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Vedanth Salian
21st Apr 2005, 03:16 PM
Hi,
Since UT Envy will be a more casual player game rather than a pro player approach who playes tournaments for money, there will be lots of pro player who will whine that the game is bad eventhough if it is revolutionary online (some guys have already started whining at esreality.com). Eventhough Epic states that the new game will please the 1vs1 pro player, I have no idea how they will because the pro guys used to complain even with UT2004 which was the best pro duel game available in the market. So I have decided to make a pro 1vs1 mod for the benifit of the UT2004 pro 1vs1 community using the UE3 engine. This project will give me experience in knowing more about software devolopment & game engines in particular which I plan to devolop as a hobby. Since when 'Envy' comes to the market, Ut2004 will be rendered useless. Therefore the revolutionary pro gaming concepts (of UT2004) by Epic will be useless. I feel these innovations by Epic really deserved a lot more reward than it is currently getting. So I plan to make this mod using the best parts of Ut2004 & Envy suitable for pro 1vs1 gaming & make this mod the best duel mod for Envy. Since Envy is not out, I have made some gameplay balances for UT2004. As Envy comes out further changes will be done for benifit of pro players.

So here they are -
1) Gameplay Changes -

a) Damage Amplifier - The UT2004 'Double Damage' is removed for Damage Amplifier. This is nothing but instead of the x2 damage, this does a x1.5 damage on all weapons.

b) Ammunition - As you will see further that the shield gun is drastically reduced in the mod, therefore discouraging spamming is a very good idea. Since in UT2004 you could get enough ammo to not bother about it at all, here the situation is different. The ammo carrying capacity of a weapon & the ammount of ammo got by taking a ammo pack is drastically reduced. The advantages of this features are spamming takes a backseat as the player is made to use his ammo intelligently so that if he starts to blindly spam he will lose his ammo in no time.

c) Shield & Armour System - A 4 type armour system that replaces the 'map control friendly UT2004 system' to encourage a more dynamic & strategic gameplay. Details of Armour System cannot be disclosed as of now.

d) Movement System - The revolutionary UT2004 movement system will be back. Although this is pro friendly & fast, more attention is paid to make the game more stealth oriented. DodgeJumps are just an excuse to move fast across a map.

e) Characters - Anything cannot be said now as scale of UT Envy's character may be different than UT2004. First preference will definitely be UT Envy's character so that the weapons are balanced to this feature.

f) Maps - Atleast 5 & atmost 10 competitive maps are being thought of to give competitive play a boost. Because Envy wont have the UT2004 movement system, so naturally those maps wont fit in this mod.

g) Miscellaneous Changes - Some unique & innovative twists to 1vs1 pro gameplay is being thought of that can add a new dimension in gameplay. Details cannot be disclosed as of now.


2) Weapon balance-

I have made changes so that UT2004 will be a more balanced shield & non hitscan game. I have made changes to remove the hitscan factor, promote face to face fragging & promote a equally aggressive & somewhat medium defensive gameplay by nerfing the shield gun. So in the mathematical part there are some terms to be known. I will write it as folows-

fal - Highest no. of ammo that can be carried
dp shot - Damage done per shot
rof - The rate at which the ammo is fired
dfl 100% - Damage done when full ammo capacity is fired with 100% accuracy
dfl 50% - Damage done when full ammo capacity is fired with 50% accuracy
dfl 25% - Damage done when full ammo capacity is fired with 25% accuracy
dp sec - Damage done per sec
ap sec - Ammo fired per sec
aut - Time taken for full ammo capacity to be fired
g+a - Ammo got when you take a gun + Ammo got when you take a ammo pack

The sequence in which I will write the weapon properties are below. As you can see I have written the properties of the weapon in the mod which will be created & below that the properties of how the weapon was in UT2004. So that you can compare what has changed. Then I have written the non mathematical aspect of the changes below the mathematical aspect

(Name of Gun)
mathematical part-
1vs1 Mod - fal,dp shot,rof,dfl 100%,dfl 50%,dfl 25%,dp sec,ap sec,aut,g+a
UT2004 - fal,dp shot,rof,dfl 100%,dfl 50%,dfl 25%,dp sec,ap sec,aut,g+a
Non Mathematical part-


