "So. You remember all that stuff we told you in '03 and '04? Well, forget it. We were just pulling your leg. Here's what REALLY happened..."

And furthermore, I don't give a rat's roast about the individual characters, I never have. Malcolm, Brock, Lauren, even Xan... just don't care. I love the Malcolm and Xan models, the models I care about. The characters? Meh.

"Necris process." Don't make me larf.

Now here's a short- and- sweet and IMO somewhat satisfying potential plotline for the next UT game:

The year is now 2384. The success of the tournament has exceeded everybody's wildest expectations and become a staple of modern popular culture... not to mention a cash cow. Wage- slaves and criminal scum the galaxy over have come to see the tournament as a way out of their squalid existence and the key to fame and fortune, and now time- honored sporting fare like Deathmatch and Flag Capture continue to command a following.

In an effort to yank some of the profits away from Liandri Mining, notorious arms manufacturing concern Axon Corporation has started its own league offering huge outdoor arenas, over- the- top combat featuring bleeding- edge military hardware (read: ONS and CON) and slicked- up production values.

Despite the growing popularity of the Axon Extreme Combat League (as it's come to be known) and corresponding annual revenues of truly epic proportions, the new tournament with its enormous production costs is expected to operate at a net loss for the 8th year running. This fact combined with scarcely- concealed interest from some of the shadowier circles of galactic society has sparked rumors that something far more sinister than bread and circuses is actually going on here...



And there you go. You don't need a helluva lot more, really. And there's no corny magic there, just some nice scuzzy intrigue and corporate malfeasance.

As far as single player campaign goes, meh... do what you like. I'll probably (once again) blow through the ladder just to say I did it and then head off to the servers.

IMO, that's all the kind of story you'll need :) :tup:

(okay, I suggest a part that talks about YOU entering the tournament instead of some character, but that's it).

JaFO
27th Apr 2005, 01:00 PM
The way that story is written it sounds like it's from someone that can't stand ONS/Conquest.

Of course you could try what Tribes did from the start and 'explain' the matches particulary those in ONS/Conquest as a sort of stylized/televised form of warfare. It would help to explain why some maps weren't completely 'fair' and why competing teams have different vehicles (they bring their own).

In other words : no hiding behind "extreme combat league", but a 'real' war that's fought in battlefield-sized arenas with 'official' rules with companies/criminals and even some teams earning a few extra credits by betting on the results.

It could become something like the tournaments of the medieval era on earth. There'd be plenty of chace of 'cheating' and other dirty games as well.

empty_other
3rd May 2005, 03:31 AM
Come on! How many of you played UT99? Was it only me who enjoyed reading trough every bot's bio? Enjoyed reading who was in the war, or what personal purpose they had...

And anyone of you played Unreal 1? Did you play that just because of the graphics? Why didnt more people play Unreal 2 then? And it was even more action than Unreal 1, so you didtn not play Unreal 2 for the action... The only two things who made me hate Unreal 2 was the storyline and the weapons.

So i say YES to a storyline in Envy! Amen.
(you are welcome to try to talk me off my opinion. Should anyone come with an argument good enough, i will join your side instead. If not, go play Quake3. They have action, good weapons, and NO story).

JaFO
3rd May 2005, 05:56 AM
*eh* Q3A did have a story :
"Mysterious aliens kydnap 'famous' fighters to use as gladiators in their own arena"
Even the characters had a 'story' of sorts.

The only real difference is that Id didn't even try to tie them all together into something that was somewhat coherent (IIRC they used time/dimensional-travel as an excuse a bit too often).

Killavirus
3rd May 2005, 02:07 PM
**** story. Give me WAR!!!


Hit the nail on the goddam head :D

Taleweaver
3rd May 2005, 04:48 PM
Come on! How many of you played UT99? Was it only me who enjoyed reading trough every bot's bio? Enjoyed reading who was in the war, or what personal purpose they had...
Ehm...I don't know what your definition of a "story" is, but a bio is just that...a few reasons on why they are in the tournament.


