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el Gato
31st Mar 2005, 07:21 AM
UT had the Impact Hammer. UT2k3/4 had the shield gun.

What will 'envy' have (if anything)?

BadAss84
31st Mar 2005, 07:29 AM
Hm i think they will go back to the IH tbh, or at least an upgraded version or something, would please more UT99 fans and thats all epic seems to want atm :p

B
31st Mar 2005, 07:34 AM
The hammer was allready upgraded to the shieldgun and it sucks. I say bring back the old Hammer, especially since they want to focus on combat and not hide and seek, the Hammer would be a nice choise.

m&ms
31st Mar 2005, 07:53 AM
Neither. A nice metal pogo stick would obviously be the best choice. Not only is it good for clubbing people and making trickjumpers happy, but imagine gettings some good height with it and squishing down on someone's head. I'd love to hear a nice "boingy boingy boingy SPLAT." :lol:

BadAss84
31st Mar 2005, 08:04 AM
Neither. A nice metal pogo stick would obviously be the best choice. Not only is it good for clubbing people and making trickjumpers happy, but imagine gettings some good height with it and squishing down on someone's head. I'd love to hear a nice "boingy boingy boingy SPLAT." :lol:

lol :lol:

Nice idea :p

ToBiaS1988
31st Mar 2005, 08:51 AM
I think they realy have to come out with a new idea both weapons never were an alternative

WinkyBoy
31st Mar 2005, 09:56 AM
Either that, or they could just put BOTH in the game, and let it be a server-configurable option when starting the game: ImpactHammer or Shieldgun. Your choice. (I think they would be wise to make more things user-customizable in GENERAL)

ThirtySixBelow
31st Mar 2005, 10:26 AM
I hope they don't get rid of the shield gun, that would be a bad move considering they got rid of the LG so all the hitscan will be moved to the shock rifle. The sheild gun is very good defence against the SR. This will only help balance the game a little more being able to defend against the only "good" hitscan weapon. They can then make the sniper rifle bullets penetrate the shield so you can still hit people that are far away, thereby turning a sniper rifle into a ... sniper... rifle.

T2A`
31st Mar 2005, 12:31 PM
Defending shouldn't mean running away, and I hope that's the direction they're taking the next game: Less running away for defense, more gibbing your opponent in defense. I'm hoping there's no shield, but there definitely needs to be some sort of impact device for when you run out of ammo or you need to make a last-second jump to cap a flag. The shield is good in UT2004 because there's no balance against someone good at hitscan, but that doesn't mean it's going to be useful in UT3. I can already see the maps being a lot less huge in terms of line-of-sight due to the predicted nerfed dodge-jump, so it probably won't be so unbalanced anymore. You might actually be able to kill someone with rockets while he's at a decent distance with the shock rifle. Shock and awe!

el Gato
1st Apr 2005, 07:24 AM
With the ImpactHammer/ShieldGun:

1) Great fun getting a kill with it
2) Hearing a loaded IH made me run away like a little baby :p

There has to be something for those out-of-ammo moments.

-AEnubis-
1st Apr 2005, 12:10 PM
Yeah, the SG won't be needed. If when they nerf movment, they will have to drop the walking speed. This means many aspects of shock will change, prolly to the way there were in UT to balance. Since it most likely won't have any other "hit-scan competition", then it's realative ROF will no longer be the determining factor in how fast it shoots. Hence, it will shoot slowere, like in UT.

Personally, I loved the impact hammer, and would like to see either one of two things, happen, both of which include having the normal IH primary fire, which was charged, so you could gague damage/height for jumps, and have an automatically discharging melee attack. Secondary fire idea A: A full charge in a button tap. Quick max height jumps, or use of the IH damage during an IH jump (when your out of ammo, and wanna take out the sniper on the ledge above you). At current you can "knock them off", but that is about it. Secondary fire idea B: A modification of the original, except more useful. You could alter the path of projectiles thown at you, but only really slight them about 30 or so. Nothing like current SG where you could hold it down, but something maybe that deflect it with a well timed button press, and in the direction you aim it.

Personally, I like the first Idea better.

BooGiTyBoY
1st Apr 2005, 02:17 PM
I fully endorse the pogo-stick idea.

Selerox
1st Apr 2005, 02:34 PM
I'd prefer the Impact Hammer over the crappy, boring, lame Shieldgun any day of the week.

Dark Pulse
1st Apr 2005, 05:27 PM
Impact Hammer > j00.

1337
1st Apr 2005, 05:32 PM
I say we let the creative game designers make entirely different melee weapon.

