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expisCoR
12th Mar 2005, 02:32 PM
Name: JB-Depository
For: Unreal Tournament 2004, Jailbreak

Download link: http://clancor.igamecafe.com/download.php?view.28

I will try to post screenshots later, but for now, any comments, suggestions, rants, thanks, praise, life stories, etc (that relate to the map) are welcome. Thanks. (please note that is is my first JB map, but still, don't go easy just because of that)

Symbolikal
13th Mar 2005, 08:37 AM
Which game is it for? Nobody will touch the map without screenshots.

4WD
13th Mar 2005, 08:52 AM
lol, it's a jailbreak map ;) (2k4)

Symbolikal
15th Mar 2005, 04:52 PM
He didn't say buggerall about whether it was JBIII or JB2k4. Still no screenies either.

expisCoR
15th Mar 2005, 05:32 PM
Here are some screenshots that I just took.

Funktion
16th Mar 2005, 04:15 PM
I just tried your map. Like you asked, I won't go easy on you (:D). I must say I don't map, so my opinion is purely as a gamer.

First of all, is the "look" of the map supposed to be final, or will you actually add textures? If it's supposed to be final, I must say it looks pretty bad since the map is all grey, and has an uninteresting look.
Regarding the layout of the map the lower level is rather pointless (and what the hell is that "pit" with spiders in it? :)); the upper level while quite basic (3 corridors and some boxes) it's actually kind of fun when the number of players is very high.
The bots are pretty decent, from the couple of matches I played they seemed to use the map well enough.
The jail is a little weird and in my opinion too small, although I did like the "ramp" going down to allow the players to go out. The execution sequence is non-existing at the moment, the players simply die for no apparent reason.

Overall I'd say it's a decent effort for someone who's starting (I can tell you this is easily better than my pathetic attempts at mapping... :D), although it's a long way from the quality of the maps currently available for the mod. You still have quite a lot to learn, but practice makes perfect, right?

I'm sure other members of this forum, who actually know how to map (unlike me... :D), can give you some tips on how to improve on your further attempts at mapping for UT2004 and Jailbreak.

expisCoR
16th Mar 2005, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the input, Funktion.

As of now, I am still learning and the map may or may not have a 'final' version. The textures may change if I find time to work on them. As for the lower level of the map, I hope to do more with that space (suggestions?). As for the pit with spiders in it, if you manage to get in (and out) there is a redeemer waiting down there. Execution seems to work sometimes (I think I may have fixed it).

tarquin
17th Mar 2005, 06:54 AM
I agree with the post above -- you need more variety in the textures.
you also need more detail on the walls. but just going from the shots, it looks like an interesting layout that has potential. In the shot with the blue player at the front -- how could that player get up to what looks like walkways high up on either side? what's the pit in front?

It looks like a good start though -- keep at it! :D

CoolDude
17th Mar 2005, 08:38 AM
OK, I've been playing this, and yeah, it's a jailbreak map.

You did asked for honesty, you'll get it:
- the basics (layout) is not very good to start with. A couple of rooms connected.
- the rooms all look dull, squared and empty, straight walls, the same texture, no decoration. Try to bring in some theme.
- all lights don't have lightsources (lamps, fires, torches, windows, you name it).
- the boxes at the base are kinda useless, bot will go around them, a human player can double jump right over them.
- I miss a proper execution.
- I always prefer screenshots (material sequence is even better) and loading screen (http://mychaeel.no-ip.com/jailbreak/Loading_Screen) without bots, botnames and huds.
- I forgot to look if it has a Scoreboard Minimap (http://mychaeel.no-ip.com/jailbreak/JBPanorama).

Maybe Spoondog's Mapping For Jailbreak (http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Mapping_For_Jailbreak) can give you some ideas.
Don't let this criticism keep you away from trying again though. ;)

Silas Mercury
28th May 2005, 09:09 AM
Poor poor expisCoR...

lol

Anyways, I tried it right when you first uploaded it to the clan site. It played well enough, better than some (like JB-Templar-BETA-v1), worse than others. Seriously needs more details, textures, static meshes, anything really that brings some definition to the map so that it doesn't look so basic.

If you have any questions, I'm the closest thing Clan CoR has to a mapping expert so let me know, ok? (not to say that I'm an expert, just to say I'm the best in Clan CoR. Not sure if that is saying much or not really.)

expisCoR
28th May 2005, 08:41 PM
Wow, you reserrected the thread.

Silas Mercury
29th May 2005, 12:48 AM
Eh, it happens.

