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leafo
6th Apr 2005, 10:11 PM
One thing I absolutely HATED about ut2k4 was the cheesey GUI(Graphical Uer interface) And how the menus and stuff worked. I thought it looked ugly and wasnt functional. One of the things I loved about UT was the GUI. The whole desktop interface was an interesting concept, and I wish they could build off of that for Envy. I liked how you could set the desktop on or off so you could still have the game going on while you went through menus. I liked how the interfaces looked good and were functional. So one of my wishes for the next UT would be to bring in a GUI system like the old UT, but expand on it at the same time. Like turn the desktop into a desktop where you could have folders or icons with your favoite server, or your mods, etc. That pseudo hi-tech large font and interface they have now is just ugly. The fonts need adjusting and colors need to be fixed. Maybe they could look to operatin system for ideas, a sleak and function window system.

T2A`
6th Apr 2005, 10:40 PM
I don't really mind UT2004's GUI save for one detail. I know it can be improved, but I don't hate it overall. The one thing I do hate is I ALWAYS intuitively hit back to change gametypes rather than go to the gametype tab, even though I've had the game for a year. Not being able to change the gametype on the fly is dumb.

Xipher
6th Apr 2005, 11:11 PM
Although, the Menu like system of UT2004 was alright, I would really like to see the old UT style setup again too, or something similar. It was nice being able to have all those windows. The other thing, is the UI feels to "big" in UT2004, its like its all crampt, where UT was nice and spread out. Plus, it would be great to be on IRC with UT, but have the server browser window open at the same time :D.

Go&nd
6th Apr 2005, 11:43 PM
No doubt: To recapture the magic of the original UT, UWindows needs to make a triumphant return in UT3. :)

NiteX
7th Apr 2005, 12:20 AM
I agree with all of you here I would love to see the return of the classic UT menu setup. I hated 2k3's menu and 2k4's was a small step up. I really loved how some mods had animated clips as the background. I think Neo Cario had this. I also rathered the style of the single player menu in UT. I hope they make it similar to that as well.

[MD]FT
7th Apr 2005, 08:36 AM
I thought that the UT2004 GUI was really good

Taleweaver
7th Apr 2005, 08:54 AM
FT']I thought that the UT2004 GUI was really good
Same here. :tup:

I agree that the UT99 interface was better (everything was just a couple clicks away), but that doesn't make this interface bad or ugly. In fact, I think Epic deserves an extra thumbs up for the filter menu: a complex task, yet completely intuitive (not that I use it much).

edhe
7th Apr 2005, 09:02 AM
imho it's still clumsy and could be reworked - IE instant action on 2k4 was rediculous HCI, took forever then it skips tabs...

Dark Pulse
7th Apr 2005, 09:39 AM
UWindows would be awesome as well IMO. The 2k3 design was, no doubt, due to Unreal Championship, and UT2004 was a step in the right direction, but it is still, for some, confusing. (Me? No problems, of course. ;))

Still, UWindows would definitely be some nice Icing on the cake.

Tournament0
7th Apr 2005, 11:11 AM
I didn't mind UT2004's GUI.
But I hope Epic will make a better one for Envy.
:tup:

Bot_40
7th Apr 2005, 11:12 AM
yeah, I'd absolutely love to see a return to true UWindows UT style, but I remember epic saying a while back it never felt like a "game interface". I just got doubts that they would go back to such a scheme.
imo the optimal thing to do would to include both types of interfaces, so power users could select UWindows and a desktop if they wanted, but it would default to the "intuative to use" UT2k4 style menu. Of course I don't suspect that would happen either with all the extra work :)

fireball
7th Apr 2005, 04:25 PM
I don't really mind UT2004's GUI save for one detail. I know it can be improved, but I don't hate it overall. The one thing I do hate is I ALWAYS intuitively hit back to change gametypes rather than go to the gametype tab, even though I've had the game for a year. Not being able to change the gametype on the fly is dumb.
Hey, someone else who does that by instinct too!
I think the idea behind UT2004's GUI was ok, but they just really didn't choose what to put where very well (for example, the weapon hand choice on the Player tab instead of the HUD tab, and I still think that basic things like number of bots and score limit should be on the gametype screen...)