Herebelow I will state the mathematical & non-mathemathical properties of each weapon.

a) Lightning Gun (primary) -

12,70,1.42,840 ,420 ,210,49,0.7,17.04,02+05
40,70,1.42,2800,1400,700,49,0.7,56.80,15+10

Primary mode same as UT2004.

b) Lightning Gun (secondary) -

not applicable
not applicable

Headshots can be done only in Secondary zoom mode.
In zoom there will be 2 limits. If the first limit is reached & a headshot is made then the opponent takes damage of 100 hp. If the second limit is reached & a headshot is made then the opponent takes damage of 120 hp.
Rest is the same as UT2004.

c) Shield Gun (primary) -

not applicable
not applicable

An extra shieldgun tactic is added. Now the shieldgun has the ability to become silent but it does lesser damage of 100 as opposed to 150 when fully charged. But your impact hammer jumping is drastically reduced in this mode. Rest is the same as UT2004.

d) Shield Gun (secondary) -

not applicable
not applicable

Since in UT2004 1vs1, shield gun could be used to escape easily, then regenerate it and then again use it.This promoted a more defensive gameplay. So I have made the shield such that if used intelligently it could be a boon or if used poorly it could be a bane.

Shield doesnt have the Ut2004 cutdown ammo factor (i.e. 15 in Ut2004).
Shield regenerates only if it is an active weapon.
Shield Gun reduces from its highest ammo 100 to 0 in exactly 5 seconds (i.e. it uses 20 ammo per sec or 1 ammo per 0.05 sec)
Shield can now take any no. of shots from any weapon without the UT2004 absorption property (i.e. from close range the shield could take a full flak primary shot and would become 0 in that instant). This means unless the shield ammo doesnt reach 0 any no. of shots from any weapon wont harm you.
Shield can only be used when its ammo has reached 100.

e) Shock Rifle (primary) -

25,20,0.625,500 ,250 ,125 ,32,1.6,15.625,05+05
50,45,0.625,2250,1125,562.5,72,1.6,31.250,20+10

Knockback factor present.
The primary fire only does a meagre 20 hp damage.
There is no knockback factor when the shield is used.

f) Shock Rifle (secondary) -

25,40,0.526,1000,500 ,250,76,1.9,13.15,05+05
50,40,0.526,2000,1000,500,76,1.9,26.30,20+10

Secondary mode same as UT2004

g) Minigun (primary) -

100,6&7 alternative,0.0625,650 ,325 ,162.5,104 ,16,06.25,20+30
300,6-7-8 ,0.0625,2400,1200,600 ,96-128,16,18.75,150+50

Randomness is cut which was present in UT2004. The gun used to be variable with the bullet doing 6 or 7 or 8 hp damage. Thus here it does 6 & 7 hp damage alternatively. Here the power of gun is reduced a bit. The rest is same as Ut2004

h) Minigun (secondary) -

100,12 ,0.1818,1200,600 ,300 ,66 ,5.5,18.18,20+30
300,12-14-16,0.1818,4800,2400,1200,66-88,5.5,54.54,150+50

Here the secondary damage which was random in UT2004 as it did damage from 12 or 14 or 16 is changed to 12. The rest is the same as UT2004.

i) Link Gun (primary) -

75 ,30,0.1818,450 ,225 ,112.5,165,5.5,2.727,15+25
220,30,0.1818,3300,1650,825 ,165,5.5,19.99,70+50

The primary fire is made weak not on damage & rate of fire but in ammo.
The primary mode is made a bit weak to avoid spam.
In UT2004 a primary link ball was made of 2 ammo but here it is made of 5 ammo. So with a full ammo capacity of 75 you can only shoot 15 balls.
Rest as in Ut2004.

j) Link Gun (secondary) -

75 ,11,0.11,825 ,412.5,206.5,99 ,9.09,8.25,15+25
220,09,0.11,1980,990 ,495 ,81.81,9.09,24.2,70+50

Damage made bit strong.
Lockdown property present.
No lockdown property when using a shield gun.
Rest is same as in UT2004

k) Flak Cannon (primary) -

10,117,1.0 ,1170,585 ,292.5 ,117 ,1.0,10 ,2+4
35,117,0.769,4095,2047.5,1023.75,152.1,1.3,26.915,15+10

