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Nosnos
31st Mar 2005, 02:06 PM
Gametypes/mutators
- DM/TDM, CTF, Onslaught and Conquest sounds like a good thing. You did have way to many gametypes in UT2004.
- Dont add to many mutators, add them with bonuspacks or something since they mostly just break the community apart into tiny tiny pieces.
- Please think about the oldschool players. We all realise you need Conquest to drawn in new players but once they are hooked on the game they are gonna see DM/TDM and CTF for what they really are, the gem of the UT-series ^^
- Don't let the inclusion of Conquest change the UT into something that is just UT by name and not by feel and gameplay

Weapons
- Think long and hard about new weapons. If you are going to include a new weapon dont do it because it's "cool" or just for the sake of adding something new, do it because it will be a useful and balanced addition.
- If you are removing the LG (which I personally find stupid) then make sure to replace it with a sniperrifle that feels like the UT99-rifle (sound!!) but is just as powerful as the LG in UT2004 (same damage same rof)
- The shockrifle is already one of the most powerful weapons in the game thanks to the combo, making it a killer long and closedistance weapon is just overkill. Think about reducing damage to about 30 and lower it's rof so that it's not as easy to kill a newly spawned player.
- The shieldgun is a great idea and it works great for TDM but it's just to "powerful" in 1on1. If you keep it then think about removing the regeneration so that it is useful for newly spawned players but can't be abused by a dominating player.

Movement
- Keep the UT2004-movement, the movement isn't the problem. There really is no good reason need to dumb things down and the lack of "in your face" action is because of the maps and weaponbalance (more close quarter maps like rankin/goose and a much weaker shockrifle would)

Maps
- Less gimick maps more maps that are gonna be played over and over again. We all know you can make killer maps since you have made Rankin, Antalus, Ironic, Corrugation, Roughinery, etc. You don't need the gimick maps to sell the game, they are just taking up space. This is a game that is supposed to be played not just to look at.
- Gameplay > Eyecandy. This one is obvious, no the maps doesnt have to look ugly but they do need to get the gameplay sorted first then they can get pimped.

Graphics
- Not concerned about this but be sure to make the game so that you can tweak it like you could with UT2003/UT2004. No need to make it look like lego though ^^

Music/Sound
- Bring back the music feel from UT99. UT99 had to me a bit of a trance feel in terms of music compared to the more rock (quake) feel of UT2003/UT2004.
- Soundeffects... just make the weapons sound powerful, and please fix it so that you can actually use sound to track down players again.

Settings Client/Server
- When doing skins this time around make sure you got good teamskins and that you as a player can decide what color the opposing team should have. It shouldn't matter if they are on the red or blue team. That way we wont have to use brightskins "cheats".
- Hitsounds, some like it some dont just make it a clientside setting it doesnt affect the game at all.
- Warmup, serverside setting ofc. Should be easy to implement but highly appreciated by everyone who plays organised matches.
- Force default model, same as with hitsounds, make it clientside so if people like it they can use it without the need to go on an editing spree in the ini.

Things to help people get into the game
- Tutorials!!! UT2003/UT2004 was very complex games in terms of weapons and movement, especially considering that most people had been playing CS and the likes for a long time. A new player shouldnt be allowed to play online before having gone through the movement (show all moves) and weapons tutorial as well as explanations of gametyps ofc.

"Media"-things
- Working UTV with a tab in the serverbrowser. For more advanced broadcast perhaps a way for the broadcaster to set up "cameras" at different locations so he can switch to different areas quickly and easy.
- Demorecording (with weapons showing please ^^)
- Demoplayback with features like "goto", "fastforward", "pause" and if it is possible "rewind".
- The communitytab in UT2004 is a great idea but it's hardly used imo. Use it to promote tourneys and things like that.

So what do you people think? would my suggestions (if implemented) make the new UT better or worse? :)

.:42:.
31st Mar 2005, 02:40 PM
I think u have great ideas for the next UT :)

Slainchild
31st Mar 2005, 03:21 PM
What you have said, would basically perfect UT2004.

So yeah, very good suggestions. ;)

W0RF
31st Mar 2005, 03:21 PM
One thing I'd like to see is a slight separation between the shock knockback time and the rof. Just tweaking the knockback down a tiny bit, and increasing the rof by even 0.1 seconds would be enough to stop the ridiculous cycle of shock rifle lockdown.

GIdenJoe
31st Mar 2005, 03:28 PM
About that community tab thing.

News and ownage maps should be managed by someone else than cliffyb :p

Perhaps someone that dedicates himself to this or a group of ppl. So that stuff actually get's used to good end.

b0rnAga1n
31st Mar 2005, 03:31 PM
shock is perfect, for CTF at least. changing shock at all would ruin it.

AMmayhem
31st Mar 2005, 03:44 PM
- Please think about the oldschool players.

- Keep the UT2004-movement, the movement isn't the problem.

Am I the only one who notices a contradiction here?

Selerox
31st Mar 2005, 03:56 PM
Agree completely :tup:

By the way, are you sure you din't read my thread (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=152841) which was along similar lines? ;)

SanitysEdge
31st Mar 2005, 04:02 PM
Am I the only one who notices a contradiction here?
Nope, I see them too.
"Perfecting" UT2004, Porting it to UE3, and adding a gametype wont make me like UT2004 any more than I already do.

Taleweaver
31st Mar 2005, 04:10 PM
Agreed for about 90% :tup: A couple not-agrees, though...
- Keep the UT2004-movement, the movement isn't the problem. There really is no good reason need to dumb things down and the lack of "in your face" action is because of the maps and weaponbalance (more close quarter maps like rankin/goose and a much weaker shockrifle would)
I'd say: get rid of the doublejump, dodgejump and walldodgejump (keep the dodge & walldodge). UT2004 levels are scaled too big, just because of this feature. I also think that these fast movements are a good cause of the lack of "in your face" action (might be wrong on this).