T2A`
1st Apr 2005, 05:51 PM
As long as I can wall-climb with it, I don't really care what it is. :p

Xaero
1st Apr 2005, 06:05 PM
As long as I can wall-climb with it, I don't really care what it is. :p

How about a Batman-esque grapling hook boomerang device?

iron12
1st Apr 2005, 06:11 PM
In UT99 the impacthammer could be used to shot your translocator disk across the map which was pretty cool.

They are bringing the enforcers back, I think it would be cool if they brought the impacthammer, ripper, and chainsaw back to.

CyMek
1st Apr 2005, 06:21 PM
Woot! Chainsaw 4tw!!


RRRRRR!!

JaFO
1st Apr 2005, 06:29 PM
You can have your impact-hammer if and only if I get my Ripper (or whatever it is going to be called this time ;))

Hey ... why not turn the ripper into the next-gen melee-weapon ? *grrrrrrrrr* *splatter* :D

BadAss84
1st Apr 2005, 06:39 PM
heh chainsaw would own :)

I would actually like to see a new melee weapon i think, something different to both the IH and the SG ^^

Olga
1st Apr 2005, 06:55 PM
They should inegrate the Chainsaw with the Ripper.

Tournament0
2nd Apr 2005, 05:24 AM
Shield Gun should be included in "Envy", but Epic should modify it in some way.
I don't think that everyone here likes the Shield Gun, so that's why I think Epic should modify it.
Maybe Epic will have both Impact Hammer and Shield Gun. Maybe. ;)

-AEnubis-
2nd Apr 2005, 05:31 AM
Prolly not both seeing as how one is a modified concept of the other. If anything one comprimise between the two, but not both as seperates.

Tournament0
2nd Apr 2005, 05:33 AM
Just imagine if Epic included both. :eek:

The_Head
2nd Apr 2005, 06:56 AM
RIPPER CHAINSAW!!!
//drools.....

Its unoriginal, but something like the gravity gun on Halflife 2 that can deflect projectiles and stuff would be awesome

btw, Pogo stick would be sweet. I look forward to watching Boogity trickjump with one :D

Tournament0
3rd Apr 2005, 07:17 AM
I hope they make something new.
You know why.

BooGiTyBoY
5th Apr 2005, 06:12 AM
btw, Pogo stick would be sweet. I look forward to watching Boogity trickjump with one :D


:lol:

We just need one of these is all:


My melee weapon proposal:
http://img219.exs.cx/img219/15/olyps080p3copy1ir.jpg

Taleweaver
5th Apr 2005, 07:47 AM
:lol:

We just need one of these is all:


My melee weapon proposal:
:lol: Awesome. Just imagine a jump from Torlan's tower with that thing in your hands... :D

@The_Head: sorry, but could you shorten your walking wolf animation by just a centimeter? It's stretching out the posts. Thanks

ThirtySixBelow
5th Apr 2005, 09:43 AM
I personally think the chainsaw would be dumb. All of these futuristic weapons that shoot plasma and such, and then we have a craftsman chainsaw for the melee weapon :con: I hope they stick with the shield gun.

DeeperShade
5th Apr 2005, 10:16 AM
Impact Hammer. And for those who like punting the transloc, sorry, but i'd prefer it if a charged IH destroyed the transloc node. I mean look at it logically. A charged IH can frag a player instantly but it doesn't harm your node at all? Bull. It's just a cheap way to move across large distances.

@The_Head: sorry, but could you shorten your walking wolf animation by just a centimeter? It's stretching out the posts. Thanks

It's also in violation of BuF rules concerning sigs.. 800 px wide? I think not.

JaFO
5th Apr 2005, 11:14 AM
I personally think the chainsaw would be dumb. All of these futuristic weapons that shoot plasma and such, and then we have a craftsman chainsaw for the melee weapon :con: I hope they stick with the shield gun.
but imagine the blood, the giblets, the joy of tearing your opponent's dead body to pieces even after death and most important the sound as the chainsaw tears through armour and flesh and bone ...

A plasma-based weapon would be a boring old lightsabre. Pretty nasty, but nothing matches a chainsaw-style melee-weapon in pure bloody cruelty.

Kantham
5th Apr 2005, 11:22 AM
UC 2 swordz :eek:

NeoNite
5th Apr 2005, 11:34 AM
Impact hammer maybe.

Maybe a lightsaber. Or the katana from UT4E.
Without the telefragging option ;O)

The_Head
5th Apr 2005, 12:06 PM
The sword like on Chaos UT :D
I still like the idea of a ripper/chai9nsaw type thing

BooGiTyBoY
5th Apr 2005, 12:28 PM
Yeah but you can't jump with a chainsaw/lightsaber :(

Death Cube K
5th Apr 2005, 03:18 PM
I personally think the chainsaw would be dumb. All of these futuristic weapons that shoot plasma and such, and then we have a craftsman chainsaw for the melee weapon

Play UT1 much? Anyway, I personally hope it goes back to the piston. I needs my wallclimb.