Seriously though, are you still working on Depository or what?

expisCoR
29th May 2005, 03:08 PM
Not really, I am not really that good with what remains ('decorations' and to fix the lighting). If you would like, I will email you my most recent version so you can play around with it.

Silas Mercury
30th May 2005, 02:07 AM
Not really, I am not really that good with what remains ('decorations' and to fix the lighting). If you would like, I will email you my most recent version so you can play around with it.

Would you be so kind?

expisCoR
30th May 2005, 02:17 AM
Would you be so kind?
PM me the email you want it sent to.

Silas Mercury
3rd Jun 2005, 08:06 AM
Ok, I have started working on JB-Depository now.

Seriously way too much free time. (working on four maps atm... ugh.)

Anyways...

Done so far:

Deleted and redesigned the ENTIRE bot pathing network. Seriously man, what the heck were you doing? There were path nodes EVERYWHERE, about every 7 - 8 feet in the map. I always wondered why the ran in odd directions sometimes, now I know. Coincidentally, despite the other things I added the map file size is 250 KB smaller now. Sheesh.

Changed many of the lights to give the map a slightly different feel. The lighting is much more dramatic now, and the lighting isn't bleaching the textures anywhere near as badly. I think it looks better, and I will post a screenie or 5 when I get that part (and others) closer to being done.

Added defense points (3 per team so far) so that the bots don't mill around like lost sheep when they are told to defend.

Going to do:
1. Finish the arena. I'm guessing the great big room with the HUGE hole in the middle is the intended arena anyways, right?
2. Finish the lighting
3. Retexture the entire map
4. Add static meshes (lights and such mainly)
5. Add more detail to everything. (as tarquin pointed out)

What I will not be doing: (unless expisCoR requests it)
1. Changing any of the main brush architecture
2. Changing the deemer room in any way (I like it that way, it's all freaky)
3. Changing the escape route (before today I never even knew the map had one.)

Let me know what you think.

expisCoR
3rd Jun 2005, 08:11 PM
Sounds good. I don't know if I ever sent you a version with with the escape route, hence why you didn't know about it.

I don't know how much I will have a chance to read this weekend, as I am currently sitting in headquarters of my scout camp.

Silas Mercury
4th Jun 2005, 07:50 AM
Yeah, I can't make it. I've tried like 8 times. Once I even used the "Booster" combo and I STILL couldn't make it.

expisCoR
4th Jun 2005, 08:01 AM
Can't make what? The escape? or the Deemer?

Silas Mercury
4th Jun 2005, 08:03 AM
Can't make what? The escape? or the Deemer?

Well, I can make it about halfway through the escape route before I'm blown to bits, as for the deemer... I can get the deemer, just not get back out of the room.

Is that big room the arena?

expisCoR
4th Jun 2005, 10:24 AM
Yes, the big room is supposed to be the arena. The escape is possible, look for the rocket launcher, but I may have added one or two more spiders since the last time i tried it in the very last run (to the green area).

Spudsy
4th Jun 2005, 06:04 PM
Yeah I recently picked up the map yesterday, and layout is pretty plain, but it forces the need to really be on your toes if you want to play d. The map is other than that, pretty plain.

Silas Mercury
5th Jun 2005, 05:23 AM
"Update"

I textured the entire map, not sure if I like the look to the upper level now so I will probably redo that part.

Added a bunch more crates in strategic locations to provide some amount of cover for attackers and defenders, also added a second layer of boxes in the switch rooms to prevent human players from just double jumping over them. There are still spots where you can do so but it isn't as easy to do as it was.

Still trying to fix the lighting, this part might take a while.

Started adding detail, so far I have changed the lift shafts so that they are more eye catching. (I think it looks really cool, but that may just be me)


Problems so far:
The bots tend to not walk all the way off of the jail door platform when it opens, so when it closes half of them are still in jail. I might change how the door functions slightly so that this doesn't happen anymore. I'm also open to suggestions for an easy way to fix this.

CoolDude
5th Jun 2005, 06:39 AM
The bots tend to not walk all the way off of the jail door platform when it opens, so when it closes half of them are still in jail. I might change how the door functions slightly so that this doesn't happen anymore. I'm also open to suggestions for an easy way to fix this.Put something down there to go for (weapons, ammo, healthvials)?

//edit: The door actor (and paths) are ok btw?

expisCoR
5th Jun 2005, 09:51 AM
The jail doors and bots have always been a problem.

Silas Mercury
6th Jun 2005, 12:38 AM
I've been busy, especially considering that I had today off.