Rate of fire lowered.
Rebound property cut out.
Rest is same as in UT2004

l) Flak Cannon (secondary) -

10,60 ,0.80,600 ,300 ,150 ,75 ,1.25,8.0,02+04
35,100-130,1.0 ,4550,2275,1137.5,100-130,1.0 ,35 ,15+10

Damage lowered a lot.
Rate of fire increased a bit.
Speed of the shell will be slightly similiar to UT2003
No release in shrapnels after the shell lands.
Rest is same as in UT2004

m) Rocket Launcher (primary) -

10,90,0.769,900 ,450 ,225,117,1.3,7.69 ,02+04
30,90,0.769,2700,1350,675,117,1.3,23.07,12+9

Same as in UT2004

n) Rocket launcher (Secondary) -

10,270,2.0,900 ,450 ,225,135,0.5,6.66,02+4
30,270,2.0,2700,1350,675,135,0.5,20 ,12+9

Same as UT2004

o) Biorifle (primary) -

25,35,0.25,875 ,437.5,218.75,140,4,6.25,05+10
50,35,0.25,1750,875 ,437.5 ,140,4,12.5,20+20

Biorifle sludges remain permanent on the ground of contact.
The sludges can be destroyed by select weapons.
Rest is same as in UT2004

p) Biorifle (secondary) -

25,250,2.5,625 ,312.5,156.25,100,0.4,6.25,05+10
50,220,2.5,1122,550 ,275 ,88 ,0.4,12.5,20+20

Secodary gloop is made a bit strong in damage.
There is a new ability for the secondary gloop to fall on a surface and remain intact rather than dividing into smaller gloops.
Rest is same as in UT2004

q) Assault Rifle -
As the new Enforcers come, I think it might be a better idea to incorporate it so since Assault Rifle isnt a major weapon, I have left its balancing out.

This comes to the end of all the features the mod will incorporate. The weapon properties might be confusing at the start but some detailed look on the propereties will make everything crystal clear. So all I ask is be patient & think hard before giving suggeations.

As all the features I was willing to expose is being written in this lengthy page, I hope you give your suggestions to improve this mod. So that the UT2004 movement system gets it recognition it deserves. The details I have given are just by assuming UT2004 made in UE3 engine. Everything depends on how Epic shapes the characters & armour system of the game so that those solid ideas accompanied with the best UT2004 concepts can merge to give a solid 1vs1 duel mod. Thats it.

{RA}SKYFURNACE
21st Apr 2005, 06:01 PM
..... this game isnt due out for at least 18 months... and your talking about a mod for it? and with items that wont even be in it...

and how can you make changes to something you have no idea what its going to be?

and if you wanna talk to the "pro's" i suggest you go to either www.prounreal.com or http://www.ataricommunity.com/ forums as to consult with the "pros".

:)

Just curious if you are a "pro player"?

Selerox
21st Apr 2005, 06:06 PM
Er, the lighting gun, minigun and the biorifle won't even be in UT3. So unless you want to recreate them, then you're out of luck.

JaFO
21st Apr 2005, 07:41 PM
Couldn't these "pro"-players do themselves and the rest of humanity a favour and just stick with their current 'favourite' game ?

That way "Envy" can develop its own "pro-circuit" that's not tainted by the kind of pig-headed individual that can't adapt/adopt/improve like a true pro should be able to.

-AEnubis-
21st Apr 2005, 11:33 PM
Couldn't these "pro"-players do themselves and the rest of humanity a favour and just stick with their current 'favourite' game ?

That way "Envy" can develop its own "pro-circuit" that's not tainted by the kind of pig-headed individual that can't adapt/adopt/improve like a true pro should be able to.

Indeed. Adaptation.

With a massive reduction in hit-scan weapons, I think the SG will be changed, or have it's shield capabilities removed. Not to mention the weapon changes/removals we already know about, as stated above.

I also would instinctively believe that they will be changing the item system to further make control aspects of DM difficult. From UT > 2kx, they offed the respawn times to make them supposedly "harder to track", and made availible "wild card item spawns" so that you don't know the time for a location, because it changes every spawn. The next logical step would be having a "Item base", not specific to the powerup, and configureing it to the map what, powerups cycle between how many based, basically randomizing it. Another thing they could do is have 3 seperate respawn times for each item, and cycling them randomly.