The_Head
9th Apr 2005, 11:59 AM
I still haven't got the hang of the UT2004 menus.
although I never got the hang of the UT99 menus..... (mainly because my pc crashed if i tried to open something quickly :P)

I would love to the the old one back though, it looks much better. I dont like the bright freindly look UT2k has. 2k4 was an improvement over 2k3 though. That crap menu music isn't there.

Perhaps be able to choose between both menu sets? and be able to add in new themes or something?
Lets see how many different ways we can mod this game! lol

Selerox
9th Apr 2005, 12:35 PM
The menu system for UT200x was, and is, awful. I don't know who desgined it, but they need to be whipped, as well as whoever thought the main menu screen of UT2004 was acceptable to use in the game.

Ideally, I'd like a return to UWindows, but failing that, a total redesign to make it easier to navigate and better to look at. I'm hoping Epic can do that, the menu system throughtout UT200x was a bit of an embaressment tbh.

JohnDoe641
9th Apr 2005, 01:59 PM
The 2kx menu system itself is quite nice, it works well and it doesn't cause delays when opening menus, atleast on my computer, unlike uwindows which constantly paused for a few moments after a window was open. I also don't get the graphical lag I had whenever uwindows was open. I like the functionality of the gui, I just don't like the graphical representation. It's too cheesy. :c

The_Head
9th Apr 2005, 02:51 PM
I just don't like the graphical representation. It's too cheesy. :c
Couldn't Agree more

Selerox
9th Apr 2005, 03:19 PM
it doesn't cause delays when opening menus

Weapons menu causes a delay of anywhere up to 3-4 seconds when opening, and my rig's hardly obsolete.

The_Head
9th Apr 2005, 03:54 PM
The Weapons Menu takes 20 seconds on my Athlon 2100+
My brothre's takes longer as he has a huge amount of weapons mods in. SO if he clicks it he goes out of the room and comes back in 2-3 minutes.
Would be nice If they could stop it taking so goddamned long.

Its annoying in the middle of a match online, say you wanted to change ur crosshair etc

Taleweaver
9th Apr 2005, 05:10 PM
Weapons menu causes a delay of anywhere up to 3-4 seconds when opening, and my rig's hardly obsolete.
That's because the system checks every single time for new custom weapons. I'd rather not have that check, and instead add a button with 'check for new installed weapons'

JohnDoe641
9th Apr 2005, 06:13 PM
Weapons menu causes a delay of anywhere up to 3-4 seconds when opening, and my rig's hardly obsolete.
That's not the menu, that the weapons models and textures loading.

Selerox
9th Apr 2005, 06:57 PM
That's not the menu, that the weapons models and textures loading.

I know that. It's still a flaw. Wether it's the menu system itself or something linked to it, it's still a flaw in the system when it gives a delay on the menu switch. I'm not sure why there isn't an option to remove the (very pointless) weapon models in that menu.

Ragna
9th Apr 2005, 07:41 PM
I too think the UT2kX was/is cheesy. What the hell were they thinking using some font that we use in MS Word?
I wish for a return of the 'UWindows' type GUI, like what Selerox mentioned.

You can even change the theme colour. :D

ThirtySixBelow
9th Apr 2005, 09:22 PM
The one thing I do hate is I ALWAYS intuitively hit back to change gametypes rather than go to the gametype tab, even though I've had the game for a year.

+4

Nereid
9th Apr 2005, 10:08 PM
I'd definitely love to see UWindows back in some form in UT3, but of course, that's what we wished for in UT2003/4. The GUI does have an effect on the feel of a game, and UT's was great.

fresh&minty
9th Apr 2005, 11:19 PM
The 2kx menu system itself is quite nice, it works well and it doesn't cause delays when opening menus, atleast on my computer, unlike uwindows which constantly paused for a few moments after a window was open. I also don't get the graphical lag I had whenever uwindows was open. I like the functionality of the gui, I just don't like the graphical representation. It's too cheesy. :c

I agree with everything you say but cheesy, who cares. I'll take a functional interface over anything.