- Gameplay > Eyecandy. This one is obvious, no the maps doesnt have to look ugly but they do need to get the gameplay sorted first then they can get pimped.
completely agree, but Epic knows just as well as any other company that many people often decide to buy a game based on cool looking screenshots rather than the vague argument of "good gameplay". I also think there will always be a Thorns-audience: people that want to cram as much players in the smallest map possible. That's why I prefer one or two maps that combine these: small and open (Gael-like) with excessive eyecandy for marketing purpose. All other maps should have gameplay as main goal.

fresh&minty
31st Mar 2005, 06:08 PM
I agree with what you said...

However EPIC isn't about the community, or making a good game... that doesn't make money. However selling spiffy graphics, with a ton of hype, on a dumbed down game does. I think they know this.

The biggest mistake epic made in 2k4, was noobing up the entire game for the sake of noobslaught. The weapon balance, swap out rate, amo counts... were all noobed up to make ONS more fun. I honestly hope epic looks into the chance of tweaking movement/weapons per gametype.

1337
31st Mar 2005, 07:27 PM
I agree with most of what Nosnos said. But I think graphics and audio make a big difference when learning to love a game. I'm a big fan of moving combos and "double combos" and such so I'll be sad if that part of the game dies. In the end, it's not really going to feel the same as the game before, and inorder to create a successful game they'll have to take risks.

I like the idea of closer combat. I also like the feeling of being knocked around and pushing the opponent around the map with projectile weapons and doing midair kills and such. I also enjoy being rewarded for having decent hitscan. Maybe increased damage and decreased rate of fire?

I personally enjoy shock rifle as more of a close combat weapon. I'd prefer that they nerfed it's effeciency at ranged combat and enhanced it's closeranged applications.

I think force character should not be default. I think the character animations should be less ridiculous, well maybe just a few are ridiculous. Conquest game mode will bring a lot of new blood in.

In order to satisfy the people that want to show off, like myself, they'll have to allow capable people to use weapons in a more efficent or cooler way then a noob. For instance add in something that takes a little practice and "sweat" like the moving combos or air rox did in ut2k4. You have to give people something to make a frag movie about. In the end if it isn't about TDM and only about making Conquest mode successful I'll still buy the game, because Conquest looks promising.

INIQUITOUS
31st Mar 2005, 07:44 PM
am i the only person that thinks it sucks that thre taking away certain weapons and changing others and even worse,not taking sum dumb weapons out?? first ,its not so in ur face because the weapons in ut2003/4 are so powerful, you can kill sum1 with one shot or 2 seconds of fire with almost everygun, in the original it took longer,which was better. doent it suck that there keeping the bio rifle (worse weapon ever) and getting rid of the machine gun (cant think of its name!! omg). i cant belive thre gonna have a weapon that does the work for the flak cannon,rocket launcher,bio rifle and one other all in one, it would b like carrying around a weapons locker! lol that guns gonna b 3 times the size of the player. i do thin kits cool that there changing the scorpion and the goliath to better things, and the new game type sounds cool but they shouldnt get rid of assault!!!!!! dont they know about the "trials" servers etc... plus i love assault even tho i dont play it that much anymore, im more into jailbreak now. and dont get rid of bombing run! its a great idea and a great team game! it didnt even get a chance *sob* , but i do agree with ditching domination, that just plain sucked standing there for hours doing nothing really. also what they need is like a hundred more new skins really cool and popular ones included like droid,yoda,bender,martian etc... because arent you all sick and tired of looking at Malcolm (or is it Jakob? they look the same to me) all the time, stupid default skin sucks the most, its the worse skin ever!!!! well there sum of my thoughts, but u know there not gonna listen to any of us and they know we are gonna buy it stil anyway so why bother.

Sir_Brizz
31st Mar 2005, 08:11 PM
Am I the only person that can't stand it when there is a post without any punctuation, grammar, or PARAGRAPHING!?

tl;dr.

nick89
31st Mar 2005, 08:17 PM
LIghtning Gun = Good, Sniper Rifle = megaultrabad
I agree that options such as hitsounds brightskins should be options in the game, but have them turned off by deafult.

Movement:
Keep it all except possibly Dodge-Jumps.

Kantham
31st Mar 2005, 08:20 PM
Am I the only person that can't stand it when there is a post without any punctuation, grammar, or PARAGRAPHING!?

tl;dr.


no u are no6 a;on3

INIQUITOUS
31st Mar 2005, 08:27 PM
oooh lets all rite corektley and bee like robots and not haf ne individualiT, beter yet lets all wite a noval eech and join a buk club!

Kantham
31st Mar 2005, 08:45 PM
Birthday:
September 8th, 1983

you are 21 years old?

Sijik
31st Mar 2005, 09:32 PM
oooh lets all rite corektley and bee like robots and not haf ne individualiT, beter yet lets all wite a noval eech and join a buk club!
It's not a matter of being un-original or trying to suppress individualism, it's a matter of making sure our message is clear and our thoughts are organized.
Also, writing such a reactionary post, with no rational justifications present and in their stead undefended opinions and juvenile phrasing will automatically put most of the readers and posters here off to your posts and consequently to you, as well.
Finally, good grammar, spelling, sentence structure, puntuation, etc. is done largely out of respect for the fellow posters and forum members. If you do not wish to be respectful, intelligent, courteous and useful in your input, then please refrain from posting, as you will only engender distaste for yourself.

And on a side note, if the only way you can express your individuality is by writing on the level of some ill-educated 12 year-old brat, then that is one sad situation you're in.