And anyone of you played Unreal 1? Did you play that just because of the graphics? Why didnt more people play Unreal 2 then? And it was even more action than Unreal 1, so you didtn not play Unreal 2 for the action... The only two things who made me hate Unreal 2 was the storyline and the weapons.

The Unreal's are singleplayer games, so they don't count. You don't want to have a translator in Envy that gives you messages from fallen warriors that give hints/tips on how to proceed while you're in the middle of a DM fight, right?


So i say YES to a storyline in Envy! Amen.
(you are welcome to try to talk me off my opinion. Should anyone come with an argument good enough, i will join your side instead. If not, go play Quake3. They have action, good weapons, and NO story).
How about the argument that so far, more people like the UT99 storyline instead of the UT200x one? No matter how you look at it, UT200x had more story than UT99. It introduced characters in movies (as opposed to "just" bio's). who had a certain relationship to one another, the different teams/races had personal reasons to fight, and so on.

IMO, subtility is the key. It is the player who is going to do the fighting, so don't disrupt his/her ideas too much on how (s)he sees the tournament. It's a complete given that you're going to keep fighting until the end, so any sidestory on the who and why is doomed from the start.

NeoNite
3rd May 2005, 04:55 PM
*eh* Q3A did have a story :
"Mysterious aliens kydnap 'famous' fighters to use as gladiators in their own arena"
Even the characters had a 'story' of sorts.

The only real difference is that Id didn't even try to tie them all together into something that was somewhat coherent (IIRC they used time/dimensional-travel as an excuse a bit too often).

Seeing how you're involved with bots and their feelings, you must've checked those bot chat files already ;O)

You can find some interesting things about the characters in there.








(I wish UT also would have had a bot chat system. OPTIONAL, that is.
You could simply disable/enable it.
It's fun making a bot in Quake3.)

gregori
5th May 2005, 03:04 PM
UT2k3 had brilliant looking character models and cool themes and planets a big improvement on ut99, then they messed it up by having no real story,no development so you aren't immersed in that universe, the themes weren't exploited enough and all the voicepacks are the same.

It's Bullsh#t to say a fps doen't need story, of course it does, otherwise their would be no need for good graphics or any graphics for that matter. Ut2k3 just felt overwhemingly flat souless compared to it's predessor, all the levels are lifeless factory levels., and over balancing of the weapons took out fun factor of the game. GTA:vice city is a very simple game with run and gun gameplay and it still has a well acted and entertaining storyline that doesn't get in the way of the gameplay, instead it makes it immersive.

UT2k3 was originally meant to be set 200 years after the original UT, with a wierd empire race, liandri where long gone, then they got rid of this idea for 2k4.That was a stupid thing to do, having to different timelines in the unreal universe and two different sets of races would have been cool it Epic had the imagination to pull it off!

Dark Pulse
6th May 2005, 02:48 PM
UT2k3 was originally meant to be set 200 years after the original UT, with a wierd empire race, liandri where long gone, then they got rid of this idea for 2k4.That was a stupid thing to do, having to different timelines in the unreal universe and two different sets of races would have been cool it Epic had the imagination to pull it off!
I dunno where you're getting that idea from. Malcolm was still tournament champion in UT2003 - surely, as a human, unless some sort of "Fountain of Youth" were discovered, Malcolm would have either died or been defeated during that time!

gregori
6th May 2005, 03:45 PM
there was no malcolm in Unreal championship/ut2k3 originally then he was added at the end of development cycle in anyway, you can read this off the gamespot e3 preview from years ago now, it was set 200 years in the future minus one liandri corporation, in anyway they don't need a fountain.if they can bring people back from the brink of death in ut surely they can prolong life.An even better idea would to have for example Malcolm III or some lark like that, where his decendants fight keeping the honourable family name or maybe his blood line has been cloned repeatedly so on so forth.Titles like numerals would bring in the whole empire thing into the story.

carmatic
6th May 2005, 05:49 PM
Let me show you the unreal timeline, which is GREAT, http://www.unrealtournament.com/general/timeline.php. Now the only problem is that MOST people dont care about that and will never read about it because it is just TEXT.


