PDA

View Full Version : "Down with the hip hop"


rhirud
29th Mar 2005, 09:07 AM
http://img190.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img190&image=ut74mc.jpg

from

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=459552

It seems that there will be a lot less dodging in ut2006.

Ps..dDG
29th Mar 2005, 09:10 AM
Wow, they managed to make Malcolm look even crappier than in UT2k3/4.

Angel_Mapper
29th Mar 2005, 09:11 AM
Well, he's friggin 200 years old by now.

Bang Yr Head
29th Mar 2005, 11:06 AM
Wow, they managed to make Malcolm look even crappier than in UT2k3/4.

UM???? WGHAT??? You crazy? He looks amazing :eek:

1337
29th Mar 2005, 11:59 AM
Well, detail-wise he looks amazing but he doesn't look pornstar like previous versions.

zynthetic
29th Mar 2005, 01:53 PM
ok, apart from malcom...
Is it going to be like Halo movement. where you briskly jog everywhere? :p Get rid of 2k4 style movement and you may as well ditch ctf and/or xloc. I'm fairly disappointed w/ this decision.

Angel_Mapper
29th Mar 2005, 01:57 PM
Get rid of 2k4 style movement and you may as well ditch ctf and/or xloc.Seemed to work great for UT99. :confused:

Nemephosis
29th Mar 2005, 02:09 PM
so in other words:

"CTF isn't worth playing if you have to walk places".

I guess we'll find out who the real CTF fans are come UT2006.

Salvatore
29th Mar 2005, 02:37 PM
So, now I have to move slower? Christ, UT's supposed to be the fast-paced dodgefest :P

Makes it MORE gratifying if I nail someone who's flying all over the place than someone doing a nice slow jog.

T2A`
29th Mar 2005, 02:46 PM
Is it going to be like Halo movement. where you briskly jog everywhere? :p Get rid of 2k4 style movement and you may as well ditch ctf and/or xloc. I'm fairly disappointed w/ this decision.My guess if they're getting rid of the dodge double jump and that's it. Dodging is part of the Unreal franchise just as much as Malcolm is, so there's no way they're going to get rid of it. I'd bet money that all they're going to do is disable the double jump in dodges and walldodges and everything else will stay the same. It'll probably be like UT movement with faster walking and walldodges and double jumps as well. Besides, they're keeping the translocator in, so no worries there. :D

-AEnubis-
29th Mar 2005, 02:46 PM
I love how people think it's going to be nerfed so bad. They specifically said in that article, that they liked better how in UT the game felt more up close and personal, and they wanted to move back towards that.

Worst Case Scenario Hypothesis: UT movement in 2006.

Current Hypothesis: Remove double jump, Keep wall kick.

My confidence in Epics "community research" is growing. More and more I see ideas about how this game should change, that I post about being taken for serious consideration. Naturally, I can't say it's just me, other people share my idea's quite frequently, but... This makes me quite happy too see where they go with it.

Rest assured you will always have the dodge. It's simply not UT without it.

JohnDoe641
29th Mar 2005, 02:48 PM
Malcoms is the opposite of M Jackson, he's going from white to black. :c

T2A`
29th Mar 2005, 03:00 PM
Current Hypothesis: Remove double jump, Keep wall kick.They've already stated the double jump is in.

Revised Current Hypothesis: Remove double jump in dodges and walldodges only. Keep everything else.

nick89
29th Mar 2005, 04:33 PM
Im sure there will be a ton of mutators for current movment, but really i care not to make any comments at such early stages of this game.

zynthetic
29th Mar 2005, 04:48 PM
Guess not many ppl play CTF, or at least those that do only on D. It's hard to imagine how it would play now if the current movement was replaced w/ UT style movement. Even a FC backed up by their entire team would have an extremely difficult time getting back to base, and that's if they dont have an EFC to worry about when they get there. Nerf the xloc back to UT style and it may work.
Moving the fight to closer quarters may be a good thing for certain gametypes (well, maybe only for dm) but even at that it's all brute force and comes down to who has the better weapon.
I can't possibly see why Epic would want to force fights to a closer range esp when creating a gametype such as Conquest that apparently spans across massive maps.