INIQUITOUS
31st Mar 2005, 09:57 PM
hello sijik-things im gonna point out now about what ive said to people and how i say things, first i am intelligent, my sense humor is obviously way too high-brow for the likes of you, i am courteous, i say hello and thank you etc..this particular topic is about peoples thoughts about what epic should think about on their next ut game,so anyones input on this topic doesnt have to be useful (they are you thoughts, they dont have to be useful to you personally). i find alot of crap on nearly every topic but i dont say anything, i just ignore it or laugh.im only respectful to people that are inturn respectful to me.and if you notice i even say thankyou to people have said nasty things about me,because they helped even tho it was not good "input".i take it,its ok for you and a few other people to judge me and others by "juvinile phrasing" when infact me and the others were not the first to say things stupid and pointless and if they were not pointless, they were said in an unconstructive way. Good gramma,spelling ,"structure" etc.. did you or anyone else ever stop and think to ask if i was dyslexic or dysbraxic---no you did not. i guess thats the kind of person you are. and by the way i spotted a spelling mistake in your post. are you dyslexic? it took me ages to chek this and i know theres loads of mistakes but i cant help it. can u? thanks for your "input", hope you appreciate mine.:)

Nosnos
31st Mar 2005, 10:53 PM
Am I the only one who notices a contradiction here?

By oldschool I dont just mean UT99 players but players who prefer the old gametypes like DM/CTF.

And about the movement forcing the maps to be overscaled... That might be true in some cases but good UT2004 doesnt have to be overscaled in order to be good... look at the good 1on1-maps for example (Ironic, Roughinery, Rankin) They arent overscaled but they are still awesome for UT2004's movement. A lot of maps are overscaled though but that is because (I think) it's easier to make a map "playable" by making it overscaled, that way you are able to do all the fancy moves and people wont complain about the map being to cramped and about getting stuck everywhere... Making a tight map that still works in terms of movement will probably take a lot longer but it is possible...

But what if they "nerfed" the movement instead of removing it? Perhaps making it so that the jump on a dodgejump doesnt increase your distance by quite as much or that the second jump on a doublejump only takes you slightly higher than a normal jump... I personally like to have a lot of options and if they remove the dodgejump completly you wont be able to do the fancy slides on steep hills, walls and planks that we all know and love ^^

Ictus
31st Mar 2005, 11:49 PM
Remember, that some of us working on Envy actually are Oldskool UT players, and we definitely understand the need for maps to have gameplay rather than gimmicks.

And we do care about making a good game that will please the community. I spend many hours each week talking to people from the community and playing community levels on different servers, to see how people play the game and to know what people like, in both UT99 and UT2004. Coming from the community myself I know exactly how important it is.

And everybody at Epic agrees that UT200x maps are overscaled, and we are doing to do our best to address this. As a level designer it is one of my main goals to reestablish the proper scale.

Nosnos
1st Apr 2005, 12:04 AM
Remember, that some of us working on Envy actually are Oldskool UT players, and we definitely understand the need for maps to have gameplay rather than gimmicks.

And we do care about making a good game that will please the community. I spend many hours each week talking to people from the community and playing community levels on different servers, to see how people play the game and to know what people like, in both UT99 and UT2004. Coming from the community myself I know exactly how important it is.

And everybody at Epic agrees that UT200x maps are overscaled, and we are doing to do our best to address this. As a level designer it is one of my main goals to reestablish the proper scale.

Well then you just keep doing what you are doing and we should be getting a great game ^^

Sijik
1st Apr 2005, 12:08 PM
hello sijik-things im gonna point out now about what ive said to people and how i say things, first i am intelligent, my sense humor is obviously way too high-brow for the likes of you, i am courteous, i say hello and thank you etc..this particular topic is about peoples thoughts about what epic should think about on their next ut game,so anyones input on this topic doesnt have to be useful (they are you thoughts, they dont have to be useful to you personally). i find alot of crap on nearly every topic but i dont say anything, i just ignore it or laugh.im only respectful to people that are inturn respectful to me.and if you notice i even say thankyou to people have said nasty things about me,because they helped even tho it was not good "input".i take it,its ok for you and a few other people to judge me and others by "juvinile phrasing" when infact me and the others were not the first to say things stupid and pointless and if they were not pointless, they were said in an unconstructive way. Good gramma,spelling ,"structure" etc.. did you or anyone else ever stop and think to ask if i was dyslexic or dysbraxic---no you did not. i guess thats the kind of person you are. and by the way i spotted a spelling mistake in your post. are you dyslexic? it took me ages to chek this and i know theres loads of mistakes but i cant help it. can u? thanks for your "input", hope you appreciate mine.:)

I was referring more to your second post than your first, and to be honest, it wasn't SO much trying to be mean as it was just trying to point out that it's courteous to spell correctly, and the humor in spelling poorly went out a long time ago (the only remnant of it we have is OK<--oll korrekt, from, what like the 20's? Let it die and if you want us to believe you're intelligent, don't tell us, show us.

Mr.Magnetichead
1st Apr 2005, 12:24 PM
If you want it to be so much like UT2004 JUST STICK TO PLAYING UT2004!

Envy is a new game, it's moving away from the stupid sport angle and into the new territory of WAR.

UnrealGrrl
1st Apr 2005, 12:35 PM
well hopefully its not a War game... wargames are boring and not what UT is about... go play battefield or something unfun like that if you want to play wargames.

just because its bigger doesnt mean its gonna be a wargame and i really hope that aint the direction we are heading... in your face tournament is what made UT popular and why diehards are still hanging around waiting for The Tournament to be refreshed and remade...

if Epic can pull of what they are talking: making the game play and feel more like original UT while at the same time updating and upgrading it in places then i think UT diehards, casual and competitive players will all be happier :)

Mr.Magnetichead
1st Apr 2005, 12:36 PM
I think you misinterprated me when I said war.

