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togmkn
18th Apr 2005, 08:09 PM
I was wondering if it was on anyone's top priority list to make a mod when the new UT comes out. The main reason that I was considering getting UT2K4 for was the staggering amount of mods. The single player laddder looks fun, the demo was fun, and I can't imagine the multiplayer being any less so, but the mods! So many! Very impressive with the amount of mods in UT2K4. Does anyone know if this will be the same in UT: Envy? Now I don't think I'll get UT2K4 because of Envy, and if as many mods for it are coming out as it's precursor, all the more reason to just get Envy.

JaFO
18th Apr 2005, 08:49 PM
I propose a mod-system for Envy that automagically erases the game (and formats the pc) should any of these words be spotted in the mod :
- Counterstrike
- World War 2
- Terrorist
- AK
- UZI
- Desert Eagle
- Beretta
- Beta
- Release Candidate
- Trial
- Alfa

;)

The_Head
19th Apr 2005, 11:16 AM
^^ lol

I want more unreal weapons!

Tournament0
19th Apr 2005, 11:48 AM
This is a Unreal game, so the answer is probably yes.

Taleweaver
19th Apr 2005, 12:41 PM
This is a Unreal game, so the answer is probably yes.
Very true. It's kinda hard to predict, but if the game ships with a fully featured and documented editor (which is very likely), you can be sure it's gonna have a good deal of Quality Mods as well.

But togmkn...Envy is over a year away from being released. That's plenty of time to play UT2004 in, but that's just my opinion.

JaFO
19th Apr 2005, 01:52 PM
Given the amount of work and possibilities of this engine I predict two things :
- there will be an awful lot of mods announced ...

- very few will reach beta or better quality, because the amount of work required (and the quality expected by the public) is easily double that of the UT2kx ...

togmkn
19th Apr 2005, 08:45 PM
yeah, so many mods listed on the mods section of this site just...stop...after a while.

Discord
19th Apr 2005, 09:00 PM
yeah, so many mods listed on the mods section of this site just...stop...after a while.


Yeah, that always happens.

But if there's another contest, you can bet they'll be lined up out the door for their chance to win a license to the engine... just as it's about to become obsolete. :lol:

Ignotium
19th Apr 2005, 09:38 PM
the most original MOD i've ever seen is Air Buchaners
i'd definitely love to see it on U3

anyways, YES i'm damn sure that MODs will make UT3 explode

JaFO
19th Apr 2005, 09:42 PM
most mod-teams have enough problems finding decent animators/modelers now.
Imagine trying to find someone that can do justice to the models required for UE3 ...

Nahand
20th Apr 2005, 05:04 AM
... new engine, new incarnations of Ops and Terrorists and all, like JaFo said. It's quite sad nobody with modding power ever gets the creative line going. I still see modding as an extension of a main game. If such game is really pleasant to play, most people won't bother that much with modding, or at least until it's in a near-retail state. From some game engines now, everybody plans in making the l33t mod about WW2 and CTerrorist for a game they haven't even played...

JaFO
20th Apr 2005, 08:57 AM
not only do they plan, they're already building models & dreaming of ultra-complex possibilities without even considering whether they're even possible or fun.

Looking at UT2kx-mods I'd say the chance of a mod surviving is best gauged by :
- their website : the more impressive the website, the less likely the mod will finish
- their list of personell required : the longer, the less likely the mod will even start
- the amount of 'news' they generate : more news = crappier mod

In fact I'd be tempted to say that a mod-team that even announces its existence before they're near release is destined to fail. Especially at this stage.

Black_Seeds
20th Apr 2005, 04:24 PM
Not trying to destroy the negative theme going through this thred ;)

Yeah sure there will be some useless/unreleased mods announced, but there are bound to be SOME quality mods released. Just like Red Orchestra did with 2004.

JaFO
20th Apr 2005, 07:28 PM
Sure there are, but at what cost ?
Even the best are endless betas or have pretty much died after MSUC finished.

I think that RO is pretty much the only mod that's showing signs of life.
Troopers only recently came back to live.

togmkn
20th Apr 2005, 11:04 PM
Amen to that Nahand. I would now like to simultaneously give you half the UT2K4 mod descriptions on their websites:

SomethingOps is a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004.
In SomethingOps, you are an ops with objectives that must be completed, and have been put in this B.S situation because of (insert lame storyline here, include words "freedom," "terror," and "perfection.")

