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LeHobs
10th Apr 2005, 12:00 PM
Hi everyone,

I need feedback on my latest creation:
(link updated with current version)
DM-Kotam (v0.95) (http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam_v0_95.zip) (use right click - "save link as")
DM-Kotam (v0.95) (http://files.filefront.com/DM_Kotam_v095/;3858409;;/fileinfo.html) (Filefront)

Some screenshots:
(screenshots update with current version)
http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/Shot00021.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/Shot00022.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/Shot00023.jpg

Thanks & Take care,
Hobs

barballs
11th Apr 2005, 06:52 AM
wow this looks pretty cool. I'll download and give you some feedback over the next few days. Nice choice of architecture though!

T2A`
11th Apr 2005, 12:23 PM
I can't get the download to work, and I don't speak French so I have no idea what the site is trying to tell me. Screenshots look nice though.

LeHobs
12th Apr 2005, 02:53 AM
I can't get the download to work, and I don't speak French so I have no idea what the site is trying to tell me. Screenshots look nice though.

[right click] > "save link as" works, though! :)

barballs
12th Apr 2005, 07:48 AM
I had a play through it last night. I am getting screens and stuff for you for the things that i noticed. First off tho it is possible to get "out" of your map. I'll show you where so you can add blocking volumes.

The slide ramps are very unique if a little hard to get used to. I'll have more for you later along with a Complete A.I. analysis if you want too.

LeHobs
12th Apr 2005, 02:07 PM
I had a play through it last night. I am getting screens and stuff for you for the things that i noticed. First off tho it is possible to get "out" of your map. I'll show you where so you can add blocking volumes.

The slide ramps are very unique if a little hard to get used to. I'll have more for you later along with a Complete A.I. analysis if you want too.

Hi Barballs,

I really appreciate the effort you are putting into this analysis!

To your points:
1) I indeed did not have a look at the ways to get out of the "normal" path in the outside area, although I know it is theoretically possible because of the design. I'm looking forward to see your comments on this.
2) The slide ramps I did design with a forward strafe-jump combination in mind. One is not possible at all because of the height. All other are makeable: the bots can do it!
3) I already tried to do the bot pathing with the map specifics in mind, so the AI uses also the "exotic" paths. Anyway, I had some issues afterwards with the weighting of the nodes: these stupid bots always seem to go for the sniper rifle first, and remain in the red room at the bottom. I'm also looking forward to see your comments on this :)

Thanks & take care,
Hobs

T2A`
12th Apr 2005, 10:41 PM
1) As you can see, you can stand here.
2) You can get out of the map at any point with the shield gun, as well as up here. The whole thing needs to be blocked in. You don't even need to use your shield gun where that terrain sits up against the wall; you can dodge up that and get out.
3) Circled area needs lighting.
Not pictured) Wherever that thing that's too high to dodge up has some flickering going on by the supports on the wall.

As for the general stuff, some of the lighting is way too bright. I'm assuming this is due to the sunlight actor's light mixing with the nearby lights before it lights up the floor. Gameplay is okay, but pretty limited. The map feels too overscaled and it makes the already-too-small player models really hard to see. The connectivity seems a bit off, as there aren't many ways to get to higher levels from below. I also ran around with the assault rifle way too much, so the weapon placement probably needs to be looked at.

LeHobs
18th Apr 2005, 03:48 AM
1) As you can see, you can stand here.
2) You can get out of the map at any point with the shield gun, as well as up here. The whole thing needs to be blocked in. You don't even need to use your shield gun where that terrain sits up against the wall; you can dodge up that and get out.

3) Circled area needs lighting.
Not pictured) Wherever that thing that's too high to dodge up has some flickering going on by the supports on the wall.

As for the general stuff, some of the lighting is way too bright. I'm assuming this is due to the sunlight actor's light mixing with the nearby lights before it lights up the floor. Gameplay is okay, but pretty limited. The map feels too overscaled and it makes the already-too-small player models really hard to see. The connectivity seems a bit off, as there aren't many ways to get to higher levels from below. I also ran around with the assault rifle way too much, so the weapon placement probably needs to be looked at.

