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Daedalus
6th Apr 2005, 09:50 PM
I'm sure by now you've all seen the screenshots an while it looks amazing, I can't help but notice that the weapons are getting...more accesorized and less practical. I mean, look at that flak cannon model. Only about 5% looks like it actually needs to be there. Yes high poly counts are great and all but just throwing a bunch of useless looking wires and junk onto a model is not. I hope all of the weapons don't look that accesorized.

SanitysEdge
6th Apr 2005, 10:02 PM
Yes, I too think they look like overkill. They look 10x bigger than they need to be, or fire really really really small bullets.

Zur
6th Apr 2005, 10:35 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=baroque

Go&nd
7th Apr 2005, 12:00 AM
Nice, Azura. :lol:

I'm hoping the current screenshots and drawings are only early ideas.

I definitely don't like the clunky, too-busy design of that Flak Cannon.

NiteX
7th Apr 2005, 12:13 AM
For some reason I dont think thats the final design for the Flak Cannon. Or at least I hope not. I agree that too much clunkage of crap on a weapon model can be a turn off. But, I would like to see very high poly weapons with style.

Xipher
7th Apr 2005, 12:30 AM
Personally, I like the new flaks look.

Olga
7th Apr 2005, 12:33 AM
I don't really mind how the new flak looks either.

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 12:45 AM
The new flak looks awesome, and awesomeness always takes precidence over realism.


Anyways, it aint that unrealistic, considering your launching somthing along the lines of 80mm tank shells at a high rate of fire i'd consider the whole bunch of big pistons a nescessity.

Bang Yr Head
7th Apr 2005, 01:20 AM
actually I love the new flak canon. it looks completely functional and realistic.

T2A`
7th Apr 2005, 01:48 AM
Agreed. The current one looks like a potato gun made of PVC. Well, almost.

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 01:50 AM
I shall repeat what I said in my post in Reclaimers thread in saying:

I WANT WEAPON VIAGRA!!!!!

I don't want a streamlined little flak cannon. I want a super-shotgun on steroids, the bigger the better. Like Firecrack says.. you are launching a small mortar at a high velocity... you think something like that comes out of a little pistol? The fact they make it as small as it is now seems more impractical to me. ;)

I also love the accessories on some of the guns. Not only is the bio-rifle one of my favs, it has an MP3 player on it dammit. That's just fookin' cool. Now I know where my tunes are coming from as I play. ;)

I'd also like to mention the flak in those screenshots isn't really all that big. WHen they are pointing it at you it looks huge in those shots but it's the angle. Look at the shots of them holding it across their body.... from the side view it looks the same size if not smaller than the current flak.

http://img195.exs.cx/img195/7864/ut27fi.jpg

Bazzi
7th Apr 2005, 03:38 AM
Well he needs to carry it, it cannot be as big as him :P

Doikor
7th Apr 2005, 04:30 AM
I think the new flak looks fine. But i keep the weapons hidden anyway so that doesnt matter that much to me.

BadAss84
7th Apr 2005, 04:49 AM
Hm i don't mind the design, but when i saw it i did think it looked more like how i imagined the 'cannister' gun to be rather than the flak :p

edhe
7th Apr 2005, 05:00 AM
Maybe let the designers and modellers express themselves? :)

Chunky Chunky ! /me wants to see the ASMD.

Mulch_D
7th Apr 2005, 07:40 AM
I have to join the group of people saying that this new flak cannon looks very nice, I hated the UT2003 Flak's looks with a passion, it was too small and organized for a gun that shoots small fragments of burning hot metal in every direction.

B
7th Apr 2005, 07:58 AM
Yeh I'm joining the same group as Mulch, my jaw was on the floor when I saw the revamped Flak, way better than the pea shooter it is now.

nick89
7th Apr 2005, 08:23 AM
Strangely Enough that Flak Cannon model concept was for UC2 - however looks like its on envy too.