-AEnubis-
5th Apr 2005, 03:19 PM
Impact Hammer. And for those who like punting the transloc, sorry, but i'd prefer it if a charged IH destroyed the transloc node. I mean look at it logically. A charged IH can frag a player instantly but it doesn't harm your node at all? Bull. It's just a cheap way to move across large distances.



Theoretically, if you charged the IH, and when the piston receeded into it, you could place your disc in the barrel, and since it's already making contact with the piston, there would be no "impact", just acelleration, and it would fly.

Your point though, would really go back to the FF debate.

...and the reason why jedi use lightsabers, and not impact hammers or shield guns, is they don't need shield with combination force seeing, and the lightsaber, and they don't need the impact to jump because of force jump.

Leave the lightsabers for the jedi. Give me back my IH.

carmatic
5th Apr 2005, 03:49 PM
hm i think an acme-style springy mullet which unfolds in front of the player when deployed

or something similar that requires skill to use...

The_Head
5th Apr 2005, 04:00 PM
Yeah but you can't jump with a chainsaw/lightsaber :(
Good point. Can't go without shield / impact jumps or something similar.
I want jumping but I do like somit for slicing crushing chopping people or the like.

carmatic
5th Apr 2005, 04:15 PM
how about, the chainsaw that is so advanced it can double as a jumping weapon, but you have to figure out how to? like the shock combo in unreal 1, even in the manual it only gave hints about the shock combo (unlike in 2k4 where they actually tell you to shoot the secondary fire with the primary fire) and i remember vividly people asking how to do this secret attack with the shock rifle...

The_Head
5th Apr 2005, 04:25 PM
LOL

You should be able to get it spinning then put it up against a wall then get pulled up the wall.....

(that might be ott but it would be fun)

NeoNite
5th Apr 2005, 05:04 PM
Yeah but you can't jump with a chainsaw/lightsaber :(

Oh, but you can jump pretty high/far with the katana though ;O)

Even without 2nd fire.

Yeah I know, Sg or Ihammer would be preferred.
I'd prefer seeing the IH though.

kafros
5th Apr 2005, 05:56 PM
I propose the FH (fart hammer)

A hammer that is so heavy that you fart when you try to lift it up. The fart propells you up.

Also a REAL shield gun would be nice (i.e. a gun that actually shoots shields)

<Death message>
Kafros couldn't avoid |33t Fr4gg3r's freesbee/shield
</Death message>

NeoNite
5th Apr 2005, 06:05 PM
Also a REAL shield gun would be nice (i.e. a gun that actually shoots shields)

<Death message>
Kafros couldn't avoid |33t Fr4gg3r's freesbee/shield
</Death message>

That sounds like the ripper :O)

FireCrack
5th Apr 2005, 10:16 PM
The sheild gun was more tactuicaly usefull (well the primary fire was essentialy the smae)

But the impact hammer was just so much mor intimidating and awesome.


I propose an impact hammer with an underbarrel sheild projector. Oh and put spikes on the front of the impact bit, that wouldnt hurt (well actualy it would, alot)

Ignotium
5th Apr 2005, 11:31 PM
impact hammer all the way
the shield is very *****-going weapon
besides, the IH is way more savage and bloody, +

The_Head
6th Apr 2005, 12:43 PM
Make the Impact Hammer even more intimidating by making it so you can run faster than normal people when you have it out :D

CyMek
6th Apr 2005, 02:28 PM
Oh and put spikes on the front of the impact bit, that wouldnt hurt (well actualy it would, alot)

Actually, it does. Just on the sides of where the piston comes out. Spike and blast!

FireCrack
6th Apr 2005, 06:46 PM
No, i mean on the piston! Small ones, but lotsa them!

JaFO
6th Apr 2005, 06:54 PM
Yeah but you can't jump with a chainsaw/lightsaber :(
I'm pretty sure you can jump really high if someone stuck a lightsaber/chainsaw in your family jewels ;)

el Gato
6th Apr 2005, 10:16 PM
I'd like to see either the return of the IH, or somehting new, like a nuclear-powered battery with jumper cables. You'd have to get in real close, like the IH, and clamp the aligator clips onto some nips. That'll gib ya! :)

-AEnubis-
7th Apr 2005, 02:23 AM
I'm pretty sure you can jump really high if someone stuck a lightsaber/chainsaw near your family jewels ;)

Edited for clarity. After contact is made, you pretty much give up on life in general me thinx.

edhe
7th Apr 2005, 05:02 AM
Piston Boot Jumps! Wheee!!!