Thanks for the feedback ,

1) I think this may depend on the way the geometry was optimized during the build - I checked, there is no invisible terrain there...
2) Known problem, I'm setting up blocking volumes
3) fixed

Change log:
- added some light for dark area 3)
- darkened the sunlight a bit (it's night after alll)
- tuned up the terrain
- reviewed paths, trying to balance a bit more between lower, and upper area. Added a new path to get up. Still lot of work to do in this area
- run some tests with a scaled down version of the map

Updated beta version won't be available before 1-2 weeks... stay tuned

Thanks,
Hobs

LeHobs
6th May 2005, 03:44 AM
Hi all,

I did some updates to the map!

The revised version is available under:
DM-Kotam (v0.92) (http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam%20(v0_92).zip) (use the "save link as" function)

(screenshots removed)

Change log:
- scaled down the map a bit
- darkened the sunlight
- tweaked the terrain
- added some new paths to get up
- changed item placement / botpathing
- added blocking volumes on the verge of the upper area
- added a music file (experimental) :)

I would really appreciate some feedback/suggestions on
- item placement
- music track :lol:

Take care,
Hobs

Taleweaver
6th May 2005, 12:29 PM
Hmm...Your link seems to be somewhat broken, LeHobs :hmm:

"Save as" downloads only 9 kb, and simply clicking gets you to an ancient Egyptian page with symbols like this:

ސ}"`Ni ?@# ڙOlGQ.^1M N|ւiV|j"}

Kantham
6th May 2005, 12:35 PM
mhh , got trouble downloading.

LeHobs
7th May 2005, 12:17 PM
I checked the link again, it works (maybe the french server was down yesterday)
Please be patient, and use only "save link as". The file is 7.2MB
DM-Kotam (v0.92) (http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam%20(v0_92).zip)
Make sure you downloaded version 0.92!

Sorry about the inconvenience, I don't have any other server... :(

EDIT: added mirror (Filefront)
DM-Kotam (v0.92) (http://files.filefront.com/3851604)

Kantham
7th May 2005, 12:26 PM
Yea , it put me on the french server , and i got this

Vous essayez de tlcharger un fichier d'une page d'un membre Lycos MultiMania, en hbergement gratuit :
http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam (v0_9).zip

Traduction : You are trying to dowload a file from a page of a registred member of Lycos Multimania , In free storage :
http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam (v0_9).zip

I don't tryed to copy that link , since the browser put me on a chinesse Nowhere page after 5 seconds


Wierd :con:

Anyway , i got it now.

Kantham
7th May 2005, 01:53 PM
A bit brushy heh? ;)

I really like the way you dealed with bsp. The lightning is a bit hard for my eyes , and too dark in some places. That would be great to low down the sunlight actor , and bright up the zone light a little , maybe by 20.

I took a couples of screenshots , each one of them got a bug or a little fixing need.

============================
http://img219.echo.cx/img219/2156/shot001581bl.th.jpg (http://img219.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001581bl.jpg)

Here , nothing much , just a little dark bsp line spot.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/111/shot001596fy.th.jpg (http://img226.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001596fy.jpg)

The jump pad is great , but , a little too big? Maybe if you put wood around and a nomral pad in the middle?

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/3687/shot001602ni.th.jpg (http://img226.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001602ni.jpg)

Bsp collison error , i can float here.I already had that problem once before after doing curved bsp form the 2d shape editor.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/7234/shot001610df.th.jpg (http://img226.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001610df.jpg)

Here you can see the difference betwen the dark walls and the Lightfull floor.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/8859/shot001635qr.th.jpg (http://img226.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001635qr.jpg)

Bats? well , at this point , i can camp here , and if i want to return in the arena , i need to suicide, fix that.

http://img226.echo.cx/img226/887/shot001642px.th.jpg (http://img226.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot001642px.jpg)

Good idea here , but it took me a while before i got the hang of it , maybe if you put a platform like in rankin , that would be better than strafe jumping on curved bsp.


A very good map , i really like the sky and the AMBsound are not anoying imho. The map have some trigered sound when you get on the wooden light holder. I liked that.

LeHobs
8th May 2005, 12:04 PM
Hi Kantham,

thanks for the feedback!

Looking at your screenshots & your comments, I guess you tested version 0.9 (which is ok, since I only uploaded v0.92 some days ago).
I darkened the outside lighting in v0.92, as well as other fixes.

To your points:
1) I thought this was the shadow of the decoration above?!
2) I'll consider scaling it down a bit
3) ...collision... always the same when you try to use curved surfaces
4) as stated above, the lighting was changed in v0.92
5) thanks for pointing this out, this was really easy to fix
6) I designed the map with this idea in mind, so I'm not really willing to change it... btw, the bots use it well...