Mulch_D
7th Apr 2005, 08:33 AM
Well as long as they furthar develop it, in http://www.beyondunreal.com/staff/raptor/ut3_malcolm.jpg it looks like it's cheap plastic toy, but if it were all metal and shiny like *drool*

Tournament0
7th Apr 2005, 11:17 AM
I'm sure by now you've all seen the screenshots an while it looks amazing, I can't help but notice that the weapons are getting...more accesorized and less practical. I mean, look at that flak cannon model. Only about 5% looks like it actually needs to be there. Yes high poly counts are great and all but just throwing a bunch of useless looking wires and junk onto a model is not. I hope all of the weapons don't look that accesorized.

Maybe the weapons are just concepts.
:hmm:

Daedalus
7th Apr 2005, 03:55 PM
I dont want it to look realistic. I just want it to look like a flak cannon, perhaps like UT's original flak cannon or even Unreal 1's flak cannon. Those all looked really nice for their times and they got the point across as "this gun shoots some really badass sh!t" But this new flak looks more like. "Well you got your flak cannon here in the middle, and some really cool shiny machinery here and the nice areas for cutting vegetables over here and there are some three pronged plugs over here!"

Realism has nothing to do with it, it's about getting the feel for it. More polys doesnt necesarrily have to mean more added crap onto a model.

The_Head
7th Apr 2005, 04:01 PM
I love the new Flakcannon. Its big mean and ugly. and has the sort of mech look like the matrix had :D

BTW, why are people complaining about it looking Unrealistic.
Remember the game is called UNREAL!!!!

NiteX
7th Apr 2005, 04:02 PM
Maybe let the designers and modellers express themselves? :)

Chunky Chunky ! /me wants to see the ASMD.

Do you care for the ASMD on UC2? I think it looks pretty great especially the beams in the front of the weapon. It is definitely a change from the older ones. I also just noticed the UC2 flak cannon is really similar to the Flak cannon in the UT3 pics. I saw someone say something about that before.

Go&nd
7th Apr 2005, 04:20 PM
BTW, why are people complaining about it looking Unrealistic.
Remember the game is called UNREAL!!!!
My question is: Why are people complaining about people complaining that it's unrealistic? :lol: I just quickly re-read the thread -- I don't see any complaints about lack of realism.

I think the thread starter and myself mentioned that it appears to have excessive, clunky details added just because they have the polygon economy to do so. It's just a preference in visual style -- not a complaint regarding lack of realism. The old cliché "sometimes less is more" comes to mind.

I prefer the original UT's Flak Cannon. It felt massive (which I like) but it had a more rounded, sleek design to it.

As Azura implied (I think ;) ), the current Envy model seems to have a baroque quality to it; it seems to feature excessive ornamentation which I personally see as clunky.

NeoNite
7th Apr 2005, 05:31 PM
I prefer the original UT's Flak Cannon. It felt massive (which I like) but it had a more rounded, sleek design to it.


Yeah, that's what I'd call a flak cannon. The newer versions just didn't work for me (I tried! Don't say I didn't!).

CyMek
7th Apr 2005, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I feel the same way as NN and Go. THe classic flack just loked like it was meant to shred ****. It was simple, but mean, and ugly. it got the point across that there was no messing around with the user.

iron12
7th Apr 2005, 06:12 PM
I'm sure by now you've all seen the screenshots an while it looks amazing, I can't help but notice that the weapons are getting...more accesorized and less practical. I mean, look at that flak cannon model. Only about 5% looks like it actually needs to be there. Yes high poly counts are great and all but just throwing a bunch of useless looking wires and junk onto a model is not. I hope all of the weapons don't look that accesorized.

Its for the Kids. :)

Daedalus
7th Apr 2005, 06:19 PM
Its for the Kids. :)

I guess you have to start putting the weaponry equivalent of car body kits onto things nowadays to get people interested ;)

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 06:29 PM
Hey i'm 15 and I dun like the new Flak Cannon. Why can't they have the old UT99 Flak Cannon model? It looked so much better back then.

NiteX
7th Apr 2005, 06:30 PM
I guess you have to start putting the weaponry equivalent of car body kits onto things nowadays to get people interested ;)

Heh, to tell you the truth some games already have neon lights on weapons. Well not exactly huge neon blubs that you see on cars. I'm talking about the little glow effects all over the model. Just look at the character models and the maps on UC2, full of little lights. It is really pleasing to the eye though. I actually hope to see more of this in UT3.