I mean, come on. TacOps, SpecOps, ShadowOps, NightOps, FrapOps, PosOps, when will it stop? They all have a guy wearing Counter-Strike gloves, black with fingers cut off, and your loadout includes an M16, MP5, Beretta 9mm, Glock, and knife. I'm not insulting modders out there, contraire, I feel that many of these mods are under-appreciated, and I am always amazed when I see a mod that changes everything about the game, especially because the biggest mod I ever made fixed a grammatical error in SWAT 3. However, the blandness of mods needs to change. And being an "ops" gets old after a while, all this military crap is getting to me.

Nahand
21st Apr 2005, 10:09 AM
... i feel i must notice one small point: i'm not against a mod team hard work and dedication. The main problem i see is that almost *every* mod team that gives use to that nomenclature bases their efforts on yet another incarnation of a dead-beaten proved formula and adds little substance to that (when at all). We all know about CS and its fenomenal success, but everybody trying to make "their own" CS in a engine gets hard on everybody. CS was sucessull with HL. That's it. Let legends stay where they are bets. (for the record: i don't like CS, prefering Wolf:ET any day)

Even some "out-of-the-box" mods for UT200x based themselves too much on proven gameplay mechanics... the overall feeling is the same game we've ever played, with a different skin (can be applied to any MOD in any engine)...

togmkn
21st Apr 2005, 06:24 PM
Yes, I agree with you there too. I bought HL2, and it came with CS: Source, so I play it occasionally. But still, why the HELL is the original CS so popular? I've been trying to figure out what makes it so popular, and I have no idea. It's not the most fun game in the world, but according to csports.net (http://csports.net) it's WAY ahead of the second place game, and apparently people prefer realistic shooters over Unreal-style shooters. (Futuristic.) I prefer futuristic, but I guess modders are just trying to go with the flow making realistic shooters. If you notice, they're all realistic/WWII shooters on the top list. BF1942, COD, ET (that's a no brainer since it's free,) AA (also free,) CS, DOD, MOH, etc. Apparently people like abbreviatable games, too...

JaFO
21st Apr 2005, 07:32 PM
exactly nahand. It's almost as if modders are afraid of a little experimenting. As if their release needs to be the next CS or it will be doomed a failure.
Unfortunately it doesn't help if the fans have the same attitude (OMG Airbucs only has 2 servers it is a failure/crap).

As for CS's success ... I think it is popular because it is a succes and it's a succes because it's popular. Any other reason for it becoming a succes is irrelevant at this point in time.

Explanation ?
You start CS and there's literally thousands of good servers to chose, which means that lag and all the other 'problems' of the internet are invisible to the gamer.

Pick any 'recent' / newly released game however and the lag-issue raises its ugly head and players (that until that time never head to deal with those things) start screaming 'sucky net-code' and blaiming the new game ...

Nahand
22nd Apr 2005, 06:27 AM
... yes, unfortunately that seems to be the rule :/ ...

[...]doesn't help if the fans have the same attitude (OMG Airbucs only has 2 servers it is a failure/crap). [...]

... i should notice that when i get a game its usually to stick with it (even when getting new ones, obviously). It confuses me sometimes when i see people posting on forums saying they're moving on to other thing and almost completely forgetting the previous game.

Also, i should note that some of my favorite MODs are JailBreak for UT and Generations for Quake 3 Arena. These MODs have usually 1 or 2 servers with people, out of 5 or 6 total ping'ed servers. As long as they keep those servers running and playing, the MODs play, and i assume they're not *dead*. I prefer 1 or 2 good servers rather than a crap load of 'em without people OR with weird configurations (yes, i'm against iGib and ZARK :p )...

Vedanth Salian
22nd Apr 2005, 09:54 AM
Its because of you guys topugh attitude towards WWII & realism kind of mods are going to take a lot of enthusiasm from mod devolopers. Its good man if you like fast gameplay but remember these mod teams are so professional. You cant dismiss their hard work altogether. Even Epic Games want all these WWII & realism kind of mods to be done in the awesome UE3 engine. They want these mod devolopers. So instead help Epics cause & dont show negative impression on these mods.

Nahand
22nd Apr 2005, 10:08 AM
... if EPIC is recruiting from MOD teams that show off "just" with WW2 and other realism MODs, then part of what takes to work at EPIC in -generally- unrealistic games is not there to begin with. I also stress once again that i'm all for MODs and quality MOD teams, but do those "near-professional" actually going to listen? No. They make those "generic" MODs in hope they get noticed by the industry - wich is not a condemnable move, quite on the contrary - but at the "expenses" of entire game communities that can only count pretty much with these themes.