wheres that part about the vortex rikers crashing on na pali?

gregori
6th May 2005, 05:57 PM
that happens years before the human skaarj war when humans meet the skaarj for the very first time, of course it sucks they have put specific dates on it,it's better you don't know the exact time but it's untold years into the future......

carmatic
6th May 2005, 06:03 PM
UT2k3 was originally meant to be set 200 years after the original UT, with a wierd empire race, liandri where long gone, then they got rid of this idea for 2k4.That was a stupid thing to do, having to different timelines in the unreal universe and two different sets of races would have been cool it Epic had the imagination to pull it off!


eh ??? thats definitely new to me... where did you get that from?
besides, after playing through so many custom maps , it kind of wears off on you that any attempts at weaving a story will end up being shredded by the realities of playing a game... like you would just want to forget about the storyline sooner or later when you have a game that's like ut2k4 which is so community powered with custom maps, characters, and other stuff... if on the other hand, you play a mmorpg, then storyline is very important... but since envy is going to be community based and much like ut2k4, then i dont think that a storyline would do much good...

carmatic
6th May 2005, 06:06 PM
that happens years before the human skaarj war when humans meet the skaarj for the very first time, of course it sucks they have put specific dates on it,it's better you don't know the exact time but it's untold years into the future......

i meant like, that attempt at a timeline was missing something.... like, no vortex rikers crash on na pali = no unreal

gregori
6th May 2005, 06:30 PM
so a story can still be fleshed out althought its not as important as the one in a rpg its definitiley important you connected the various characters,worlds,themes and visuals togheter, since their bringing the krall+stinger into Envy looks like their integrating in the original story, they definitly should have some maps set on na pali, and explain why the skaarj wanted tarydium so much, i reckons it's neccisary for space travel and various other machines, and human/skaarj war was over control this resource, travelling trough space is too slow without it. Why would the skaarj invade earth anyway? coz their evil? it's just like the gulf war being fought over oil and the like, that story fits

gregori
6th May 2005, 06:33 PM
the 200 years later thing comes from the original story for uc with the empire seizing control over a liandri dominated galaxy. you can read it from the uc preview at e3 on gamespot from some years ago i think 2001

NiteX
9th May 2005, 11:33 AM
I don't want story, I want better gameplay!

gregori
9th May 2005, 12:41 PM
yeah true, but this is a thread about more having more story, give out about lacking gameplay elsewhere!

Bullet10k
16th May 2005, 07:17 PM
Bump!

This game REALLY REALLY NEEDS story!

Bullet10k
16th May 2005, 07:18 PM
I don't want story, I want better gameplay!
Did you know you can have both without sacrifising one or the other? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Xaero_UT
16th May 2005, 07:59 PM
Did you know you can have both without sacrifising one or the other? :eek: :eek: :eek:

yeah but bullet, what people are saying, that while its a good idea, this game IS multiplayer!

people would prefer better gameplay, than a story, that in reality, would probably only be played 1nce,

if it is done sure, but i would rather gameplay, and releasing the game, than them keeping it for another month for the story and then releasing it..

people dont want to miss out on teh gameplay potential, and miss out of a gametype just because they got a story, they will only play one time..

Kantham
16th May 2005, 08:08 PM
Bump!

This game REALLY REALLY NEEDS story!

Just the caracter Info is quite enought

Oh yea , brock got killed and now he's a necris , i get it. Because the only thing that apen in the tournament is this.


GIVE ME A MOVIE is the current ask.