Symbolikal
1st Apr 2005, 12:46 PM
hello sijik-things im gonna point out now about what ive said to people and how i say things, first i am intelligent, my sense humor is obviously way too high-brow for the likes of you, i am courteous, i say hello and thank you etc..this particular topic is about peoples thoughts about what epic should think about on their next ut game,so anyones input on this topic doesnt have to be useful (they are you thoughts, they dont have to be useful to you personally). i find alot of crap on nearly every topic but i dont say anything, i just ignore it or laugh.im only respectful to people that are inturn respectful to me.and if you notice i even say thankyou to people have said nasty things about me,because they helped even tho it was not good "input".i take it,its ok for you and a few other people to judge me and others by "juvinile phrasing" when infact me and the others were not the first to say things stupid and pointless and if they were not pointless, they were said in an unconstructive way. Good gramma,spelling ,"structure" etc.. did you or anyone else ever stop and think to ask if i was dyslexic or dysbraxic---no you did not. i guess thats the kind of person you are. and by the way i spotted a spelling mistake in your post. are you dyslexic? it took me ages to chek this and i know theres loads of mistakes but i cant help it. can u? thanks for your "input", hope you appreciate mine.:)

It's spelt dyspraxic, and I am thank you very much. It doesn't affect my spelling, it affects my handwriting. Your disregard for the English language can offend, and it just did. I don't think you are dyspraxic, if you were, you would spell it correctly.
If you were either, you also wouldn't have a problem with structure.
That's just offensive to generalise over one mistake. Especially Kantham (Hi :-)) because he doesn't use English as a first language.
Rant over.

INIQUITOUS
1st Apr 2005, 01:05 PM
being dyslexic or dyspraxic can affect many different things in you gramma,spelling etc...for example if your dyslexic it can make you put the letter 'e' where the letter 't' should go and vice versa with every letter in the alphabet, that is just one example of what being dyslexic can do, its different for every1 who is, so dont presume that just because your version of it makes you do somthing so every1 else with it must have the same problem. also a friend of mine is both and he cant even spell his own name almost, but hes one of the cleverest people i know. so dont YOU generalise, thank you, and btw ive never said anything bad to kantham. if hes taken anything the wrong way then i apologize.

Kantham
1st Apr 2005, 01:08 PM
His english is terrible , and some of his comment are offencing over the jailbreak forums. Yes my native language is not english , it's french .I've learned english myself here and on other forums.You canot immagine how i learned it fast. Sometimes , ppl have some serious difficulties to read it. At least i don't use translator

''Otherwise his would resemble has his''

INQUITOUS , i don't hate you . I just think you start too many threads for simple stuff about the editor , and SOMME of your post are Non-''Understable'<--- A word?

'

Sir_Brizz
1st Apr 2005, 01:11 PM
BUT EVEN THEY CAN FIND THE ENTER KEY.

Nosnos
1st Apr 2005, 01:31 PM
If you want it to be so much like UT2004 JUST STICK TO PLAYING UT2004!

Envy is a new game, it's moving away from the stupid sport angle and into the new territory of WAR.

What sport angle? there is nothing about UT2004 that has anything to do with sports imo... Sure it's a tournament but it was a tournament in UT as well... And it's kind of fun to get the "If you want it to be so much like UT2004 JUST STICK TO PLAYING UT2004!" argument as you instantly get a flashback from the time before UT2003 was released but back then it was "If you want it to be so much like UT JUST STICK TO PLAYING UT!"... But guess way to many people stuck with playing UT ^^

I don't want the game to be exactly like UT2004, I want the game to improve but at the same time I don't want the game to lose the things that makes it UT (weapons, movement, etc). If they change those basics things they should not call it UT anymore imo...

Mr.Magnetichead
1st Apr 2005, 02:03 PM
You must be blind deaf and dumb to miss the sports angle of ut 2003/4.

Nosnos
1st Apr 2005, 02:12 PM
Not really, what is it that makes is so sporty? the announcers? the intro? the singleplayer campaign? All I care about is the gameplay really and I don't see much of a sports angle when it comes to the gameplay tbh...

INIQUITOUS
1st Apr 2005, 02:15 PM
His english is terrible , and some of his comment are offencing over the jailbreak forums. Yes my native language is not english , it's french .I've learned english myself here and on other forums.You canot immagine how i learned it fast. Sometimes , ppl have some serious difficulties to read it. At least i don't use translator

''Otherwise his would resemble has his''

INQUITOUS , i don't hate you . I just think you start too many threads for simple stuff about the editor , and SOMME of your post are Non-''Understable'<--- A word?

'
thanks, wel ive had help with every post ive made except one, the loading screen one, is that one not understandable? yeah i might of started loads of threads but at the end of the day if it helped me and it helps others then its cool right.

Sijik
1st Apr 2005, 02:25 PM
Not really, what is it that makes is so sporty? the announcers? the intro? the singleplayer campaign? All I care about is the gameplay really and I don't see much of a sports angle when it comes to the gameplay tbh...

I get the sporty feeling from the visual stlization of the game, as well as the exaggerated movement abilities. It's a combination of the announcers, the outfits (especially Divisor) the design of the weapons, thr bright colors, stuff like that, and the 2k3 intro certainly helped. Also, the design of the full logo almost screams of EA. Besides, it's put forth as an intergalactic bloodsport anyway, so in being a sport itself it can't help but be sporty. I guess the biggest element is how everything is designed for looks and showmanship, from the taunts to even the animations (which were changed from 2k3's more tactical style to 2k4's looser, more glasditorial style.) Compared to the pace and look of, say, Halo DM it strikes me as quite sporty through and through.

UnrealGrrl
1st Apr 2005, 02:26 PM
I think you misinterprated me when I said war.

probably did - ive been known to misinterpret before!

