PDA

View Full Version : My suggestions to EPIC for UT3


moonflyer
31st Mar 2005, 09:24 PM
1, Movement

- ut2k4 movement system is really good. but not the greatest!!!
- I think till now the most greatest movement system is the one of CPMA(a mod of q3)
- painkiller has a great movement system which has a bit feeling of CPMA
- I hope EPIC can use the strongpoints of CPMA/Painkiller system for reference when to design the UT3 movement!
- one of the flaws of ut2k4 movement is you can move across a too long distance while making a dodging jump(which is the base move of ut2k4). Thus the maps have to be much larger than those of ut99/quake/painkiller or any other this kind games. As a mapper(especially I've ported lots of quake maps into ut2k4) I am fully convinced of this point. THIS IS THE MAIN REASON WHY UT2K4 LOSTS A FACE TO FACE FIGHTING FEELING!!!
- And because of the huge scale of the maps and long distance between 2 players. UT2K4 is a game based on shooting skills mostly other than tactics and strategy!!!
- I suggest to reduce the distance a dodging jump can reach, but keep the dodging jump!
- I suggest to make it possible to do a double jump + wall dodge + one more jump. This is a bit far than a dodging jump of ut2k4, and could be a compensation to the new powerless dodging jump. But it is a bit difficult than dodging jump thus it won't be a base move
- I suggest to add another base move: Sprint.
- The mechanism is: press a direction key and hold it, then press the space key and hold it(if you don't hold the space key, just make a simple jump)for more than 0.5 second and you begin to sprint.
- The sprint is actually a very fast rush/run. It can looks pretty cool with the help of good animations(won't like the funny jumping monkey style of the dodging jump).
- The sprint is not like those of doom3/hl2/farcry. This spring of ut3 is supposed to be more reliable and easy to use without damn limit
- There is a acceleration of the sprint!!! The initial speed is the same as a normal run. The speed grows up soon if you keep sprinting. and the climax speed is a double of a normal run
- Forgive my foolish idea:P Anyway, the tenet I think is to bring back the face 2 face feeling, while still have the fast paced style. And I hope the mappers won't have to make huge map as they ever made for ut2k4

2, Collision and flow of the maps

- I seriously hope EPIC pay even more attention to the collision problems while mapping for UT3
- A competitive FPS game won't be really great if it can't provide really smooth flow of the maps!!!
- Some of the UT2K4 official maps are not good at this point

3, Make every weapon useful(not just powerful)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- one of the biggest flaw of ut2k3,2k4 is not every weapon as useful as those of ut99
- If you can't make a weapon really useful, plz don't include it!!!!
- I hope EPIC can bring back the hammer!!! the hammer of ut2k4 is really a shield other than a hammer
- The shield gun is ok, but I have a serious yearning for the damn cool hammer of ut99. I mean to make it useful. The hammer became useless mostly because the crazy movement system of ut2k4. It's much harder to hit the enemy with the hammer in ut2k4. So i think the hammer need an adaption
- My suggest is: When triggered, the hammer can spout a shock wave of air(visible gas effects) and pound in the face of your enemy even he is not very close to you. There is an power attenuation radius. As long as the hostile is inside the radius and being aimed at, he can be hurted or even blown away!!!
- The use of the new hammer:
a) blow away those wanna get close to you and kill you with flak canno or link
b) interrupt the movement of a jumpping in the air guy
c) when close enough, you can tear up the guy even he is having full hp and shield

I hope UT3 can bring back the resplendence of UT1

O.S.T
4th Apr 2005, 04:25 PM
malcom is out, bring back the nali cow! :mad:

nDru
4th Apr 2005, 11:25 PM
Map flow and scale was demolished with the advent of dodge-jumping in my opinion, and would be the first thing I'd like to see go. I want the smaller "in your face" type maps back.