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 06:32 PM
isn't here a word for those "little lights"?

NiteX
7th Apr 2005, 06:39 PM
^ It's basicly a type of bloom effect.

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 06:42 PM
yeah now i remember. Lightblooming

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 06:47 PM
To be specidic fot this case, cornea (sp?)

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 06:50 PM
cornea?

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 06:58 PM
corona?

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 06:59 PM
finally, now i remember (remember more!) corona

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 07:03 PM
Its for the Kids. :)

It's an MA rated game. :lol:

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 07:24 PM
MA?

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 07:30 PM
Mature Audiences. 17+ to buy in the United States.

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 07:31 PM
Um, it's M, I don't think it's "MA"....I live in the United States too (San Diego, California)

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 07:34 PM
Oops you are teh correctz0r!
I'm 31 so i don't pay much attention to those things, hehe.

neilthecellist
7th Apr 2005, 07:36 PM
WHOA! You're 31 ? Wow, I'm 15 (neil points out the age difference)

T2A`
7th Apr 2005, 07:43 PM
Like OMG I'm 20!!!111111111 :crazydance:

:rolleyes:

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 09:40 PM
18 here.

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 10:12 PM
The Flak Cannon is 7 :)

(Well I tried to bring it back on topic)

Daedalus
7th Apr 2005, 10:25 PM
holy ****, this just turned completely useless. Great job you crazy kids.

Mulch_D
7th Apr 2005, 10:33 PM
The Flak Cannon is 7 :)
Coincedently in UT2004 it is the Trident Series 7 Flechette Cannon (yes I did look that up).

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 10:39 PM
holy ****, this just turned completely useless. Great job you crazy kids.


How exactly was it "useful" in the first place? :lol:

Daedalus
7th Apr 2005, 11:16 PM
How exactly was it "useful" in the first place? :lol:

I'm not quite sure, but it was more useful before the age attack.

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 12:05 AM
I'm not quite sure, but it was more useful before the age attack.


lol, I'm sorry, you guys...

Flak Cannon should be simplified. UT2004 was already at the "overkill" level in terms of look and model

JohnDoe641
8th Apr 2005, 12:22 AM
I'm 22. D:

Anyways, the Unreal Flak was the best hands down. But the new UE3 screen with the flak is just awe inspiring. :)

T2A`
8th Apr 2005, 01:08 AM
How is the UT2004 flak overkill? It's a circular pipe with a trigger.

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 01:21 AM
For comparitive purposes :)

Unreal
http://www.planetunreal.com/game/images/flakcan.jpg

Unreal Tournament
http://www.unreal-info.net/ut/images/flak.jpg

UT2003/2004
http://unrealtournament.com/images/ut2004/weapons_flak_cannon_b.gif

The new kid on the block
http://img218.exs.cx/img218/2628/ut76wp.jpg


Now if I was gonna pick one that was going to be a hand-held version of this:
http://www.cloudster.com/RealHardware/88mmFlak/edFLAK02a.jpg

I'm gonna have to go with it's newest incarnation.

The_Head
8th Apr 2005, 06:57 AM
I like the above one from Boogity.That looks pretty intimidating :p

The UT99 flak is the best, the UT2k4 one looks too nice. lol.
/Me looks forwards to big overkill Envy weapons

btw I'm 17

innociv
8th Apr 2005, 11:58 AM
You seriously liek the UT99 flak? When's hte last time you've seen it? lol
The new one does look more liek the ut99 flak than the ut200x one.
UT2003 went for a way more sleak look on everything and i dont' really like it. Some of the new ones int u2004 are going for a more extravocant look with more blockiness, more technical looking, then it got even more liek that in UC2 and now more ni UT Envy it would seem.
In all the screens there is a much grittier look to everything, alot more imaginative.

Myself I don't like the really sleak and curvy plastic molding around weapons ,i like how it looks like the insides ofthe gun is showing and cool animations showing your next rocket going in the the chamber, waiting to be shot out at someoens ankles.

NeoNite
8th Apr 2005, 12:05 PM
You seriously liek the UT99 flak? When's hte last time you've seen it? lol


Well, in my case a few seconds ago since boogityboy linked to a pic of it.