W0RF
1st Apr 2005, 02:31 PM
Not really, what is it that makes is so sporty? the announcers? the intro? the singleplayer campaign? All I care about is the gameplay really and I don't see much of a sports angle when it comes to the gameplay tbh...
Schmalz explained that the sequel's name (which was changed from the original, tentative title "Unreal Tournament 2") is intended to sound more like a sports game; after all, hard-core fans of Unreal Tournament practically consider playing the game competitively to be a sport. In addition, the name is intended to reflect Digital Extremes' commitment to continuing to support the game after release.
Interview with Mark Rein (http://www.apple.com/games/articles/2003/05/unreal2003/)
“[The sports feel] is why we put the ‘2003’ in the name,” Rein explains, referring to the common practice of placing the year in the names of most sports games, which see new versions annually (such as NASCAR Racing Season 2003). “I don’t know if we’ll do a new game every year, but we love the idea of the game evolving every year, with new stadiums and new weapons.”
nvidia describes UT2003 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/games_ut2k3.html)
Unreal Tournament 2003 is a lightning-fast, no-holds-barred sport of the future, where warriors face off like the Gladiators of ancient Rome to determine the ultimate combatant. Super human reflexes, awesome weapons and the skill to use them effectively are what separate the good from the bad, the living from the dead, the victor from vanquished.
Cliff speaks on sport theme in UT2004 (http://www.apple.com/games/articles/2004/03/unreal2004/)
“Don’t read too much into the sports angle,” says Cliff Bleszinski, lead designer at Epic Games. “The sports theme works both for Unreal Tournament and against it,” he notes. “Yes, this is a bloodsport, and there is a tournament, but it’s not the WWE. We must pick and choose what we take from the sports side very carefully.”
UT2003 was specifically promoted as being more "sporty", and UT2004 backed away from it a bit but kept a lot of the same feel. Envy seems to be moving completely away from it.

carmatic
1st Apr 2005, 02:44 PM
Things to help people get into the game
- Tutorials!!! UT2003/UT2004 was very complex games in terms of weapons and movement, especially considering that most people had been playing CS and the likes for a long time

didnt they make those 'trial' AS maps for this reason or something? like you walljump, or doublejump gaps, etc etc to get to your objectives....

Mr.Magnetichead
1st Apr 2005, 02:58 PM
probably did - ive been known to misinterpret before!

It's probably the menopause.

Nosnos
1st Apr 2005, 03:41 PM
Wasn't it a "sport" in UT as well? but anyways I could care less what they call it, how it looks and how it is described it's all about the gameplay. So if everyone seem to care more about how the game is presented compared to how it plays then by all means change it ^^

Fun to be called a noob btw, brings back sweet memories :)

JaFO
2nd Apr 2005, 09:48 AM
Time for my 2 cents.

Gametypes/mutators
- DM/TDM, CTF, Onslaught and Conquest
Sounds like a good thing, but I fear that the quality & quantity of maps for CTF will suffer at the expense of ONS / Conquest.
UT2kx had (IMHO) too many DM/TDM-maps and too few maps for the rest of the gametypes. One can only hope that the removal of BR & DDOM means we get more maps for CTF.


- Dont add to many mutators, add them with bonuspacks or something since they mostly just break the community apart into tiny tiny pieces.

mutators never broke the community ... players that were scared of having to adapt to mutated gametypes did.


- Please think about the oldschool players. We all realise you need Conquest to drawn in new players but once they are hooked on the game they are gonna see DM/TDM and CTF for what they really are, the gem of the UT-series ^^

I say : don't think about 'oldschool' players. They've already got their favourite games (UT99, UT2kx, Quake ... ).
I'd even say that they should *emphasize* that the 'classic' gametypes are mere traininggrounds for the spectacle that is 'Conquest'.
Onslaught already proves that a good new gametype can draw players and keep them.

Weapons
So far Epic has done a pretty terrific job whenever new weapons were introduced. I just hope they try to make them feel like true Unreal-style weapons. That's why I like the minigun (boring, not really Unreal) being replaced by the Stinger (typically Unreal). The net-result may be identical, but the 'feel' of the weapon is what makes this game.
Oh ... and please bring back the Ripper-gun in some form. It was pure bloody goodness ;)

Movement
The *excessive* use of acrobatics definitely needs to be fixed.
I personally would force them to use 'adrenaline'. A player without 'adrenaline' would simply have reduced distance/speed for those moves.

Maps
I've always liked how UT managed to offer both 'eyecandy' as well as 'arena'-style maps. The 'realistic'/eyecandy maps made you feel you were in a living environment. And the 'arena'-style still managed to look good and convincing enough to be fun.

If Gameplay > Eyecandy then no one would ever play a new game with better graphics. Fact is this new engine is build for eyecandy, so it should be used and not ignored.

Graphics
I hope they can enforce a higher quality and manage to prevent the 'lego-style'-stupidity. It's an engine that can push millions of polygons and it should be doing so as fast as the hardware can handle it.
Perhaps even hardcoded restrictions that stop people with high-powered monstercards from removing "eyecandy" ... (ie : if you want you lego-looks then you got to use a lower-spec card/machine)

Music/Sound
I wish for movie-style dynamic soundtracks.
The game 'Rez' would be the ultra-cool version, but I'd settle for somethig a little less slick ;)
Also allow for custom-maps to feature their own tracks and make sure they're part of the download as well ...

skins
I hope for a better set of skins, especially teamskins should be comparable brightness. No 'brightskins' and definitely not a client/server-side setting for those 'things'. Leave those things to the 'pro'/competitive players/servers, but make sure that ordinary on-line games aren't polluted by this stuff.

user-content
Please make sure custom-models, voices & skins get better support.
Don't turn anyone without the custom-content into a 'Gorge', but allow skinners/modellers to define the fall-back skin/model.
ie : if I don't have a custom-skin for a default model then I still want to see & hear that default-model.

hitsounds
Ditto ... this shouldn't be a pinball-game. The 'hitsounds' should add to the immersion. More painful pain-sounds would be appreciated. ;)
Also the hit-sounds for a model should be part of the voicepack or at least be replaceable without the use of code.

Force default model
Eliminate this 'feature'. It should be a server-side setting that's strictly for 'competive' play.

Tutorials!!!
No more matinee-movies, but true interactive lessons that teach every aspect of the game. Don't stop at showing 'dodges', but show their use.
Take cues from the training-levels in sportsgames like PES and fighting-games like Virtua Fighter 4.