Angel_Mapper
29th Mar 2005, 07:50 PM
I can't possibly see why Epic would want to force fights to a closer range esp when creating a gametype such as Conquest that apparently spans across massive maps.I'm thinking that gametype will take place in vehicles mostly.

Dark Pulse
29th Mar 2005, 08:09 PM
I'm thinking that gametype will take place in vehicles mostly.
Likewise.

Vehicles are going to be a major mode of transport - there's going to be 18 for christ's sake. And for those time where you're not in one, dodging and Translocators will work.

-AEnubis-
29th Mar 2005, 11:47 PM
Stock CTF will still prolly be trans, no vehicles, the trans will stay as is, and to compensate for the lack of dodge jump (as hypothesized) they will increase the base walking speed (ala UT).

Yeah, I read that shortly after I made that post, and that is definately my new hypothesis. Double Jump only after jump, not dodge, wall kick, or push effect from weapons.

T2A`
30th Mar 2005, 12:58 AM
Guess not many ppl play CTF, or at least those that do only on D. It's hard to imagine how it would play now if the current movement was replaced w/ UT style movement. Even a FC backed up by their entire team would have an extremely difficult time getting back to base, and that's if they dont have an EFC to worry about when they get there. Nerf the xloc back to UT style and it may work.Epic has done their best to balance things out in the past; I'm sure they will in the future. Hell, they had to change the whole mapping system and weapon balance around to compensate for the dodge-jump in UT2003. If the dodge-jump is eliminated, I'm 107.2% sure other things will be balanced accordingly. The xloc will probably fly slower while players' walking speed and dodge distance will be increased. You can't look at the next UT as UT2004 minus the dodge-jump, because they will be changing a lot of stuff, just as a lot was changed from UT to UT2003.

Sir_Brizz
30th Mar 2005, 09:30 AM
Stock CTF will still prolly be trans, no vehicles, the trans will stay as is, and to compensate for the lack of dodge jump (as hypothesized) they will increase the base walking speed (ala UT).
Personlly, I think Epic is going to try to play it smarter this time. The way CTF should have been in 2k4 is to just have Vehicles as part of the map. I don't think it deserved to be it's own gametype with it's own naming convention because the only difference is what the map conatins, and how it is balanced. They rules don't really change.

Tournament0
30th Mar 2005, 11:22 AM
Dodging is part of the Unreal franchise

I would love it if the dodging is like U2XMP!
:)

T2A`
30th Mar 2005, 11:28 AM
Personlly, I think Epic is going to try to play it smarter this time. The way CTF should have been in 2k4 is to just have Vehicles as part of the map. I don't think it deserved to be it's own gametype with it's own naming convention because the only difference is what the map conatins, and how it is balanced. They rules don't really change.There is a big different though. VCTF sucks.

Sir_Brizz
30th Mar 2005, 11:58 AM
There is a big different though. VCTF sucks.
No. VCTF MAPS suck.

iron12
30th Mar 2005, 12:34 PM
Best Malcolm ever was the opening cinima to the singleplayer on UT2003.