NiteX
5th Apr 2005, 01:26 PM
No sprint key, sprint is very unlike UT. Even if itís not like HL2's sprint I really, really hate MP games with any kind of sprint. It just makes the movement feel so cheap. The sprint crap is one of the reasons I donít like HL2 multi. Sprint could be the worst thing they could do to UT3.

-AEnubis-
5th Apr 2005, 02:34 PM
Yeah, UT's movement was just fine. Even if they keep the doube jump, just disable it during a dodge, and it's good.

What is it about the dodge that get's no respect from Q3A people?

Spirnt :tdown:

Agreed: Not UT's style.

moonflyer
6th Apr 2005, 06:07 AM
:lol:
ok, i agree sprint is not of ut style, that's no problem for me if there will be any sprint or not. what i really wanna suggest is to make the movement more
coherent and fluent and give player more control of the speed and distance!

maybe sprint is really a bad idea,lol, i have a new idea:
- make a enhanced dodge/dodging jump system!
- you can control the distance of a dodge or a dodging jump!
- the faster you double click a move key, the further a dodge can reach! (the more powerful a dodge is), thus the further a dodging jump can reach
- the max distance of a new dodging jump is a little bigger than a dodging jump of ut2k4, while normally it's a bit difficult to produce a dodging jump further than 80-90% of a ut2k4 dodging jump
- and the interval of two dodges is shoter than 2 dodging jumps or 1 dodge and 1 dodging jump. that means the interval of two dodges is shoter than any other kinds of jumps, thus player can be encouraged to use normal dodge in some cases(in ut2k4, normal dodge is a bit useless).

yes, i definitely agree that any changes should be kept on the track of UT style! sorry for my idiot idea of sprint

Mr.Magnetichead
6th Apr 2005, 06:46 AM
Those aren't suggestions. They're just opinions that well out of your mouth.

BooGiTyBoY
6th Apr 2005, 06:59 AM
Sprint would be usless in DM and would totally fubar the game flow of ctf. The only reason I could see to include it is for the larger gametypes like ONS and the new Conquest.. but that's what vehicles are for.

Far as movement goes, I agree the movement in 2k4 can really space you out a lot and also makes the game very hitscan heavy. I wouldn't exactly say that CPMA/Painkiller has a good movement system cuz' of the HUGE amount of bugs it produces. COming from a trickjumper, the majority of the jumps you can do in 2k4 you can do because of the actual weapon's properties and such, not a "bug" in the coding of the game which is a lot of what Q3-style movement is. As much as I'd like to have some fun with it, we do NOT need overbouncing and circle-jumping in the next UT. ;)

As for the level design,Quake-style maps RULE!!! They just rule. No stoopid decorations in the "way." There's not one map I have in my quake3 folder that I couldn't run through backward and seriously get hung up on something including doorways. 2k4 maps are a little different story....
I'd love to see a more quake-style approach to the new UT's map designs. No I dont mean I want them all to be brown and evil looking, but easy to navigate so you can concentrate more on where your opponent is going than what you are gonna get stuck on next.
(I also love the fact that with all the Q3vs.UT BS that used to go on... the most popular DM maps to this day are somewhat quake-ish. Grendelkeep, Campgrounds (an actual q3 map), Goose2k4.... and the pros 2k4 players will still refer to it as "gayke" BWHAHAHHA)

Far as weapons go... what exactly is in 2k4 that doesn't have a use? I have a weapon hotkey set for every weapon except the assault rifle, and that's only cuz' I ran out of comfortable to reach keys. Every gun has it's use in this game. I'd suggest you practice with them more before making a comment like that. Play some rocketeer or a mod which starts you with every weapon, and see how many players stick to just one or two. I think you're getting hung-up on the notion that this game is all shock/LG/rox.

L0cky
6th Apr 2005, 07:03 AM
I agree with most of what moonflyer is saying about the movement, I always thought it'd be good to see ut with acceleration/air control. Unfortunately it's not going to happen because a) It's not really UT, and b) it's not friendly to newer players, which is something Epic are trying to achieve.