I won't change my mind. The UT flak looks best. Most suitable.
Eh.. just my take on it ;O)

It should be altered, adjusted though. But generally remain the same...
(Some extras, not too many.)

The UT2K3/4 one looks weird...0_° Just too weird.

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 12:08 PM
In UT2k4, I was like O_O "omg wtf is that? It looks like a toy from Fisher-Price Inc. !!!!! AHHHHH!!!! (runs around in circles) "

I mean, now it looks like a construction equipment kind of thing.....-_-

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 12:10 PM
Now lets all start in on 2k4's super-soaker-style Shock Rifle :D

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 12:15 PM
EW! Super-soakers...those were so lame....When I was little and played with them, I shot people with it, like headshots, and then they shot me back and were like, "We won, Neil, you lose" and I go "wtf, I shot you first."

Nahand
8th Apr 2005, 12:18 PM
... the whole problem is handling. I seriously deslike the new Envy design - compared to the predecessors, it's the worse. I don't even mind the yellow (after all, one of the colors i like). The main issue is HANDLING. Ever since the very first Flak Cannon (Unreal included), actually only the UT2003/2004 version managed to show something you could actually hold and use - even if i liked the style of U1 and UT flaks better. To be perfectly honest, all EPIC needs to do is to 'cut' those parts at each side of the barrel, making it more vertical-looking: the yellow upper parts would remain but get closer to barrel (still in obliquos position, but closer), side "techy" stuff glued to barrel and seen at lower parts. Lower yellow parts would be cut althogether. The end look would feel more or less like a 500cc motorbike with the carnage up, and engine parts bellow showing (though here, much closer to barrel)...

NeoNite
8th Apr 2005, 12:21 PM
Uuuuuuuhhh... I don't get it...

Uhu hu hu hu huhu..

Yeah hm hm heh hm!

http://www.cell2000.net/~users/Ryan/BNBWATCH.JPG

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 12:23 PM
what the heck?

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 12:24 PM
I'm trying to visualize it.. but it just isn't happening...

Nahand
8th Apr 2005, 12:25 PM
Now lets all start in on 2k4's super-soaker-style Shock Rifle :D

... the UT2004 version of the Shock Rifle (and i admitedly am not proficient with those, you shock-whores :p ), was a [necessary] visual improvement over the UT2003 version (wich looked like a '50´s sci-fi vacuum-cleaner of sorts :p ). The UT2004 version ends up being one of the best weapon design Unreal games ever had - it both looks convincing in handling and as a damage-dealing-weapon (minus the sound, maybe, but that's general for all Unreal stuff)...

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 12:35 PM
Man, you had to mention a motorcycle and flak cannon together didn't ya...

Now all I can picture for the new version is this:

http://img53.exs.cx/img53/5971/flakcannoncopy6qc.jpg

HOP ON AND HAVE A FRAG!!!!

Nahand
8th Apr 2005, 12:37 PM
... hehe :p ...

NiteX
8th Apr 2005, 03:55 PM
... the UT2004 version of the Shock Rifle (and i admitedly am not proficient with those, you shock-whores :p ), was a [necessary] visual improvement over the UT2003 version (wich looked like a '50´s sci-fi vacuum-cleaner of sorts :p ). The UT2004 version ends up being one of the best weapon design Unreal games ever had - it both looks convincing in handling and as a damage-dealing-weapon (minus the sound, maybe, but that's general for all Unreal stuff)...

I have to disagree with you there. I did like the 2k4 version better than the 2k3, but the UT Shock Rifle definitely had the right look. Actually I really like the UC2 Shock Rifle almost as much as the first UT one.

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 09:05 PM
contradicting opinions NiteX

innociv
8th Apr 2005, 09:09 PM
I think their best weapondesign so far is the canister gun. That hting is hottt.
I can't wait to see the new enforcers andwhat it looks like seeing two people holding them.

I just think the enw designing is perfect for the unreal series.