"Media"-things
It would be nice if we had an easy-to-use replay interface.
Levels could have static 'camera'-locations at could be accessed via this interface as well. And there'd definitely could be a few dynamic camera-views that depend on the gametype as well (think of the 'goal'-replay in football-games).
All of these views should be availablel for spectators as well.

custom downloads
Give people more choice when it comes to accepting server-side content.
Let them choose whether they want new custom content and still allow them to play if they don't want them (mutators/maps can't be avoided if you want to play for obvious reasons).
Let them set limits to the size of the downloads or at least restrict size based on the hardware (for example : no download larger than 10 Mb for modem-users).
Instead of telling people they're receiving 'superleet.utx' tell them they're receiving the 'superleet'-skin for the Gorge-model. So less technical info and more userfriendly feedback.

commands for teammates/bots
This interface should definitely be enhanced. Perhaps the context-sensitive interface from 'Brothers in Arms' can be copied. This bit is far more useful for bots as clans & humans can use the voIP-interface, but otoh it can break language-barriers !

Razor_Shadow
2nd Apr 2005, 03:16 PM
Hey nosnos,

You pathetic little whiny bitch,stop going to every forum that discusses ENVY and posting crap about how epic should nerf the shock rifle just because you are lame enough to get respawn killed by it everytime. It takes a LOT of aim and map knowledge to spawn kill someone with shock, shock is a perfectly balanced weapon as it is. There are other ways to avoid someone getting spawn killed by shock or any other weapon, and if epic does nerf the shock because of your gay ass whining Ill be one pointing who they should blame. Im sick of your ****, stfu and get a life kthx.

EDIT: To others reading this thread,this is all that this guy does... he goes to every forum and posts long threads with lists of what should improve in the next game, but all the rest is either irrelevant/has been discussed/everyone agrees. He just puts in the shock rifle crap hoping people wont noticed and just agree with the rest, so that maybe epic would take his stupid suggestion, made out of a selfish revenge against players who keep beating him because they are better than him. Nerfing a weapon wont make you a better player asshat.

Kantham
2nd Apr 2005, 03:30 PM
Hey nosnos,

You pathetic little whiny bitch,stop going to every forum that discusses ENVY and posting crap about how epic should nerf the shock rifle just because you are lame enough to get respawn killed by it everytime. It takes a LOT of aim and map knowledge to spawn kill someone with shock, shock is a perfectly balanced weapon as it is. There are other ways to avoid someone getting spawn killed by shock or any other weapon, and if epic does nerf the shock because of your gay ass whining Ill be one pointing who they should blame. Im sick of your ****, stfu and get a life kthx.

EDIT: To others reading this thread,this is all that this guy does... he goes to every forum and posts long threads with lists of what should improve in the next game, but all the rest is either irrelevant/has been discussed/everyone agrees. He just puts in the shock rifle crap hoping people wont noticed and just agree with the rest, so that maybe epic would take his stupid suggestion, made out of a selfish revenge against players who keep beating him because they are better than him. Nerfing a weapon wont make you a better player asshat.

Not so ''good'' for a first post

You should send him a pm or something , and chill a little.

I guess he just want to share his ideas with the community , if you don't like them , just don't look at his threads.

This thread started alot of discutions.

Edit: BTW , epic will never take his suggestions , we all know this.

hal
2nd Apr 2005, 03:36 PM
Hey nosnos,

You pathetic little whiny bitch,stop going to every forum that discusses ENVY and posting crap about how epic should nerf the shock rifle just because you are lame enough to get respawn killed by it everytime. It takes a LOT of aim and map knowledge to spawn kill someone with shock, shock is a perfectly balanced weapon as it is. There are other ways to avoid someone getting spawn killed by shock or any other weapon, and if epic does nerf the shock because of your gay ass whining Ill be one pointing who they should blame. Im sick of your ****, stfu and get a life kthx.

EDIT: To others reading this thread,this is all that this guy does... he goes to every forum and posts long threads with lists of what should improve in the next game, but all the rest is either irrelevant/has been discussed/everyone agrees. He just puts in the shock rifle crap hoping people wont noticed and just agree with the rest, so that maybe epic would take his stupid suggestion, made out of a selfish revenge against players who keep beating him because they are better than him. Nerfing a weapon wont make you a better player asshat.

You need to chill out. It's one guy posting his opinion. Make a better case instead of attacking him next time.

CyMek
2nd Apr 2005, 04:33 PM
...A bunch of thoughtful, well explained points...


+10 for Jafo :tup:

I can't agree more on most of these points. The only thing that I did notice is that the minigun is in Unreal, it is just not very prevalent.

carmatic
2nd Apr 2005, 04:47 PM
remember how the minigun was kinda the ultimate weapon in the original unreal... as in it was the last weapon you got, and look at how it got nerfed nowadays

O.S.T
2nd Apr 2005, 06:45 PM
because I'm a casual player, I don't have the high gameplay demands like some of you, I play if I want some quick action(the only demand I would have to make it a bit faster and all weapons a bit weaker for longer fights)
I'm sure epic/DE/whoever will make a good gameplay and maplayouts

but I would like to see more good looking human models and skins(it doesn't have to be "omgbigboobs" all the time ;)) and some more ONS-urban themed maps(how bout throwing egyptian style out and making more urban style maps, would be more appealing to not ut players too) and less egyptian and old factory themed maps

Nosnos
3rd Apr 2005, 04:37 AM
Nerfing the shockrifle would actually make me a worse player. I get most of my kills with it, that and LG since I'm an aimwhore ^^. Sorry you have such a problem with my opinions though and that I express them here and on INA, though that was what forums were about, discussing things in a somewhat civilised way...

Radiosity
3rd Apr 2005, 06:46 AM
Am I the only person who actually noticed Ictus's post? Or did everyone just miss it amidst all the pointless flaming?

Thanks Ictus, it's nice to hear from someone actually working on the game that issues being raised here (the Envy forum in general, not just this post) are being addressed :)

JaFO
3rd Apr 2005, 07:17 AM
I've seen it too ... let's hope he passes on some of the issues (*cough* better custom content support, models that have good teamskins instead of the mix of bright & dark *cough*) we'd like to see improved ;)

Radiosity
3rd Apr 2005, 07:44 AM
I'll add my own backing to the custom content things, especially the crappy handling of the current species system. I like to create voicepacks with custom pain and death sounds, and custom gibs too where appropriate, and currently can't really release any of them as they are meant to be played thanks to worries that they won't work online.