Although it isn't shown in the screenshots, I have made the release switch rooms a bit larger and made a platform that you decend to and from the lifts with. I found that the bots could, every single time without fail, free their team regardless of how many defenders were guarding the switch if they came up from the lifts.

Let me know what you think.

Silas Mercury
6th Jun 2005, 12:46 AM
Oh yeah, I fixed the jail doors, but for some reason the opposing teams bots still think that they can go in there.

(sigh)

CoolDude
6th Jun 2005, 02:06 AM
So you didn't fix the jaildoors (http://mychaeel.no-ip.com/jailbreak/Jail_and_Release) (yet). :P
Did you set the bBlockedWhenClosed to True?
Do all paths through the jaildoors go via the dooractor?

Silas Mercury
6th Jun 2005, 05:17 AM
Oh dear...

My pc just suffered an aneurism. Time to reinstall, oh, everything...

:(

expisCoR
6th Jun 2005, 10:17 AM
One thing that I always found about this map (before I handed it over), was the ease of the lift jump on to the lock. I'm not sure how much you did about it, but it may just add a new angle to have to defend from (having people downstairs). Just a thought.

Silas Mercury
7th Jun 2005, 07:42 AM
Trust me, it's still VERY possible to get to the lock, it just takes about 2 seconds longer, most of which the player/bot is partially concealed behind a fence.

The main reason I changed it was for people who don't spend all of their time playing with the same team members. True, a coordinated group could easily defend the lower level, but look at it this way...

The average team is around 5 to 6 people when there is a decent number of people playing. At any given moment about 1/3 (2) of the players on a single team are in jail. This leaves 4 people to defend with. At least one of those people will probably be trying to free their team. That leaves a maximum average of three defenders. That's all fine and dandy, except for one thing. There are four paths to the release switch. (2 doors leading into the lock room, and the two lifts) All I did was make it so that unless the player lift jumps over the fence they have to take a central staircase to the lock, essentially making it so that the bots only have three ways to attack the switch. As I stated previously, it's easy to lift jump over the fence. That means that the average player is unaffected by the change unless they want to take the lift down.

I playtested this many times, and it doesn't make a huge difference. The bots still get to the lock quickly, this just gives you time to lob one more shell at them in the process.

expisCoR
7th Jun 2005, 10:32 AM
Sounds good.

Silas Mercury
8th Jun 2005, 01:08 PM
It has been said that "Nothing is EVER easy..."

I need you (expisCoR) to email me ALL of the files in your ut2004 folder titled "HoursAdara"... (or whatever that is supposed to be.)

Next time, PLEASE please please oh please embed the static meshes into your map.

I apologize, I didn't realize you were using stock files since they were suspiciously mismatched on my system.

I went to work on Depository and noticed that the lighting and shadows looked strange. Mainly because all of the crates that blocked the lights (casting the shadows) had mysteriously vanished!

I swear I was like this... :eek:

Then I screamed at my pc... a lot. I would have kicked it across the room if I could afford another one. (I need to work on my temper :lol: )

expisCoR
8th Jun 2005, 01:42 PM
Sent

Silas Mercury
9th Jun 2005, 08:09 AM
Sent

My thanks. Where did those "HoursAdara" files come from anyways?

EDIT:

:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:

HoursAdara is STOCK?!?!?! What the hell---o (my baby, hell---o my darling... etc.) happened to my files then? CRAP. Oh well. Replacing mine with yours worked on every version of the map that wasn't important. The most recent version however, well let's just say that all references to any "HoursAdara" files were set to "NULL" when I saved. (didn't notice that the meshes had dissappeared before I saved, only afterwards. Fudge.)

Let's see, that only sets me back about a day. Not too bad I suppose, I've screwed up worse.

Silas Mercury
9th Jun 2005, 08:16 AM
So you didn't fix the jaildoors (http://mychaeel.no-ip.com/jailbreak/Jail_and_Release) (yet). :P
Did you set the bBlockedWhenClosed to True?
Do all paths through the jaildoors go via the dooractor?

Totally fixed? I guess not.
bBlockedWhenClosed=True
All paths go through the door actor.

The problem is this. When the door is opened, it opens directly into a spot where several pathnodes cross. This leads to the occasional bot being in the wrong area at the wrong time. I am going to try to fix this but it's not on my list of priorities just yet.

Spudsy
5th Jul 2005, 12:55 PM
Come one people, let's get back in the groove of things. I liked the layout for this map and I would like to see it finished. Let's get back in 4th gear here.