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 09:10 PM
but why two people holding it and not one? :confused:

Mulch_D
8th Apr 2005, 09:30 PM
Something I'd like to se the return off is looking at the ammo and knowing where it goes in the gun, like the moden Bio Rifle.

neilthecellist
8th Apr 2005, 09:42 PM
And in the Flak Cannon. Where does the flak ammo go in there anyway? :confused:

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 09:50 PM
I think their best weapondesign so far is the canister gun. That hting is hottt.

Where is this? Haven't seen it yet...

I need to see what they did to my beloved gooper!!!

{edit}
Oh you mean this one?
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/567/567449/unreal-championship-2-the-liandri-conflict-20041118051026104.jpg

Isn't that the UC2 gun? Doesn't mean it's gonna look like that for the new UT. As Deathcube pointed out to me while showing me the image....
Gotta love the pointless handle on top.

Xipher
9th Apr 2005, 01:06 AM
Isn't that the UC2 gun? Doesn't mean it's gonna look like that for the new UT. As Deathcube pointed out to me while showing me the image....
Gotta love the pointless handle on top.

True, but then again, I believe all the shots we have seen currently for UT (Envy) with the Flak, are actually the UC2 model, this could mean they are taking some of the models from UC2, and at least using them for a basis for the new ones?

To add, I don't remeber seeing any thing about a canister gun in UC2?

BooGiTyBoY
9th Apr 2005, 05:14 AM
Hmmm.. that shot came offa the UC2/Liandri Corp website :D

carmatic
9th Apr 2005, 09:11 AM
well extra polygons are allright, but as long as they have alot of moving parts too... just having one vibrating static mesh in your hand is not cool

it has to move around, rotate, and/or concentrate its movement on something, as if it was made for something, and you can instantly tell what the pointy bits on it does...

T-1
9th Apr 2005, 09:33 AM
That flak cannon looks like a car motor (I don't know why but that sentence made me think of Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force saying "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY FRIGGIN CAR!?!!?!"). I think I'll get used to it eventually, though. When I saw the UT2003/4 weapons I was like "That looks like total ****.". Then I got used to it.

carmatic
9th Apr 2005, 10:18 AM
UT2K3/2K4 weapons look like sex toys to me

Death Cube K
9th Apr 2005, 10:48 AM
Sex toys that shoot shrapnel? NVITE ME 2 UR ENXT PARTY PLZ!!1

The_Head
9th Apr 2005, 11:41 AM
LMAO!

The UT2004 shock rifle is sweet. Probs my favourite model though the UT games.
Also lookin' forward to the new Enforcers :p

That handle on top of the gun (canister gun i guess :s) is obviously for carrying it :p
Seriously though. are you gonna carry a big gun by the trigger handle bit (not good in naming gun parts) all the time? ----oh yeh its UNREAL.......

Can't wait to see some more shots of these sweet new models for Envy

Xipher
9th Apr 2005, 06:06 PM
One thing that I think would be cool to see with the canister gun, is if they rotate it by hand (slapping the thing so it spins), would be kinda cool to see that effect. I don't really expect it though.

neilthecellist
10th Apr 2005, 08:29 PM
You know what, Xipher, i'm with you. That would be cool 2 see.

carmatic
10th Apr 2005, 08:37 PM
yeah nothing like abit of good old fashioned ruggedness in the middle of all this unexplained tech that surrounds all the other weapons.... like this weapons so oldskool that you've gotta spin it manually to make it work!
maybe like, they can make it more 'realistic' by doing stuff like, if you consistently move the mouse when you are spinning the barrel (reloading, changing ammo, whatever) , you will take longer, and if you just point downwards , you will speed up the process... or something... well, its a manual-loading gun after all

neilthecellist
10th Apr 2005, 08:41 PM
That sounds cool. Hopefully Epic is reading this! ^_^

carmatic
10th Apr 2005, 08:47 PM
like , in those western movies, their revolvers always had to be reloaded pointing down, and they had to face downwards at their revolvers to see what they were doing... but this is UT and people can reload even when they are facing upwards, but the gun they are using is too oldskool to be easily reloaded so they do it faster when they are facing downwards like the western films

neilthecellist
10th Apr 2005, 08:48 PM
for this one:

no.