T2A`
10th Apr 2005, 02:55 AM
They're trying to make the game more n00b friendly, so I doubt they're going to take the models out of the weapons page. It'd be nice if the weapon ordering menu was its own separate window so it'd only load the weapons when you specifically requested it to, not when you're trying to change the color of your crosshair.

I hope UWindows comes back and is fully customizable, including wallpaper, menu placement, music, etc. 'Twould be nice.

Is 'twould a word?

1337
10th Apr 2005, 03:01 AM
UTComp voting system rocks. I hope that Epic tries to makes their's as easy to use as UTComp or atleast I hope there will be a community mutator similarly made when the next UT comes around.

Bot_40
10th Apr 2005, 10:06 AM
hmm, been thinking a bit more and I find the idea of a desktop quite interesting now. I imagine icons which could be shortcuts to frequently used match settings. For example, you have an icon which just loads a DM map with 9 bots and a specfic map rotation. Just double click and you're in the game. Then you can simply have icons for all your favourite setups. Also maybe icons for other stuff like irc channels and stuff.

imo, being able to heavilly customize your game is what really sets pc games apart from console games.

Go&nd
10th Apr 2005, 12:23 PM
For example, you have an icon which just loads a DM map with 9 bots and a specfic map rotation. Just double click and you're in the game. Then you can simply have icons for all your favourite setups. Also maybe icons for other stuff like irc channels and stuff.
That would rock. :D

ThirtySixBelow
10th Apr 2005, 12:28 PM
hmm, been thinking a bit more and I find the idea of a desktop quite interesting now. I imagine icons which could be shortcuts to frequently used match settings. For example, you have an icon which just loads a DM map with 9 bots and a specfic map rotation. Just double click and you're in the game. Then you can simply have icons for all your favourite setups. Also maybe icons for other stuff like irc channels and stuff.

imo, being able to heavilly customize your game is what really sets pc games apart from console games.

That would be quite cool, but i'm sure that would also be a pain in the ass to program. I would like to have something like that, but i'm not holding my breath that epic will take the time to do something of that sort.

The_Head
10th Apr 2005, 12:41 PM
That would be quite cool, but i'm sure that would also be a pain in the ass to program.
I can't imagine It being that hard to do tbh. There is probably some way of running it from a lot of windows code or something along those lines.

btw T2A 'twould isn't really a word. Unless your Shakespeare *shudders*

Would love to be able to save different game configs on a 'desktop' that would be sweet

Dark Pulse
10th Apr 2005, 05:14 PM
hmm, been thinking a bit more and I find the idea of a desktop quite interesting now. I imagine icons which could be shortcuts to frequently used match settings. For example, you have an icon which just loads a DM map with 9 bots and a specfic map rotation. Just double click and you're in the game. Then you can simply have icons for all your favourite setups. Also maybe icons for other stuff like irc channels and stuff.

imo, being able to heavilly customize your game is what really sets pc games apart from console games.
UTOS. :) And if you delete a thing, you get to kill it with a weapon of your choice.

ThirtySixBelow
10th Apr 2005, 06:42 PM
I can't imagine It being that hard to do tbh. There is probably some way of running it from a lot of windows code or something along those lines.

btw T2A 'twould isn't really a word. Unless your Shakespeare *shudders*

Would love to be able to save different game configs on a 'desktop' that would be sweet

Good luck getting microsoft to give you their windows code.

Xipher
10th Apr 2005, 08:50 PM
Good luck getting microsoft to give you their windows code.
Who needs that? Have you seen how many open source window projects their are to take reference from?

Now to the point, it still wouldn't be so related, as they are based on a different API. They would simply need to design it around the rendering API they made that uses either Direct3D or OpenGL.