Nothing to that effect has been stated though. We can't really assume (considering how things did change in the past), that they won't change to the next game.

T2A`
22nd Apr 2005, 04:17 AM
So, you're planning to take UT2004 1v1, make it in UT3 two years from now, then get rid of all the problems the UT2004 1v1 situation has? Why don't you just wait and see if UT3 is competitive enough? I agree with the others here; you can't call yourself pro if you cannot adapt to the new game in a series.

edhe
22nd Apr 2005, 04:28 AM
Make your own bloody game ffs.

One thing most of us hate is the 'pro' scene coming along and demanding/using mods that changes the good old well developed balanced game *that we bought*.

Things like brightskins, single grenade spawn - or back in UT with the Bio rifle's reduced damage, .. why?

IMHO You should avoid a '1v1 pro player mod' and go for something slightly alternate like 'modSalian' where you can have a custom gametype that's like RA or airbucs and code your own weapons, your own maps and generally leave that to another scene, let the rest of the 99% of actual gamers get on with things.

/rant.

Vedanth Salian
22nd Apr 2005, 09:37 AM
Thats what I want to do. The guys who will worry about the 1vs1 competitive scene will play the mod. I dont expect you guys who dont care about competitive gaming play it. Do you get it. Im a noob in programming. So this mod should give me the experience to know more about UScript and all that thing. So it doesnt mean Im going to hate the time doing this mod just for the competitive scene.

Im not the one who is saying the next UT is gonna be ****. Im really looking forward for a casual approach game. Im really looking forward to Onslaught & Conquest that will please a heck a lot of casual gamers. As a fan myself I want Epic to win and Im going to play their games forever because I think they are the best in their business. Im not a pro gamer myself. Its just I had a lot of fun with UT2004 1vs1. So that let the next Envy just please casual gamers like halo 2 and not ride 2 boats of pleasing the pro & the casual. They are going to sink if they take the UT2004 approach.

edhe
22nd Apr 2005, 10:03 AM
Just make sure it's a proper mod, not a mutator like utcomp.

JaFO
23rd Apr 2005, 08:07 PM
exactly ...
a proper 1v1 mod could even attract casual players provided it's done right and the associated community is open to newbies & 'casual' players.

1337
23rd Apr 2005, 08:15 PM
Mutator or mod doesn't matter. The competitive community should be able to make what they want. If you don't want to play with utcomp don't join a utcomp server. UTComp is a great mutator btw. If you are so pissed off about mutators and such pay for your own server, or filter it out.
*edit* how can one spam the shock primary? If you click on the enemy it registers a hit. :con: And if this is a competitive mod it should have decreased weapon switch time.

-AEnubis-
24th Apr 2005, 02:36 AM
You spam it the same way you spam any weapon. Just firing it at every soonest oppritunity you have to fire it without letting up, lining up a shot, or swithing weapons inbetween shots, or even using the other fire the weapon has.

Spam isn't about firing another shot before you even know if the first one resolved successfully or not. Spam is about spray and pray. Taking shots, even if you don't neccessarily have a good one to take.

Try to think about the last time you and I faced off. I rarely shoot just 'cause I can. Lately, I find sometimes I wait too long to shoot, looking for a good shot, mostly because in TAM, when your team sucks, you find conserving ammo is an issue (and TAM is all I play anymore). Hit-scan or projectile, the difference is the attitude in which you fire it. Shoot a alot, and play the numbers game = spam, or shoot when you have a good shot and play the skill game = not spam.

Beam spam is the only spam in this game I have a problem with lately, and self-proclaimed "leet" players get away with it under that same mentality.

1337
24th Apr 2005, 03:20 AM
This is why WS off TDM plays so well. You can't spam a weapon, unless your team is in complete control of the map resources. I think they should lessen the max ammo for shock, but reduce the amount of ammo the shock combo consumes. 4 combos off of pickup sounds about right. But 20 primary shots seems a bit much. It is a lot easier to deal out damage with primary than with the shock combo and the combo is more situational, when the shock prim is effective at any distance, even close range. Plus, the first shot you get on someone setups the second shot because of the momentum translated into the shockee. The shock rifle is one of the most controlling weapons in the game. You can move someone in the direction you want them to, either by firing a potential shock combo their way or shock beaming them into submission.