For some reason i'd like them back :)

-AEnubis-
7th Apr 2005, 05:16 AM
Boot Jump to piston wall kick.

edhe
7th Apr 2005, 06:09 AM
Lavagiant deemer route - blue low to high right boot-jump piston-boost, legal :)

carmatic
7th Apr 2005, 06:56 AM
hm if you have a spikey-looking impact hammer, then wouldnt that be q3? and oh, if the impact hammer shot spikes, wouldnt that also be the tyradium secondary fire, or even the flak primary fire?
and ive heard that if you time the blast from the impact hammer properly you can deflect rockets... hmm...

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 08:56 AM
Yeah you could deflect rox with the IH although it was VERY hard.
Thanx for reminding me of that Carm, cuz I too would love to see a melee weapon with some sort of deflection ability. Not like in UC2 though... make it do-able but challenging.

Tournament0
7th Apr 2005, 11:15 AM
Impact hammer maybe.

Maybe a lightsaber.

:tup:
:)

Kantham
7th Apr 2005, 11:46 AM
http://img53.exs.cx/img53/2834/lololol5og.gif

AntiMatter
7th Apr 2005, 12:07 PM
Lightsaw ?

Chainsabre ?

:con:

SharKTanK
7th Apr 2005, 01:35 PM
http://thewarp.net/war/believers/sf_bc_left.JPG

Chainsword!! :D:D:D:D

cubemario
7th Apr 2005, 01:56 PM
I only got into ut games at the 2004 version. So I don't know what the impact hammer was like. Anything beats the shield gun though.

NeoNite
7th Apr 2005, 05:28 PM
Sharktank, stop posting pics of Robotpron plz ktnx.

SharKTanK
7th Apr 2005, 05:30 PM
sowwy ;c

-AEnubis-
7th Apr 2005, 05:45 PM
You could deflect almost any projectile with the IH, but could only move it a small angle from where it was already traveling. You could actually turn the path of a redeemer about 30, but it wasn't really useful, unless it was shot down at a slight angle to you, then you got under it, and deflected it up, so it maybe traveled parralell to the ground, then not detonating near you. It was more practical just to shoot it, which in that game was loads easier to do.

BooGiTyBoY
7th Apr 2005, 07:26 PM
Shark if yer gonna go 40k on us.. at least do it right. ;)

THUNDER HAMMER!
http://space.hulk.free.fr/sh/images/reference/weapons/thunder_hammer.jpg
For those of you not into 40k, it's a huge hammer with a force field generator in it that keeps a charge in "check" until it strikes something. It is then released with enough impact it sounds like... well.. thunder. Imagine if you will a sledgehammer you could crack a tank in two with... with one hand. :D

Or you could always go the college fanboi route.
http://www.colocationwest1.com/pmall_images/7056D-TN.jpg

THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!

Taleweaver
7th Apr 2005, 07:40 PM
Is it a coincidence that a large part of the suggested weapons originate from UT99's Unreal4Ever arsenal (http://www.planetunreal.com/u4e/U4E_Docs/U4E-Docs.htm)?

Chainsaw with spin ability=Hellsaw
Light sabre=Lightsword (yes, with a 'teh force jump')
There was a "Thor's hammer" as well, but forgot how it was called...
...And the Katana sword, as NeoNite suggested

All were awesome melee weapons, if you ask me.
\me suddenly remembers that I have UT99 installed :)

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 09:42 PM
The thors hammer had some norse name. I liked it cause you could fly with it.

Death Cube K
7th Apr 2005, 10:28 PM
The thors hammer had some norse name.

It was Mjolnir wasn't it?

FireCrack
7th Apr 2005, 11:33 PM
I know it wasn't mjlnor, it was two words, posibly hypenated. Like Sajuk-Kor, but that's obviously not it.

Death Cube K
7th Apr 2005, 11:41 PM
B-b-but Mjolnir is the name of Thor's hammer!