Originality... that's all i'm asking...

shadow_dragon
22nd Apr 2005, 12:31 PM
I personalyl don't find the realism mods a problem anymore. I used to, immensely during UT and at teh start of UT2k but... well these days it's not so bad i mean we got AirBuccs and Clones and ChaosUT with a spattering of U4E still making their presence known and the realism mdos?
Well are there really that many this time round?
It doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as it used to be, if anything it's jsut the general lack of modding rather than the bias towards realism this time and i never minded realism, i kinda enjoy it sometimes and i can see the attraction, it a can be a more believable gamestyle than unreal.

Denny
25th Apr 2005, 12:20 AM
PosOps, lol.

I agree with Nahand and JaFO i mean come on do we really need 20 realism mods that ultimatly have the same exact thing but with one aspect changed? I mean join together and make one real sweet realism mod with many options if anything.

Another thing that bugs me is having to download a 500+ MB install each mod realease, that's severly annoying. I mean sometimes it's required but it's just annoying. Another reason i won't download mods for UT2K4 (well the big one's anyway)

1337
25th Apr 2005, 12:25 AM
lol, why don't you try making a mod. If you come up with a good mod idea and get a team together investing that much time into it, cheers to you. But don't be dissin mods when they are presented to the public for free of cost.

Denny
25th Apr 2005, 12:30 AM
lol, why don't you try making a mod. If you come up with a good mod idea and get a team together investing that much time into it, cheers to you. But don't be dissin mods when they are presented to the public for free of cost.

Wuz I Dissin y0? No, i just merely said it sucks having to download 500 MB installs, doesn't mean the mods suck and i wasn't "dissin" ****, so whatever.

1337
25th Apr 2005, 12:36 AM
Wuz I Dissin y0? No, i just merely said it sucks having to download 500 MB installs, doesn't mean the mods suck and i wasn't "dissin" ****, so whatever.I dun give who teh **** y0 b dissin y0 cuz dis forum aint bout talkin **** about mods that some chill people put a lot of hardwork into.PosOps, lol.This would qualify as dissin "****"

Denny
25th Apr 2005, 12:50 AM
Amen to that Nahand. I would now like to simultaneously give you half the UT2K4 mod descriptions on their websites:

SomethingOps is a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004.
In SomethingOps, you are an ops with objectives that must be completed, and have been put in this B.S situation because of (insert lame storyline here, include words "freedom," "terror," and "perfection.")

I mean, come on. TacOps, SpecOps, ShadowOps, NightOps, FrapOps, PosOps, when will it stop? They all have a guy wearing Counter-Strike gloves, black with fingers cut off, and your loadout includes an M16, MP5, Beretta 9mm, Glock, and knife. I'm not insulting modders out there, contraire, I feel that many of these mods are under-appreciated, and I am always amazed when I see a mod that changes everything about the game, especially because the biggest mod I ever made fixed a grammatical error in SWAT 3. However, the blandness of mods needs to change. And being an "ops" gets old after a while, all this military crap is getting to me.

Hmmm....funny you didn't attack this guy for originally saying it, it was quite funny, i guess *******s like you don't have a sense of humor. And i still never "dissed" any mod ya feel me?

1337
25th Apr 2005, 01:12 AM
Saying someone's mod is a piece of **** is considered as "'dissin'"
His post is more constructive criticism, your's is just in the talking **** category, and no, I dun feel it. And now you call me a "***********":eek:. I never labeled you or called you a name. I have a sense of humor and "posOps, lolol" is the type of attitude we as a community don't need. Hmmm... funny :-)

Denny
25th Apr 2005, 01:15 AM
Okay, let's handle this in an adult fashion. Now true laughing at that was not cool, and i apologize for that and to the makers of the PosOps mod (if that's the mod you say i called a piece of ****, then yeah that was not cool i was not aware one existed, and i took it out of context).

I apologize for the slang and curse words. I still don't see how the rest of my post was not constructive though, and saying that i am not wanted in the community is kind of a Hyperbole.

1337
25th Apr 2005, 01:29 AM
Okay, let's handle this in an adult fashion. Now true laughing at that was not cool, and i apologize for that and to the makers of the PosOps mod (if that's the mod you say i called a piece of ****, then yeah that was not cool i was not aware one existed, and i took it out of context).