The_Head
11th Apr 2005, 07:45 AM
I wasn't saying basing it on windows is the only way to do it.... Theres loads of programs that have a similar idea. I used Windows as an example as I think you'll find most people can picture it in there mind

Taleweaver
11th Apr 2005, 09:53 AM
UTOS. :) And if you delete a thing, you get to kill it with a weapon of your choice.
UTOS...Now that is the name the new UT should have :D :tup:

As a bonus note, you can add it to your resumé...
Me: My qualifications? Well, I got an thorough knowledge of Unreal Tournament Operating System, and...
Future boss (confused): Ehm... Can you tell me more about that?
Me: certainly. It's an interface, created with intuitivity and efficiency in mind. It's designed to allow end-to-end applications to be run between hosts over the internet...Hosts who also use UTOS, of course.
Future boss: Strange...I never heard of it.
Me: It doesn't have a solid reputation yet, but I've been using it since it came out...in my spare time.
Future boss: Well...It sounds good.

Arsenalvendetta
11th Apr 2005, 03:39 PM
I also think the UT2k4 GUI looked fine but there is definately space for improvement and with more features such as browsing from Unreal there is little room for error on Epic's side.

carmatic
11th Apr 2005, 05:30 PM
ok, speaking of the menus... i think that it should be more mod-friendly, like each installed mod should be represented in the configure controls menu, and they can each have full use of the keyboard... kind of like the | symbol in the user.ini file, like the menu system automatically adds those symbols as you configure more and more installed mods...

Vedanth Salian
11th Apr 2005, 08:37 PM
No doubt: To recapture the magic of the original UT, UWindows needs to make a triumphant return in UT3. :)


Cliffy B said there wont be UWindows as he feels Menu is actually a hindrance between you and the game.

Dark Pulse
11th Apr 2005, 11:07 PM
Cliffy B said there wont be UWindows as he feels Menu is actually a hindrance between you and the game.
CliffyB also said Graphics are more important then gameplay. :)

Selerox
12th Apr 2005, 01:35 PM
CliffyB also has nothing to do with UT3, and pretty much all his UT200x stuff sucked.

The_Head
13th Apr 2005, 01:33 PM
I would like to disagree there but......I can't think of anything good he has done for UT200x either :s

Bot_40
13th Apr 2005, 07:08 PM
Oh come on, he at least put in a good effort with Cliffyb's ownage version 2. Keeping it regularly updated, giving ownage to such great maps as Reigncaster and throwing out the crap like 1on1-pack.

...

oh, wait a sec ;)

Mr_Rose
14th Apr 2005, 04:52 PM
Personally, I'd like to do away with the menu system altogether:
With this new fangles "seamless loading" it should be possible to turn the whole UI into a map; when the game loads, it just renders the "main entrance map" from where you walk through the appropriate doorways to get to your map. Or the settings room. Or the online chat/player matching room, hosted on the master server(s). And so on...

My subconcious is telling me it's been tried before, but won't give up any details... anyone care to comment?

Bot_40
14th Apr 2005, 07:18 PM
That would just end up being frustrating, I don't want to have to mess around in a map just to start a game. And what about adjusting game settings? The whole point is to get an interface that is both powerfull and EFFICIENT to use. Running around in a map isn't my idea of efficient.
UWindows would, imo, be both if implimented properly. UT wasn't the most useable interface, but it was powerfull. UT2k4 was very simplified and easy to use if you were a new player but doesn't really allow for any customizability for "power users". Some sort of compromise needs to be found.

Ignotium
14th Apr 2005, 08:57 PM
the GUI suked all the way, as someone said UWINDOWS MUST COME BACK

i'd like to see a realtime preview of the graphic settings, instead of having to load a map and seeing them

GET RID OF THAT ****** AUTOAIM OMG

:)

carmatic
14th Apr 2005, 10:22 PM
yeah look at half life 2 and doom3( i think ) ... they both have windows in-game, clearly that is the right way to go

Dark Pulse
15th Apr 2005, 01:09 AM
the GUI suked all the way, as someone said UWINDOWS MUST COME BACK

i'd like to see a realtime preview of the graphic settings, instead of having to load a map and seeing them

GET RID OF THAT ****** AUTOAIM OMG

:)
...autoaim is off online/LAN anyway, you know.