He look like a Bad Mother f--(shut your mouth) :)

carmatic
30th Mar 2005, 01:28 PM
hm they said that theyre gonna make it so that you can hit people more easily, when they dont jump around so much? wouldnt that be noobifying the game or something, like people practice and practice and practice so that they just can hit people with the shock rifle and lighting gun.... but oh well, im more than in for it if they gonna make it so that its abit closer to doom3 , where i dont have to squint at a slowly moving dot on my screen and suddenly get headshotted...

also, on the current onslaught gametype, which is basically the most evolved gametype i've ever played, fights happen on and around nodes most of the time, theyre like mini deathmatch arenas when vehicles leave you alone, but one tank shell and its over... maybe they can take this further in the next unreal tournament? like how people fight around the nodes in redplanet, players hide in there from mantas, scorpions and raptors, and when there are no tanks around you just keep on fighting around there, maybe that's when it can become doom3-like instead of long-range battles with lighting guns across the whole map... argh thinking about it makes me wanna jump back in and oooh

-AEnubis-
30th Mar 2005, 01:39 PM
I kinda agree with you brizz, I think things like weapon lockers, and vehicles could be included in maps of all game types, if balanced appropiately, and yeah, VCTF maps suck, the gametype has potential. The only snafu with it is the trans. The trans is a game setting independent of the map, and really should only be there if vehicles are not in theory, though I don't know if it could be balanced with both.

One of the things I don't like about VCTF is that you really have to grab a vehicle most times. Walking is just way too time consuming, so unless you just wanna play defense, and can take out most vehicles on foot, you're forced into using vehicles. Having a trans might prevent that, and you'd still be at some disadvantages for using trans > vehicles, but I can't say how it would effect gameplay...

Bazzi
30th Mar 2005, 02:09 PM
Well:

Unreal Tournament was about killing.
Unreal Tournament 2003/4 were about not being killed.
I like it when Envy returns to the UT style, killing is much more fun. Random violence all over the place \o/

And about noobifying it, the current skill level required to play decent online games is too high. And that doesnt help player count at all. If skilled players cannot accept being killed sometimes even by a noob I'm very sorry for them.

But I can gladly see the 5% or so pro players play other games. No loss as far as I am concerned.

Sir_Brizz
30th Mar 2005, 02:15 PM
I kinda agree with you brizz, I think things like weapon lockers, and vehicles could be included in maps of all game types, if balanced appropiately, and yeah, VCTF maps suck, the gametype has potential. The only snafu with it is the trans. The trans is a game setting independent of the map, and really should only be there if vehicles are not in theory, though I don't know if it could be balanced with both.
It could easily have been made a check box in CTF. "No Trans w/ Vehicles".

I think on most maps, the Trans is needed, and doesn't really detract from the gameplay with or without vehicles. The only reason I think it's not included is because it's harder to run people over when they are translocating around and the point of having vehicles is of course to run people over.

Selerox
30th Mar 2005, 03:05 PM
One thing's for certain, if they tone down some of the funkier movement stuff, they'll kick up the run speed. It can't stay at UT200x speeds with less hip-hop.

Bang Yr Head
30th Mar 2005, 03:20 PM
One thing's for certain, if they tone down some of the funkier movement stuff, they'll kick up the run speed. It can't stay at UT200x speeds with less hip-hop.

I was definitely thinking that. a faster run speed and smoother movement would be very welcome in my book :)

NeoNite
30th Mar 2005, 04:39 PM
Malcoms is the opposite of M Jackson, he's going from white to black. :c

Malcolm was never white in the first place D:
Though...he was yella, when it came to figthing loque...

JaFO
30th Mar 2005, 05:11 PM
My guess is that Epic has finally realised that the balance between someone acting like a monkey on speed and an absolute beginner (as far as acrobatic movement is concerned) is far too much in favour of the monkey, unless their opponent blankets the area with area-based weapons.

That's something that really needs to be fixed if the franchise ever wants to attract players used to playing games that don't feature such acrobatic movement.

I hope they've got the guts to drastically modify the movement while maintaining the essence of Unreal.
Personally I'd like to see them take the species-based approach that was removed from UT2kx-series and implemented in UC2. In other words : if the character looks like a ff-ing big Titan then it probably is going to move & take damage like one ...