carmatic
10th Apr 2005, 08:49 PM
:(

neilthecellist
10th Apr 2005, 08:51 PM
well i mean, think about it realisitically, who wants to look down while reloading? :lol:

carmatic
10th Apr 2005, 08:52 PM
nobody... but then again, the gun can be extra powerful when it does fire, but it runs out of ammo in a clip before anyone could possibly want it to (except the people getting shot), so it makes people use it more tactically... or something... i hope, anyway

pardon me for going on a roll and stuff , but ive just thought of something involving that handle and manual reloading... maybe if they put some physics into the guns themselves, like what they do with dead bodies, maybe a half-empty rotating barrel will be heavy to one side, and if you move your view in circles you can swing the heavy end of the barrel around,as if you were shaking the gun itself... time it properly and you can cut the reloading time alot

or maybe, that should be the method of switching ammo types in the gun... like , you hit or hold down the secondary fire, or hit primary + secondary, to disengage the barrel or whatever, and just flick your view around to twist the barrel until it clicks in place....baah i need sleep

neilthecellist
10th Apr 2005, 10:21 PM
or you could do this in a MOD and not make it part of the original game cuz a lot of ppl would not like it! :)

UnrealGrrl
11th Apr 2005, 01:15 AM
i want a cheese slicer and wine dispenser on my flak cannon... come on its UT3!

Dark Pulse
11th Apr 2005, 01:34 AM
i want a cheese slicer and wine dispenser on my flak cannon... come on its UT3!
But UnrealGrrl, Friends don't let Friends frag drunk! ;)

edhe
11th Apr 2005, 05:53 AM
carmatic - since when has reloading featured in the unreal series?

Reloads = no.

Mulch_D
11th Apr 2005, 06:51 AM
since when has reloading featured in the unreal series?
Both of the Unreal games have had reloads Unreal had the AutoMag (and in UT the enforces had a reload animation based off it) and IIRC every weapon in Unreal II needed to be reloaded.
Wormbo mad a mod for the origanal UT that used the reload animation of the enforces and I really loved it, I'de like to see it added into Envy for the enforces.

Nahand
11th Apr 2005, 07:24 AM
... reloading is great... outside Unreal-Universe. Nothing else.

edhe
11th Apr 2005, 09:10 AM
UT would not take to reloading. UT's all about fast paced action all weapons, movement and fragging.

Not stopping for a moment to make sure you've got enough bullets loaded into yer peashooter. If UT adopted a reloading scheme then bye bye, not Unreal anymore...

carmatic
11th Apr 2005, 10:52 AM
yeah maybe it doesnt need reloading... like maybe we just need to flick the view around to swing the barrel into place to change ammo types, instead of binding a key to it the old fashioned way

like, maybe one reloading weapon amongst all other traditional UT weapons (not unreal weapons, the tournament ones dont need reloading) would keep things kinda fresh...like, make the weapon horrendously , naturally and irrepairably spammy, and tinker the reloading properties (clip size, reloading time, reloading requirements, etc) to de-spammify it and balance it with the other weapons...

edhe
11th Apr 2005, 11:43 AM
Your train of thought is heading to utterpointlessville.

The Cannister gun will have a selection of ammo. There will be no 'tinkering' of weapons as that will affect balance, which is key.

I think the cannister gun will end up like the blob gun outta Gunman Chronicles, if anyone knows what i'm talking about.

That was good, but once you had the right setting, defunct.

Nahand
11th Apr 2005, 03:33 PM
... i never found that weapon particularly enhoyable, especially with all options... but that applied to almost all weapons of Gunman... very silly M.U.L.E. configuring in the middle of a fierce combat...

carmatic
11th Apr 2005, 05:09 PM
That was good, but once you had the right setting, defunct
can you please explain this in more words? i cant seem to understand it well enough...

by tinkering it, like i meant something like what they did with the flak cannon secondary quite awhile ago... if its too powerful, tone it down abit by making it shoot less often... balancing like that can be done into a reloading system, because like reloading is a way to make a gun weaker, the more time you need to spend reloading, the weaker...

but anyway, yeah it was just a passing idea

edhe
12th Apr 2005, 04:39 AM
What you'd be thinking of carmatic is the fire rate time. The longer the fire rate / weapon switch time is for that weapon the less likely you're going to use it close in.