Bullet10k
16th May 2005, 08:36 PM
But look at Quake 4 you guys, its a competitor to UT2007, only diff is Quake 4 has got a full fledged single player storyline for you to complete, which really gives Quake 4 an advantage, atleast in IMO. Not saying Quake 4 will be better, we still have to see about that (prolly UT2007 is better since the gfx kicks a$$)! but still...U need a good storyline for some background info AT THE LEAST!

gregori
17th May 2005, 07:08 AM
yeah otherwise its like bread with nothing on it, a bit plain

edhe
17th May 2005, 07:35 AM
Quake 4 and 2k7 will be different genres within the FPS market. They're not in direct competition like UT and Q3 were.

gregori
17th May 2005, 11:01 AM
ahh but quake 4 had it's singleplayer and multiplayer developed by two different teams
so it's multiplayer is more or less like quake 3, it's single player is seperate
it will partially be the same genre, ut2004 could benefit from a similary fully fleged developed single player campaign thingy, with characters, fmv and all
any body see the ut2007 movie on ps3 yet, it's f#cking amazing looking!

Dark Pulse
18th May 2005, 07:06 AM
I don't mind a little story, but I don't want it to be the whole point of the SP. It'll still be Botmatches in the end, though, so if they can pretty it up without killing stuff other gametypes might need, then it's all good with me.

Something like "WWF Smackdown: Just Bring it" did on the PS2 would work pretty well, I think. You'd be allowed to roam around at wherever all the competitiors are shacked up, and challenge opponents, or find teammates that way. That's been mentioned on here before, as well, and I think it's pretty cool.

Bullet10k
18th May 2005, 03:43 PM
yeah but bullet, what people are saying, that while its a good idea, this game IS multiplayer!
The game is also single-player, the single-player is not just there to prepare you for MP, its there for some fun and for people that cant play online. Single player still is an important part of UT, some of you have just forgetten because thats all that u play is MP (since u have internet). I remember sum1 from epic (cant remember who) saying that SP is really an important part and it must have a good experience (to prove its not all multiplayer focused, it is also single player focused). Its also why they provided the ECE for offline players (ex:AlienSwarm). Single-player IS an important part of UT.

Bullet10k
18th May 2005, 03:49 PM
(sry for the double post but this post is different)

That video shown at the ps3 conference looks sick. The one with the rocket launcher and the robot. It looks like THEY ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING MORE STORY AND PLOT! Which is really really cool dont u think?

(I really hope that video and many others like that make it in game cuz that is really awesome)

Taleweaver
18th May 2005, 04:40 PM
The game is also single-player, the single-player is not just there to prepare you for MP, its there for some fun and for people that cant play online. Single player still is an important part of UT, some of you have just forgetten because thats all that u play is MP (since u have internet). I remember sum1 from epic (cant remember who) saying that SP is really an important part and it must have a good experience (to prove its not all multiplayer focused, it is also single player focused). Its also why they provided the ECE for offline players (ex:AlienSwarm). Single-player IS an important part of UT.
Absolutely true. But where does the story fit in? I mean...when you feel like playing a few rounds, do you rather:
A. get a character that looks cool, select a few random bots and a map you like, and start fragging away
B. pick your player because you like his/her characteristics, proceed by getting a lecture on who the character's enemies are, why they will fight you and usually hate you in the same process. Then you're forced to fight one of these enemies on a map that's picked because it fits the prescribed storyline for the confrontation of character vs character.

Since you're so happy on the story, can't you at least tell us what the ps2 movie showed in regard of the story?

About that story...Should that be a "story" in the style of star wars 2 (aka: consequences of scenes that allows as much fighting/witty oneliners/eyecandy as possible) or...well, a story.

Bullet10k
18th May 2005, 04:56 PM
B. pick your player because you like his/her characteristics, proceed by getting a lecture on who the character's enemies are, why they will fight you and usually hate you in the same process. Then you're forced to fight one of these enemies on a map that's picked because it fits the prescribed storyline for the confrontation of character vs character.

Since you're so happy on the story, can't you at least tell us what the ps2 movie showed in regard of the story?

About that story...Should that be a "story" in the style of star wars 2 (aka: consequences of scenes that allows as much fighting/witty oneliners/eyecandy as possible) or...well, a story.
I DO believe i mentioned about a cutscene between every match (prolly like this: outcome of your previous match, followed by some info, then followed by whats coming up nexT), and not what you said in B, STOP EXAGGERATING BECAUSE WHAT UR SPEAKING (in option B) IS TOTAL NONSENSE. I never SAID to put storyline in INSTANT ACTION (thats wat u just said in B). Im saying in single-player it should be like storyline SINCE YOU WILL ONLY PLAY IT ONCE (hey, u dont want to see it? Press ESC simple as that to skip, u cant go wrong with ESC).