Caravaggio
30th Mar 2005, 08:06 PM
All this talk about movement, I wouldn't blame them if they released a demo of nothing but pea shooting stick figures and a cube map just that people can finally see what it's like to jump around shooting eachother.

iron12
30th Mar 2005, 09:19 PM
My guess is that Epic has finally realised that the balance between someone acting like a monkey on speed and an absolute beginner (as far as acrobatic movement is concerned) is far too much in favour of the monkey, unless their opponent blankets the area with area-based weapons.

That's something that really needs to be fixed if the franchise ever wants to attract players used to playing games that don't feature such acrobatic movement.

I hope they've got the guts to drastically modify the movement while maintaining the essence of Unreal.
Personally I'd like to see them take the species-based approach that was removed from UT2kx-series and implemented in UC2. In other words : if the character looks like a ff-ing big Titan then it probably is going to move & take damage like one ...

Not only that, who whats to watch a monkey on speed.

Not me.

The expression, stop and smell the roses.

Well I say slow this puppy down so Im not looking at a kaleidoscope of colors jumping off the walls. Looks like they are trying to find some middle ground here.

el Gato
31st Mar 2005, 06:26 AM
I'd be happy with a return to UT movement - faster with dodges, and remove the monkey-on-crack wall and double jumps.

But they'll have to keep the shield gun (or impact hammer, or something similar) to perform assisted jumps and bring back the jump boots!

Selerox
31st Mar 2005, 11:50 AM
Not only that, who whats to watch a monkey on speed.

I dunno, that could be pretty funny actually :lol:

8-4-7-2
31st Mar 2005, 12:24 PM
I'm all for getting rid of the excessive jumping :tup: :)

Dodging, walldodging and double jumping is good, but the rest just ruins the gameplay.
People should get back to walking and using the floors. A slightly faster running speed might be ok.

People say UT is a faced past game. Compared to many other games it was. But UT200x plays way faster. I liked the old movement fine

JaFO
31st Mar 2005, 01:33 PM
I'm all for getting rid of the excessive jumping :tup: :)
...
hmmm ... somehow I see a pattern emerging :

UT99 : excessive translocator-use is boring/not attractive to *new* players so it gets modified/nerfed ...

UT2kx : excessive jumping is 'ruining' the experience for new players so this gets modified in the next UT ???

The real question is : how are they going to do this ?
They tried to fix the translocator by using charges and limiting its use. IMHO this hurt the new players and didn't do anything for the translocator-monkeys after they'd adjusted.

Also note that it appears they're trying to create 8 separate teams with their own vehicles and they mention model-dependent armour (again). I think it would be logical if they tried to create a separate 'feel' for each team by modifying their movement as well ...

Bazzi
31st Mar 2005, 05:10 PM
I'm all for removing xloc altogether.....

8-4-7-2
1st Apr 2005, 06:26 AM
I have nothing against the translocator. Even in its unlimited UT version

But you can't use the translocator when you have the flag. You can however use UT2004's jumps while carrying a flag.
That's excactly what leads to this "running away instead of fighting" feeling

fuegerstef
1st Apr 2005, 12:01 PM
You can't look at the next UT as UT2004 minus the dodge-jump

Yeah, but most people have very limited imagination and/or creativity. So you cannot blame them.

carmatic
1st Apr 2005, 01:45 PM
i think that the jumping monkey crack idea eventually led to Liandri Conflict on the xbox, where people do the crack monkey thing to the next level and apparently kill people just by jumping around (?)
i think that its tragic that a game can have its gameplay evolved online into such a state where good players hate it alot when they get killed by newbies and newbies get turned away when they cant touch anybody in-game... i think that the game should be fast-paced, but the kill rate should be lower overall , like instead of players annihilating each other the moment they come into contact (thus staying alive requires the use of the jumping that they are trying to get rid of) , it should take longer to kill each other, like more tactics and less ragdolls, like how weak the link gun secondary fire was back in 1999... i think when i saw the pictures that came with ut2k3 , the made me think of this kind of 'high feeling' when you are responding so fast to your opponents, like the pictures have this white blur in them to try to describe that feeling, and it seemed that the only way to succeed in the game was to develop fast reflexes and OK Corrall aiming ... and also to tune the mouse sensivity to something lower than all the other games i've played before, because most of the fights in the game occur at ranges that make the player models use as many screen pixels as the guys in Lunar Rescue ...