Mulch_D
8th Apr 2005, 08:17 AM
Here's my idea for a melee weapon (beware long post, summarized version at bottom):
It's alot like the UT ripper but the blade never leaves the weapon because it's attached to the gun, it just sits at the back doing nothing by defult. It can do no damage while the blade is at the back.
Primary fire: sends the circular saw blade (or whatever) to the front hold it down and it stays there. If pointed at a surface when this is done the propeled a little with little or no damage taken. About 50 or so damage is delt if an oppent is hit by the blade as it come falward (knowen as impact), and about 15 if they just get hit by it while it's out the front.
Secondary fire: Spins the blade, regadless of the blades position it starts spinning and making a noise. but this slowly wears down the energy and can only be held for about 20 secons straight without needing to recharge. This gets faster the longer it is held down. A spinning blade will inflict 200 damage when spinning at max speed and you get hit at impact, it will deal 90 if they just get hit by it spinning at max speed out the front. If you do a jump with it while it is spinning you can get some cool effects, being shot off in the dirrection the spinning would send you, hard to predict but gets you some great speed, this inflicts about 25 damage to the jumper.
If it is spinning for long enough (about 4 seconds) the electrons start to shift to the edge and it becomes polarized (Note: I don't properly know if this works in real life, but I don't care), you can tell this has happened cause blue sparks come off. If the blade is out the front while polarized it will slightly alter the cause of some projectiles.
Combo jump move: If the player gets the blade polarized at the back of the gun then is stoped spinning just befor the player send it to the front (1 second or less) the polerization still remains and apon impact it will project the player great hieghts (or if used on another player it will send them quite far). If doing an impact jump like this about 20 damage is infliceted.

Summarized version

Looks like UT ripper
Uses saw blades like the ripper but doesn't fire them
Primary fire sends them at high speed to the front
Alt Fire spins the blades
If spinning for long enough become polirized and slightly alter the cause of some projectiles.
Has a combo can be used to jump or fire around other players.

So what do you guys think?

Edit: for those who don't know this is the ripper:
http://www.unreal-info.net/ut/images/ripper.jpg

Taleweaver
8th Apr 2005, 08:47 AM
So what do you guys think?
It took a while to understand just how it worked, but it sounds pretty cool and balanced in the game as well...
-possibility to recreate some sort of dodgejump-like maneuver shall be needed in onslaught to compensate for nerfed movement (which is going to happen, 'cause ut200x is 'too bouncy')
-regular shieldjumps are also possible
-the back and forth positions make for some fun close ripper vs ripper combat (back deals more damage, but forth is easier to hit the target)
-sneak attacks with the melee weapon (though it doesn't deal as much damage)
-redirection/deflection of projectiles a la UT99 is a good replacement of the shield (IMO it was waaaaaay too hard to deflect anything with the impact hammer's alt fire).

If I have to vote for any suggested melee weapon here, it will be yours :)

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 08:52 AM
Sounds cool but also sounds just like Quake3's gauntlet weapon, which I don't think would fly too well with Epic. ;)

Mulch_D
8th Apr 2005, 08:56 AM
-the back and forth positions make for some fun close ripper vs ripper combat (back deals more damage, but forth is easier to hit the target)
Wait I don't think I made it clear, no damage can be done while the blade is at the back, but if you hit someone when the blade hits the front (the moment I have named impact) then the damage is much higher (because not only are they being cut they're also having the equivelent of an impact hammer hit). I will edit my above post explainning this.
If I have to vote for any suggested melee weapon here, it will be yours :)
Thanks, much appriecated. Now we need to pitch the idea to Epic ;)
Sounds cool but also sounds just like Quake3's gauntlet weapon, which I don't think would fly too well with Epic. ;)
I have never played Quake 3 so I had no idea.

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 09:08 AM
:) It's basically a little buzzsaw

http://netparty.free.fr/jeux/quake3/gauntlet.jpg
http://www.quake3world.com/info/weapons/gauntlet.jpg

Mulch_D
8th Apr 2005, 09:15 AM
Oh, damn :(
I thought I actualy had come up with something cool and origanal, and something that would fit into the unreal universe.

BooGiTyBoY
8th Apr 2005, 11:27 AM
Well you still get points for your Feathers McGraw avatar ;)

NeoNite
8th Apr 2005, 12:09 PM
Is it a coincidence that a large part of the suggested weapons originate from UT99's Unreal4Ever arsenal (http://www.planetunreal.com/u4e/U4E_Docs/U4E-Docs.htm)?

Chainsaw with spin ability=Hellsaw
Light sabre=Lightsword (yes, with a 'teh force jump')
There was a "Thor's hammer" as well, but forgot how it was called...
...And the Katana sword, as NeoNite suggested

All were awesome melee weapons, if you ask me.
\me suddenly remembers that I have UT99 installed :)

The Ut bots are quite adept at using the chainsaw though.
Beware. Especially in teamgames.

They're not bad either when they have that hammer selected.

As for the katana, they're quite fond of using secondary fire and if they do so, they hardly miss ;O)
Just be quick, jump around. Ok, you move a bit faster and there's more aircontrol but once you master the katana movement you can pwn the AI seriously.