How am i suppose to know what the hell the ps3 ut2007 movie is suppose to be????? But i know this: thats not how ur gonna be playing in game because of the camera angles, even if they just took control of the camera angles to make it look sick, why does the robot not have a gun? Is it even a playable character? That could POSSIBLY be a cutscene showing you how 1337 those robots really are. But honestly, we dont know, so dont ask me these questions.

gregori
19th May 2005, 01:49 PM
the Robots from the ps3 demo are from the liandri robot planet uprising thingy in AR robotfactory, that the story the had thei rebellion against their masters, why would all robots need to have guns? i don't the quake 4 robot army thingy looks cooler, but that the story in anyway!

Bullet10k
3rd Jun 2005, 03:47 PM
*Bump* (So people from this other thread know what I'm talking about)

gregori
3rd Jun 2005, 04:41 PM
Think the problem with story in ut2kx comes from the fact that ut99 was built on a game that already had a developed story unreal 1, where as ut2kx was just built from scratch as MP and this aspect wasn't considered enough,

remebering that story doesn't need to be told exclusively with clips, it can be told in how maps, locations, weapons and character are designed, how there voice packs sound, waht the charaters say,the background of characters and their motivations, the reasons why something as barbaric as the tournament exists. stuff like that!

Half life for example has only one clip, and its at the end, most the other stuff is just the visual look of the game,the locations, and what characters say,how they behave,
of course that single player but similar can be done for multiplayer, once its in the background and really subtle!

carmatic
4th Jun 2005, 08:27 AM
i think the only storyline that can exist in the context of multiplayer, is something that allows the characters existence to tie in with the players existence, and their relationships with each other within the storyline has to fit into the confines of the player's purpose in-game , and the players actions must flesh out the storyline... the simplest way is to have different teams, each with their storyline, and the players are acting out the storyline by fighting the team's enemies...
another example is just like what is in the name of unreal tournament... a big tournament where people come to have fun and kill each other

Bullet10k
22nd Jun 2005, 03:34 PM
Bump! This thread is similar to that "Immersion" thread.

EL BOURIKO
23rd Jun 2005, 12:03 AM
Bump! This thread is similar to that "Immersion" thread.

agree

_Zd_3s_
24th Jun 2005, 08:01 AM
Anyone remember One Must Fall 2097? Now that was a good example of how you can make an interesting, tournament-based single-player experience with hardly any effort. All they did is draw some 30 characters and let them say something before each match you were fighting against them. As you fought each character again and again, they would say something different, revealing just a little bit more about them and their relationships with the other players. You could then just use your own imagination to create little 'background profiles' for each enemy.

And sometimes, just sometimes, someone would challenge you for a direct fight, because they took something personal. "You hurt my little sister, let me show you what pain really is like"-kind-of-stuff.

Very nicely done and it added sooo much to the single-player experience. :tup: I would like it done that way in the next UT, too. No huge, intriguing story, just a little bit more 'bonding' with your enemies and allies and the odd unexpected turn of events. :)

edhe
24th Jun 2005, 10:35 AM
OMF 2097 = teh rawk.

OO7MIKE
24th Jun 2005, 12:52 PM
I really don't think a story line is going to make the UT series any more fun. It basically comes down to frag, destroy and capture.

Does anyone care about story when you are fragging online?

Story is a good selling point and may enhance single player action... but I dont think it does anything for multiplayer.

gregori
24th Jun 2005, 01:16 PM
funny, the amount of copies of ut2kx sold was several multiples the amount of players and played online!
ALOT of people play UT offline, and should be catered to, storyline, AI wise and the rest........
beside even multiplayer is a bit boring without some story,
interesting characters, imaginative weapons and battlefields with a story behind them give a game colour and personality.............