Admittedly they seem to work online now after the 3339 patch, but they're still getting people kicked randomly and especially on anti-tcc servers.

carmatic
3rd Apr 2005, 08:52 AM
yeah, what is it like in ut2k4 again? like, all human species (sapphires team, laurens team, malcolms team, hellions, egyptians) share the same pain sounds, juggernauts have their own pain sounds, aliens (gen mo kai and skaarj) share the same pain sounds as mr crow's team, and the robots all have the same pain sounds and the 'female' robots simply has a sped up version of the sounds...

as for the dodge sounds, i think that the juggernauts , humans and mr crows team all use the same, and the robots share the same with the aliens...

and for the voicepacks(taunts etc), hellions, egyptians, laurens team, malcolms team, and sapphire's team all have the same voices, mr crows team have their own taunts, the robots have their own and the aliens share the same one... i think, anyway

compare this with the UT99 sounds where its one voice for every single different character out there, or it feels like it anyway compared to how uniform all the painsounds sound in ut2k3 and 2k4... i wish that everytime i hit someone i hear something different, not just the canned painsounds

NeoNite
3rd Apr 2005, 10:49 AM
compare this with the UT99 sounds where its one voice for every single different character out there

Hmmmmmmm.. well, yeah. Few custom models include custom sounds, though.
F.e. you have this excellent bug model. Unfortunately it uses the standard male2 sounds.

Though I wish it had been thought up by Epic, and included with UT. It's a very nice player model.

Same goes for Jar gual. This one is class. It, fortunately, uses custom sounds.
(a werewolf using male2 sounds would've been stupid).

I never really liked the UT2003 sounds. Some of them were ok.
The voicepacks, eh...just didn't work for me.

UT2004 demo well, (oops, I must be a noob!) pretty much the same thing iirc.
In UT everything sounds clear. In the next installments, imho <-, it just didn't feel right. Voices, or pain-jump(standard) sounds.


Btw: Promote Kantham to forum police :o ;O)

Ignotium
3rd Apr 2005, 02:31 PM
B O D Y
one feature that almost NO GAME HAS is your body, omg is like you were a floating weapon wich insults dead people, and THAT SUCKS, you only can see yourself when pressing F4, and that is no way to play a deathmatch, don't get me wrong, i'm not asking for "Unreal Tournament:Max Payne Strikes Back" no, just the possibility to SEE your own legs and feets. But that isn't just all, when you ride a HellBender or Scorpion you cant see your hands holding the steer or your feets pressing that accelerator, and when you look back to the place you are sit, you get emptyness
not even hl2 has this (i haven't played yet, just saw videos), the only game wich allows you to see your body is the unreleased F.E.A.R

THAT would be the **** and kinda a groundbreaking feature
;)

hal
3rd Apr 2005, 02:45 PM
Remember, that some of us working on Envy actually are Oldskool UT players, and we definitely understand the need for maps to have gameplay rather than gimmicks.

As a level designer it is one of my main goals to reestablish the proper scale.

:tup: :tup:

Thanks for letting us know that. It really is very important as it is one of the main gripes many people had. Pro whining aside.

Zygar
3rd Apr 2005, 02:53 PM
B O D Y
one feature that almost NO GAME HAS is your body, omg is like you were a floating weapon wich insults dead people, and THAT SUCKS, you only can see yourself when pressing F4, and that is no way to play a deathmatch, don't get me wrong, i'm not asking for "Unreal Tournament:Max Payne Strikes Back" no, just the possibility to SEE your own legs and feets. But that isn't just all, when you ride a HellBender or Scorpion you cant see your hands holding the steer or your feets pressing that accelerator, and when you look back to the place you are sit, you get emptyness
not even hl2 has this (i haven't played yet, just saw videos), the only game wich allows you to see your body is the unreleased F.E.A.R

THAT would be the **** and kinda a groundbreaking feature
rite? ;)
No. No it wouldn't. Halo 2 does it, and it's pretty cool, but it wouldn't suit UT. The vehicle thing, maybe... but definitely not the seeing legs and feet while on foot. It'd be annoying if you were practically directly above someone, and you looked down to annilhate them with your flak cannon... and then shot yourself in the foot.

NeoNite
3rd Apr 2005, 03:57 PM
B O D Y
one feature that almost NO GAME HAS is your body, omg is like you were a floating weapon wich insults dead people, and THAT SUCKS, you only can see yourself when pressing F4, and that is no way to play a deathmatch, don't get me wrong, i'm not asking for "Unreal Tournament:Max Payne Strikes Back" no, just the possibility to SEE your own legs and feets.

Tribes2 had this. Well, it was nice but tbh not really important.
Eyecandy...
(What's makes pressing f4 so hard anyway...)






























I'm on to you. You want to take a peek at those breasts eh...
Pervert!

Bang Yr Head
3rd Apr 2005, 04:04 PM
All I want is no double-jump. movement more like UT99, with a screen tilt in the direction your strafing/running. and really cool bullet effects like in Half-Life2. if I get all 3 i'll be really happy :) Oh yes and really cool, good playing maps.

JaFO
3rd Apr 2005, 04:20 PM
I think having the screen act like your head would during any movement would be enough to get rid of at least have those monkeys. I'm sure most would be pretty sick & disoriented after a few saltos and such ;)

Then add a few hit-effects like 'realistic' games tend to have (such as the shellshock-effect in BiA) and it could be fun :D

T2A`
3rd Apr 2005, 05:01 PM
Speaking of hit effects, I'd like it to be easier to know when you're getting shot at. UT2003 had the red screen flash when you were hit and apparently that pissed people off, so they went to the red, hardly-visible arrows on the edges of the screen. It's all fine and dandy when you're hit with lightning or something most of the time, but it can take awhile to realize you're getting pelted with minigun bullets. I, personally, didn't mind the red screen flash so much, because at least I knew when I was getting hit without a doubt whatsoever. Plus, if they're leaning towards a more UT feel, they need to make it look like it hurts when you get shot.