Syri
15th Apr 2005, 06:56 AM
I think the interface i'd like to see would be the old ut menus at the top, but make them scale to size when resolution is changed though, so they don't go ultra tiny in high res. however, instead of the 'u' logo in the background, they could have the ut2k4 style selection screen as the backdrop, but with an option at the bottom to disable the backdrop and have a plain pic, so those that prefer menus don't accidently click the wrong button if the mouse slips or something. that way, both types of interface are present, so everyone's happy

Ignotium
15th Apr 2005, 12:04 PM
...autoaim is off online/LAN anyway, you know.

that is obvious, but still, WTF REMOVE IT ;)

Dark Pulse
15th Apr 2005, 06:32 PM
that is obvious, but still, WTF REMOVE IT ;)
Not everyone uses mice.

gades
17th Apr 2005, 07:56 PM
Ahhh, the ut99 gui.

Not the prettiest gui in the shed ... but the ability to have multiple windows open at the same time was pretty useful. I'd definitely like that back.
:cool:

rhirud
22nd Apr 2005, 10:21 AM
I've said this before elsewhere - for the single player campaigns, the gui needs to be totally reworked.

The example of a good gui is rome total war - the gui is half of the game - where you decide where to fight, and how to get hold of fighters (in rtw we are talking about strategies and armies) - but the concept still holds.

o.k. rome is a totally different game, and strategy is half the game - but if we think about many games - the transitions between levels are as interesting as the meat of the game.

First person shooters are the exception in this; and the lessons about the interface needs to come from other genres of PC games.

I say this because ut is different to other FPS's which can easily be transitionless and story driven.

Ut is essentially a series of rounds and duels and teamgames - and has more in common with RTS than FPS games in terms of round structure - and that is the standard that it needs to be judged against.

Bonehed316
22nd Apr 2005, 04:02 PM
Let me just say that, as a programmer having used BOTH, good riddance UWindows, and I hope you never come back!

UWindows was a HUGE pain to code for, which is why you will NOT see it come back. The new system is much easier (mostly due to advances in the language itself, plus the (albeit very half assed) GUI designer.

That said, UWindows was more fun to use, imo. What they REALLY need is a system like Visual Studio (or something like it), where you can come in and "paint" your controls on your "page", save it and viola you're done. Having done an entire menu (of over 20,000 lines of code), I can say this would save huge amounts of time, and take the annoyance out of doing the menus.

They can start by buying UDE (WOTGreal), and working from there to turn it into something that works cohesively with the engine. Not just as a GUI designer, but as a debugger and programmer TOOL instead of a crappy gay debugger (which sucks, btw), and a crappy GUI designer, and being forced to use notepad or some other 3rd party app to program in. Uscript is a huge part of the unreal engine, and needs some major attention. The level editor was given an overhaul, but it takes too long to load and hogs too much resources to be useful for a programmer. So something else, like UDE, would be wonderful.

carmatic
22nd Apr 2005, 06:20 PM
oowww.... typing 20000 lines in notepad... that must have been unpleasant??

Bonehed316
22nd Apr 2005, 11:29 PM
Well, in its own defense, a large portion of the lines was buttons and other controls, which are done by the GUI designer, but you still have to place them and copy/paste. And about 60 of the 123 classes are styles, which are 15-20 lines each, and mostly copy pasted, change a few words and save. So its not TOO bad, but it was a very unpleasant 4 days, to say the least.

Angel_Mapper
23rd Apr 2005, 12:05 AM
GUI coding is fun, especially when you find out that coding yours in each different resolution breaks it in your other ones. \o/

Bonehed316
23rd Apr 2005, 12:16 AM
Seriously, lol. But that can (usually) be fixed. At least I was able to (for the most part) fix ours, though it does suck a bit on lower resolutions (the fonts are just weeee bit to big). Screw those people, lol.