If it merely comes down to frag, whats the point of the graphics and sound.
Why should anyone pay Epic for a souless visual upgrade of UT2K4?

Story doesn't mean videoclips or long boring reading of dialogues, it can be done in millions of tiny subtle ways that all add up!

Vault
24th Jun 2005, 03:50 PM
epic has said that they are trying to give more life to the characters... and i think they were hinting at a story

Taleweaver
24th Jun 2005, 06:05 PM
funny, the amount of copies of ut2kx sold was several multiples the amount of players and played online!
ALOT of people play UT offline, and should be catered to, storyline, AI wise and the rest........
beside even multiplayer is a bit boring without some story,
interesting characters, imaginative weapons and battlefields with a story behind them give a game colour and personality.............

If it merely comes down to frag, whats the point of the graphics and sound.
Why should anyone pay Epic for a souless visual upgrade of UT2K4?

Story doesn't mean videoclips or long boring reading of dialogues, it can be done in millions of tiny subtle ways that all add up!
Also funny: from those big hordes of people playing ut2003/4 offline, nobody complained about any sort of a "lack of story" (through 56k modem, a friend's computer, internet café, ...).

Maybe you've met players online who wanted more story on the servers, but I sure as hell haven't. Can you guys come up with a few examples of how you would envision an online story for a first person shooter? (congratulations...you've made me curious :) ).

Why should anyone pay for a "soules visual upgrade"? Well, let me answer that by saying I don't think the story is the soul of the game (you're confusing it with a book). The gameplay is the soul, while visuals represent the heart. Visuals are what people are going to see (screenshots, shareware, video's, demos, at a friend's place,...) and what they're going to base their opinion on. The gameplay is going to keep the audience coming, provided it's good. Story can have some effect as well, but once you've got everything, it becomes boring (no matter how good a story-based game is, I never play it again once I've finished it).

epic has said that they are trying to give more life to the characters... and i think they were hinting at a story
No...they were putting more personality in the characters. Right now - if you force models - everyone plays alike. There are some differences in attributes, but not enough to say that everyone is unique. In the next game, the roles will shine out more...At least, that's what I've picked up from the prerelease video.

Sahkolihaa
24th Jun 2005, 06:14 PM
I don't know why I actually voted towards a better story, when in my opinion, I would rather have the work that goes into a story go into the gameplay, keeping the weapons/maps balanced for a good game for people to play offline and online.

If you want a good story then it's best if the game is single player only, or more based around single player than multiplayer so that the developers can work more towards the story of the game rather than the balancing of the game to keep online gameplay even and fair.

Bullet10k
25th Jun 2005, 01:18 AM
Also funny: from those big hordes of people playing ut2003/4 offline, nobody complained about any sort of a "lack of story" (through 56k modem, a friend's computer, internet café, ...).Yes because the only players that play right now are the most hardcore players that really love UT regardless of story or not, so the people that thought there was a lack of story, instead of complaining, they just LEFT. UT2004 demo is the most downloaded demo at Gamespot (iirc), it had 10,000 players in the first week it came out, and then it dropped to less than 2000 after the first week (iirc again). Only the people that loved the game stayed with it and everyone that hated it just left never to come back again.

Maybe you've met players online who wanted more story on the servers, but I sure as hell haven't. Can you guys come up with a few examples of how you would envision an online story for a first person shooter? (congratulations...you've made me curious :) ).You CAN have a bit of "story" in ONLINE, but I wouldnt call it exactly a story but rather....DEPTH (couldnt think of the right words when I first posted this). Example would be like the maps would be designed to give you a FEELING of an unreal tournament (get what im saying?...the maps and artwork should be designed with the story in mind), ofcourse, gameplay comes first and adding this depth into the maps will not harm it either. Go to the thread named "New map thema ?" and you'll know exactly what im talking about coz there are some great map ideas and themes in there.;)

EL BOURIKO
25th Jun 2005, 09:15 AM
don t mind about of a main story line and focus on even better maps and gameplay instead...