I apologize for the slang and curse words. I still don't see how the rest of my post was not constructive though, and saying that i am not wanted in the community is kind of a Hyperbole.Alright. Sorry for being crazy and accusing you of things you don't deserve being accused of. I didn't say you aren't wanted in the community. I was trying to say something else, but I think you didn't comprehend it the way I wanted you to, just as I didn't understand what you posted the first time I read it.

Denny
25th Apr 2005, 01:37 AM
Alright. Sorry for being crazy and accusing you of things you don't deserve being accused of. I didn't say you aren't wanted in the community. I was trying to say something else, but I think you didn't comprehend it the way I wanted you to, just as I didn't understand what you posted the first time I read it.

Fair enough, no i get your point, i would never insult or lash at any mod creators i mean i respect they take the time to create mods for the community and hey that's great, i mean can't say that's bad at all.

Dark Pulse
25th Apr 2005, 04:19 AM
Get a room you two. :)

Black_Seeds
25th Apr 2005, 04:28 PM
I think that RO is pretty much the only mod that's showing signs of life. Troopers only recently came back to live.

Although some pretty promising mods are in development right now. Defence Alliance 2, Counter Organic Revolution, SoulKeeper etc.

NeoNite
25th Apr 2005, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't mind a "One flag CTF" mod. Or the mod being included with the retail game.

Lauren
26th Apr 2005, 10:14 AM
I readed in a dutch gaming magazine that modding ''envy'' is so easy that a little baby could make a mod. the modders dont need to script the game or something, there will be a special modding tool in it or something ''but this can also be bull**** what that magazine writes''

:cake:

JaFO
26th Apr 2005, 11:14 AM
You're probably referring to 'Kismet'-feature, which probably is the equivalent of form-editors in Windows-RADs for UnrealEd.

I doubt it's as easy as they tell you. It probably saves the average modder from reinventing the wheel for a lot of basic elements in maps.

Denny
27th Apr 2005, 12:58 AM
I wouldn't mind a "One flag CTF" mod. Or the mod being included with the retail game.

Agreed, i like BoomBall for UT and that would be pretty sweet to see that in Envy as well.

Discord
27th Apr 2005, 01:04 AM
I wouldn't mind a "One flag CTF" mod.

Er... they did that, it's called BR. ;)

Man, you missed a lot...

NeoNite
27th Apr 2005, 06:25 AM
Discord']Er... they did that, it's called BR. ;)

Man, you missed a lot...

No, I haven't. I have UT2003. I've played the demo when it got released. I've played the UT2004 demo and that's it.
Not that much, but still...

Bombing run.. pfff.. never really cared for that gametype.

Fragball for UT was probably, who knows, the main source of inspiration.
Fragball is fun, bots work fine/ok.. I wish there were more maps.

I'm not talking about anything like bombing run, I'd love to see a "One flag CTF" mutator.

An extra flag.

So that would mean you'd end up having 3 flags in the game. Your own, the enemy flag and the extra one.

Nahand
27th Apr 2005, 10:34 AM
... humm... the point being? Besides One Flaf = BR as someone said earlier, even if not exactly the same. The point is?...

Yoshiro
27th Apr 2005, 09:39 PM
I would love to see Epic reach out to the modding community that is still commited to Unreal Tournament 2k4 with help develop for Envy before its release, but thats just a wish.

Black_Seeds
28th Apr 2005, 02:02 AM
I'm not talking about anything like bombing run, I'd love to see a "One flag CTF" mutator.

An extra flag.

So that would mean you'd end up having 3 flags in the game. Your own, the enemy flag and the extra one.

I would call that "Three flag CTF" instead of "One Flag CTF to erase confusion (altho that might give the illusion there is three teams)

NeoNite
28th Apr 2005, 06:29 AM
Nah, it's mainly about that one extra flag. The others don't matter that much, since you can't "cap/move" them...

Bombing run. It's about a ball, this is about a flag.


If you want to compare BR to anything, it's Fragball... or boomball I suppose ^_^


(ok, in essence it isn't that much of a difference)



If you'd call it "three flag ctf", people would probably think you need to cap 3 flags...
I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Black_Seeds
28th Apr 2005, 08:07 AM
If you had to get the flag and take it back to YOUR base then I wouldnt compare it to BR. But if you have to take the flag to THEIR base then its BR with a Flag. called call it Flag Run :)

NeoNite
28th Apr 2005, 05:24 PM
Nah, doesn't sound good.

What's with adding the "run" all the time?

One-flag, it couldn't be more clear really...





Besides, taking it back to your own base would make it too easy.. compared to taking it to the enemy base.