T2A`
24th Apr 2005, 03:28 AM
Hence why I often refer to this game as Shock Rifle Tournament 2004.

-AEnubis-
24th Apr 2005, 03:31 AM
That is just the wrong way of going about it. I'd rather see the shock rof reduced.

Control is what it is. Personally, I think it's boring. It (in my eyes) is the only good reason to turn off weapon stay. More so then weapon stay, weapon throwing facilitates spam. I if you wanna implement a control for spam, and still keep the game fun (the way the game exists currently) do it that way. Ever played (T)DM on an epic official server? They are the only ones I've seen that don't allow weapon throwing, and unless I'm very cognicent of it, I run out of ammo all the time, and have to start taking more careful shots, or leaning (better I mean), and whoring ammo pickups. On the other hand, 80% of my deaths aren't with the SG/AR7 in hand, so fun is still had.

The SG is fun to frag with when you want too. Not so much when you have too.

1337
24th Apr 2005, 04:12 AM
A game can't be fun if it isn't serious at the same time. No one wants to play a game that is pure randomness, and no real reason to move from one place to the other. TDM ws off is awesome becuase it gives you a reason to have to move to a certain area of the map (well made maps atleast). Timing pickups and such isn't boring at all. It may not be random. But I get tired of 16 people DM servers and getting killed by the rocket spammer at the end of the hallway.

And yes, that has to do with ws off. Pickup times brings order and a logic into the game. Sure goofing off and getting shield kills is fun and all and randomly picking uncalculated fights with people for no reason and no logic behind it and then getting shot in the back by some weasel smart enough to only engage people when their back is turned can be fun to a certain extent.

But once you get to the point where you've done almost all the completely mindless screwing around you possibly could do, you have to find something that requires a bit more concentration and something to sharpen your mind with. You have to control areas and pickups. You have to make smart decisions in picking battles. Sometimes you are the chaser and sometimes you are the chased. Sometimes you are designated a role in a team, and sometimes you have to switch roles dynamically when the circumstances change. There is a logical driving force behind the actions you take. This is why I enjoyed my experiences in Europe servers even though I pinged 200 to them.

TAM is a fun gametype because it isn't about controlling powerups and everyone starts with a set amount of ammo and armor plus they don't have to go collect weapons. And there isn't any spam.

-AEnubis-
24th Apr 2005, 04:48 AM
See, though, that is the common mis-conception. Not every shield kill made, when another weapon was availible to you, is "goofing off". I can't count the number of times I've strategically baited people only to switch to it for it's raw damage, and get frags in all seriousness.

The real fun is finding a use for something that is accepted as realistically useless, and exhibiting an even deeper level of strategy (like using the SG against your peers). Timing items is mostly number crunching, and calculating risk according to those numbers. The absense of that doesn't detract from strategy, but instead invokes a whole new strategy, especially in TAM type mods where you have all weapons. Then it's about knowing what gun your opponent has, or would best use, and either making it less effective by positioning, or useing that same positioning to provoke him to switch to a weapon you can counter more effectively, or have a plan to counter. Team efforts can add into to it too. If I got a good teamate, who knows how I play, or how to keep somones attention, I've set up flank attacks with the SG in the past, that worked great, even in a competative arena. Also, the SG in an allweapon environement is rarely suspected to be used, so people don't always act in way that makes it difficult to use. Sometimes even after they hear it they act as though they have forgotten how to counter it.

I keep refering to the SG because of how it's viewed, especially in that gametype, and as well, how I'm finding all kinds of uses for it, and it rocks.

The other thing is you complain about dying from spam in weapons stay environments, yet, what is the difference in tactically timing weapons you get vs tactially avoiding spam? Spam is predictable (much like spawn times of anything when they are static). That is it's one major down fall. It's not smart, and if it is, it's not spam. Do you every pick anything up in a duel without looking both ways before crossing the street? FFA WS DM is no different. The only difference is your awareness has to be more extensive, because you have more then one target out to frag you. You also have to assess many other things, map size vs player count, known preference of other players gained by observation, map flow, and how layout effects popular places to fight, etc. FFA DM is no random chaos walk in the park. Everything happens for a reason.