If I want a deep and tricky story, I play some other games but not UT. So why not playing UT for what it is, just some pure and fun gameplay in some wonderfull maps...

gregori
25th Jun 2005, 06:01 PM
As i have said, you can have a great gameplay and a story, you don't have to sacrifice one for the other! I'm mostly interested in the storyline for the vast amount who play offline, although it wouldn't hurt multiplayer either!

The point that Epic are putting more personality into the characters is a great example of more story in the game, stories are about characters ultimately.

It also shows you don't need long boring speeches, text and videoclips to tell a story,
you can do it trough how the characters speak, animate and look, their motivations and personality

The themes and visuals of maps can give you snapshots of places in the unreal universe and can tie the game together pretty well, the assault maps in UT2kx and UT
are a great example of this.

The characters in tekken are a good example, they have very little storyline just a couple of lines , but each animates differently, has their own personality, and is instantly recognisable!

Gameplay is central to all games ofcourse, but i found the singleplayer in 2k4 unbearable and monotonous, unlike UT, it was too geared towards hardcore online players, the minority of minority of the games's players----------gone was the fast and fun play of the original.

Point is story and visuals if implemented well, tie a good gameplay experience together
without these offline or online I get a very bad impression of a game.

You can upgrade the visuals from a stats point of view all you want, with better graphics cards and so on, but that doesn't translate into better use of graphics, nor does it give them any soul,
countless examples prove this

Taleweaver
26th Jun 2005, 07:41 AM
You CAN have a bit of "story" in ONLINE, but I wouldnt call it exactly a story but rather....DEPTH (couldnt think of the right words when I first posted this). Example would be like the maps would be designed to give you a FEELING of an unreal tournament (get what im saying?...the maps and artwork should be designed with the story in mind), ofcourse, gameplay comes first and adding this depth into the maps will not harm it either. Go to the thread named "New map thema ?" and you'll know exactly what im talking about coz there are some great map ideas and themes in there.;)
Why didn't you say so earlier? :) To me, this doesn't qualify under the definition of "story", but it's certainly important that this...whatever (I called it "visual stye" in an earlier post)...is taken care off in a more-than-decent matter. In any way, I certainly agree with you on this.

I'm still sceptical about the no-complaints explanation, though. On the INA forums, ppl complain about everything, including things that can't even be remotely blamed on Epic. With that in mind, lack of story could not stay out of sight for very long without many people to complain about it (or rather: one to complain, and dozens to confirm the complaint).

Bullet10k
26th Jun 2005, 07:39 PM
On the INA forums, ppl complain about everything, including things that can't even be remotely blamed on Epic.Very true. Also, they're very negative when some good ideas get posted, I think that all they want is UT2007 to be a prettier UT99 with UE3.

_Lynx
2nd Jul 2005, 08:17 AM
Yeah, that would be awesome. About 50 different cutscenes, which will use about a gigabyte extra HD space on movies that you just watch once or twice And let's not forget about the manpower it takes to create those cutscenes. No thanks, I'll rather have the developers spend some more time in usefull parts of the game (map optimising, model creation, whatever).

Oh, don't you remeber that matinee that was shown to you when you was finishing the ladders in UT'99? It's easy to make 3 or 5 matinee intros, that will be selected at random, showing exactly the character you have chosen. And it will take something like 50Mb of your disk space.

NeoNite
2nd Jul 2005, 12:18 PM
And really, what would an extra gigabyte be to most of you? Seeing you already have 10-20 gigabyte of porn movies installed, it couldn't POSSIBLY a problem, right?

EL BOURIKO
3rd Jul 2005, 09:57 AM
And really, what would an extra gigabyte be to most of you? Seeing you already have 10-20 gigabyte of porn movies installed, it couldn't POSSIBLY a problem, right?

I did not know that I had such things on my PC! maybe i should check my Hard Disk then...

NeoNite
8th Jul 2005, 12:42 PM
I did not know that I had such things on my PC! maybe i should check my Hard Disk then...

Replace PC with brain and "hard disk" with ... :D

I'm saying, there are a lot of dirty people here!
I'm on to you...