UnrealGrrl
1st Apr 2005, 02:33 PM
the new model renders including malcolm look great so far! cant wait to see more!!

and movement going back to more UT style would be great imnsho...

as for CTF, Unreal CTF is with the TL on and no vehicles as far as im concerned, vctf is not unreal ctf, it is another gametype that just has not grown on me...

i miss playing wide open maps like ctf-horus and project-x and the classic closed in Coret and hallway styles of UT... if thats coming back where movement combined with the TL makes both those types of maps playable again in Unreal-CTF then i am a very happy camper! :)

T2A`
1st Apr 2005, 02:55 PM
as for CTF, Unreal CTF is with the TL on and no vehicles as far as im concerned, vctf is not unreal ctf, it is another gametype that just has not grown on me...:stupid:

VCTF sucks, there's no way around that. Everyone says it could be good if the maps didn't suck, but since there are no good maps at all, that leads me to believe that it's not the maps causing the gametype to suck - it's the gametype itself doing all the sucking.

JohnDoe641
1st Apr 2005, 08:48 PM
Malcolm was never white in the first place D:
Though...he was yella, when it came to figthing loque...
True, but he wasn't black either. :p

He was more milano over anything else (in UT that is). D:

Sir_Brizz
1st Apr 2005, 09:41 PM
:stupid:

VCTF sucks, there's no way around that. Everyone says it could be good if the maps didn't suck, but since there are no good maps at all, that leads me to believe that it's not the maps causing the gametype to suck - it's the gametype itself doing all the sucking.
No, because no good map maker has made a map for VCTF yet. And they likely never will, even though it has ever so slight potential.

Dark Pulse
2nd Apr 2005, 05:00 AM
True, but he wasn't black either. :p

He was more milano over anything else (in UT that is). D:
I believe you mean "Mulatto."

Symbolikal
2nd Apr 2005, 05:13 AM
I believe you mean "Mulatto."
Am I the only person who thinks about Smells Like Teen Spirit when Mulatto is said?
Getting on-topic, I like Epic's idea of an in your face game.

JohnDoe641
2nd Apr 2005, 07:55 AM
I believe you mean "Mulatto."
Ya ya ya.

Whatever it is. :p

JaFO
2nd Apr 2005, 08:17 AM
No, because no good map maker has made a map for VCTF yet. And they likely never will, even though it has ever so slight potential.
I guess that's because most map-makers still treat it as 'classic' CTF with vehicles being treated as an afterthought or at best as 'superweapons' instead of thinking about the role those vehicles should fill.

That's why ONS 'works' ... in (good) maps each vehicle has a specific role that adds to the experience of the game.

Unfortunately most players/mappers don't think beyond "vehicles are cool" and therefor they're unable to make vCTF work.
// ---
I wonder what the new movement will do for a game like ONS with its vehicles.
It won't be as easy to dodge them. It probably will be easier to hit people as well. There's definitely going to be a bigger gap between players and vehicles, unless the vehicles themselves are modified.

AMmayhem
2nd Apr 2005, 09:17 AM
bring back the jump boots!

Amen!


Also note that it appears they're trying to create 8 separate teams with their own vehicles and they mention model-dependent armour (again). I think it would be logical if they tried to create a separate 'feel' for each team by modifying their movement as well ...

I don't like the idea of creating too much different with 'teams' having different armor, movement, vehicles, etc. It would take a lot more balancing work than what is already needed, and even then it's not perfect. I just see a lot of complaining down that route that things aren't 'fair,' it's not balanced... :hmm:

Selerox
2nd Apr 2005, 09:50 AM
I guess that's because most map-makers still treat it as 'classic' CTF with vehicles being treated as an afterthought or at best as 'superweapons' instead of thinking about the role those vehicles should fill.