I really don't see any said versions of play requiring any more or less skill, or tactics then the others. I also don't really see any of them involving any more luck then any of the others. It's all just different kinds of skills, and most people will be biased by what they are good at, or what they prefer to focus on.

So when all said and done, is what is fun for you. My view? It's not fun playing hide and go seek, when you want a weapon, and your persuer knows where you are, and is fully armored, and equipped. Especially if he has nothing more to worry about then getting frags on you. It's even less fun to have 350hp, and all the weapons you want, and spawn frag somone, as they resist you SG out. Most 1v1's are decided in the opening seconds of the game. I like it when the only thing anyone has to worry about is the frag. Having all the tools to start with just makes it more interesting to watch. Frags are also more gratifying when your opponent can and does fight back. Pickups is loose, loose for me.

IMO full randomness would be great. I think the adaptaion of dealing with whatever you have, and not knowing what that is going to be would require more skill then any existing method of play.

1337
24th Apr 2005, 05:56 AM
TAM is a great gametype. I like the scoring based on damage you've done not the actual frags.

Yes, it really is what is just fun for you. And for me in DM and FFA there is too much chaos and mindlessness (because I don't understand it or don't want to). TDM isn't about "hide and go seek" it is about holding your ground for a reason and completing objectives using everything at your disposal for your team. And people are more predictable in TDM, because there is a common goal. I don't find it fun "strategically" avoiding spam areas. The most effective way to play FFA is getting bulked up by playing defensive then just preying on the helpless while running away from the skilled. Seldomly do I see two of the top score players dueling each-other. You are a different breed than most of the top scoring DM players. I've specced you a couple times on DM servers, and you don't play defensively at all.

All that stuff about SG isn't strategy, it is tactics, and not that I don't like SG, because it's awesome. Shield jumping, using shield for various reasons, and popping enemies that dodge too aggressively at you adds a lot to the game. Number crunching is fun for me. Timing weapons is fun for me. Calculating exactly when someone will flop dead is fun for me. Actually working for every weapon and benefitting from having those weapons at your disposal is fun for me. Being able to have a more involved situational awareness is fun for me. Dropping weapons for teammates and trying to hold the amp area till someone better equipped or armored for an amprun is exciting to me. TDM without ws off doesn't seem as much of a team effort. It makes me not want to die holding the amp area. It makes me want to run away from the enemy with amp when I'm in the position to do enough damage so a teammate can finish him off. Without ws off I feel like snagging the 100 shield with 10 health. It doesn't feel as gratifying doing things for the team that may net me less kills without ws off. Another thing I like is shifting of control. Feeling the control of the game is fun. I'm not good at DM tactics and such. I can't predict as to when someone will change to a certain weapon and such. I find it easier to predict behavior from other players when I only have 4 or 5 people to observe. It feels so good depriving an opponent of the weapon they whored and are helpless without.

I think my fav gametypes in order would be Warmupmode:p/TDM wsoff/TAM/TrialAS:D/AM/IGTDM/CTF/TDM/other gametypes/and DM. RKT doesn't count as a gametype. I think of RKT as more of a mod than a gametype. I lack the DM skills or awareness to get frags without playing a way I find fun. Unlike yourself and others, I'm not good at predicting what the players are going to do in a FFA situation. I often run into targeted areas because I don't know what else is fun to do in DM except engage in random duels with people, so I go to the most traversed area of the map. Unless of course I get shot in the back while dueling one too many times then I just start doing anything I can to release my frustrations on the server. Either by getting some place unaccessible to others and sniping or super spamming or shield camping a teleporter or doing other cheap things, just to piss people off. And I don't really care that they get pissed off and think I'm cheap, because I don't understand DM etiquette at all.

*edit* I actually had a couple good DM experiences. One was when I kept on spamming "I'm on your team, Idiot!" till someone said affirmative. And we didn't fire at eachother we just helped eachother out and shared the shield and such. We ended up in the top 2. But it was cool becuase the other player was just a random stranger that had the same humor as me. DM can be really fun when screwing around with a cool group of players that aren't all ego and have a sense of humor. One time I was acting like a pacifist and started chatting messages like "WORLD PEACE" or something like that and standing out in the open and didn't move just turned and looked at everyone as they threw rockets at me and such. Eventually people started to ignore me and some even joined in. One good thing cool about DM is deaths don't matter. So you can do the most crazy things and no one will get pissed off at you becuase you aren't ruining the team score. Like shield dodging at people and trying to charge them with shield gun, or showing off a new trick jump to people that haven't seen it before. DM can be a fun experience when playing with chill people, but I find my experience with DM online is too dependent on how fun the players are. Trial Maps usually attracts players with positive attitudes.