The gunman chronicles gun was complicated, go look it up ;)

neilthecellist
12th Apr 2005, 08:37 PM
i want a cheese slicer and wine dispenser on my flak cannon... come on its UT3!


Naw, not a cheese slicer, how about the Bastard Sword from UT99?

Dark Pulse
12th Apr 2005, 09:50 PM
Naw, not a cheese slicer, how about the Bastard Sword from UT99?
Except the Bastard Sword was ChaosUT. ;)

Daedalus
12th Apr 2005, 10:09 PM
hey did you guys know each gun reloads anyway? The flak cannon needs new shells, the rocket launcher needs new rockets, the sniper rifle needs new bullets :p You just don't notice because there's no animation.

Enji
12th Apr 2005, 10:16 PM
man its the Swiss Army knife of Flak cannons. I wasn't able to play the original UT and finding the original Unreal is so hard nowadays, so I dun know what those versions look like. Honestly its bulky and quite ridiculous lookin. and I don't even like the Flak Cannon. I like the Ion Painter and Minigun more.

FireCrack
12th Apr 2005, 10:59 PM
^Heathen!

Enji
13th Apr 2005, 12:36 AM
sorry man I just haven't I was just a kid when those games came out so I didn't know anything about them

Bang Yr Head
13th Apr 2005, 01:08 AM
I think the cannister gun will end up like the blob gun outta Gunman Chronicles, if anyone knows what i'm talking about.

actually, yeah I do. game wasnt bad, it had its moments, and the configurable weapons was a pretty fresh thing to play with.

my guess is that it will be able to just change between ammo types with a key, kind of like the grenade launcher in Unreal2.

Inferny
13th Apr 2005, 02:27 AM
let's hope it comes with as many diffrent grenades, a new grenade for every occasion! :lol:

NeoNite
13th Apr 2005, 06:22 AM
Except the Bastard Sword was ChaosUT. ;)

Which is a mod for UT ;O)

neilthecellist
13th Apr 2005, 08:17 PM
Regardless of whether it was ChaosUT, it came with the GOTY edition so I just say it's "part of the original UT99".

And the bastard sword kills Bastards like it should! Long live um, whoever holds the sword! (rips off medieval people)

Death Cube K
13th Apr 2005, 08:38 PM
Regardless of whether it was ChaosUT, it came with the GOTY edition so I just say it's "part of the original UT99".

But GOTY wasn't the original UT. The original UT didn't come with Chaos or Rocket Arena.

neilthecellist
13th Apr 2005, 08:56 PM
I know! I was just clarifying what I said before and how it didn't exactly make sense the first time.

Nahand
14th Apr 2005, 07:21 AM
let's hope it comes with as many diffrent grenades, a new grenade for every occasion! :lol:

... the best option is to use the primary fire to shoot and secondary to switch ammo. Simple and clean.

'Oh Nahand, you fool, what about Bio Rifle's secondary fire mode?'

... well, assuming the Cannister Gun is definitive, and believing in their concept of merging several "weapons" in to one like that, the Bio's secondary is quite expendable - if not necessary, as a straight shot of that is instaGib. The power of harnessing fast shooting goo of doom that sticks to walls and floors (proxy-style), mixed with a classical grenade type of ammo, and the other thing (humm... is there a 3rd thing?), is TEH P0W3r, fully loaded, in the proficient hands...


... also, Flak Cannon is one of the completest weapons ever to exist in a FPS (yes, i'm a Flak Monkey :p ). I'm quite franctly scared they didn't invest in a decent Minigun, and are instead bringing the goddam awful crap that is the Stinger. Rot in hell concept department!...

B
14th Apr 2005, 07:29 AM
I'm quite franctly scared they didn't invest in a decent Minigun, and are instead bringing the goddam awful crap that is the Stinger. Rot in hell concept department!...

So I take it you played the game allready? O wait, you didn't!! Then how the hell can you say it's awful crap?
You think they gonna port the stinger 1on1?
Just wait and see what they come up with, I'm pretty sure it will be something we're gonna like.