Most mappers can't make normal CTF maps, why they think they can make vCTF maps amazes me.

Speaking of good CTF maps, FlagPack2 will be thundering into view pretty soon :)

NeoNite
2nd Apr 2005, 10:20 AM
Am I the only person who thinks about Smells Like Teen Spirit when Mulatto is said?
Getting on-topic, I like Epic's idea of an in your face game.

Well, the song was released in the year you were born :D

Selerox
2nd Apr 2005, 11:12 AM
Well, the song was released in the year you were born :D

Thankyou for making me feel very, very old.

The_Head
2nd Apr 2005, 02:33 PM
Personally I'm not sure the best way to go. UT99 and UT2004 are both great games, and have individual things that are better about each of them. Dodge jumping off walls is great fun, but I could cope with it going. Bringing Vehicles into all gametypes is bad imo.

Different stats would be interesting if it could be implemented well, but thats only If they did it well. I doubt it would be easy to get right. Would make sense though, Eventually a reason to use a skin which you can see from the other side of the level (a juggernaught)
btw, I think they are making Malcolm look worse.... He looks too 'nice' now

T2A`
2nd Apr 2005, 02:41 PM
He looks too 'nice' nowBecause Epic knows that Gorge is the man. They're just putting Malcolm in his place. ;)

The_Head
2nd Apr 2005, 02:56 PM
Because Epic knows that Gorge is the man. They're just putting Malcolm in his place. ;)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NeoNite
2nd Apr 2005, 03:47 PM
Thankyou for making me feel very, very old.

Well, I'm (most likely) older than you are so let me see that smile on your face now ;O)

carmatic
2nd Apr 2005, 04:53 PM
but are you older than how old malcolm looks now?

NeoNite
2nd Apr 2005, 04:55 PM
but are you older than how old malcolm looks now?

I bet you are!

spineblaZe
2nd Apr 2005, 05:43 PM
Well:

Unreal Tournament was about killing.
Unreal Tournament 2003/4 were about not being killed.
I like it when Envy returns to the UT style, killing is much more fun. Random violence all over the place \o/

And about noobifying it, the current skill level required to play decent online games is too high. And that doesnt help player count at all. If skilled players cannot accept being killed sometimes even by a noob I'm very sorry for them.

But I can gladly see the 5% or so pro players play other games. No loss as far as I am concerned.

<3 :tup: Sooo true. I really like UT2K*'s movement, but one can't deny that it's a little over-the-top.

I like the idea of toning down the movement. The crazy movement in UT2K* is what made the scale seem so weird. They had to make maps giant because you can jump 6 or 7 times your body length. The movement feels normal to us because we are so used to it, but to anyone who hasn't played UT2K* the insane hight and distance you can jump seems daunting and even silly.

I've met some really hardcore Quake 3 players at LAN party's, and I mean really good. Quake 3 players are no strangers to amazing jumps and tricks, but when they see you can jump OVER the entire length of a tank or hellbender with a simple dodge-jump they laugh at how ridiculous the movement is. Toning it down will definately be a good thing for community. :tup:

carmatic
3rd Apr 2005, 09:06 AM
yeah i have to agree even more about the ut99 being killing people and ut2k4 being not being killed... dodging other people's attempts at causing instant death to you is fun, but not as fun as slowly but surely dragging them towards death with every hit, make it so that aiming helps, but knowing when not to get killed is more important, and it makes every death count more

like at the end of a deathmatch game as it is now, the players are sorted by their frag counts, but all of them have roughly equal deaths, i dunno if they spent a looong time to get it to work just like that, but maybe if the death counts can be made to go in the opposite direction as kill counts... like, not getting killed is a way to kill... that would be ideal