The option to have a first-person view of your ragdoll death complete with your own visible body would be awesome too. Just imagine falling down the Gael pit like that! :D

FireCrack
3rd Apr 2005, 05:15 PM
Yeah, i wasnt whenever you die to have a view from the head gib or head bone in a ragdoll. Sheer awesomness.

The Listener
3rd Apr 2005, 05:25 PM
All I ask is that they keep the Gen Mo'Kai and keep the fast paced and non-serious gameplay that UT2004 has.

TossMonkey
3rd Apr 2005, 05:25 PM
And everybody at Epic agrees that UT200x maps are overscaled, and we are doing to do our best to address this. As a level designer it is one of my main goals to reestablish the proper scale.
I haven't been in this part of BuF for ages but I think I just orgasmed at this post.

Black_Seeds
3rd Apr 2005, 11:17 PM
B O D Y
one feature that almost NO GAME HAS is your body, omg is like you were a floating weapon wich insults dead people, and THAT SUCKS, you only can see yourself when pressing F4, and that is no way to play a deathmatch, don't get me wrong, i'm not asking for "Unreal Tournament:Max Payne Strikes Back" no, just the possibility to SEE your own legs and feets. But that isn't just all, when you ride a HellBender or Scorpion you cant see your hands holding the steer or your feets pressing that accelerator, and when you look back to the place you are sit, you get emptyness
not even hl2 has this (i haven't played yet, just saw videos), the only game wich allows you to see your body is the unreleased F.E.A.R

THAT would be the **** and kinda a groundbreaking feature
;)

Operation Flashpoint had this as well

edhe
4th Apr 2005, 03:19 AM
They tend to keep body renders out of the game for the purpose of engine optimisation, but it's a valid point that it should probably be brought in at some point. Though it'll definitely be a toggled option in that case, i would think.

JohnDoe641
4th Apr 2005, 03:47 AM
There was a Jurrasic Park game that had that feature as well. I think it would be nice to have as an option, but most people would probably turn it off after a while.

Sir_Brizz
4th Apr 2005, 09:27 AM
You mean Trespasser? One of the biggest failures of PC gaming history? :p

JaFO
4th Apr 2005, 11:39 AM
Considering that a lot of people want to play this game without any visible weapons I'd doubt that visible limbs will be worth anything to them.

Otoh ... this new engine is said to be able to push millions of polygons. So adding a few for the body and some for the weapons isn't likely to hurt the game at all.
Heck I doubt that you'd notice any fps-drop in the current game provided you had a somewhat decent pc for this game.

Nosnos
4th Apr 2005, 02:18 PM
Well as long as you can turn it off ;)

Mr.Magnetichead
4th Apr 2005, 03:00 PM
B O D Y
one feature that almost NO GAME HAS is your body, omg is like you were a floating weapon wich insults dead people, and THAT SUCKS, you only can see yourself when pressing F4, and that is no way to play a deathmatch, don't get me wrong, i'm not asking for "Unreal Tournament:Max Payne Strikes Back" no, just the possibility to SEE your own legs and feets. But that isn't just all, when you ride a HellBender or Scorpion you cant see your hands holding the steer or your feets pressing that accelerator, and when you look back to the place you are sit, you get emptyness
not even hl2 has this (i haven't played yet, just saw videos), the only game wich allows you to see your body is the unreleased F.E.A.R

THAT would be the **** and kinda a groundbreaking feature
;)

Shows how much you know and how many games you've played.

Tribes 1 had it

Tribes 2 had it.

Operation Flashpoint had it

Jurrassic Park Trespasser had it.


A body is nothing but a distraction, it pretty much destroys your vertical FOV.

Also if you drive ONS vehicles in first person you're not playing well enough for your opinion to hold any kind of wait.

JaFO
4th Apr 2005, 04:00 PM
...
A body is nothing but a distraction, it pretty much destroys your vertical FOV.

a body done right won't destroy any FOV. In fact it will make it more realistic ...


Also if you drive ONS vehicles in first person you're not playing well enough for your opinion to hold any kind of wait.
Quite the contrary. If you need the increased FOV to compensate for your lack of situational awareness then you are the one that's not playing well enough :P

Besides he's got a valid point. Why go through the trouble of creating a 1st-person view for vehicles in the first place if it's not completed ?
They've got a somewhat convincing driver-position in the Hellbender & Scorpion, but the other vehicles don't have anything that resembles a cockpit. It would make the game feel finished if everything at least looked and operated identical.

Ignotium
4th Apr 2005, 11:59 PM
Shows how much you know and how many games you've played.

Tribes 1 had it

Tribes 2 had it.


Operation Flashpoint had it

Jurrassic Park Trespasser had it.


A body is nothing but a distraction, it pretty much destroys your vertical FOV.

Also if you drive ONS vehicles in first person you're not playing well enough for your opinion to hold any kind of wait.

a feature that A L M O S T NO GAME HAS

you mentioned what? 4 out of 1379497159715???

a body done right won't destroy any FOV. In fact it will make it more realistic ...

REAL Tournament? WTF?

lol

Lightzout
5th Apr 2005, 02:30 AM
Keep up the good work Ictus!

Mr.Magnetichead
5th Apr 2005, 06:57 AM
you mentioned what? 4 out of 1379497159715???





Now remove the games that are not FPS's

W0RF
5th Apr 2005, 07:25 AM
It may help the suspension of disbelief to be able to see your own body when looking down while on the ground, but is there really much point to that?

And if you're in the air and need to look down it will obstruct your view, which is hardly worth it to recreate the startling realism of people who apparently are always standing straight up, facing forward, even when rolling in mid air to blast somebody behind and below them.

Mr.Magnetichead
5th Apr 2005, 08:07 AM
Exactlly.