Imagine a new player joining only to see people whizzing about twice as fast as in ut2004? =0

Though I'd really like to see this as a mod, maybe as part of something like UTComp.

L0cky
6th Apr 2005, 07:29 AM
As for the level design,Quake-style maps RULE!!!
That's probably because the whole notion of what makes a good DM map evolved in Quake 1/2. Many mappers started out in UT without any sense of history (standing on the shoulders of giants as Einstein would say), but after a while Quake mappers started workin with UED with good results, non Quake mappers pick up their vibe and we end up with some pretty good maps. I think it's interesting to note that the best DM maps seem to be outsourced (or come from DE rather than Epic), I wouldn't be surprised if some of the DE mappers were old Quake mappers.

Far as weapons go... what exactly is in 2k4 that doesn't have a use?That's the reason I think fast weapon switching should be in. Every weapon has a situation/use that's often passed up because of the switch time. If only there was some way of balancing fast weapon switch.

moonflyer
7th Apr 2005, 04:26 AM
I agree with most of what moonflyer is saying about the movement, I always thought it'd be good to see ut with acceleration/air control. Unfortunately it's not going to happen because a) It's not really UT, and b) it's not friendly to newer players, which is something Epic are trying to achieve.

Imagine a new player joining only to see people whizzing about twice as fast as in ut2004? =0

Though I'd really like to see this as a mod, maybe as part of something like UTComp.

- for old ut99 fans, dodging jump was a bit of non ut style, but we finally accept it, don't we? ;) and also the vehicle system, it was really inspired by halo IMHO!!! and to be honest, i don't like the fact that ut becomes a vehicle based game in a degree, but i accept it coz i think it's funny to play ons
so i won't be against any improvement to the movement system as long as it's really funny and good to the gameplay

- don't worry the movement will become harder to fresh player, i suggest to reduce the normal speed of the movement of ut3 to about 85% of ut2k4, and the experienced player can improve his speed to about 90% or a bit more, but won't be too faster than normal speed
Give player more control of his movement is not simply equal to increase the gap between the experienced player and the newbie



Far as weapons go... what exactly is in 2k4 that doesn't have a use? I have a weapon hotkey set for every weapon except the assault rifle, and that's only cuz' I ran out of comfortable to reach keys. Every gun has it's use in this game. I'd suggest you practice with them more before making a comment like that. Play some rocketeer or a mod which starts you with every weapon, and see how many players stick to just one or two. I think you're getting hung-up on the notion that this game is all shock/LG/rox.

i have hotkey set for every weapon too :D and i agree every gun has its value in specific cases



As for the level design,Quake-style maps RULE!!! They just rule. No stoopid decorations in the "way." There's not one map I have in my quake3 folder that I couldn't run through backward and seriously get hung up on something including doorways. 2k4 maps are a little different story....
I'd love to see a more quake-style approach to the new UT's map designs. No I dont mean I want them all to be brown and evil looking, but easy to navigate so you can concentrate more on where your opponent is going than what you are gonna get stuck on next.
(I also love the fact that with all the Q3vs.UT BS that used to go on... the most popular DM maps to this day are somewhat quake-ish. Grendelkeep, Campgrounds (an actual q3 map), Goose2k4.... and the pros 2k4 players will still refer to it as "gayke" BWHAHAHHA)



- as i know, in fact it's not just quake-style maps rule, but the gameplay going first rule. I am trying to make maps not filled with "stoopid decorations". and i believe the ut2k4 mappers definitely can make the same great ut-style maps as those famous quake-style maps.

iron12
10th Apr 2005, 07:25 AM
Map flow and scale was demolished with the advent of dodge-jumping in my opinion, and would be the first thing I'd like to see go. I want the smaller "in your face" type maps back.

I kind of agree with that.

I hope they lean toward the UT99 movement.

The players could be big again and you could have small maps again.

Like you say, more in your face. :)