Greetings,
Hobs

T2A`
8th May 2005, 11:22 PM
Just played v0.92... Still really easy to get out of the map with the shield gun. :D Put blocking volumes around the whole thing and make them taller. Don't mind Kantham about the curved dodge ramp. He's just a nub. ;)

Map played better this go 'round, but the bots still liked to congregate down near the sniper rifle. No real need to go anywhere else to win the match; just stay down there and take them out the whole time. I played with seven bots and six of them were down there with me at one point. Map scale felt better and I didn't notice any overly-bright lighting, so I guess all that's been cleared up. I'll play it again tomorrow and pay more attention to the item/weapon placement.

BTW, that music is, uh... Well, I'd advise not to use it. :o

Kantham
9th May 2005, 08:06 AM
Don't mind Kantham about the curved dodge ramp. He's just a nub

:mad:

Oh whatever , i am not a maniac of Trick jumping anyway. I just tryed that ramp , and one bsp line blocked my dodge , you really need to stick to it to do the jump.


;)

Taleweaver
9th May 2005, 12:50 PM
Just played v0.92...
How do you guys manage to download the thing? :confused: I still fail whatever I try to do with the link (not that there is much I can do with it). Google only brings up the .9 version. I'd like to take a look, so can someone fetch me a link that doesn't require me to log on into Lehobs' account?

EDIT: nevermind. Got it to work. :)

T2A`
9th May 2005, 01:23 PM
Right-click, save as worked for me.

Taleweaver
10th May 2005, 05:37 PM
Let's see...I kinda disagree with Kantham on two points, which basically means you're on your own on these:
-I like that enormous jump pad. It's original and moody. I'd advice to lower it a bit, though, so you can walk on it instead of having to jump onto it.
-that upward curved road (Kantham's last pic) is also fine with me. It's actually one of the simpler jump pads: just face it and dodge(jump) forward.

More notes:
-don't use spaces in the name of your .zip archive, plz. It screws up UT2004Mi ;)
-the other wooden plates are hard to jump onto in a firefight; I think it's not 'cause of the angle or the length, but because of the irregular floor at the base. If you don't start out close enough, you hit the base instead of the ramp and you don't jump.
-the water pool isn't water but just a sheet. It doesn't splash, and at this height, players should almost swim.
-weapons are spread out too far. Add in a couple more.
-I don't think you altered your ammo placement together with the weapon placement, as it is 100% wrong (it's best to wait with ammo placement until you're sure about where you want the weapons). I think your map is also too big for 'just' 2 ammo packs nearby each weapon, so think out a system of ammo packs to scatter around the level.
-as for weapon placement: ppl will use the weapons most wherever they can find it, so try to put these in spots that correspond to this, while at the same time keeping the hitscan, spray and explosive weapons not too close to each other. I would really put the sniper rifle and the flak cannon somewhere different.
-the way I see it, bots don't "congregate" the sniper rifle, but rather at the bottom of the map. Put in a couple extra jump pads to the bio gun/damage amp area to get a better upper-lower connectivity
-the stuff you put at the highest levels shouldn't be this close to the wall

Nice theme, though. I won't dare to comment on the music, as I just bought a new headset. I still have to get used to things here... :)

Kantham
10th May 2005, 05:39 PM
-that upward curved road (Kantham's last pic) is also fine with me. It's actually one of the simpler jump pads: just face it and dodge(jump) forward.


Yea , i know , i don't have difficulties with the jump , you just need to stick with the wall. But it took me a while to figure out. :p

LeHobs
12th May 2005, 07:39 AM
OK, thank you all for the usefull feedback.
I'm getting slowly a picture of how I could fix this, but it may take a while.
Let's say at least 1-2 weeks.

Stay tuned!

LeHobs
28th May 2005, 01:34 PM
Hi all,

version 0.95 is out, and is getting very close to final (I hope!), so I'll need you guys, and your wise comments once more!

The links have also been updated at the top of the thread:
DM-Kotam (v0.95) (http://membres.lycos.fr/lehobs/ut/DM-Kotam_v0_95.zip) (use right click - "save link as")
DM-Kotam (v0.95) (http://files.filefront.com/DM_Kotam_v095/;3858409;;/fileinfo.html) (Filefront)

Change log:
- Item placement (changed weapons, added some more, and more ammo)
- (Bot)pathing (added a new path to make things more interesting around the RL)
- some other (minor) tweaks

Thanks & take care,
Hobs