Nahand
14th Apr 2005, 07:34 AM
... seeing EPIC's work through all these years, i *am* skeptical...

carmatic
14th Apr 2005, 07:38 AM
imagine that the stinger is almost like the minigun, at close range , but at longer ranges its not hitscan... but a hell of alot faster than what was in the original unreal...

i still think that swinging the barrel with your view and clicking the different ammo types into place is cool... i think it shoots goo, mines of some sort, and probably concussion or fire because thats what team fortress had grenades for...

Nahand
14th Apr 2005, 10:39 AM
... according to the other thread, the 3rd thing are SpiderMines (in any way they implement those). Clicking on 2ndary fire to switch ammo of the Cannister Gun, and seeing the ammo "cannisters" moving into position is quite acceptable and within Unreal universe of things. I think EPIC will use this method - after all it's like the rotating barrels of a UT2004 rocket launcher would, or more accuratly, like the Unreal 2 grenade launcher behaved (Hydra was its name?) - it should be like it with less and more interesting ammo, IMO...

... the Minigun subject however, is much more "debilitating" to me. I don't use the Minigun that much (Flakkie serves about right for almost everything :p), but i do like to have the option of a fast-firing hit-scan weapon and removing it makes me feel naked in an unpleasant way (for me and surrounding people alike). According to what is known about Envy, the Enforcers are the only hit-scan weapon with a [eventual] decent ROF, and that's mainly only if you go akimbo. Facing a shock-whore with a shieldbelt and a certain distance and not having a fast hit-scan weapon to wear it down further increases my concern about what exactly EPIC think they are doing in terms of balance/gameplay. Obviously, only with the final product (or DEMO) on our hands we'll be able to judge it right, but... i'm worried. Besides, a lead-pumping Minigun will *ever* look and feel better/cooler than a weird weapon whose evil blue projectiles are based on a dreadful videogame/sci-fi cliché... In My Not-so Humble Opinion :p ...

edhe
14th Apr 2005, 11:00 AM
How about you lead the target with the fast projectiles, use skill?

And by the time you wear 'em down with minispam, you should be dead by proper hitscan weapons... so bad deal.

The stinger's been massively updated in UC2, so don't judge it yet. The minigun, nay the concept of a fast ROF Ping dependant weapon, is silly these days with so many people on broadband. In UT it was stupidly powerful, but it was geared for much worse network connections than were about. Even on Lan the tickrate was 'ok' for it, but with higher public tickrates and lower public pings, it's just an overpowered concept that will never be balanced right anymore.

Carmatic - this 'barrel swingin' idea of flicking your mouse would land you with suicides and helpless deaths aplenty, as you try to track a player and it does a 'reload' instead of a fire. Bad idea mate.

Nahand
14th Apr 2005, 11:10 AM
How about you lead the target with the fast projectiles, use skill?

And by the time you wear 'em down with minispam, you should be dead by proper hitscan weapons... so bad deal. [...]

... isn't the Pulse Rifle (or Link Gun...) suppose to fill that role? Hum?...

Peregrine
14th Apr 2005, 12:55 PM
man its the Swiss Army knife of Flak cannons. I wasn't able to play the original UT and finding the original Unreal is so hard nowadays, so I dun know what those versions look like. Honestly its bulky and quite ridiculous lookin. and I don't even like the Flak Cannon. I like the Ion Painter and Minigun more.

Man I even have it loaded on my computer at work!!! LOL
1 minute later. Just for you.
;)

Bonus points to anyone guessing the level...

The_Head
14th Apr 2005, 02:17 PM
CTF-Hydro32

Nahand
14th Apr 2005, 04:41 PM
... CTF-Hydro16 ...

neilthecellist
14th Apr 2005, 11:34 PM
Bah what's the difference? It's a UT99 map.....kick@$$ !! Not one of my favorite UT99 maps, but still good nevertheless.

Enji
15th Apr 2005, 12:38 AM
Man I even have it loaded on my computer at work!!! LOL
1 minute later. Just for you.
;)

Bonus points to anyone guessing the level...
thanks man, you guys are right the old flak cannon is great but I still prefer the minigun ^_^