-AEnubis-
24th Apr 2005, 04:16 PM
Aye, DM's lack of seriousness, especially in pubs, can make it as fun as warmup mode. I like TAM because it's like ordered warmup mode. ...and it caters to my style of play in so many ways.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind trying ws off TDM. Problem is most of the people I play well with hate it, and I don't know if it's because we don't practice it, or just because they have a solid disdain for not being able to have whatever weapons they can reach. I may be willing to try that style of play with a more practiced team, but all in all TAM is the only thing keeping me playing this and not FFXI again. Having teamates as another optiont to get weapons from might make no WS more tollerable.

I'm realizing more and more lately, that I do better in "crowd control" situations. I straight suck at 1v1. Something about the concept of only have to track and pay attention to one target... and then when you don't have teammates to thow you a weapon, no weaon stay really sucks. I just don't like having what weapons I do have shape what section of map I can traverse, and be effective with it, while trying to get to other weapons on a time schedule (it's not that I dont' know what it takes). I think maybe it's too many years of DM, where you have to factor the guy flanking you at random, and when you've got the option to be that guy, flanking somone else while he tries to get some other frag. After teaching myself how to walk into a room where a 3 way frag exchange is going on, and divert/exploit where their attentions are so that I come out with as many of those 3 frags as possible, it's just so different when your one target is only focused on you. In 1v1, another huge thing is calculating how much damage you do, which is easy, barring when I can't see them re-up on health, especially after trying to calculate 3 damage exchanges going on in the above situation.

We've LAN'd since U1, with at least 3, mostly playing FFA for 5 years. The cool thing is it's given me the necessary skills to pretty much do anything else, it's just a matter of me tollerating the necessary strategy's at play.

...and yeah, I hunt the guy in first, and it doesn't hurt me all that much all the time. The idea is if he's not equiped, he's less able to get frags. There are so many angles you can take in DM.

All in all, I like the meat of my thought in game, to be on what my target is thinking, and out thinking him, without obvious numbers to influence him. Predicting when times are involved, isn't really prediction. It's more like assessment of how good he is at doing the same thing you need to do. I like it when everyone is free to think and do anything. Predict, and be unpredictable.

SubCog
4th May 2005, 08:28 PM
y'know what I'd really like to see in a 1v1 mode? How about multiple simultaneous games? So instead of having to wait and watch (you could still watch if you wanted to), you could choose to match up with another player on the same server. I don't think it'd be too hard to code. Just code so the server matches up those who wanna be matched, and then those two players can only see and interact with each other.

What'd be really cool is if the server could set up a tournament ladder this way. Lets say it randomly pairs each set of partners for the first 5 minutes, then announces winners and re-pairs based on those results, and slings everyone into another 5 minute round (on the same map, without loading or anything). Newcomers would simply cycle into the tournament ladder. Depending on how many players there are on the server, they each might play 4 or 5 mini-rounds, then the final winner is announced, along with the runnerups, then it loads into the next level.

Dark Pulse
5th May 2005, 09:35 AM
y'know what I'd really like to see in a 1v1 mode? How about multiple simultaneous games? So instead of having to wait and watch (you could still watch if you wanted to), you could choose to match up with another player on the same server. I don't think it'd be too hard to code. Just code so the server matches up those who wanna be matched, and then those two players can only see and interact with each other.

What'd be really cool is if the server could set up a tournament ladder this way. Lets say it randomly pairs each set of partners for the first 5 minutes, then announces winners and re-pairs based on those results, and slings everyone into another 5 minute round (on the same map, without loading or anything). Newcomers would simply cycle into the tournament ladder. Depending on how many players there are on the server, they each might play 4 or 5 mini-rounds, then the final winner is announced, along with the runnerups, then it loads into the next level.
Sounds like a bastard hybrid of Rocket Arena and Quake 3's "Tournament" mode.